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Brandi
11-04-2008, 07:02 PM
I am happy with the outcome of this years elections! Modest happy dance!

crazycanuck
11-04-2008, 07:26 PM
Are we allowed to discuss this here?

If so, Congrats to the US for an interesting new president! That was an interesting campaign :eek: but it seemed to go on forever.

Can the world breathe a sigh of relief now? *aaaaaahhhhhhh* *phew*

Cataboo
11-04-2008, 07:37 PM
it possibly should be in non-cycling related - but if you mean politics in general on here, I think that a site that's mature enough to discuss IUD's and the various other things on here, that we should be able to have a politics discussion maturely.

That being said, I'm pretty happy that we/the American public sent a pretty strong message to the republican party... and I hope that they respond to it.

shootingstar
11-04-2008, 07:40 PM
Please don't be offended..but the first thing we did tonight, we watched the Jon Stewart live comedy show tonight that satirized the election. ...with their intermittent announcements of real state -by-state election results. I enjoyed the show.

If Canadians aren't allowed to have an opinion because we shouldn't/couldn't know something about U.S. national politics...then isn't watching a comedy show where Americans laugh at themselves..the best thing...for Canucks?

OK, ok, ok.... I'm saying the wrong stuff...:o

Disbelief or excitement about Obama...reminds me of when our Canadian Prime Minister Pierre Elliot Trudeau first got elected...A highly intellectual but coldly analytical Quebecois lawyer that infuriated people at times, yet did get the respect of many Canadians...regardless of their political allegiances. It was evidenced by the amount of homage paid to memory of him when he died.

Triskeliongirl
11-04-2008, 07:42 PM
Yay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:):):)

snapdragen
11-04-2008, 07:43 PM
Yeah, politics is a no-no on TE. Celebrate tonight though -- I'll leave it up to Jeff and Susan to decide. Keep it in this thread m'kay?


Historical night my friends, feels pretty damn awesome.

Triskeliongirl
11-04-2008, 07:49 PM
I checked the FAQ and I don't see it as a no-no. I don't get it. We discuss everything else here, so why should politics be taboo.

BUT TONITE IS FOR CELEBRATION FOR ALL OF US.

Tuckervill
11-04-2008, 07:54 PM
I'm happy, too!

A local city had something on the ballot about making pot a "low priority" for local police. I think it's going to pass.

We also have a sad anti-gay marriage initiative, which eliminates unmarried couples (gay or straight) from being foster parents. I think it's going to pass, and I'm sad about that.

What was your weird issue on the ballot?

Karen

Biciclista
11-04-2008, 08:02 PM
yahooo!! cartwheels! handstands! pushups!!!

Zen
11-04-2008, 08:25 PM
yes we can :)

Cataboo
11-04-2008, 08:28 PM
I'm happy, too!

A local city had something on the ballot about making pot a "low priority" for local police. I think it's going to pass.

We also have a sad anti-gay marriage initiative, which eliminates unmarried couples (gay or straight) from being foster parents. I think it's going to pass, and I'm sad about that.

What was your weird issue on the ballot?

Karen



Only weird thing was slot machines in Maryland. Which isn't really all that weird.

Blueberry
11-04-2008, 08:29 PM
Yay!!! Almost 100% for me (a few local elections didn't go quite as I would have liked), but I'LL TAKE IT. YAHOO!!!!

Of course, my state is one that still hasn't been called (5 hours after poll closing) on the Presidential. Not that it matters:)

denny
11-04-2008, 08:47 PM
Happy and still stunned about the results. At least the 3 hour wait to vote was worth it.

kelownagirl
11-04-2008, 09:12 PM
Well, I cried watching his speech tonight,and I generally pay ZERO attention to TV and/or American politics. You are very lucky to be led by a man like Obama and the rest of the world is breathing a collective sigh of relief.

VeloVT
11-04-2008, 09:17 PM
Very, very happy.

Popoki_Nui
11-04-2008, 09:47 PM
Congratulations, America!!! :)

PamNY
11-04-2008, 10:30 PM
I went up to Rockefeller Center tonight. I though it would be fun to be in a crowd, and it was. A US map was on the ice rink, and states were colored red or blue as results came in.

A very low tech bar chart was on the building -- fabric draped from a scaffold was raised as each candidate gained points, and a very low-tech display of the totals was changed by human hands. It was riveting in a way that glitzy stuff could never match.

People who arrived early got a US map along with a blue and red marker, and folks earnestly colored in their individual maps.

I took my scooter instead of the bike and rode it home (couple of miles) and the feel on the streets was priceless. There was happy yelling, hugs, smiles and conversations with strangers. I was glad I had wheels and could skip the subway.

Pam

mary9761
11-05-2008, 02:26 AM
Yay!!! Almost 100% for me (a few local elections didn't go quite as I would have liked), but I'LL TAKE IT. YAHOO!!!!

Of course, my state is one that still hasn't been called (5 hours after poll closing) on the Presidential. Not that it matters:)

Same here, Indiana has never been a battlefield state in my lifetime memory and has voted a democrat into the white house for the first time since 1964! Indiana wasn't called until after I finally went to bed last night many hours after Obama made his speech. YES WE CAN!

7rider
11-05-2008, 02:48 AM
Here's a cycling-related tie-in.....

