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MartianDestiny
02-15-2009, 12:37 PM
Hi all. I've been lurking here for a month or so and two royally sucktastic club rides have prompted me to get an account so hopefully you ladies can help me out.

I've just gotten up the nerves/been coersed by my wonderful and well meaning bike shop to join a club group that rides every sunday. I'm having a blast except...

They drop me like I'm standing still on even mild to moderate hills and I'm getting frustrated (even though they are awesome about it and 1 or 2 people drop back with me, etc).

I feel like it's my lungs rather than my legs (though the legs could use work too). I start up even a slight incline and I'm huffing and puffing and getting blown by in the process. If I drop gears and spin such that my lungs are ok then they drop me anyway since I loose so much speed.

Some pertinent info:
-I'm 23 and have been biking 4-5 years.
-This is my first foray into road biking for something other than my commute
-I tend to "hammer" rather than "spin"; I'm trying to work on that with the road bike
-I consider myself in decent shape, at least until I get with a group of others and they prove otherwise!
-I just moved to CO from sea level in August so altitude may have something to do with it, but to be honest I had this problem before as well
-I'm riding a 08 Giant OCR3 that fits well (Wilier Izoard coming after taxes, but for now the Giant has to do)
-To the best of my knowledge I'm healthy (but I'm beginning to wonder...)
- Previous riding style has been long rides, but at my pace which never stressed my lungs much.
-I ride once a week (this group ride) sometimes twice, try to commute at least once a week (it's winter and snowing), and take Karate twice a week. I'd like to increase riding time, but it's going to be a couple months (winter, daylight savings time, etc.) before that happens realistically.

What are some good ways to improve my lung/heart endurance/health?? On the bike and off. Ideas for off the bike activities that can help me build up a better base during the week would be awesome given the riding situation for the near future. (I have access to a full gym, free, but the stationary bikes are likely out of the question due to volume of use. I'm not opposed to running in the cold either if it's the best way to see results.)

Thanks!

silver
02-15-2009, 12:59 PM
hmm.... lots of thoughts here.


Intervals on any type of cardio machine.

This is the way that I instruct intervals in my spin classes.

The basic idea is warm up 5 to 10 minutes, 8 reps of 30 seconds hard, 90 seconds recovery, 5 to 10 minutes recovery.

During the hard intervals, you should push your pace/tension/ intensity to the point where you are out of breath, can't talk, don't think that you can go on any longer. Then recover. You can do this on any cardio format, running, elliptical, etc. Outdoors on the bike you can do hill repeats to simulate the same thing.

As this has become easier, we have shortened the recovery times, increased the number of sets, increased the length of the hard intervals.

An example of a recent class is as follows:

30 sec hard, 60 easy
2 times (30 hard, 45 easy)
3 times (30 hard, 30 easy)
Standing:
3 times (30 hard, 30 easy)
sittting:
6 times (20 hard, 10 easy)
60 addtional recovery
45 hard 60 easy
90 hard 60 easy
3 minutes hard, done

tulip
02-15-2009, 01:20 PM
What Silver said.

How long is your commute? I found my commute (when I commuted, it was 14 miles each way) to be okay, but not great, for club rides. It did not have the intensity of a club ride. If your commute is short, you may find that increasing it and adding days and intensity will help. If you are only riding one or two times a week, that is likely not enough.

It wasn't until I started taking spinning classes that I really improved on club rides. 2x week (intense, with heart rate monitor to gauge effort) really helped, more would have been better but twice a week was all I could manage.

Now I don't commute anymore but I still take spin classes. My early club rides have been slower than I like, but it's early and I just go at my own pace.

Your club rides might just be too fast for you at this point. If your club offers different paced rides, you might want to consider stepping down to a more realistic pace, get stronger there without getting so discouraged, and then step up later in the season. I've found that macho-guy (and sometimes girl) club rides are real hammerfests and don't do me any good.

ny biker
02-15-2009, 02:19 PM
Just to rule out medical issues - I assume the problem is normal getting out of breath, not anything more serious.

If you're wheezing, or you feel like your lungs just won't open up enough for you to get good deep breaths, that would be asthma. The main asthma trigger for me is riding my bike up big hills.

p.s. "Sucktastic" is my new favorite word.

MartianDestiny
02-15-2009, 03:13 PM
Thanks all.

Embarrassingly these are "for fun", "easy pace", no drop rides. I think last week's average speed was a whooping 15mph in the "fast" group :o Hopefully as the season progresses there will be more riders along (there were only 8 this week and I was the only out of shape one!) at which point they will break into more groups. For now apparently I'm the only "snail" who is "hard core" enough to ride at 33*F :eek: so I feel bad when they ride at my pace for me.

Basically, I think it should be a good group for me after some frustration and it's a great group now because although I feel bad and frustrated they are super cool and encouraging. It helps that they wanted me to do this and I warned them, so they seem committed to getting me "up to speed" (or is that the dollar signs as I continue to buy gear from them? :p)

My commute is a joke. 4.5 miles, one baby hill, and one pretty steep climb at the end (that I only have to do on the way in). The hill and my 15lb pack (MacBooks are heavy boogers!) are the only reasons it's challenging. I view it more as "keep the legs moving" and a mental break than any sort of productive training. Maybe I'll start doing lunchtime intervals on said hill?!

I will definitely start the intervals Silver suggested somehow, on a bike if at all possible. How often is considered effective without being overboard? In theory I can cut the time out to do something like this every day with a break day Sat and the rides on Sundays; is that smart or overkill?

