what is more important for climbing?

[Gertruda]

What is more important for climbing? The weight of the bike, the weight of the bike and the rider on it, the absence of rare suspension, or the skills of the rider?
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The story behind these questions is:
I don't have a mountain bike yet, and trying to find a good one for me, but of course it will be an entry-level bike.

Currently I am choosing between hardtail and full suspension, that is a bit heavier than hardtail (duh..). The components are very similar (both of them are low-end, entry level, but are not bad - I've checked out the websites....).
I'd choose a hardtail, but the other one - FS, fits me better (but not much). And hardtail one is "taller", I guess the center of gravity will be more "back" when I will climb, so I am quite stuck with this dilemma - hardtail, that is lighter but i am not sure I will make it fit for me; and FS that fits well, but heavier. Both are about $500 now.

One more question - does anyone put here their saddle higher than handlebars level? How bad it would be for newbie? (I want a Small size bike, as Middle one looks way too big, ha. but on S I have to lift up my seat... )
According to wrenchscience my "fit" is (for road bike)
Frame Size center-to-center: 16 in
Frame Size center-to-top: 17 in
Is it ok to get a C-T ~15 in on MTB for me?

[Irulan]

What is more important for climbing? The weight of the bike, the weight of the bike and the rider on it, the absence of rare suspension, or the skills of the rider?

you left out frame geometry, and fit. Those, and skills would be the top of my list.

Don't over think your first mountain bike purchase. Trust me, I know how easy this is to do.

Center of gravity is more about where YOU are on the bike. If your frame is too big, esp too long in the top tube then it becomes and issue, but honestly, I think you are over thinking this.

Saddle height relative to handle bars is about riding style. For a standard XC riding position and especially old school XC racing, the saddle is always higher than the bars. Once you move more towards all mountain geometry ( more slack) the rider position becomes more upright.

Some words of advice. If you are spending less than $1000, (you say entry level) you will always get more bang for your buck with a hardtail. Inexpensive FS bikes are heavier and more poorly componented that their hardtail brethren. If you can't spend at least $1500 on a FS I think you should forget it. I am also of the school that you learn better bike handling skills on a hardtail.

Wrenchscience is a good place to start but most importantly, get thee to a bike shop and ride/try lots of bikes. That will tell you more about what feels right than any web site calculator. Road bike fit is not the same as mountain bike fit. About the only thing that will be the same is actual saddle height for climbing. Most folks I know who have used road bike sizing to buy a mountain bike have ended up with a mountain bike that is too big, too long for them.


Irulan

[alpinerabbit]

I second Irulan about not buying a FS in this price range. As for geometry, you should also look at length - seatpost to handlebar. Is that one ok?

[Gertruda]

you left out frame geometry, and fit. Those, and skills would be the top of my list.

True. The question was not quite correct then - I was wondering what else is important when both bikes fit.


Don't over think your first mountain bike purchase. Trust me, I know how easy this is to do.
:) And thanks for a reply!



Some words of advice. If you are spending less than $1000, (you say entry level) you will always get more bang for your buck with a hardtail. Inexpensive FS bikes are heavier and more poorly componented that their hardtail brethren. If you can't spend at least $1500 on a FS I think you should forget it. I am also of the school that you learn better bike handling skills on a hardtail.

I tried (from ~$500 range) Novara, GT, Ironhorse, Cannondale and K2 in local Rei and PerformanceBike; Ironhorse and Cannondale were the lightest. I liked Cannondale F6 feminine (http://www.cannondale.com/bikes/08/cusa/model-8FSW6.html) and K2 Ridgeline (http://www.rei.com/product/761435); F6 - the lightest; K2 - the most comfortable feeling when I am on it and it is not heavier than i.e. Novara Aspen or Cannondale F7. But is is heavier than F6.

The biggest problem - my lack of experience: when I test ride - I am not quite registering... :) It is more like OMG-OMG-OMG, in a good sense of course... Will try F6 this weekend one more time then.

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I reread my own comment - I am turning the topic a bit different way than it says on the title... Sorry . :o
Still I guess discussion about climbing will be a help for me in the future anyway.

[Gertruda]

As for geometry, you should also look at length - seatpost to handlebar. Is that one ok?
Hm, I will recheck it, I think it was the same in both cases; just F6 has wider handlebar, so K2 felt better, as its handlebar is more narrow.

[fatbottomedgurl]

Get a hardtail and ride the h*ll out of it. It will make you a better rider.

[crazycanuck]

I ride a hardtail & find no problem with them..

My Scott & I enjoy the hills :)

[alpinerabbit]

Most handle bars can be chopped if they turn out too wide.

[bike4ever]

I think a hard tail is an excellent way to learn to climb. It also forces you to learn your bike for the fun aspect of going down hill. I agree with what others have said - you will get more bike for your money with a hard tail. If there are any FS bikes under th $1000, they will be tanks.

Do you have any other LBS (local bike shop) around you? Honestly, REI and Performance are not known for their bike fits.

[Gertruda]

ok-ok, will think more about getting a hardtail, but I will try not to overthink :)

I hesitate to go to "professional" stores; I better buy something from "popular" store, as they have free tune-ups and maintenance for sometime.


Alpinerabbit, you are right, I was told that they can narrow the handlebar for me.

[alpinerabbit]

er - ?? any "professional" store should just as much give you a free first tune-up. and they'll definitely do some tweaks for you. What makes you think they wouldn't? It's good customer care.

The second tune-up / overhaul will start costing you at any store.

