Does chamois butter really help?

[Aint Doody]

Hey, y'all! I'm going to do my first STP (Seattle to Portland) this year at age 56. I'm trying to get in as much saddle time as possible. My legs are in good shape, but I'm worried that after over 100 miles on the saddle that the next day my bootie will refuse to get on again. Any suggestions???

[annie]

Howdy, Aint! Congrats on getting to ride STP! That is one ride I have always wanted to do. But I'm a bit far away. Maybe someday..........

Yes, I think Chamois butter really helps, if you are having chafing issues. I use Assos Chamois Creme, if I need it, but I suspect any of the products marketed as chamois creme are similar and are going to help your uh, delicate bootie tissues slide and not rub on your shorts and saddle. A cheaper option is Bag Balm. Sold for cow's udders, it is slightly antiseptic, nice and thick, and doesn't even smell TOO bad. You can pick it up at almost any drug store. Lots of ultra distance riders swear by it. Just one hint - if you use it, don't smear on so much that is oozes through your shorts and onto your saddle. Makes it a little too slippery that way! :eek: (I've seen it - not a pretty sight!) Whatever you use, smear it in all the creases, and anywhere else you feel you need a little more comfort. For 100 miles, I'd put whatever you decide to use in a small container that you can carry with you and re-apply as needed.

Have fun!!

annie

[CorsairMac]

I'm the opposite voice here: I bike commute to work plus do lunchtime rides for a total of about 125 miles a week. I just started doing centuries on the weekend with 20-50 mile recovery rides the next day and I don't use any chamois creme at all. My only issue to date has been my sit bones are a tad sore the next day when I first start out, but once I get going, everything gets warmed up and remembers what it's supposed to do, including them bones!
Are you having issues now? If no, then you may not need any creme.

[Aint Doody]

Thanks, Annie & Corsair! Knowing about being post menopausal and all that stuff, I wonder if maybe we older women having thinner tissues in that area might be more susceptible. I haven't had any actual chafing--just feel tender at the end of a 60-80 mile ride. Maybe I should get some sort cream that will sorta numb the area?? What do y'all think? Has anybody tried anything like that. By the way, Annie, I have this visual of using too much Bag Balm! Thanks for any info/input.......

[newrider]

Chamois Butt'r is my friend! I got great advice recently to try Chamois Butt'r (or any equivalent) in a different thread on this forum for chafing/itching issues with my thinning tissues in said zone. And I'm just beginning to ride 10-15 mile rides so far. I thought I was doomed. Not so! Completely chafe and itch free now.

Chamois Butt'r is nice because it's completely odorless, and completely non-greasy (seems even less greasy than hand lotions). It's the only product I've tried so far, though.

[CorsairMac]

ahem - *clears throat*, I'm 46 and perimenwhatever right now......it may be some people just naturally have thinner tissue than others, it may be the shorts or the saddle or the bike fit. Or it could just be coz I'm the badazz all my friends keep telling me I am! (NOT ;) )

[RoadRaven]

Thanks, Annie & Corsair! Knowing about being post menopausal and all that stuff, I wonder if maybe we older women having thinner tissues in that area might be more susceptible. I haven't had any actual chafing--just feel tender at the end of a 60-80 mile ride. Maybe I should get some sort cream that will sorta numb the area?? What do y'all think? Has anybody tried anything like that. By the way, Annie, I have this visual of using too much Bag Balm! Thanks for any info/input.......

Since there has been a lot of discussion around this the last couple of weeks I decided to googlesurf this morning...
Didn't find alot that I thought exactly exaplined things for us... and some of the sites are linked to products, so I am always wary of those.
This is what I found in ten minutes... I'll try and do some better research after I have finished my essay (due next week :eek: )

Apparently diminishing estrogen does have an effect on the integrity of our skin after menopause, and hormone replacement therapy can thicken the skin rather than return its integrity. It looks like a lot of sites recommend a Vitamin E cream to assist with keeping the skin on/around your girly bits soft, supple and less prone to thinning effects




http://www.womanlab.com/english/professionals/menopausalIssues8.htm

This site is kind’ve medical jargon, but there is an interesting bit on skin integrity, collagen and hormones – though not specifically to the genital area


http://hcd2.bupa.co.uk/fact_sheets/html/menopause.html

Mentions skin and hair dryness as a symptom, but not any useful solutions other than HRT (Raven is not a fan of the idea of HRT)


http://www.bodyandfitness.com/Information/Womenhealth/managing.htm

QUOTED FROM THE SITE:
Harness help from your honey. The nicest advice may be this: When you have sex on a regular basis, you naturally make more lubrication, says Mary Beard, M.D., an assistant clinical professor in the Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology at the University of Utah Latter Day Saints Hospital in Salt Lake City. Continuing sexual activity is an important help in holding back the thinning and drying effects of menopause on vaginal tissues, she says.


http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/symptoms.html

This site recommends using a localised estrogen cream for the area, though whether that is internal, external or both I am unclear

[julbee]

Hi!