I know I need to get on a bike more often. I'm hoping to make it daily or near daily as the weather warms and I get daylight. For now it's either snowing or blowing 40mph crosswinds and I don't have a trainer so I'll have to make due with alternates :(

And no, no wheezing, thank goodness. I do have lung issues as a possibility stuck in the back of my mind after 20 years of second hand smoke. For now though I'll go with the being out of shape theory (it's much much easier and less scary to fix!)

Thanks again for the tips. I'm hoping to be more in shape before I loose the excuse of a semi-heavy bike in a few months! :D

silver
02-15-2009, 04:28 PM
You could do some research to determine what is the best frequency.

However...I'm not a real trainer, I only play one on TV. :p

But I'd suggest 3 times a week. This type of workout is focused on raising your anaearobic threshold. Your overall exercise routine should also include some longer distance slower activities and some mid intensity medium length exercise.

Miranda
02-15-2009, 04:35 PM
Hey, that's close to my bike. I have an OCR1. I've been geeking out something new. My girl doesn't fit me so great is part of my deal. Oh well, live and learn.

Good for you on doing the club rides:). Here's my humble thoughts on the matter...

1) Silver is right. We do these in spin class and it truly helps. Also, just building your over all low end aerobic base helps. Thus, it makes it even more work (& increased fitness level) to reach that breathless place.

2) does anyone in your area know of spin classes if your gym does not have them? Some gyms will let you just pay for the class without joining.

3) does anyone in the group, or shop, have a spare trainer or set of rollers (much harder to do, I dunno how atm), for you to borrow? Or rent for a small fee? That would give you some time to work on just your fitness. Outside there is so many things to think about vs being stationary.

4) OK, this is "Mother Miranda" speaking now... please, please, purty please... go to a doctor about the lung thing.

I have asthma, and also had years of growing up in a chain smoking house (just sad). You DO NOT need to have the classic wheeze to have asthma!!!

DD's stupid peds doc missed the freakin boat when I kept telling him that I did not wheeze, DH did not, etc. and HEY!!! based on fm hx, my kid has asthma! Well, until she got into PICU almost on a vent and nearly died.

We are *coughers*. It is less common--read hard to dx. I find my inflamation feels like clearing my throat. Like a sinus issue. It's not. It's the asthma inflamation.

ALSO... if you do have some lung damage (not asthma), there are meds the doc can give you to improve that as well depending what it is.

I have a boat load of meds... yea it sucks, but guess what? I CAN BREATH. I do not let my asthma define who I am, or my riding (as it should no one).

Lastly from this moma lecture is that if it is... the exercise will actual improve your base. I take an inhailer before, and it helps me to be ok in the situation you are describing.

OK... I think I'm done now:rolleyes::o;).

tulip
02-15-2009, 05:05 PM
I agree with the asthma/lung thing, especially if you lived in a smoking household for nearly your whole life!! Don't get me started on that one!

I used to have asthma. I don't know if it was exercise-induced or allergy-induced only (I know allergies were part of it), but I've had a few bad attacks off the bike and just plain discomfort on the bike. In fact, when I was racing (I sucked) when I was your age, I ALWAYS felt like I was out of shape, I always got dropped. It wasn't until years later that I was diagnosed with asthma and got an inhaler. All of a sudden I was able to breathe on those hills! So get that checked out ASAP. If you have carpets where you live, either remove them or move to a place with wood or tile floors as soon as you are able. Removing carpet from my environment pretty much cleared up my asthma.

Don't discount your commute--it's GREAT to live close enough for a bike commute! Use your commute just as you do--for transportation, relaxation, and building a solid base. The more you are on your bike, the better you will be, and the better the world will be!

ASammy1
02-16-2009, 04:51 AM
We are *coughers*. It is less common--read hard to dx. I find my inflamation feels like clearing my throat. Like a sinus issue. It's not. It's the asthma inflamation.


I too was a "cougher" and not a "wheezer" it took 3 specialists to figure out I had asthma when I was a kid...

Go see a Dr, MartianDestiny.

MartianDestiny
02-16-2009, 09:21 AM
Thanks again all.

I got up and ran using the interval concept this morning. Definitely gives the lungs a work out. I also talked to the shop/ride guys this morning and they don't seem at all surprised or concerned that I'm getting dropped at this early juncture. Basically the comment was "this is Boulder and everyone is a professional athlete" *sigh*. They promise me that there will be slower riders as the weather warms up; apparently they suspect I'll be able to keep up with the mechanic's pregnant wife who will be joining us soon (I'm not sure if I should consider that a good thing or a very very bad thing :o:(:confused:).

On a happy note my new bike is built and hanging, begging to be ridden, in the shop. Darn it's perdy! NEED TAX RETURN NOW!!!

Anyway, I'm going to give intervals and increased riding a few weeks to work their magic and if I'm not improving I promise I'll go see a doctor (for the first time in ~10 years might I add!! :eek:)

tulip
02-16-2009, 11:45 AM
Time for a checkup regardless--for your lungs and all your other parts. You don't want to wait til it breaks.

I dunno, it warms up and they say they'll slow down?? Usually when it warms up they go even faster in my experience. But you'll get faster. Just get those lungs checked out.

uforgot
02-16-2009, 11:57 AM
Has anyone else had the lung thing? After reading this post, I'm gonna get mine checked out too. My legs are fine, everything is fine, but for my entire life it's the lungs that get me first. When I think about it, I couldn't even run as far as my friends could when I was a kid, and I was spending night after night at the dance studio! Dances are short, runs are long, but both my parents smoked. I don't, never have. I'm a horrible hill climber and even Pyannyplayer has given me some tips, but I'm still out of air. Legs are fine.

Anyway, if you get a checkup let me know the results!