One of the guys on our LBS Sunday morning ride, and the Saturday morning N2 ride is a broadcaster with a local television station. I thought it was PBS, but no...it's a local network. Well....there he was last night...on t.v.....giving the news! :eek: How strange! I'm so used to seeing this guy on his bike (he rides a nice Cervelo) and in bike clothes, not sitting behind a desk with a suit and tie on!

sfa
11-05-2008, 03:00 AM
What a great night it was (really worth the political hangover I have this morning!). McCain's speech was gracious and eloquent, and Obama's made me cry. Even my 9 year old DD was riveted.

Sarah

Pax
11-05-2008, 03:25 AM
YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am so happy right now!!

OakLeaf
11-05-2008, 03:30 AM
:::treading very, very lightly....:::

The reason I cried for an hour last night is not because "we won" - precisely the opposite.

It's because Americans in this small but very public way have rejected the politics of hate and division. It's because we said that we no longer want every day to be about "we won" and "you lost."

I'm well aware that hate and division are alive and well, and were the victor or appear headed for victory in several statewide races :(:(. I'm also well aware that as President... well, never mind.

But for what last night as a whole says about America - I'm very proud. It's nothing short of breathtaking, really. And I can let go of at least a little bit of the recent despair.

Crankin
11-05-2008, 03:39 AM
Well, here in the bluest of blue states, we are all pretty happy, if exhausted.
We had 3 ballot initiatives. They got a lot of interest during the election. The first was to abolish the income tax; it lost 70-30. The second was to decriminalize one ounce or less of marijuana; it passed by a 65% margin. The other one that passed was the one to abolish dog racing. I won't talk about that one.

I am supposed to go on a 35 mile ride today and I don't want to...

OakLeaf
11-05-2008, 03:50 AM
We also had five statewide ballot initiatives.
(1) - made it harder to bring future initiatives to the ballot - passed
(2) - bond issue for environmental reconstruction - passed
(3) - the only one that might be considered strange - to enshrine in the state Constitution existing common law concerning riparian and underground water rights. I honestly didn't understand the issues very thoroughly, and I don't think very many people did, but mainly looked to the endorsements of organizations that I'm familiar with. Passed.
(5) - [yes that's right, there was no 4, as it was removed from the ballot] - the so-called "payday lending" initiative, to limit the interest rate on short-term loans to 28%. Despite an advertising barrage by the loan shark industry, passed handily, though by a slightly smaller margin than the previous four issues.
(6) - to build a casino. There were actually casino interests on both sides of this one - support from the company that had already lined up contracts for the monopoly casino, and opposition from other players in the business. Defeated.

Tri Girl
11-05-2008, 04:16 AM
I cried when California was officially announced and he was named President-Elect. I've never been emotional about politics, but this one made me so happy!!!!!

"Yes We Can" now needs to become "Yes We Will"!!!!:D

I'm proud of ALL Americans who turned out to vote. With a regular voter turnout at a pathetic 54%, this election spoke volumes about people no longer wanting to be complacent in our electoral process. Go America (and I'm sure the rest of the world is just as glad it's all over). ;)

Presto
11-05-2008, 04:29 AM
I went to bed anxiously, hanging on to a last shred of optimism. I woke up in despair. And just can't stop crying.

I'm not married any more.

My soul said I was married. My family said I was married. My minister said I was married. My church said I was married. The State of California said I was married. Even our photographs said I was married.

Andrea
11-05-2008, 04:36 AM
We also have a sad anti-gay marriage initiative, which eliminates unmarried couples (gay or straight) from being foster parents. I think it's going to pass, and I'm sad about that.


I was just wondering... how are they going to enforce this? What if you're single (gay or straight) and you adopt a child legally... then start having a relationship with someone WITHOUT being married (:eek:)

It seemed like, even though they say "all unmarried couples" that the bill initiative was very focused on gay people.

Andrea
11-05-2008, 04:38 AM
I went to bed anxiously, hanging on to a last shred of optimism. I woke up in despair. And just can't stop crying.

I'm not married any more.

My soul said I was married. My family said I was married. My minister said I was married. My church said I was married. The State of California said I was married. Even our photographs said I was married.

I'm really sorry to hear that. So many people that can't stop trying to impose their beliefs on to others. Hopefully we can move forward in the future :(

Tuckervill
11-05-2008, 04:41 AM
I'm sorry, Presto. It's a sad day for foster children in Arkansas, as well, as the bigots passed an amendment preventing single people (read=gay) from serving as foster or adoptive parents. The ballot should have had two choices:

NO
YES, I SIGN UP TO BE A FOSTER PARENT

Karen

OakLeaf
11-05-2008, 04:42 AM
((((((((Presto, & all others in that position)))))))

I don't mean to discount by one iota the significance of what happened. It's a devastating loss to myself as an outsider to that struggle both geographically and personally; I can only imagine what it must mean to you.

But: Your soul still says you're married. Nothing the state or hateful voters can do can change that. Your family, I hope, will still say you're married. Your minister, your church, your photographs still say you're married. The State has a great deal of power indeed, but it can't dictate to your soul or your deity.

-Oak, married in our souls, in the eyes of both our families, and before our "higher power," but (by choice in solidarity with those who cannot choose) not in the eyes of our State.

