How can this be with my new bike?

[denny]

OK folks, I traded in my bike a few months ago for a WSD Fuji Silhouette 07 (affectionately named Song.) I hate to say this, but as much as I love the lightness of this new bike (carbon fiber throughout),it has had some problem or another for 4 out of 5 rides!!

My front cables broke on 2 rides- I was told by Peformance BS that I was shifting too "roughly". What the heck? I'm such a puny rider that I'm worried any extra push may break something. Additional advice-come back into the store to replace the cable if it won't drop into the smaller ring again. Also I was told that I have a triple shifter being used on a double compact ring. Why the heck would Fuji do that? I'm scratching my head.:confused:
Another Bike shop takes a look at the shifter and say, "naah, you've got double shifters". Whatever...... I'm getting deflated by then.

On my 3rd ride the cable from the rear derailleur(sp?) became frayed because it was bolted too tightly in and my shoe brushing against the cable eventually caused it to untwist. Had to take it back to the store for them to replace it.

Finally today, the weather eases up in ATL-I get out there on my bike with the guys. BTW- that's a good thing that they've stopped calling me "Crash", only to get in the middle of the hill and have the chain fall off when trying to shift to the small chain in front. We get that problem solved and no more than 3 rotations from that problem, the rear hanger completely hangs in the middle of my shifting to a larger ring in the rear and everything jams with a screeching halt.:eek: That was it..end of ride. I was advised not to try and ride anymore in order to avoid further damage to the chain.

The only thing these events had in common was shifting from my large to small ring. I didn't have this problem with my triple ring Scattante and I was much more clumsy inexperienced rider then, but somehow I always end up with this problem on my double compact Fuji.

Everyone keeps advising me that this may not be the best bike for me in the end. I'm now completely deflated at the thought of another trade in with PBS (although I'm glad I have the option) but am I really doing this all wrong?

[ridebikeme]

Well, first I must say that Fuji makes a great bike. Although the key to a great bike is having a shop that is experienced enough to set it up CORRECTLY! It sounds to me that someone may have been a bit inexperienced setting up your bike... in 17 years as a mechanic, I've never seen a cable fray because it was clamped too tight. Did the cable have a cable end on it?(metal thing covering the end) Although it can happen.... my point to all of this is that it sounds like this bike was a learning experience for someone, and now unfortunately for you! I would take it back to Performance and have their ace mechanic go through the entire bike... if that isn't possible then I would take it to another LBS. They should be looking for a bent chain, derailleur hanger, derailleurs set up correctly,and the fact that the cables are fed through the shifters correctly and also run through housing that isn't frayed or has wires sticking from it and simply going through the entire bike.

AS for shifting on hills, what I normally try to tell people is try to quess what gear you need to be in before you start. If you happen to shift during the hill and want to shift to your small ring, then shift up one in the back first. This takes up more slack for your front derailleur and generally helps quite a bit. Remember that when you are shifting during the hill to be patient, and try and put less stress on the pedals during the shift... once the chain has moved then you should be all set.

I hope someone takes their time to simply check over your bike; it's simply unacceptable for someone not to enjoy their new bike! Have fun and keep us posted!!

[uforgot]

Denny, I seem to recall that this isn't the first time you have had to take that bike back! Something smells here, and it seems to be Performance Bike, not Fuji. You should NOT have to take it to a lbs. I'd start going through the chain of command and maybe even point them to this thread so that they know the problems are going out to lots of cyclists. Maybe you should find the local Fuji area rep and let him know also. I like the top mechanic idea and definitely don't speak to some kid on the floor. Stick to your guns, be polite but firm. Good luck and keep us posted!

[Aggie_Ama]

It sounds like the bike shop not the bike REEKS. I rode a Fuji Finest as my first bike for over 3k and had no major issues. The bike was dialed in by a mechanic I trusted (and still do) plus lovingly cared for. Performance should make this right but if not I would take your new baby elsewhere. Fuji does make quality products and I really don't see how you personally can be causing all those issues. Don't give up, you have some good suggestions on how to resolve this situation.

[denny]

, I've never seen a cable fray because it was clamped too tight. Did the cable have a cable end on it?(metal thing covering the end)

Ride- yes the cable had the cap on the end. The cable itself was too long and it took a hit from my shoe with each rotation of the pedal.

Uforgot- yup, this isn't my first bike with PBS as I traded in my Scattante 560for the FUJI. This bike is a really sweet ride outside all of the issues with cables and shifters, but it requires so much thinking to make sure I didn't overshift or undershift, am I going to break it again,etc.:eek: It kind of takes away from the ride if I have to worry about what's going to go wrong.

I'm having a terrible headache tonight so I'll just deal with PBS tomorrow and see how it goes. ugghhh. Just when I thought I was making progress.
Do you think it would make a difference in my shifting problems if I went back to a standard cassette?

I'll keep you guys posted.