BleeckerSt_Girl
02-16-2009, 12:27 PM
Has anyone else had the lung thing? After reading this post, I'm gonna get mine checked out too. My legs are fine, everything is fine, but for my entire life it's the lungs that get me first. When I think about it, I couldn't even run as far as my friends could when I was a kid, and I was spending night after night at the dance studio! Dances are short, runs are long, but both my parents smoked. I don't, never have. I'm a horrible hill climber and even Pyannyplayer has given me some tips, but I'm still out of air. Legs are fine.


Yep, I have the same problem. It's my respiratory limitations that get me on the hills. But 2 1/2 years of biking and walking have helped noticeably. I did used to smoke a lot years ago, plus had very severe pneumonia as a child, so all of that has taken it's toll. Sometimes I simply cannot breathe hard enough or deeply enough to get the oxygen I need on a big hill.

MartianDestiny
02-16-2009, 12:33 PM
Time for a checkup regardless--for your lungs and all your other parts. You don't want to wait til it breaks.

I dunno, it warms up and they say they'll slow down?? Usually when it warms up they go even faster in my experience. But you'll get faster. Just get those lungs checked out.

O, I suspect the fast ones will go faster! But the slower ones will actually start showing up as well and we'll split into groups. I'm just the only slow one bull headed and pain loving enough to be coming in freezing weather so they say. We'll see; either way I've gotta get faster, fast!

redrhodie
02-16-2009, 02:27 PM
They promise me that there will be slower riders as the weather warms up; apparently they suspect I'll be able to keep up with the mechanic's pregnant wife who will be joining us soon (I'm not sure if I should consider that a good thing or a very very bad thing :o:(:confused:).

:D :D :D

You're going to be surprised come Spring. A bunch of people will suddenly come out of hibernation, and you'll be passing them (at first). Unfortunately, the guys tend to whip right back into shape after getting passed by a chick, but those first couple of nice day rides are fantastic for the ego.

I've gotten much better on hills over the last year. I read the phrase "ride like a slacker" in some article, and that phrase became my mantra on hills. My goal wasn't to climb fast, but to climb without getting out of breath, and without working up a sweat. I slowed both my cadence and breathing down. I found it really helpful to exhale ALL of the breath. It's so counter-intuitive to exhale when you want to gasp in air, but somehow it seems to help.

Another part of my slacker technique is to relax my hands and face, and slightly smile. I look just a little ahead of my wheel, not all the way up to the top. If I start to huff and puff, I ease up even more.

I don't keep track of how fast I ride, so I can't say for sure if this has helped make me faster, but I know I feel better on hills than I used to.

latelatebloomer
02-16-2009, 03:15 PM
Hey, MD - just wanted to give you the heads up that your hill climb issues may not show up in standard indoor asthma testing. Even though my fitness is quite high when spinning indoors - and the tech said I set a new high on the pulmonary test machine at the clinic - I have never been able to get enough air on even smallish hills. My old doc wasn't very active herself- or very sympathetic. Experienced cyclists who ride with me always said "asthma?" when they heard me wheeze and cough on hills. Old doc said it wasn't exercise-induced asthma if I could train so hard indoors. New doc (a runner) said, "oh you have exercise-induced asthma, use the inhaler all the time, no worries." For me, it's a combo of the hill climbs and sucking in those outdoor allergens.
Most importantly, ride to enjoy, keep at it, and you will improve. You can learn to relax and recover a little even while climbing- I'm working on that, and it's helping a lot. A heart-rate monitor can help you with that.
Good luck! Lynda Gene

MartianDestiny
02-16-2009, 05:00 PM
Hey, MD - just wanted to give you the heads up that your hill climb issues may not show up in standard indoor asthma testing. Even though my fitness is quite high when spinning indoors - and the tech said I set a new high on the pulmonary test machine at the clinic - I have never been able to get enough air on even smallish hills. My old doc wasn't very active herself- or very sympathetic. Experienced cyclists who ride with me always said "asthma?" when they heard me wheeze and cough on hills. Old doc said it wasn't exercise-induced asthma if I could train so hard indoors. New doc (a runner) said, "oh you have exercise-induced asthma, use the inhaler all the time, no worries." For me, it's a combo of the hill climbs and sucking in those outdoor allergens.
Most importantly, ride to enjoy, keep at it, and you will improve. You can learn to relax and recover a little even while climbing- I'm working on that, and it's helping a lot. A heart-rate monitor can help you with that.
Good luck! Lynda Gene

Good to note.

With all of ya'lls horrible asthma stories I'll be sure to try to get a sympathetic athlete for a doc if/when I go that route. That shouldn't be too difficult in Boulder if my insurance company will cooperate.

smilingcat
02-16-2009, 09:08 PM
Moved from sea level to Boulder back in August. so basically 6 month. You would be acclaimated to the altitude for daily easy activity. but for aerobic sports like cycling and up a hill... whew. it will take a while longer. I normally train at sea level and I used to take like a one/two week trips into the sierras or into the rockies to train. My resting heart rate at altitude was gosh want to say like 20% higher?? and my power output was non-existent. You are working lot harder than you think!!

Give a pat on your back and you are just doing fine (provided its not asthma) Being able to climb at higher elevation is a feat in itself. Lunacycle can attest to that I'm sure. She said she was from Boulder area.

And learn to spin, learn to use your calf, ham string, glutes... Your quads will love you for it.

smilingcat

martinkap
02-16-2009, 09:55 PM
Try to read up on it - might be your case:

http://www.emedicinehealth.com/exercise-induced_asthma/article_em.htm

Martina

Duck on Wheels
02-16-2009, 11:56 PM
I have the same problem, and yes, to some extent it is asthma in my case. But there's also a just-plain-out-of-shape aspect and a psychological aspect, and that last one also relates to a breathing technique aspect. The psychological thing is that when I "know" (anticipate, think) I'm doing something that's going to be tough, I tighten up my abs and almost hold my breath. One answer to that is to concentrate on breathing OUT. Blow out actively and in will take care of itself, especially if you manage to relax your abs a bit, and your shoulders, and just about every part of your body except your legs -- they're the only bits that really need to work hard. I can't say if this is really going to work for me. It's too snowy and icy outside. But I've been practicing thinking this way in the gym (spin class) and when walking hills and it seems to be working there.