Tuckervill
11-05-2008, 04:43 AM
I was just wondering... how are they going to enforce this? What if you're single (gay or straight) and you adopt a child legally... then start having a relationship with someone WITHOUT being married (:eek:)

It seemed like, even though they say "all unmarried couples" that the bill initiative was very focused on gay people.

It was. That was the stated agenda. :(

Karen

Possegal
11-05-2008, 05:01 AM
I was in Prince William County VA the night befor the election, to see what now is the last speech made by SENATOR Barack Obama. Rumor has it there were 90-100,000 of us there.

I am proud that now the notion that 'yes you can grow up to be the president' seems a lot more reachable to a large portion of our population. I'm glad I could be a part of it.

I thought both candidates made wonderful speeches last night, and I hope the spirit of that continues for President-elect Obama's term.

And I'm sorry to hear of so many initiatives that passed that just legalize hate and discrimination, and I'm especially sorry for those of you that are personally affected, though one could argue that it affects us all. Maybe this administration can do something to change some attitudes. I'm sure hoping!

Brandi
11-05-2008, 06:18 AM
I'm happy, too!

A local city had something on the ballot about making pot a "low priority" for local police. I think it's going to pass.

We also have a sad anti-gay marriage initiative, which eliminates unmarried couples (gay or straight) from being foster parents. I think it's going to pass, and I'm sad about that.

What was your weird issue on the ballot?

Karen
We have prop 8 banning gay marriage. I think it is going to pass as well. they are counting every vote. It makes me sad because I have very dear friends who just want to be happy and they are sooo ment to be together and I can see why being married would be important to them.Sigh!

alpinerabbit
11-05-2008, 06:28 AM
I hope I am wrong, but I am terrified. Probably I wouldn't care so much except for Andy. The first steps will be to suppress any opposition, then the civilian security force, then who knows.

vickie

As a watcher from across the pond, I think there is little reason to be afraid, just as there is little reason to believe this equals the second coming and everything will be just peachy.

It would not have been much different the other way round.
There's no complete control of congress for the dems, there are obligations and loose ends.

I am very sorry about the individual decision that cut into people's lives.

Brandi
11-05-2008, 06:33 AM
I was hoping not to see anything like this on my safe haven, TE.
Just so you know we are not all celebrating. I hope I am wrong, but I am terrified. Probably I wouldn't care so much except for Andy. The first steps will be to suppress any opposition, then the civilian security force, then who knows.
I couldn't even read this whole thread. I hope I am wrong.
vickie
I am truely sorry things did not work out in your favor. For some of us we were in that boat for 8 years. But I always give a chance to whoever is in office and soemtimes it works and other's it doesn't. MCcain ran a really hard race and a race that will never be forgotten. They are both very good men. But we need change. I hope your fears don't happen. Sincerly.

smilingcat
11-05-2008, 06:42 AM
I had my radio on last night, bit old fashioned yes but thats the next bet thing when you don't have a TV.

I listened to Sen. McCain's concession speech. I thought it was wonderful. He sounded like a real statesman. Grand, honorable, respectful. Had he run his campaign like his speech last night, I think Sen. McCain could have won.

We voted against hate, we voted against divisiveness. Just as Sen. McCain said in concession speech, let the healing begin.

Yes I cried when Sen. Obama was declared the winner, not because Sen. McCain lost, but rather Sen. Obama won, the nation won and hopefully we will have less hate... Yes I voted for Sen. Obama. And I cried when I heard Sen. McCain's grateful honest speech. There was no hate. I wish Sen. McCain well in his twilight years and his battle ahead with his cancer.

----------------
The joy of "yes we can" is tempered with passage of prop 8 here in California. I am very very disappointed with its passage. But there will come a time when prop 8 will be overturned. Time marches forward and I hope our social values really do move toward all men are created equal.

Smilingcat

jobob
11-05-2008, 06:47 AM
Someone had posted:

"I was hoping not to see anything like this on my safe haven, TE.
Just so you know we are not all celebrating. I hope I am wrong, but I am terrified. Probably I wouldn't care so much except for Andy. The first steps will be to suppress any opposition, then the civilian security force, then who knows.
I couldn't even read this whole thread. I hope I am wrong."

People, this is precisely why I have objected so strenuously to political and religious discussions on this forum

Believe it or not, there are people on this forum who do not happen to share the political and/or religious beliefs of (what appears to be) the vocal majority of posters on this forum.

I think everyone's beliefs and convictions should be respected here.

And when people who don't believe as the apparent vocal majority encounter threads like this, they must be very intimidated and might even feel that they do not "belong" on TE.

Which is sad and unnecessary.

This, people, is why I stand firmly on my opinion that politics and religion do not belong here.

Brandi
11-05-2008, 06:54 AM
Someone had posted:

"I was hoping not to see anything like this on my safe haven, TE.
Just so you know we are not all celebrating. I hope I am wrong, but I am terrified. Probably I wouldn't care so much except for Andy. The first steps will be to suppress any opposition, then the civilian security force, then who knows.
I couldn't even read this whole thread. I hope I am wrong."

People, this is precisely why I have objected so strenuously to political and religious discussions on this forum

Believe it or not, there are people on this forum who do not happen to share the political and/or religious beliefs of (what appears to be) the vocal majority of posters on this forum.

I think everyone's beliefs and convictions should be respected here.