[aicabsolut]

Ok, compacts can be finicky. However, it sounds like someone wasn't paying attention when they built your bike. The cable should NOT snap off right away. The other end shouldn't unravel with the cap on or for being clamped tightly, even if it does hit your shoe. It was probably already starting to fray from shoddy installation. Then even if your front derailleur isn't tuned properly (which can be hard to do on a compact...that's why I taught myself to do it...my shops kept failing), it should not destroy the rear end of your drivetrain!

I agree with ridebikeme, though I would say that approaching a hill, I tend to shift to a smaller cog or two in the rear if I'm near the inside of the cassette, because chain drop to the inside seems to be more common with compacts, even with the lower limit set properly. By being a little farther out on the cassette, you're less likely to drop it to the inside, in my experience.

This takes some planning, because you don't want to shift harder once you're already on the hill. It took some practice to get a method that seems to make my bike happy. You might find another technique that works once this thing gets fixed.

Now you might want to go over the Performance people's heads and call Fuji. I know they do good warranty service on cracked frames and such. You might be able to get a replacement bike directly from them without messing with Performance. However, since it is just your components, I would first find out where the thing was built. Was it mostly assembled by Fuji or by Performance?

[fidlfreek]

Ok first of all, at least at my local Performance BS they are great people, but they let guys with almost zero experience work in the back and do mechanics etc.

Also, I'm going to go geeky on you here for a minute. According to the Fiji site the silhouette has the short reach ST-R700 shifters on it. They are double/triple compatible. Shimano makes the 105 (regular ST-5600 and short reach ST-R700) shifters so they work on both options - there is no such thing as "the triple shifter" or the "double shifter" as long as your talking about 105 level components. The Ultegra shifters on the other hand come in double (ST-6600) and triple (ST-6603) specific options, as do the Dura-Ace (ST-7800 and ST-7803). For starters any bike mechanic that doesn't know this probably isn't going to be able to help.

I'm sorry this is sucking so so much. I agree with the shifting advice a few posts up. Even a well set up bike is going to have trouble shifting up front under a climbing load. Its just the nature of the mechanical way the front derailleur works....

[Pedal Wench]

Denny, I would try the REI around the corner from PBS - ask for Alan - he's a god. Really! He can fix anything!

Your bike is a Fuji frame, and Shimano components. The problems have nothing to do with your Fuji frame. So, once you get the drivetrain (Shimano) dialed in, the bike will be the dream you want it to be!

PW

[fidlfreek]

Agreed! But you really shouldn't have to pay to have this thing in perfect working order....

[fatbottomedgurl]

I'm just curious- what size frame are you riding? My LBS highly recommended against a compact on a small frame- too many shifting issues. (Maybe just on Treks- that's what they carry.) And I totally trust their mechanical skills.

[Becky]

I'm just curious- what size frame are you riding? My LBS highly recommended against a compact on a small frame- too many shifting issues. (Maybe just on Treks- that's what they carry.) And I totally trust their mechanical skills.

I'm interested to hear more about this and learn a little more. My Bianchi is a 49cm with a compact, and I've ridden other small bikes with compacts. No problems that I could find...

There are some limitations to compacts when in the small ring, due to the 14- to 16- tooth drop between rings and chain drag across the larger ring when cross-chained (but you shouldn't do that anyway!). The shorter wheelbase of a smaller bike exacerbates this. As long as I'm careful about planning my shift to the big ring, it's not been too much of an issue for me.

What issues have they run into?

[denny]

I'm just curious- what size frame are you riding? My LBS highly recommended against a compact on a small frame- too many shifting issues. (Maybe just on Treks- that's what they carry.) And I totally trust their mechanical skills.

I'm riding a 53cm frame on the Silhouette. PBS is taking a look at it today and to their credit they're giving it a more detailed exam (without my asking) due to the malfunction on each ride. Sad thing though, the paint got really scratched up when the chain dropped.:(

Will wait to see how it turns out. A mechanic at one of the LBS told me that a lot of the manufacturers are now installing triple shifters on standard double rings, due to efficiency in installation. The manufacturers do list a warning of "overshifting" due to the difference. Hope I got his explanation correct.

[wildeny]

I'm just curious- what size frame are you riding? My LBS highly recommended against a compact on a small frame- too many shifting issues. (Maybe just on Treks- that's what they carry.) And I totally trust their mechanical skills.

I just got my Fuji Finest RC 2009 in the end of January. My bike is XS (44cm) with a compact crankset 50/34. I haven't noticed any shifting problem, but I may not ride enough to give any conclusion.

I even replaced the original Shimano 105 cassette 11-25T with SRAM Rival cassette 11-28T when getting my bike. I really need that 28T. Before buying my bike, I considered to get the bike with a triple but couldn't find one I liked. Then I encountered this article, The Rise of the Compact Crank (aka "The Death of the Triple") (http://bikehugger.com/2008/05/the_rise_of_the_compact_crank.htm), so I settled down with a compact. I even made a chart (http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w27/wildenyster/DoubleTripleST.jpg) of Standard (with 11-23T) vs Compact (my 11-28T) vs Triple (12-27T).
(PS: Cannot use the larger ring with 28T in my setup, but that's alright since it's cross-chained anyway).