Miranda
02-17-2009, 02:51 AM
Good to note.

With all of ya'lls horrible asthma stories I'll be sure to try to get a sympathetic athlete for a doc if/when I go that route. That shouldn't be too difficult in Boulder if my insurance company will cooperate.


In reference to my post earlier regarding asthma...
The cost of DD's pediatric intensive care unit hospital bill was mind blowing. The insurance company's IME would rather pay for disease management, vs acute care. Every insurance company we have had since our dx has it's own disease management unit team that we get specific mailers/info etc. to aid in our asthma action plan. FWIW... things might work out better than you think:).

tulip
02-17-2009, 04:21 AM
I have the same problem, and yes, to some extent it is asthma in my case. But there's also a just-plain-out-of-shape aspect and a psychological aspect, and that last one also relates to a breathing technique aspect. The psychological thing is that when I "know" (anticipate, think) I'm doing something that's going to be tough, I tighten up my abs and almost hold my breath. One answer to that is to concentrate on breathing OUT. Blow out actively and in will take care of itself, especially if you manage to relax your abs a bit, and your shoulders, and just about every part of your body except your legs -- they're the only bits that really need to work hard. I can't say if this is really going to work for me. It's too snowy and icy outside. But I've been practicing thinking this way in the gym (spin class) and when walking hills and it seems to be working there.

Thanks, Duck. This will help me on my Arizona trip in a couple of weeks (I am so totally unprepared!:eek:)

BleeckerSt_Girl
02-17-2009, 06:34 AM
I have the same problem, and yes, to some extent it is asthma in my case. But there's also a just-plain-out-of-shape aspect and a psychological aspect, and that last one also relates to a breathing technique aspect. The psychological thing is that when I "know" (anticipate, think) I'm doing something that's going to be tough, I tighten up my abs and almost hold my breath. One answer to that is to concentrate on breathing OUT. Blow out actively and in will take care of itself, especially if you manage to relax your abs a bit, and your shoulders, and just about every part of your body except your legs -- they're the only bits that really need to work hard. I can't say if this is really going to work for me. It's too snowy and icy outside. But I've been practicing thinking this way in the gym (spin class) and when walking hills and it seems to be working there.

I agree. When I don't pay attention going up a hard hill, I find my breathing reverts to short breaths in synch with my pedal strokes. BAD! I consciously change to deeper slower breathes and make sure I am fully exhaling. But the really important part for me is to do my 'waist-up zen' routine. I let my legs do their work and I envision my body from the waist up just relaxing and being in some yoga meditation class or something. I relax as much as I can from the waist up. When I tense my arms or shoulders, I immediately feel like i need more oxygen- it's weird but true. I envision myself as a little tern flying and floating over the ocean waves effortlessly. Relaxing and breathing slowly and deeply really does help.

MartianDestiny
02-17-2009, 06:55 AM
Well, the commute hill this morning seemed to go better than normal! Maybe I'm just wishing it so or maybe it actually was? Either way I'm happy :D

Dropped a gear (to the middle ring on my bike), psyched myself up, and went for it. Today I had a "rabbit" and my goal was to keep up with him, and it worked! Granted he wasn't a cyclist, but he seemed in fairly good shape and wasn't on a huffy BSO (bike shaped object) so I'm happy.

I've been attempting to relax my upper body which is very good advice (thanks for the reminder) ; I just need to get better at it. My shoulders always tense and hurt going up the hill on my commute; I think that's a function of my pack. On actual rides my goal is to get rid of the "lance hump" I've discovered I have which is actually closing my diaphragm off to some extent. New bike might help with that since it's a hair longer as will ditching my camelbak for some bottle cages (I am a mtn biker after all)

indigoiis
02-20-2009, 05:27 AM
I think a lot of it is psychological. A LOT. As Redrhodie said, shifting your focus off your speed and onto technique or (is it possible?) enjoyment of the task works wonders. After first doing a little stand and climb, I shift down to a spinnier gear, look at my front wheel, and start counting breaths. Often a song will come into my head, or I'll let my thoughts wander. I don't look at the other riders. A guy might hammer by me but by the top, because I'm not pooped, I can often pass other riders who were kicking butt at the bottom.

Slow and steady. Relax your shoulders. Move a little forward. Sing a song. Recite the alpahabet. Count your breaths. Ease up a bit. You'll find it much easier to breathe!

(p.s. this is all stuff I learned right here on TE! ;)

Biciclista
02-20-2009, 06:54 AM
I am also a masher not a spinner, but I noticed that you put yourself in an easier gear this morning and maybe that helped too? The fact is, if you use your granny gear for the big hills, you're not using as much power per stroke to put yourself over the hill and it might make the difference between running out of air and not.

Karma007
02-20-2009, 08:31 AM
Hills! I recently moved froms coastal SC back to the Bay Area and have negative experience on hills. Last night it was sunny enough to sneak in a couple miles in after work. I tackled a short and steep hill near my home only to find that 1/2way up, I actually had to stop and walk it up.

It came in part I think from lack of experience with my gears (I'm working on that) and a recent 'clipless tip'. I'm still a little spooked, and when I saw that I was climbing the hill at 3 mph kind of panicked, thinking that I would soon stop, clipped in and fall again.