And when people who don't believe as the apparent vocal majority encounter threads like this, they must be very intimidated and might even feel that they do not "belong" on TE.

Which is sad and unnecessary.

This, people, is why I stand firmly on my opinion that politics and religion do not belong here.
I would normally agree except for the fact that this is an exceptional election for both sides And being calm rational adults i don't see any harm in celebrating. But I am sorry if this hurts anyone feelings. There are a lot of hurt people out there right now and I feel for them. Sorry again if this upsets anyone. We can stop now if that would make people feel better.

salsabike
11-05-2008, 07:02 AM
Someone had posted:

"I was hoping not to see anything like this on my safe haven, TE.
Just so you know we are not all celebrating. I hope I am wrong, but I am terrified. Probably I wouldn't care so much except for Andy. The first steps will be to suppress any opposition, then the civilian security force, then who knows.
I couldn't even read this whole thread. I hope I am wrong."

People, this is precisely why I have objected so strenuously to political and religious discussions on this forum

Believe it or not, there are people on this forum who do not happen to share the political and/or religious beliefs of (what appears to be) the vocal majority of posters on this forum.

I think everyone's beliefs and convictions should be respected here.

And when people who don't believe as the apparent vocal majority encounter threads like this, they must be very intimidated and might even feel that they do not "belong" on TE.

Which is sad and unnecessary.

This, people, is why I stand firmly on my opinion that politics and religion do not belong here.

YES. I think this is exactly right. There are other places for political discussions. I would really like EVERYONE on TE to feel welcome here.

jobob
11-05-2008, 07:07 AM
Oh, and thank you to those who have posted here and on various other threads the little snarks about whether or not it's "allowed" to discuss politics on this forum - you know who you are. :rolleyes:

Listen gang, I'm just trying to respect the views of everyone here. And to keep the intimidation factor down as much as possible.

And I do want to applaud you all for keeping it very civil and respectful throughout this long and sometimes nasty campaign (snarkly little asides and avatars and sig lines notwithstanding). Some forums have not been so understanding.

So cheers, everyone ! :)

snapdragen
11-05-2008, 07:08 AM
Which is why I asked that everything remain in this thread. I'll leave it to Susan and Jeff to decide if it stays or goes; but last night was too big to not let everyone express their feelings.

I spent most of the night on another forum, we ended up with over 400 posts in one thread -- all civil, all respecting each others beliefs and choices. Lots of good natured ribbing, and joy from both sides. (I haven't looked at it today, who knows if it's still a pleasant read)


Someone had posted:

"I was hoping not to see anything like this on my safe haven, TE.
Just so you know we are not all celebrating. I hope I am wrong, but I am terrified. Probably I wouldn't care so much except for Andy. The first steps will be to suppress any opposition, then the civilian security force, then who knows.
I couldn't even read this whole thread. I hope I am wrong."

People, this is precisely why I have objected so strenuously to political and religious discussions on this forum

Believe it or not, there are people on this forum who do not happen to share the political and/or religious beliefs of (what appears to be) the vocal majority of posters on this forum.

I think everyone's beliefs and convictions should be respected here.

And when people who don't believe as the apparent vocal majority encounter threads like this, they must be very intimidated and might even feel that they do not "belong" on TE.

Which is sad and unnecessary.

This, people, is why I stand firmly on my opinion that politics and religion do not belong here.

Blueberry
11-05-2008, 07:08 AM
I debated whether to post this, and I hope others will read it in the helpful spirit in which it was intended.

There are lots and lots of threads and responses to threads on TE that I find offensive. I put them on ignore. There are some users I routinely find either offensive or to make too many personal attacks. I put them on ignore too. I'm in the minority on a lot of issues on TE - I either ignore them, or read them without letting them get under my skin. And no, I don't always feel like I "belong" here.

If folks don't want religion and politics on TE, that's fine. I think it's a fair choice. But I don't think it's appropriate to be selective about it and I think that would ban a lot of threads that others don't seem to have found offensive (just as an example - the recent tattoo thread -- it's an awesome tat, I wasn't offended by the thread, but the content of the post is predominately religious).

Respectfully,

CA

ETA - I'm not sure if I'm one of the people considered "snarky" or not, but yep - I got a little frustrated when I was attacked for complaining about TV ads (in a non-partisan way), and then others posted at length about political phone calls, etc. without being criticized. After that, I tried to keep my comments circumspect enough to not offend anyone. If by doing that, I offended, I'm sorry. However, the issue goes back to not selectively enforcing whatever the "rules" are.

Brandi
11-05-2008, 07:18 AM
I just wanted to celebrate for a little bit this historical moment in our history. I am done I am not posting on this thread anymore. I want all to feel welcome I really do.

OakLeaf
11-05-2008, 07:33 AM
Can I just add one other thing, by way of a very small consolation?

Our President-elect is the son of two people who could not have legally married in many US states when he was born.

I am the daughter of two people who could not legally marry in the state where my mother's home church was located.

Yes it's extremely sad to see those same traditions - and many of the same laws - being revived to discriminate against another group of people. But there is hope, I must believe it.

VeloVT
11-05-2008, 07:40 AM
I'm truly sorry if I have offended anyone. I don't know if anyone has me on ignore; I hope not, that would make me really sad. I mean well.