RoadRaven, nice job on the articles! :)

There's the "chafing" and "sores" some experience.

Some people also have "tenderness" with or without the actual "skin" chafing and/or skin lesions. The "tenderness" can be specifically" located to your "girlies," or not.

There are many ligaments, muscle "insertions," etc. in the general area. Some of the tenderness might be of this type of origin.

For tendons, ligaments, muscle soreness in these and in other areas, docs are often prescribing NSAID topical creams. (DO NOT use these internally!)
These generally have a prescription strength of an NSAID in them, along with an anesthetic (numbing). This type of a cream needs to be mixed by a "compounding pharmacist." Personally, I use ketoprofen 10% with Bupivacaine 1% in a PLO gel base. This stuff is wonderful! (I cannot take NSAIDS due to a prior history of a GI bleed with these types of drugs. I can, however, use this topical. It is very powerful and does not get into my bloodstream if I adhere to the directions when applying!)

It's a safer way to use NSAID medications. It allows, too, for "targeting" the actual area(s) of inflammation, without "flooding" your entire body with NSAIDS (and their side-effects).

I was very skeptical about the efficacy of using NSAIDS in this manner. I am highly impressed with the effectiveness!

For those who may have chronic muscular spasm and need to use muscle relaxants, these muscle relaxant meds can also be put into a similar cream, which allows for targeting the spastic area, without so many intense side-effects. This might help those who experience chronic neck, shoulder, trapezius spasms while riding, without the sometimes very sedating side-effects of oral medication.

Clearly identify, if you have not, the exact areas and/or originations of the discomfort. If some of it could be muscular, tendons, ligaments, etc., you may want to try one of these topical medications.

Have a great day!
Have a great ride! ;)

[JanT]

For the menopausal folks: I tried the estrogen cream--applied internally. My doctor said it was even safe for someone like me who can't do ERT. It didn't help me much, but it's worth a shot if you're having those hormonal issues. Along those same lines, I tried using that K-jelly stuff that's used for those kinds of purposes. It kept things from rubbing the wrong way, but it was pretty slimy-gooky feeling. I haven't used anything for a long time now. I just make sure I move around alot on the saddle, and get off it as much as I can, too, on longer rides.

[julbee]

Hi!

For those whose difficulties are clearly menopausal ( or the wonderful "perimenopausal"), there are preparations one can use evey few days. The purpose of these products is to assist with moisture (which will likely help to maintain tissue integrity). These products are used every few days, not every day. One such product is "Replens." It is not a hormonal treament. (These products are ususally sold in the "feminine hygiene" isle of the store!)

Best of luck!
Have a great Ride!

[Aint Doody]

Wow! Y'all are great with info. I've made a list and will give some of this stuff a try. I'll come back with a "field report!" Thanks soooo much.

[Aint Doody]

A quick update--I wrote down the formula that julbee swears by and went to Rite Aid. They don't have a combining pharmacist there but gave me the name of one in the next town. Anyway, the pharm. at Rite Aid who is a friend of mine said that the combo of ketoprofen 10% and bupivacaine 1% in a PLO gel base (whatever the heck all that means!) would minimize inflamation and sorta numb the area. I also got some of that stuff that is internal containing Vit E and aloe. I'll let y'all know more as time goes on. At least I have a plan!! :D

[Aint Doody]

Oh, yeah--I almost forgot--I also ordered Chamois Butt'r from Team Estrogen, too!

[julbee]

Hey there!

Aint doody, I hope your pharmacist friend had let you know if you need a prescription for the "componded" NSAID cream. I live in a state that requires a prescription for this. I've found some docs just don't know the formulation and/or don't realize that topical NSAIDs are available and effective!

There can be a big difference in the price between compounding pharmacists.
You may want to check a couple of them out!

This "stuff" is also excellent on all joint areas, I find.
It is a tremendous help with bursitis, etc.

Good Luck!
Do let us know how it all works out for you!

Julie

[Technotart]

<tucking these formulations away in my notebook so I can look em up and use em on perimenopausal patients who complain about saddle pain on the bike>

Thanks for the info!

[Aint Doody]

I did have to have a prescription for the gel. At first my doc was a little reluctant--wanted to give me pills. I finally won him over. And the good news is that my insurance paid and I only had to pay a co-pay. I'm going on a 60 miler tomorrow (if the weather co-operates) and I'll let y'all know what I think. I have a good friend who rides even more than I who's planning to call for her own prescrip. (By the way, the compounding pharm. recommended increasing the percentages to 20 & 2--said it certainly couldn't hurt). The pharm. also said he thought one application would last 5 to 6 hrs!