Nevertheless, the hill is ny new nemisis. I will conquer thee!

ny biker
02-20-2009, 10:19 AM
I often find that I could walk up a hill faster than I am riding it. I haven't tipped over yet.

One thing I've noticed is that I speed up a bit if I focus on pedaling full circles, so I'm pulling up between 6:00 and 12:00 in addition to pushing with the other leg from 12 down to 6.

OakLeaf
02-20-2009, 10:26 AM
Dropped a gear (to the middle ring on my bike),

Oh good grief, you were trying to climb in the big ring? No wonder you weren't going anywhere. :p

Sounds like a cadence monitor would be a good investment for you. Unless you're in your bottom gear and have no choice, you really want to be above 55-60 rpm on the hills to spare your knees.

Among other things, if you're mashing the gears you're likely not pedaling very smoothly, so you are at a bit greater risk of tipping over when you get below 3 mph or so.

NY Biker, I've heard people say that before, but not while they were walking up said hill. ;) Your walking speed declines on a steep grade, as well...

MartianDestiny
02-20-2009, 04:17 PM
Oh good grief, you were trying to climb in the big ring? No wonder you weren't going anywhere. :p

Sounds like a cadence monitor would be a good investment for you. Unless you're in your bottom gear and have no choice, you really want to be above 55-60 rpm on the hills to spare your knees.

Among other things, if you're mashing the gears you're likely not pedaling very smoothly, so you are at a bit greater risk of tipping over when you get below 3 mph or so.

NY Biker, I've heard people say that before, but not while they were walking up said hill. ;) Your walking speed declines on a steep grade, as well...

O DEAR NO! I've never tried to conquer that hill in the big ring!!! Wasn't long ago I was dropping all the way down to true granny (bike is a triple).

I've started to work some single leg pedaling drills while out with my roommate (who likes to ride her comfort bike around town) and it's definitely helping my spin (not sure how she feels about me keeping up with her one-legged though! :p). I'll keep up with that; just got to find a way to do it and not scratch up my top-tube...poor Yeti :(

I couldn't stand it anymore though and went and picked up my new toy. I've only taken it up the baby commute hill thus far (not the big one), but darn was the difference impressive; I just sailed right on up like it was nothing. I can't wait to try it out on some real rides this weekend. Watch, it will have all been a bike/fit issue (yea, right! "It's not about the bike").

MartianDestiny
02-22-2009, 06:01 PM
It IS all about the bike! HRUMPH!! Here I was thinking I might have a medical issue and my bike just stunk! Well, ok, the motor still does need work, but the new bike is AWESOME. I flew up the hill everyone was dropping me on today; still out of breath, but not in a huffing and puffing, going to fall over sort of way and with more speed to show for it (and a much faster recovery). Rode with (well, LED! whoot!) the mellow group (with one first timer) today so I can't really judge yet, but I'm looking forward to seeing how long I can hang with the "big boys" next week.

Still going to work on intervals, breathing, and the other suggestions here of course. Obviously I should be able to ride any bike and not feel like I'm going to pop, so I still have stuff to work on for sure. Feeling much more confident that it's just getting into the swing of things though now.

I wish my DSLR wasn't in Nikkon's possession so I could post some pics for you guys.

cylegoddess
02-22-2009, 10:56 PM
I have that quote but only cos I started riding to conquer chronic and terrifying illness( yes! I am on my bike,well not today but tommorow, when I can get out of bed again!)
I used to ride a cheapie chain store one, and man, that sucked! My subzero flys where the other one made knees hurt.

I take spin class, for strength too. Its hard for me, alot of days as virus flaring up makes even the light gear seem like a HUGE hill, at high altitude. Plus it tends to increase my lactic acid.( put it this way, I can barely break into run for a couple of meters without breathing heavy.) So I figure, its about equal to busting a gut riding after faster riders, up hills, sorta!

So what I do( rather than cry!) is pretend Im Lance.I picture my legs pumping away, like pistons( and I say this, my legs are pistons, my legs are steel springs!) and flying up alp d'euz or whatever. Then I forget for the most part, how hard it is. Then once I have that down, I do what he does, that is concentrate on breathing out of your nose and mouth in long breaths. Youll breathe all you need to in. I like to picture stuff I watched on facebook, of Tour greats, when I train so I dont get bored( even half dead, with fatigue my mind wanders, go figure!)

PLus a heart monitor will tell you if your really at your limit. If I know I am working at my hardest heart rate( I have one for bad days and one for good), and and am riding as hard as I can go, I figure - hey ! I am kicking *** for today!
Plus, stepping up intervals to four times a week helps build up to hills and keeping up.

Im glad to hear your bike helped out!
Id love a carbon bike,myself.

tribogota
03-01-2009, 10:57 AM
I am in excellent shape and have no "breathing" problems outside of sports, but one wouldn't think so listening to me swim, bike, and run, I huff and puff my way through, even practicing breathing excers. I breathe so heavy you can hear me a mile away, but I am actually NOT that tired, and don't FEEL like I am gonna collapse or drown, so I have stopped worrying about it. At the pool the lifeguards come and ask if I am ok,(until they get to know me), when I am riding up hill, people turn around to see who is breathing so hard as I come up to pass, and running, even slow-ish, I breathe heavy. Just decided that some people breathe heavier, just like some people are more flexible.

eclectic
03-04-2009, 11:42 AM
Yep, I have the same problem. It's my respiratory limitations that get me on the hills. But 2 1/2 years of biking and walking have helped noticeably. I did used to smoke a lot years ago, plus had very severe pneumonia as a child, so all of that has taken it's toll. Sometimes I simply cannot breathe hard enough or deeply enough to get the oxygen I need on a big hill.

ah ha! that is my overall problem - I never thought about it before.
I do have asthma and am trying a new inhaler that will hopefully help and may get a new preventative. But some of my lung problems may have came from the fact that I almost died of pneumonia when I was only 2 weeks old - who knows what damage was done to those tiny little lungs.