However, I can't imagine how difficult it must be to survive in the world every day if you are intimidated by someone having a different view than you. As adults, I think we should be able to accept that we will have differences.

And as for this political discussion -- I think it's perfectly fine for anyone to disagree with Obama on policy issues (reasonable, smart people disagree all of the time), and also fine for anyone to express a wish that McCain had won. Of course there will be disagreement on what is good for this country. However, to suggest that Obama is a fascist who will turn the USA into a police state ("The first steps will be to suppress any opposition, then the civilian security force, then who knows") is not substantive political disagreement, it looks dangerously close to baseless hate-mongering. If you can offer a convincing justification for that view, though, you might be able to get me to change my mind. That's the thing about political discussions -- every view is admissable, but every view is also fair game. You have to be willing to accept those terms not only for others' views, but also for your own. Maybe that IS a form of discussion that TE cannot handle -- and I guess that's OK -- but I also think we all need to have thicker skins sometimes.



Originally posted by Jobob:
Oh, and thank you to those who have posted here and on various other threads the little snarks about whether or not it's "allowed" to discuss politics on this forum - you know who you are. :rolleyes:

you're welcome, Jobob :p!

kermit
11-05-2008, 07:47 AM
Optimism is a beautiful thing. It is hard with the recent economy and war to be hopeful about anything. If people are happy, thats good. I just hope that nothing changes for the worse, and as he himself said "there will be setbacks" and that will stink. The country is definitely going to change.......

Cataboo
11-05-2008, 07:50 AM
I think most of us could have a more heated argument over whether steel, titanium, carbon, or aluminum frames are a better ride.

Aggie_Ama
11-05-2008, 07:58 AM
I think most of us could have a more heated argument over whether steel, titanium, carbon, or aluminum frames are a better ride.

And it gets almost bloody if you want to debate triple, double, compact double. And I have seen it get nasty in the cycling world over 105 vs. Ultegra or Shimano vs. Campy. :p

Norse
11-05-2008, 08:00 AM
Carbon. Definitely carbon. :)

Aggie_Ama
11-05-2008, 08:01 AM
WSD a marketing hype? Everyone run!!

VeloVT
11-05-2008, 08:01 AM
I personally feel intimidated at this forum because I don't happen to worship at the steel-bikes-and-brooks-saddles church :D.

And sometimes I feel like I just don't belong here, because merino wool, regardless of what anyone says to the contrary, makes me itchy...

oxysback
11-05-2008, 08:04 AM
I realize I'm in the minority on this board when I say that Barak Obama was not my choice for president, but he still will be my president. I refuse to treat our new president-elect the same way others have treated the current president. Those that voted against Obama should set a higher standard of civility and citizenship than those that didn't vote for Bush in the last election. This doesn't mean I'll ignore different principles, but it does mean that I'll give him a chance. I hope he rises to the occasion.

Aggie_Ama
11-05-2008, 08:04 AM
I personally feel intimidated at this forum because I don't happed to worship at the steel-bikes-and-brooks-saddles church :D.

And sometimes I feel like I just don't belong here, because merino wool, regardless of what anyone says to the contrary, makes me itchy...

Don't worry there is an ignore button for you. :p:D;):p

Aggie_Ama
11-05-2008, 08:08 AM
I realize I'm in the minority on this board when I say that Barak Obama was not my choice for president, but he still will be my president. I refuse to treat our new president-elect the same way others have treated the current president. Those that voted against Obama should set a higher standard of civility and citizenship than those that didn't vote for Bush in the last election. This doesn't mean I'll ignore different principles, but it does mean that I'll give him a chance. I hope he rises to the occasion.

Nicely put. Disagree respectfully the man is still our elected leader for the next four years. You may not have voted for them but you were given the freedom to vote against him and will have it again in 2012.

badgercat
11-05-2008, 08:22 AM
I realize I'm in the minority on this board when I say that Barak Obama was not my choice for president, but he still will be my president. I refuse to treat our new president-elect the same way others have treated the current president. Those that voted against Obama should set a higher standard of civility and citizenship than those that didn't vote for Bush in the last election. This doesn't mean I'll ignore different principles, but it does mean that I'll give him a chance. I hope he rises to the occasion.

Well said. :) While I did vote for Obama, I definitely agree with your sentiments. I hope that even if one doesn't agree with Obama's politics, one can at least respect that he's a smart man and good politician who wants to do right by his country. I believed the same thing about McCain, and had he been elected, I still would have still gotten behind him and been ready to move forward as a nation.

I'm happy that Obama won, but I remain cautiously optimistic about where things will go in the next four years.

And those of you who have been personally affected by marriage/adoption amendments, my deepest sympathies are with you. My boyfriend and I have lived in Illinois, Wisconsin (passed a ban in '06), and now Arizona (voted down a ban in '06). We had often talked about how if we got married, it would be here in AZ, because we could feel better about getting married in a state that had voted down a constitutional gay-marriage and civil-unions ban. But then Prop 102 passed yesterday. I think this new measure passed because it was "just" about "marriage," and... blah. I just don't see any reason for something like that to belong in a constitution.