As for danny's problem, it sounds that the components are not installed properly or they are faulty. Is this a new bike? I hope your problem can be solved soon.

[fatbottomedgurl]

I'm interested to hear more about this and learn a little more. My Bianchi is a 49cm with a compact, and I've ridden other small bikes with compacts. No problems that I could find...

There are some limitations to compacts when in the small ring, due to the 14- to 16- tooth drop between rings and chain drag across the larger ring when cross-chained (but you shouldn't do that anyway!). The shorter wheelbase of a smaller bike exacerbates this. As long as I'm careful about planning my shift to the big ring, it's not been too much of an issue for me.

What issues have they run into?

That's pretty much it exactly.

[Jo-n-NY]

Last year my chain dropped a couple of times on a hilly organized ride and ended up saging back (a first for me). It had dropped before this but we thought the problem was taken care of.

As it turns out it is good thing I did end the ride when I did. There seemed to be a problem/defect with my FSA K-Force 2 piece carbon crankset that came on the bike. In fact, we heard that there have been problems with this crank. My bike is a 2007 Ruby Pro. I switched it to Ultegra and it is working great.

~ JoAnn

[fidlfreek]

Sorry you had trouble! The K-Force gets really lousy reviews.

http://www.roadbikereview.com/cat/drivetrain/cranksets/fsa/PRD_335457_2491crx.aspx

So its not just you!

[denny]

I got the bike back today. The hanger had been replaced, spokes trued up and tires inflated. Went for my ride tonight and did 4 laps around the local park including a few small hills when on the 5th lap with a friend, in the same spot as usual, I couldn't drop from my big ring to the small ring. My friend kept saying "push your lever" over again. I did. Nothing happened. There was no tension in the lever. "Push harder." Still Nothing. We had to pull over where he picked up the bike, spun the pedals and shifted it back to the small ring. I did the entire last lap in my small ring.

Now supposedly, I "over or hard shifted" why my cables broke in the first few rides and applied too much pressure on the cranks causing the rear derailleur hanger to break. So which is it? Am I too rough or not rough enough.:confused: PBS told me to let them know if I still had a problem, so I'll follow up with them. I think they've been pretty decent about this.

Until the next epidsode of "The Perils of Penelope":D

[Jo-n-NY]

Thanks for the link to the reviews. We found out from Specialized last year that indeed there have been problems with that crank. It had only dropped in gears 1 & 2 which are gears I seldom use and I don't think used in the first year of having the bike.

Keep in mind that the crank is from 2007 and they might have taken care of the problem by now.

I am fine with my none carbon Ultegra crank. I also purposely went on those hill repeats on Sunday to get over the fear of the chain dropping in those 2 low gears. I feel much better now :)

~ JoAnn

[aicabsolut]

I got the bike back today. The hanger had been replaced, spokes trued up and tires inflated. Went for my ride tonight and did 4 laps around the local park including a few small hills when on the 5th lap with a friend, in the same spot as usual, I couldn't drop from my big ring to the small ring. My friend kept saying "push your lever" over again. I did. Nothing happened. There was no tension in the lever. "Push harder." Still Nothing. We had to pull over where he picked up the bike, spun the pedals and shifted it back to the small ring. I did the entire last lap in my small ring.

Now supposedly, I "over or hard shifted" why my cables broke in the first few rides and applied too much pressure on the cranks causing the rear derailleur hanger to break. So which is it? Am I too rough or not rough enough.:confused: PBS told me to let them know if I still had a problem, so I'll follow up with them. I think they've been pretty decent about this.

Until the next epidsode of "The Perils of Penelope":D

It still sounds to me like the cables are over-tightened. As in, they need to make sure they got the limits set right before they started the indexing.

When you tried to shift to the small ring, did the lever move? Just nothing happened? You might try spraying a ton of WD-40 down in that shifter (compress the brake and move the levers around to spray in there). Perhaps they didn't grease the cables when they installed them.

You might try taking some thick lube or some cable grease and getting at the cables down under the BB. There might be too much friction there too.

[aicabsolut]

Thanks for the link to the reviews. We found out from Specialized last year that indeed there have been problems with that crank. It had only dropped in gears 1 & 2 which are gears I seldom use and I don't think used in the first year of having the bike.

Keep in mind that the crank is from 2007 and they might have taken care of the problem by now.

I am fine with my none carbon Ultegra crank. I also purposely went on those hill repeats on Sunday to get over the fear of the chain dropping in those 2 low gears. I feel much better now :)

~ JoAnn

3rd generation FSA K-Force (in particular, the newer K-Force Light cranks) are supposedly ok).

But if was just a chain drop issue, you got off easy ;). I've known people who have had problems with a crankarm trying to fall off! BTW, compacts will often have a chain drop issue when you are too high up in the cassette and shifting to the small ring. It's good practice to shift between rings on a compact (both ways) from farther out on the cassette. I have to do that, and I have a 36T inner ring (less of a tooth difference).