As I am gasping going up hills and the others are merrily chatting along - I just gasp out "Just you all wait until I can breathe again! ! ! "

But I must say, if I keep my weight down, strengthen my legs, and ride tons of hills I do see a lot of improvement.

CyclChyk
03-11-2009, 06:33 PM
I don't know if you have use of an elliptical, but no matter how in shape I think I am, all I have to do is hop on an elliptical and get a rude awakening about how awful my cardiovascular becomes over the winter months.

There is also a little plastic gadget you can get that helps to strengthen your lungs. I'm not talking about the sports kind they sell, not sure about those, but my husband has one his oncologist gave him when he was in the hospital and it actually helped my husband. It has a plastic tube hooked to a container that has a plastic ball in it. You gauge how well you do by the rise of the ball.

BleeckerSt_Girl
03-11-2009, 06:47 PM
ah ha! that is my overall problem - I never thought about it before.
I do have asthma and am trying a new inhaler that will hopefully help and may get a new preventative. But some of my lung problems may have came from the fact that I almost died of pneumonia when I was only 2 weeks old - who knows what damage was done to those tiny little lungs.

As I am gasping going up hills and the others are merrily chatting along - I just gasp out "Just you all wait until I can breathe again! ! ! "

But I must say, if I keep my weight down, strengthen my legs, and ride tons of hills I do see a lot of improvement.

Wow, that is a total description of me!
Even after riding 3500 hilly miles in 2007, I was still the only one gasping and breathing hard up hills while even people totally out of shape would be chatting and cruising up the hill! (But on the downhills I drop them like flies, and I can ride much longer distances than they can.) :D And yes I do improve with more walking and biking....but always lagging way behind others when it doesn't seem logical.
It's fascinating to me your story because when I was 6 months old I too almost died of pneumonia- in fact the doctors had already told my parents that they didn't expect me to live...it was that close. Now hearing your story I wonder about the longterm lung damage that may have caused. Pneumonia causes permanent scarring in the lungs, and scarred lung tissue just doesn't work as efficiently. Hmmmm....

Flybye
03-12-2009, 03:07 PM
I have very mild asthma and allergies and have found especially in the spring that I feel like I am breathing through a straw and it is only when going up hill. An inhaler helps.

jobob
03-15-2009, 06:22 AM
I had an asthma attack yesterday after completing a long climb. It was only the second one I've ever had, the first one was almost three years ago (SadieKate and aka_kim got to witness that spectacle back then). Happily, this one was nowhere near as bad, I was pretty sure I wasn't going to die this time ;) but I still had that horrible feeling of my throat closing up for a few minutes.

Anyhow, I poked around w the search function and came across this thread. There's some good info in here, many thanks! It's making me realize that I do routinely get out of breath on long climbs or other long, strenuous activities. I didn't think too much of it, just assumed I was out of shape, but perhaps there's else something to it.

As luck would have it I'm going in for a physical exam this coming week. I'll be discussing this w my Dr.

Thanks again!

bboston88
03-19-2009, 06:48 AM
I'm sucktastic on the hills too! If I'm really trying hard to keep up on an incline I can experience this as well. Just can't get a deep breath. I moved to Georgia, developed major allergies and have asthma as a result.
I have to take my Allbuterol inhaler and suck a shot down after the hill to recover. I'd get checked out for asthma or exercise induced asthma.

Jiffer
03-20-2009, 04:21 PM
I haven't read every reply, but yes, intervals should help. Also, the more you ride, the better you will get. Now that you are pushing yourself more than commuting to work, your body will slowly improve.

I can relate to sucking wind issues. This was a big deal for me, and still is, but less so. I took some time off during most of December and rode like once a week in January. In February, I started riding a bit more and realized that on hills, I wasn't gasping for air at the top like I used to. I was still breathing harder than most people I ride with, but it was nothing like it used to be. This was SO encouraging. I attribute this to, #1 more riding last year and pushing myself, #2 giving myself a break, thereby coming back stronger and #3, I lost about five pounds (and counting). The less you weigh, the less you have to pull up a hill. I'm not overweight, but at 5'9", I automatically come with more pounds to deal with. I don't want to be a stick, but I'm trying to lose some more weight to help me keep up with my climbing friends.

Also, when you climb, make sure you're not hunched over in such a way to keep your lungs from being able to be fully filled with air. Keep your shoulders back and, if it's not too steep of a climb, keep your hands on the top of the bars. The steeper the climb, sit back in your saddle to get more use from your glutes and drop your hands to the shifters, but always be aware of how your position is affecting your lungs. I think that is another thing that has helped me. Being conscious of that.

Riding technique is important too. If you are pedaling efficiently, sitting properly, etc., you'll use less energy, therefore, gasping for air less. So study up on over all riding technique and this should help you with your breathing.

At a metric century I did last year, my friend and hooked up with a couple of other guys who were going our pace. We ended up doing most of the ride together. On one particularly steep and long hill, one of the guys says, "Okay, here's the plan ... " I'm expecting some great pearl of wisdom to come out of his mouth that will help me with my climbing. But he says, "Just listen to Jen's breathing!" :confused: I think my gasping for air was supposed to be a distraction for everyone else and maybe keep them in a good rhythm or something!

I can't wait to do that ride this year and see how much better I get up that hill. I used to avoid hills like the plague. Now I'm CHOOSING to do hills, because #1 I'm getting better at them and that encourages me and #2 I know I have to keep doing them in order to KEEP getting better. I just did the Solvang Century with 4500 feet of climbing. I did it! I conquered those hills and I'm so proud of myself. :)

You will improve with time, but you've gotten a lot of good tips to help you get there.