[Zen]

The second tune-up / overhaul will start costing you at any store.

If you buy a bike from my LBS it comes with free lifetime tune-ups

[Irulan]

er - ?? any "professional" store should just as much give you a free first tune-up. and they'll definitely do some tweaks for you. What makes you think they wouldn't? It's good customer care.

The second tune-up / overhaul will start costing you at any store.

eep:eek:
This is a whole different discussion, why you might want to support your local specialty store over large chain conglomerate.....

[bike4ever]

Lifetime basic adjustments go with everyone of my shop's bike sales.

[Miranda]

If you buy a bike from my LBS it comes with free lifetime tune-ups


Lifetime basic adjustments go with everyone of my shop's bike sales.


Every time I read things like this it always make me think about how I LOVE:rolleyes: how many times I have been @#$%^&* over by my lbs-S (yes, that is S as in the plural sense:mad:).

OKAAAYY... *takes deep cleansing breath*

On what bike to buy, sometimes simplier is better. I have a hardtrail. It gives me the jist of what I need with lightness. Prior posts give good advice on the components and price break for HT vs full susp.

On fit, DO NOT buy it too big. I *thought* I needed a bigger bike than I did. So glad I have the smaller now. When you are actually in a true mtb trail situation trying to get your bike through stuff, if it's too much bike to wrestle, that can be a very bad thing.

I'd shop all the stores. Looking around gives you all the options.

On climbing... part of your original post question... my vote is light. If it's trail or road, extra weight of any kind / any place just hurts after a while.

[alleyoop]

Also, if you can, rent a like-bike to the ones you are considering and take it on a trail for a day. I know that I get really nervous when I am shopping and can't really get a feel for the bike while being watched. It was TOTALLY worth it to me to rent 3 bikes on 3 consecutive weekends and take them on the same trails to find out what kind I really wanted. At $30 a day, it was an expensive investigation, but saved me from buying a bike that I wouldn't have been happy with.

Apart from that, a hardtail is a great choice, but only TITS (time in the saddle) will tell. :)

[Irulan]

Also, if you can, rent a like-bike to the ones you are considering and take it on a trail for a day. I know that I get really nervous when I am shopping and can't really get a feel for the bike while being watched. It was TOTALLY worth it to me to rent 3 bikes on 3 consecutive weekends and take them on the same trails to find out what kind I really wanted. At $30 a day, it was an expensive investigation, but saved me from buying a bike that I wouldn't have been happy with.

Apart from that, a hardtail is a great choice, but only TITS (time in the saddle) will tell. :)


Wow you are lucky to have had shops that rent out nice mtbs in your area!!! I could hardly find my size to testride when I got my first one, much less rent. I've done the best with trading bikes on rides with my riding sistahs.


Back to the OP -- why the weight on climbability of the bike? That is just one component of your ride. Even the most diehard XC rider goes down as much as they go up. :D

[alleyoop]

Yes, I am lucky! We have a great shop that rents good bikes... and I am 5'8" and proportioned more like a man, so fitting isn't such an issue. I know that most aren't as lucky.

[Gertruda]

Hello all!

I went to other bike shop - I tried this weekend Trek 4300 WSD - I liked it... Surprisingly it was not so light (if I compare it with K2 Ridgeline). Still, very nice. Will check a store with Specialized ones this week or weekend. Then will decide...

And funny thing - they do have a lifetime basic tune-ups; and REI has only first and second tune-ups (after 100-200 miles) free.

[vinbek]

If you are going to be climbing alot and in the mountains, I would recommend a hard tail. I seem to have more control with a hard tail and less slipping from the rear wheel. If you are riding off road - I think its a must to have front suspension or your arms will feel like you've got stinging bees all over them when you stop riding those bumpy roads! Center of gravity is key when riding over varied terrain. You want to feel comfortable off the seat as well as on it for shifting your weight. I am only on my second mountain bike in 25 years! I had a Raleigh and now have a Cannondale. I bought the Raleigh as "new old stock". I don't put that many miles on my mtb anymore. More of a roadie. Bekki

[Gertruda]

Finally I got Specialized Myka Comp HT 09.

Looking forward to getting started... :o

[fatbottomedgurl]

Congratulations! Have fun, and ride safe!

[Tabby]

How 'bout two more cents worth ! I was a total newbie hadn't been on a bike in 20 years. I found the more people I asked suggestions from I got more replies that only ended up overloading my feeble mind. I posted on local mtb forum for woman (with experience) teach me to ride. Fortunately, this woman had more than one mtb (we're same size). She took me out, showed me, watched me, let me ride her different bikes and she made a suggestion for Trek 6000 (not a brand she had) based on how I rode and she continues to teach me new/more advanced skills. For me, I decided to just take the advice of this one woman to learn my basic skill set, trust her guidance til I felt comfortable and I could make informed decisions on my own with base knowledge.

Like I said just my two cents worth. Good luck and let us know how things end up.

[CCinSC]

Hello all!

I went to other bike shop - I tried this weekend Trek 4300 WSD - I liked it... Surprisingly it was not so light (if I compare it with K2 Ridgeline). Still, very nice. Will check a store with Specialized ones this week or weekend. Then will decide...

And funny thing - they do have a lifetime basic tune-ups; and REI has only first and second tune-ups (after 100-200 miles) free.

I have the Trek 4300 and LOVE it! And I'm fortunate enough to have a great LBS that takes great care of me. They love to answer any questions, no matter how novice. :)