Lower body lifting and cycling

[bluebug32]

My training this winter consists of riding the trainer, taking an erging class, an occasional squash game, and strength training. In Feb. I'll be starting more focused and intense work on the trainer and still erging twice a week. I like to keep strength training in my upper body and doing core work, but when I lift for the lower body, my legs get pretty sore and I'm much less apt to hit the train for a day or two after.

How important is lower body lifting right now? Am I gaining enough strength through the trainer and erging to be able to eliminate it when I ramp up my spin work? My goals this winter are to increase on the bike endurance and power.

[equus123]

How important is lower body lifting right now? Am I gaining enough strength through the trainer and erging to be able to eliminate it when I ramp up my spin work? My goals this winter are to increase on the bike endurance and power.

Lower body lifting is indeed important if one of your goals is to increase power. You need at least 6 weeks of lifting at a minimum to have gains and improvement. But your exercises or sets/reps ratio needs to be varied or else your body will become accustomed to what you're doing and plateau.

I do a 12 week strength training program over the winter. During that time I'm also doing some tempo or sub threshold work on the bike to work on my aerobic base, leaving all the "hard stuff" for the gym 2 or 3 days a week. Once that 12 week strength training is over for me in the late winter, my bike workouts change to start incorporating more threshold work and adding some neuromuscular workouts (e.g. 10 second sprints every few minutes for the duration of a ride). And then once the spring and summer role around (for me, it's racing season) then my workouts decrease in volume but increase the intensity through lots of sprint and short effort workouts (i.e. high power/high force).

Having it set up in this way helps your body to translate the strength you've acquired from lifting to putting force through the pedals and applying it directly to propelling yourself faster and harder on the bike.

This year I'm also going to try something new throughout the season by replacing one bike workout per week with explosive plyometrics coupled with power lifts. I want to see if it helps me with creating force better than just solely training on the bike.


Another thing to remember, though, is not to focus on how terrible and slow and sluggish your legs feel right now in the off season/during the winter. That's not the point of what you're doing right now. This time - in the big picture - is to rip and strain your muscles so that they repair and become stronger. Not to always ride well and fast all-year-round. If you're a competitive cyclist or if you have certain goals then you need to always remind yourself of the big picture and not so much the moment. It's okay if your legs are aweful right now. They're supposed to be! The only way your body adapts to stresses (i.e. you get better) is through stressing it!!

[bluebug32]

Thank you!

So, it sounds like I should keep lifting some on the lower body? I haven't done it for 12 weeks yet (started in Nov, but had to take 2 weeks off). I'm doing two days a week in the gym, one day focusing on bicep/tricep, chest/back and the other focusing on lower body/shoulders, doing four sets per muscle group of different exercises.

[RoadRaven]

Bluebug, I suggest you do some reading around this, or talk to specific cycling trainers/coaches.
There are different schools of thought on weight training.

Some say definately do (like Equus). And (also like Equus says), be smart and specific about what and how you incorporate weights into your training programme.

Others say do weights, not specifically to improve your cycling but as a sensible cross-training programme which will, by way of increasing your fitness level, have the follow on effect of increasing your fitness on the bike as well as ensuring your body gets an all-over work-out.

Then there are others (like me I guess - and remember, I am self-coached and self-taught... not a physio, a trainer, a coach) who do no weight training. I have read widely of cycle science specific books and articles, I have talked to the elite men and women I occasionally mix with, I have listened in on conversations, and I have taken part in forum conversations liike this one. So my opinion is only a lay-person opinion... not an expert's.
I do no strength weight-training for several reasons

When I have time to exercise, I want to be on a bike, not stuck in one place with weights. I want to be on the road.
I do not want to build muscle (non-cycle specific muscle) because I already carry too much weight up a hill.
When I have time to exercise, I want to be on a bike, not stuck in one place with weights. I want to feel the sun or the wind or the rain.
When I look at/read/listen to/watch how pro-cyclists get ready for events, they ride a bike. Lots. And then they ride it again. Lots.
When I have time to exercise, I want to be on a bike, not stuck in one place with weights. I want to breathe in the smells and scents of our world.



I do believe there are merits in strength-training with weights, particularly for women who may need to be stronger in their upper torso/arms in order to cope comfortably with the postition a bike can place you in.

I am still to be convinced that strength-training the legs has merits for cycling, because you are (potentially/probably) strengthening the muscles in different ways, and teaching your muscles to be strong in a different way to that which they will be used on a bike.

Keep asking and researching, and if you opt for weight/strength training, do be advised by someone who actually rides a bike or who has worked with cyclists. All the best.

[Dogmama]

My goals this winter are to increase on the bike endurance and power.

How are you defining power? Sprinting? Increasing total speed?

For endurance, you need to build type I, slow twitch muscle fibers. These muscle fibers excel in oxygenating the muscle tissue and do not fatigue easily. They are also smaller than type II, fast twitch (think body builder) muscles. If your lower body work entails pushing big weights for 10 reps X 4 sets, you are engaging the little used type II, fast twitch fibers. That could be part of the cause of your soreness, along with using your muscles in different angles than you usually use on the bike.

I do train lower body in the off season. I use higher reps, never lower than 10, and I train explosively because this mimics the type of muscular power I need in a sprint, or to power up a steep hill. Since type I fibers are smaller than type II, I don't worry about adding muscle weight that I won't need on the bike - although that isn't a big concern for me anyway. Being a 54 y.o. female, I'll take any muscle I can build because it increases my metabolism. It also makes you look better nekked! :D:D:D

[SCurve]

I have been a trainer and cyclist for 10 years, and I do use resistance training for one very specific reason to improve my cycling: To increase my lactate threshold so my legs can produce more power and I "burn out" less quickly on sprints and climbs.