ETA: I realize that my concerns about where to get married are relatively minor, considering that many people can't get married to the person they love at all, or have been married and now fear that the state will dissolve it. I guess I'm just trying to illustrate that LGBT rights are not something I take lightly, or write off because it "doesn't affect me." I worked long and hard to fight Wisconsin's ban in '06, and donated money to the fight against Prop 102 in AZ, and unfortunately... well, we all know how those turned out now. :(

SouthernBelle
11-05-2008, 08:24 AM
To be honest, when I clicked on this thread earlier this morning, I knew trouble was coming. There is no rule against discussing politics here, but we have had a general agreement against it, as well as religion, as trouble usually ensues.

And it did.

I'm amazed that anyone is surprised by that.

BTW, I did vote for Obama and am certainly pleased by the outcome. But I don't expect everyone to agree or be happy about it.

Cataboo
11-05-2008, 08:34 AM
I can't say that I've noticed that trouble actually occurred. Someone who was unhappy with Obama being president got to express their opinions on it - Noone attacked her on it or called them names. And vice versa, no McCain supporter's attacked an Obama supporter.

A dissenting opinion is not trouble. It's good that there's more than one opinion. And I know all of the people who don't agree about steel, wool, carbon, doubles vs. triples don't feel marginalized or brooks saddles don't feel marginalized and leave because of all the people that love them on here - and the same should apply to politics and religion.

mary9761
11-05-2008, 08:38 AM
I went to bed anxiously, hanging on to a last shred of optimism. I woke up in despair. And just can't stop crying.

I'm not married any more.

My soul said I was married. My family said I was married. My minister said I was married. My church said I was married. The State of California said I was married. Even our photographs said I was married.

I'm so sorry {{{{{Presto}}}}}.. The country has come so far but has so much further to go...

kermit
11-05-2008, 08:42 AM
We all love and respect each other and our country, thats what makes America so strong. After 9-11 thousands of people pulled together and supported each other, the flag was everywhere. Obama won't wear an amercan flag pin. The country he now represents. Problem? Yeah, I know, ignore button. He is my president and I will respect him. I hope he respects us.
Now if you will excuse me, I need to go find a new mountain bike on ebay. I'll post photos when I get it.

snapdragen
11-05-2008, 08:47 AM
look again kermit, I believe he had a flag pin on last night. I do not wear a flag pin. That does not mean I do not love my country.

mary9761
11-05-2008, 08:50 AM
I think most of us could have a more heated argument over whether steel, titanium, carbon, or aluminum frames are a better ride.

And then there's always the obligatory indoor/outdoor mile debates.. :rolleyes: It's about time for those to start on the forums :p

tulip
11-05-2008, 09:13 AM
whoo-hoo!

kermit
11-05-2008, 09:19 AM
I have been up close with the man during his campaign. I can assure you that the pin he wore is his own creation of a circle with red and blue, not the american flag. The same symbol on his plane.

uforgot
11-05-2008, 09:19 AM
I think most of us could have a more heated argument over whether steel, titanium, carbon, or aluminum frames are a better ride.

I was also wondering if it's okay to ride with my ipod?:D

Cataboo
11-05-2008, 09:21 AM
I was also wondering if it's okay to ride with my ipod?:D

That's fine if I can borrow your bike and ride without a helmet.

tulip
11-05-2008, 09:22 AM
I have been up close with the man during his campaign. I can assure you that the pin he wore is his own creation of a circle with red and blue, not the american flag. The same symbol on his plane.


I just can't let this be. So sorry, but what the &^#*# does a &^%$# pin have to do with anything?

I'm outta here.

kermit
11-05-2008, 09:23 AM
Oh, I don't know the symbol of our country? You notice all the other candidates wear one. Its a sign of respect, and yeah I'm outta here too. I'm gonna go run with scissors.

Zen
11-05-2008, 09:25 AM
Wait up, Tulip. I'm coming with you ;)

SadieKate
11-05-2008, 09:36 AM
To be honest, when I clicked on this thread earlier this morning, I knew trouble was coming. There is no rule against discussing politics here, but we have had a general agreement against it, as well as religion, as trouble usually ensues.

And it did.And there hasn’t been more trouble because there are members who are remaining silent through apprehension or sensitivity. They’ve learned that discussion of politics and religion beyond the boundaries of cycling eventually results in angry arguments with no opinions changed. The threads become “overly arrogant, confrontational, disruptive or promoting a war of words (flame war)”, as quoted from the forum use policy.

If today someone celebrated the (probable) passage of California Prop 8, there are TE members who would immediately pounce, vociferously crying “gay bashing.” We’ve had contentious discussions in the past where members attempted to provide relationship counseling with a conservative Christian view point and were treated very poorly . . . and vice versa. This forum has a demonstrable history of threads going astray where politics and religion are concerned. I can only imagine what would happen if we had a thread on abortion. This forum generally does not welcome all viewpoints, simply the timid and/or diplomatic don’t post or leave the forum. They’ve been well taught.

I interpret the rules of the forum to mean I have freedom of speech on cycling and other sports/fitness topics within the bounds of good Netiquette. Other topics are only a privilege and, out of respect for the forum host and my fellow TE members, should not stray into confrontational areas.