[spazzdog]

Hi Aint Doody... I'm 49 (for a few months anyway) and almost done with the whole journey into menopause. I've not taken anything hormaonal; I guess I'm lucky.

As to the grrly-bits issue with riding... I was miserable back in 2000 training for an AidsRide. No matter what I did, how I sat I literally had friction burn on my clitoris and major chafing of my labia. I was a very unhappy grrl.

I bought a Koobi saddle (www.koobi.com) at the recommendation of somebody at the Boston-P'town ride. I figured for $69 bucks, it was worth a try.

I have never had another issue with my grrly parts. I don't use chamois butter... just me, the shorts, the saddle. The cut-out goes all the way thru the nose... thus where there is air, there is no irritation.

my 2 cents - spazz

[julbee]

Hey Spazzdog! Thanks for the link! I have heard good things about this saddle! Of course, the goal should always be to use as little of any type of "treatment" as possible. If a saddle change does the trick.... wonderful! :D

Aint Doody! Hi! I'll be interested to learn as to how this formulation has worked for you! Did you increase the percentages or did you stay with 10% and 1%? I'm sure the 20% and the 2% are quite potent!

The whole idea for using the compounded gel is to minimize absorption into your bloodstream, while still getting the anti-inflammatory benefit. You see, NSAIDs (non-steroidal ant-inflammatory drugs) have a proclivity for your GI lining cells. This doesn't change with the route of administration! It happens if you swallow the NSAID pill, you get the NSAID by IM or IV routes. The stuff makes a dash straight for GI lining cells. This can be a problem... or even dangerous for some people. That is the attraction to the gel. If used sparingly, as directed, there will be zero to very minimal blood concentration.

With that in mind, it's best to use the lowest concentration of a topical NSAID as possible. If you NEED a higher percentage... great. If the lower percentage works well... don't increase it! BTW.. I hope you were sufficiently warned to not get this gel into your eyes.. at all?

And yes.. if you are needing the gel... don't forget to repeat the application(s) at the prescribed intervals.

I have been warned that if you use this cream anywhere on your neck area, one might feel very sedated. Please keep that in mind! (That did prove to be true for me!) You want benefits with minmal side-effects! (Which includes minimal health risks.)

For anyone using an oral anti-inflammatory medication, please be sure you are well educated in the potential/possible side-effects. Seriously.
Minimize the risks for yourself by becoming educated on this issue! You won't regret it!

Happy Riding! ;)

[Aint Doody]

Don't y'all love this website?! I'm getting soooo much good info. I did use the gel--actually it is more of a cream. It actually felt a little stingy on those more delicate parts so I wasn't sure it would do me any good. And possibly I was thinking about it too much. Or as julbee warned maybe the concentrations were too high. I rode 55 hard miles--plenty of climbs. I reapplied after my shower. When I got up the next day, I could have gotten on and ridden more without a twinge. (I couldn't because I was in a pretty stupid golf tournament.) Should I consider diluting the concentration somehow? The big test will be this week-end when I do Cycle OR Week-end--135 miles in 2 days. I'll keep everybody posted. I like spazzdog's idea of the saddle, but since my Pilot 5.0 is new, I just can't see investing in a new saddle just yet.....See you in Spandex!!!

[emily_in_nc]

I like spazzdog's idea of the saddle, but since my Pilot 5.0 is new, I just can't see investing in a new saddle just yet.....See you in Spandex!!!

Hi AD ~ I'll let you in on a little secret! :D One of the first things most cyclist do when they buy a stock bike is buy a new, comfy saddle for it! So, don't worry, you don't have to avoid doing that just because it is a new bike. Off-the-shelf bikes are notorious for having crappy saddles!

I test rode a Trek 5200 WSD (high-end carbon fiber bike) the summer before last. At the time I'd ridden several full centuries and more metrics on my Terry with a Terry Butterfly saddle. Five minutes into my test ride of the Trek, my girly bits were screaming! If I'd bought that bike (I didn't - I later built up an Aegis Swift from the frame), I would have changed that stock saddle out in 1 second flat! So don't feel bad about swapping it out and early to save your hiney - you will only be about the billionth new-bike owner to have done exactly that! :D

Good luck,
Emily

[Aint Doody]

Emily--I'm sure you're right. I could spend a small fortune with potions and lotions! And my bootie comfort is certainly important. I've heard a lot about the Terry saddles. OK--let's start with the saddles. What should I look for? My LBS doesn't stock much--small town of 15,000.