TrekTheKaty
03-22-2009, 07:13 AM
Spinning class over the winter helped a lot with my hills. I can go a lot farther up before I start gasping. And like Jiffer said, hills make you better at hills. My husband started training at the hill mecca in St. Louis--Babler park. He not only got better at hills, but overall faster on the flats.

supercutie
06-15-2009, 02:57 PM
Hello,
I've been skimming this thread, and while I haven't read every single reply and update, I noticed a few things missing. Namely, no one has addressed technique. By this I mean, breaking up your pedal strokes on your climbs/efforts. Conventional cycling "wisdom" teaches "use the full rotation of the pedal stroke". In other words, when you pedal push down, scrape back, pull up all the time. The largest group of muscles is in the legs: quads, hamstrings and glut's. But how long do you think you could tow a motor home up a steep hill in a Geo Metro? Your body is no different. What if instead of the all torque all the time you break it up? How about scrape (like something nasty is stuck to the toe box of your shoe) back only, and for 10 pedal strokes to start with. Now gently lift your knees (like you have no feet, imagine a string at the top of your knee cap lightly pulling up. BE GENTLE THIS IS A VERY SUBTLE MOVEMENT) Do that for 10 pedal strokes. Oh! and while you do those two pedal strokes turn your hands into hooks and hook the middle of your handle bars, near the stem, while leaning back on the saddle, RELAX. It will feel a bit odd at first, but if you do this correctly you will see two dramatic changes take place: first- all the energy is now in your legs where you need and want it, second- you are very stable on the bike (but it must be a hook made with the fingers) and it's easier to relax. The last pedal stroke is going to involve going 1-2 gears harder and getting out of the saddle. Now all you have to do is push down, let gravity do the rest. Again, try it for 10 pedal strokes. Can't do 10? Do 4, or 5, or whatever works. How do I know this? I have an amazing husband who took me from:a 7 years absence from cycling, 150#, 5'3", 46 yrs old, a part time smoker, and a proud couch potato, who's best AVS (ever) was 13 mph, and the slowest climber on every ride I'd ever done. To: 16 mph AVS, and I just climbed the first 6 miles of Mt Lemmon (5-6% grade over 3,000 ft evelvation gain- after a 4 mile warm up at 19 mph AVS), ladies it took me 22 minutes to get to that 6 mile point, and it was only the second time I've done it. I say that's pretty good for this 47 year old who is still 130#.(BTW got on my bike for the first time in 7 years on 8/10/08, did a 33 mile ride that almost killed me, last to get up every 'hill' and to the turn around point, within 3 weeks I was the staying with the pack, 4 weeks after that I was staying with the leader who races-has raced her whole life- and is about 40# lighter and 7 years younger, AND on EVERY hill) My husband has always said cycling focuses on training and fitness, which are important, but technique can give you an edge that no amount of fitness can beat. He also made me learn to ride rollers. Yes, rollers.:eek: I hated it at first but in a hallway, with elbow pads and loud music, I'm a believer! 5 minutes is like an hour of any Spin Class on acid, and you will get strong, fast, fit and have better bike handling skills than you ever imagined! Anyone who rides them has that knowing smile right now.


I'd also watch, and avoid caffeine before and during your rides. i.e. Energy Gels and Performance Drinks! I noticed every time I got into a climb I felt like my heart was trying to burst through my chest and abandon me by the roadside. Got rid of the caffeine and now I'm fine. Alcohol too, makes your legs ache and/or feel like rubber. Starts depriving muscles of oxygen within the hour and lasts about 24 hrs.
Add the technique and nutrition tips to all the interval training and spin classes, and you'll soon be a monster on those hills!

Jow28
06-25-2009, 10:58 AM
Take some interval spin classes during the week and there is a such thing as exercised induced asthma. I carry an inhaler when I ride up high elevation rides. It helps a ton!

ClockworkOrange
06-25-2009, 02:51 PM
Came across this thread by accident but pleased that I did. I might be going very slightly off Topic but I think it is relevant.

So many of us suffer from asthma, obviously varing degrees.

When I was 4 years old I was in an iron lung for a while with bronchial pneumonia and recently with this Aspergillosis I wonder if there is anything related.

Anyway, I came across the following and thought how extremely relevant it was, I apologise in advance if you are all already aware of this.


Benefits of cycling on physical health

Cycling releases endorphins in the blood stream that helps in reducing stress and creating a feeling of contentment and happiness.

Cycling exposes you to sunlight that generates vitamin D in the body. Vitamin D helps prevent osteoporosis, breast cancer and prostate cancer.

Cycling helps in improving cardiovascular fitness by lowering cholesterol levels and reducing blood pressure. Cycling 20 miles per week can reduce the risk of coronary heart disease to less than half.

It increases joint movement and therefore, reduces the risk of arthritis by strengthening joints. Cycling motion can strengthen knees by providing nourishment that builds up cartilage.

Being an aerobic workout, it helps pump in more oxygen in the lungs, thereby making then stronger. It combats the danger of acquiring respiratory ailments.

Cycling increases the production of cells that attack bacteria and strengthens the immune system.

The sweat generated during cycling helps you get rid of various toxins present in your body, leaving you with a healthier skin and body.

The red comments, I felt were very important for me. After reading this I have so pushed myself but it has paid off. My energy levels and strength are much improved, I try and not attack hills, it is all good. 4 weeks ago I was riding a mile per day, now in the last 4 days have managed almost 50 miles. :)

Am now going to try and find out about spinning classes, phew, there's a first for everything.