To do this, cyclists can work in a program of plyometrics and super-slow training. It is *very* intense, and an untrained person should definitely consult a sports and fitness professional to do it correctly.

Like anything you do, your body adapts. By working in explosive plyometrics and intense super-slow resistance training, you can move beyond training plateaus and realize power when riding that you never knew you had!

I have to admit, though, that this stuff is not for the casual cyclist. You have to kind of like torturing yourself in the gym. I'm tall and thin, but I've been training with weights (properly) for 17 years, so my body loves to be challenged. My workout partner, who is a former college athlete and 10 years younger than I, also enjoys our ultra-challenging workouts--but again, her body is also "primed" because of her history as an athlete.

If you have not trained seriously with weights before, you might not enjoy this type of training. But if you are competitive on a bike, and you consult a well-trained fitness pro for help, you will *love* what this stuff does for your cycling production!

To each her own, but that's my two-cents. :)

[bluebug32]

Thanks for the helpful responses. When I say power, I basically mean endurance (climbing up a steep, long hill, keeping up with a group on my mtb or roadbike, and being able to ride for a while). So, slow twitch it is. Racing isn't a priority, just want to be able to ride frequently and a little faster.

Two questions from the last two posts: By training "explosively" does this mean doing a high number of reps (how many?) at a lower weight? Am I still lifting slowly or should I be increasing the speed?

Also, plyometrics, don't they work on fast twitch muscles? I see the value of doing them, but they may not be the best for what I want. Thoughts?

[michelem]

Check out this thread (if you haven't already). Post #9 is something I took from Bicycling Magazine, and I really noticed how much it helped my climbing last year. I just started doing it again this week . . . :eek:

http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=24981

[SCurve]

Hi bluebug,
You're right, plyos are meant for fast-twitch, ATP-burning muscles. I was thinking of power as the maximum force produced in short bursts of energy, rather than extended endurance-type power-production that you talked about.

Regardless, plyos do help you condition muscle fibers you don't normally access when cycling. This can help to increase your pedaling effectiveness because you have more muscle fibers at-the-ready for each stroke. I especially notice increased pedaling efficiency with my hamstrings and glutes when I am effectively training with plyos, and that can be really useful for your long climbs, too. Nothing creates powerful glutes like jump squats, and lordy knows we all need powerful glutes for long climbs.

Have fun!!!:D

[Dogmama]

Two questions from the last two posts: By training "explosively" does this mean doing a high number of reps (how many?) at a lower weight? Am I still lifting slowly or should I be increasing the speed?

Also, plyometrics, don't they work on fast twitch muscles? I see the value of doing them, but they may not be the best for what I want. Thoughts?

(An aside qualification, I'm an ISSA certified personal trainer and a Spinning instructor)

Explosive training means lifting as fast as you can with good form. So, it might mean training at a lower weight. For cycling, I would do 2-3 sets of 12 reps to start and increase to 3-4 sets of 12 reps. Think about the muscles you need for a sudden jump in speed to catch up with a pack, or the added strength you need when the hill goes from gradual to straight up. That is the power you want to train for.

The laws of specificity state that in order to get better riding a bike you need to ride a bike (people get paid to think these thoughts?). In the weight room, you train to get the muscular and neurological adaptations that cycling requires.

[bluebug32]

Thanks, Dogmama :) Any set of specific exercises you would suggest? I had read the article in Bicycling that was referred to a few posts up and it seems well-rounded. Don't know if it matters, but I'm 26, and while I've been training the upper body for two seasons, this is the first with a real program for the lower. My concern is staying fresh enough to be able to do a 2-hour a week for 12 weeks, power to the pedals program on the bike.

[Dogmama]

Thanks, Dogmama :) Any set of specific exercises you would suggest?

I like compound exercises that use several muscles/joint combinations. They tend to be more time efficient & burn more calories.

My favorite is called a Bulgarian Split Squat. OK....I saw your eyes glaze over! Check it out here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_Q8FKO7Ueg
You will probably want to chuck to dumbbells and make sure you have something to grab for balance. It's great for your glutes & hamstrings.

Front squats work your quads more than regular squats. They also work your core. You can use a couple of dumbbells held on the front part of your shoulders if you do not/cannot handle a barbell.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHu4jhUbx9M&feature=related

For functional strength that you'll use on the bike, I tend to stay away from most leg exercises on machines, e.g., leg extensions, hamstring curls, etc. Because your weight is supported and motion is predetermined, it doesn't carry over to functional strength. Think about the times you've had to squat in your kitchen to get a pan. Now, think of the times you've had to do a hamstring curl.:p

[Zen]

...taking an erging class...

:confused:
Q'est que c'est "erging"?

[Tuckervill]

ergonomic rower?

Why the heck don't they just call it rowing?


Karen

[bluebug32]

I like compound exercises that use several muscles/joint combinations. They tend to be more time efficient & burn more calories.

My favorite is called a Bulgarian Split Squat. OK....I saw your eyes glaze over!

Oh wow, these are intense! I'm thinking I should have started without the weight first, as I was very sure I was going to fall over or my legs would break in half! I'll try another set today, after having a few days of rest. Thanks again for your suggestions:)