[bikerz]

I just replaced the saddle that was on my bike when I bought it last year with a Terry Butterfly saddle - two rides over the weekend, and no pain! It's great - I wish I had started out with it.

http://www.rei.com/product/5977388.htm?vcat=REI_SSHP_CYCLING_TOC

From what people have said on this forum, being able to try out a saddle, and return it if it doesn't work is important, and I guess not all places will do that. So I decided to buy it at REI since you can return anything there, anytime. Good luck!

[slinkedog]

I actually have a Terry Butterfly Tri Gel that I'm looking to get rid of. My girly bits were exceedingly unhappy with that one, but I know many, many people who swear by the Butterflies. If anyone is interested, let me know and we'll work out a deal. It only has about 200 miles on it.

[emily_in_nc]

Emily--I'm sure you're right. I could spend a small fortune with potions and lotions! And my bootie comfort is certainly important. I've heard a lot about the Terry saddles. OK--let's start with the saddles. What should I look for? My LBS doesn't stock much--small town of 15,000.

I have the Terry Butterfly with leather cover and ti rails (a bit pricy unless you can find it on sale) on three of my bikes. I love this saddle. It's the third one down on this page:
http://www.terrybicycles.com/product.html?c=Saddles&sc=Women%27s+Best+All-Around

Terry allows you to ride their saddles for 30 days and return them if unhappy.

If you like blue, you can get a leather Butterfly with chromoly rails (slightly heavier than ti) for a great price right here on Team E:
http://www.teamestrogen.com/products.asp?pID=11429

I recently installed this very modestly priced saddle on my mountain bike and find it to be very comfy as well. I can't really compare it with the Butterfly since I have only used it for riding on the trainer (I am recovering from a broken pelvis), but the price sure is right:

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/profile.cfm?SKU=18265&subcategory_ID=5211

Performance also often has Butterfly saddles on sale.

Good luck with your choice!
Emily

[CorsairMac]

I rode on 1 Terry saddle - the Sportco and could NOT wait to get it off the bike. All my bikes have either the Specialized Road Sport or Mountain Sport (depends on the bike) for women on them and I LOVE them. I've logged thousands of miles on them without any problems and I don't use any chamois cremes.

So....are ya confused yet AD? LOLOL ;)

Where's Spazz??......now all we need is a Koobi plug! :D

[Aint Doody]

Well, y'all, I am sorta confused! I went on Cycle OR Week-end ride 60 miles 1st day and 77 the next. I had decided that the Bootie Creme wasn't quite right on the most intimate of tissue. (It sorta stung.) So I used it afterwards on the less delicate parts - from where my legs join towards the center. I think it helped. However, by about mile 72 on the 2nd day I was on fire. I applied the creme after I got off, and it did indeed help. I also had used some of the internal stuff twice a week. It's not hormonal--just vitamin E and aloe. As for a new saddle--I'm really interested in the Butterfly. Thanks for all the input!

[Aint Doody]

One aside--I met one of the wonderful ladies who works at Team Estrogen on Cycle OR Wk-end. She was riding with another nice lady I got in an argument with over which one of us was TE's best customer! We both thought we were! It was a friendly argument. We both looked pretty cute(?) in our purchases from TE.

[jpbayarea]

from another post Meno woman.....my Gyno prescribed some estrogen cream, topically applied to address the thinning tissues which she says "everyone" has during and especially after Menopause. I often forget to use it but it does help and the tissues are much heartier now. I do find riding day after day without rest days does create soreness, though not rawness. I also use chamois butter and it helps a lot as well as very high quality shorts and changing positions often during a ride. PS. The estrogen cream does not get absorbed into the body but just the external tissues so should be perfectly safe for those of us who worry about taking estrogen.

[jpbayarea]

There is a homeopathic ointment CALENDULA, can be found at any natural food store and is wonderful when applied to any rash/skin irritation. I use it at night after a ride and by morning the 'girls' are in fine shape. And, as they say, regular sexual activity does promote thicker tissues too....so have some fun and try the Calendula. I sometimes put it in the fridge for an extra boost of cooling comfort on hot summer days. Good luck!

[Aint Doody]

Well, y'all, here's an update on the "booty situation." I have a friend who lent me her Terry saddle just before I did a 6-day San Juan Islands trip with Bicycle Adventures. We did a lot of hard riding, and I never even had to think about the potions and lotions. I'm sold on Terry saddles now. A good saddle is definitely the most important thing if your bottom hurts.

[wabisabi]

On the post-menopause thread--I had early (40) menopause, and am 55 now, and was concerned about things, ah, drying out. My gyno prescribed Estring, which is a small ring with a very small amount of estrogen that goes in like a diaphram. It definitely replenished the parts and they are, as the gyno says, "much happier."