I will simply end with the repeatable words my Vietnam Vet husband (who was not treated well by many in this country on his return, as if the war was his fault) said about those who wear flag pins: “It’s pin-on patriotism. It is not worth the paper it is printed on. It has nothing to do with whether you are patriotic and most of the people who wear them never were part of the military or fought for our country.” Thank goodness we have a country where you can choose not to wear a pin and not have your citizenship revoked.

kermit
11-05-2008, 09:43 AM
Point taken. Everything here could be an argument and should not be. This is a biking forum afterall. Although everyone is entitled to their opinion, some are more acceptable than others. We will see what the next four year brings. I hope it helps us all.

smilingcat
11-05-2008, 09:44 AM
I will simply end with the repeatable words my Vietnam Vet husband (who was not treated well by many in this country on his return, as if the war was his fault) said about those who wear flag pins: “It’s pin-on patriotism. It is not worth the paper it is printed on. It has nothing to do with whether you are patriotic and most of the people who wear them never were part of the military or fought for our country.” Thank goodness we have a country where you can choose not to wear a pin and not have your citizenship revoked.

Dear Sadiekate, Thank you,

To those who had pinned their hopes on Sen. Mc Cain, I have no desire to to put salt into your wounds. I only offer hope and well wishes that our country can begin the healing process. For any person, to reach the highest of office, they can't be that stupid. Give them a chance just as I give Sen. Obama a chance to imrprove our country for the better. We all need to work together. We all live under the same roof to speak of.

sincerely to all,
Smilingcat

Andrea
11-05-2008, 09:47 AM
That's fine if I can borrow your bike and ride without a helmet.

While you're at it- Strength training will make you a faster cyclist. Squats and deadlifts... lots of them.

kermit
11-05-2008, 09:49 AM
Hey Andrea, hows the fizik saddle working out? Very nice knifework, you must cook!

SadieKate
11-05-2008, 09:49 AM
We will see what the next four year brings. I hope it helps us all.Me, too!

By the way, with a little googling you'll see that both McCain and Obama did and did not wear flag pins at different times. McCain didn't wear one at the convention speech nor at one of the debates when Obama was wearing one. Does that make 'em both flip-floppers?:p

Andrea
11-05-2008, 09:52 AM
Hey Andrea, hows the fizik saddle working out? Very nice knifework, you must cook!

It's kinda "meh"

I might end up putting it on my CX bike since it feels more substantial than the Ruby that's on there. I want to try the SI SLR lady one more time to make sure I don't like it better. I think my Verge chamois may have a little to do with the chafing as well... but I won't be getting new shorts until team training camp in December!

Oh yeah... and yes, I cook! I am pretty handy w/a chef knife!

katluvr
11-05-2008, 09:54 AM
I have been very amused reading this thread as I finish my lunch.
Like other threads I "click on" those that seem to be something I want to read or be part of. Since I voted for Obama, I thought...hmmmmm this is a thread I am interested in.
I did not click on many others. It is all about choices. You chose to read or skip to another post.

I do not talk politics w/ my family. I do not START these discussions with others until I know it is safe. I came here, felt safe. If this was a discussion about McCain or a Obama bashing...I would not visit, I would not provoke.

Kuddos to the one who started this thread (sorry, can't see that now). Thank you for a thread I wanted to visit and read. Thank you for a space to share the enjoy the feeling of a great occasion. If feels great to me. And celebrating, quietly and respectfully, is what this is about.

By the way...I won't be getting married in this stinkin state, either! Oh well, who needs a state's permission to be w/ the one they love!

Now that I am done enjoying this conversation..I'll move on. Next topic...food, workout, weight gain, HOW DULL!;)

jobob
11-05-2008, 09:54 AM
Ice cream all around! :cool:

(I went to the Ben & Jerry's factory a couple of days ago. The heck with Disneyland, the B&J's Factory to me is the Happiest Place on Earth.)

Cataboo
11-05-2008, 10:02 AM
I should probably just shut up...

But I think part of what lost McCain the election is that in a time that when the country is fighting 2 wars, our banking system is teetering, I'd say we're not safer than after Sept 11th, and our civil liberties are in tatters... Someone mentioned earlier how Obama would squash any opposition, we'd have a civilian security force, etc... And tell me, how is that different than the liberties that they have already been taken with our constitution and homeland security.... (Okay, this is going to lead me off on a tangent)

But anyways, in light of the world & bleak situation, the McCain campaign concentrated on negative campaigning having to do with Obama's religion, Obama's preacher, Obama's tentative connection to Ayers as a terrorist, Obama's supporting sex education for kindergartners, and whether or not someone wears a flag pin. And on him being an elitist... When did it become bad to have competent smart leaders in the US? And really... None of that is relevant to the problems that are facing America... and I'm glad that America has sent that message to the Republican party that they don't want to be treated like children, that they want competent politicians, and they want to hear about the issues.

I'd say I was a republican, but when I go through all of the things that I associate the republican party with and compare that to the current republican party... There's nothing in common between the two anymore.

I can remember when George Bush (the senior) ran and Bob Dole ran... Noone had to prove they were american by wearing pins, and noone had to prove their christianity or belief in god constantly. I find it one of the greatest tragedies of this race the constant implications that Obama was a muslim or had too many associations with Muslims and that somehow just being or knowing muslims is a bad thing. And really, America is better than that. America should be better than that. I'm not muslim or Christian, and I've voted for someone who's not my religion in every election in my life... And that's never made a difference to me, I vote on the issues and on who's most competent to do the job. Not on whether they're the same religion as I am or whether or not I want to get a beer with them.