Clock

motorpacer
08-12-2009, 01:48 PM
Hi all,

I've also done a skim of this thread re breathing up hills.
All good stuff and good points raised.
Technique is a huge key this both with your legs and your breathing.
Spin classes will help a lot if the ground work is done at the same time in that rather than go for 'lung busting' workouts you'll also need to get some strength out of the home trainer too.
Even doing 5 minutes 'on' in the biggest gear you can turn in a circle (not push push push) at about 60 - 70 revs with no hard breathing at all then 5 minutes off in a little recovery gear x 3 repeats 2 -3 times per will see strength results in approx. 3 - 4 weeks guaranteed! You might be in one of the smallest gears on the bike doing this but who cares, you gotta start your strength somewhere!
This will help with the lung busting stuff because you can't build a breathing base unless you have some strength first.

On the bike, up the hills try just riding up the hill in a small gear pedalling a high but comfortable rev but without breathing hard at all. If you're breathing you're going too hard so slow down. This way all the air coming into the body is being used to go to the muscles efficiently versus going into the build up of lactic acid 'cos you're breathing to hard. Might not seem like it but it's a bit of a strength exercise in that you're still having to turn your pedal in a circle and go up a hill but you're using the lungs / legs super well and getting max benefit.
The other way up the hill in training is the same as the home trainer exercise. hands on the drops in race position (a must because it works all ya bum as well as all your legs too!) biggest gear you can turn (not push push but circles) at 50 -70 revs without any hard breathing. Again if you're breathing change gear to an easier one.
You'll notice that after a while you'll be able to go to a bigger gear and be comfy with it and then on the bunch rides you can approach the hills in a gear where you have good cadence with little pressure on the pedals and keep up better.
The most important thing to remember when climbing (other than technique) is to concentrate on your breathing by keeping it steady and regular.
Also, practice breathing through your diaphram rather than keeping it all in your chest. Get way more oxygen on board and way bigger, more relaxed breaths using this method.
Hope this helps and remember it all takes time but I've found in the past that one of the best ways to get good on hills is to ride hills!

thanks for listening,

Motorpacer.

Mmm4dmb
12-19-2009, 07:50 PM
I'm a runner, and I have always had breathing issues running and biking up huge hills, I can do it no problem but my breathing is super hard, once I get up it I feel drained...but in a few minutes I'm right back to normal. I dont know why this is because I dont have asthma or anything and I love the challenge of hills but I dont know why I tend to breathe so hard going up them...I'd really like to know as well

blackhillsbiker
12-20-2009, 06:51 PM
I have to count for inhales and exhales. I started that when I used to run. I now pair it with shifting back and forth between 2 gears on hills. Usually 4 to six counts. It takes my mind off the hill, reminds me to breathe deeply and evenly, and keeps me from gasping for air.

Deb

Catrin
12-21-2009, 11:41 AM
I've been wondering about the best way to handle hills, breathing wise. I DO have asthma, though it generally doesn't bother me unless I am either ill with a respiratory infection or around the combination of cats AND carpet (I can handle either individually, just not combined). In spinning class as long as I don't get up to that lactate threshold too often there isn't a problem with my breathing - but of course - spinning class is a rather different thing - as I am very much looking forward to finding out!

Just picture me taking good mental notes of the best way to handle hills when one has lungs that can be a little cranky...

chicagogal
12-22-2009, 07:19 PM
Oh Catrin,
I've been reading your posts, and totally think that you are over-analyzing everything! I don't mean this to be mean, but I really think that what you need to do is just to get out there and ride. You'll see what works for you and what doesn't. There isn't a specific formula for how to be a good rider. Everyone has strengths/weaknesses, and everyone does things differently to play to their strengths. My advice to you would be to not anticipate problems, and not try to plan for every scenario. Just be loose and relaxed on your bike and ride with a smile. Being relaxed really helps when quick/subtle adjustments are needed. And that is really it - just ride!

Crankin
12-23-2009, 04:21 AM
I try to anticipate everything, too. Then, when something happens, I can spring into action. It's the nature of my personality to be a planner. While I don't think it's obsessive, it does make me feel more prepared. I don't think I was analyzing everything when I began riding, probably was because I just followed what my DH was trying to impress upon me. I listened a lot and asked tons of questions. I had been riding for a while when I joined TE and I listened a lot then, too.
I am not a person who tries new things easily and I am somewhat risk averse. All of the women in my family, except perhaps my mom, were "afraid" of everything. I had to overcome a lot fear to do what seems like nothing to me now. All of the planning and analyzing helped me do that.

Catrin
12-23-2009, 02:07 PM
O... My advice to you would be to not anticipate problems, and not try to plan for every scenario. Just be loose and relaxed on your bike and ride with a smile. Being relaxed really helps when quick/subtle adjustments are needed. And that is really it - just ride!

I am a planner by nature - indeed that is what I do for a living - long-range transportation planning :) Everyone I know, outside of my trainers at the gym, think I am nuts for doing this at 50 - so my reaction is, of course, to try and plan things out. It is just my nature - and of course life never works that way anyway :rolleyes: So I ride every chance I get, and when I am on my bike I don't even think about any of these things. Thanks for your gentle reminder!

Crankin
12-24-2009, 02:36 AM
Catrin, you will find that people will generally continue with the "you are nuts" talk even as you prove to them that you are continuing to ride. My friends that I've had for years just shake their heads. It wasn't "nuts" when i went to the gym all of the time, but cycling is! I think in their eyes going to the gym is what "women do," but cycling is just too dangerous. One of them continually tells me what she "used" to do, like hiking, etc., but now she doesn't even want to sweat a little. I once went for a 5 mile walk with her and she came with a bath towel draped around her shoulders, to wipe off the sweat.
Keep riding.