And I hope this election shifts the focus of our electorate towards the issues and what really matters as opposed to all of the nonsense that this last one seemed to be focused upon.

Veronica
11-05-2008, 10:09 AM
Two of the sweetest, most repsectful kids in my class this year are Muslims.

They don't say the Pledge of Allegiance, but they do stand and show much more respect than some of my other kids.

Veronica

Biciclista
11-05-2008, 10:13 AM
I guess I'm just a dreamer, but I'm hoping that this election marks the END of negative, vile, lying, hate campaigning.

This campaign was so negative that phone bank people, who are usually barely getting by (and need their jobs!), walk out on the jobs so to get the evil message out, they had to resort to robocalling to do it.

And telling people they could vote BY PHONE or better yet, wait until Wednesday! This is reprehensible. And I hope that by losing, this may NEVER happen again.

Susan Otcenas
11-05-2008, 10:17 AM
So, after a bit of thought, I've moved this thread to the way off topic category.

My preference would be that folks did not talk politics or religion on the forums. But, I'm not one that likes to stifle discussion, and I know that I enjoy talking with my cycling friends about lots of things that don't involve cycling.

Sooooo, I won't shut down this thread, but I WILL ask folks to limit their political discussion to this way off topic category, and to refrain from bring up politics in cycling-related threads.

Thanks,

Susan

Geonz
11-05-2008, 10:26 AM
I personally feel intimidated at this forum because I don't happen to worship at the steel-bikes-and-brooks-saddles church :D.

And sometimes I feel like I just don't belong here, because merino wool, regardless of what anyone says to the contrary, makes me itchy...

Me 2 Me 2!!!!!

Okay, I do have lots of steel bikes :D

RoadRaven
11-05-2008, 10:58 AM
Thankyou Susan for allowing this thread to continue

For someone on the other side of the world, it is very interesting and enlightening to be able to follow personal thoughts on something that sends huge political and social messages globally

(Just think, just a few years before Obama was born, black Americans did not have the right to bus seats [Rosa Parks, 1955] - Obama's parents probably aspired that their son COULD sit where he wanted to - but I bet they never dreamed he would sit in the WhiteHouse)

I am very impressed with the graciousness of both McCain and Obama. I believe America is fortunate to have a leader, and an opposition leader who both appear to hold the people of such a huge and diverse country close to their hearts.

I trust Obama has many friends inside the political machine. More than being at risk from racial bigits, I believe his greatest personal threat will be from the war-lords, as Obama seems to want to withdraw from war-zones like Iraq... Thats "big business" he is talking about inhibiting, and those money-makers are very very powerful people.

lph
11-05-2008, 11:19 AM
Me 2 Me 2!!!!!

Okay, I do have lots of steel bikes :D

Me three. AND I ride with an ipod. Heck, I'll just put myself on ignore. ;)

Back on topic: I've appreciated this discussion, and the mostly balanced and considerate views presented. Personally I'm very impressed by the sheer turnout this election has shown. The USA has a big effect on the rest of us out here, and I believe that the world really needs an America with concerned citizens who believe in making a difference.

But I can see how easy it is, especially if you feel surrounded by "soulmates", to get carried away and say something offensive to people with a different political viewpoint. And the purpose of TE is surely to just enjoy what we do have in common, no matter what views we have otherwise. So I do feel that in general politics should be, not taboo, but not a big focus on TE and treated gently, as the forum main page points out.

Brandi
11-05-2008, 11:23 AM
Wait up, Tulip. I'm coming with you ;)Me too!

kermit
11-05-2008, 11:36 AM
I must apologize if I offended anyone. That was not my intent. Differences have arisen in this election that have never been seen or interpreted before. The Bush and Reagan days are over. Hopefully for the best. I also know many peaceful muslim people and I believe that the President is one of them. He brings many firsts to this country, and the traditions (wearing an American flag pin for example) are changing. I come from old school values(my father was straight out of the 40's) and I see good and bad scenarious with everything. I am in a state that sucks, politically (all crooks) and socially. Have a house in Georgia I can't wait to move to. My open mindedness has been jaded by putting bad people in jail for 17 years. All excuses yes, but I meant no offense to my cycling pals. Oh and I ride with an ipod, one ear only.

Cataboo
11-05-2008, 11:40 AM
Two of the sweetest, most repsectful kids in my class this year are Muslims.

They don't say the Pledge of Allegiance, but they do stand and show much more respect than some of my other kids.

Veronica

I said the pledge allegiance every day in school growing up.

One of the more embarrassing moments of my elementary school career was at some point in 5th grade I got picked to go to the principal's office to lead the pledge of allegiance over the PA system.

So I went... And I remembered... I pledge allegiance to the flag and ... erm. erm.

The principal had to help me finish it. Despite it being written on the sign near the flag in every classroom, and me having recited it every morning. Stick hand over heart, say I pledge allegiance to the flag and mumbled the rest for the 5 mins or whatever it was and zoned out.

I can't say if I actually know it now. I definitely don't know the words to the Star Spangled banner.

And I don't wear a flag pin and never have...

Does that make me not a patriot? I can still tear up if I hear the star spangled banner sung especially well, I'm willing to pay more taxes to get us out of the mess that this country is in, and I donate stuff to the troops... And having travelled a lot, in spite of all the things that frustrate me in the US, there's no other country that I want to permanently live.

I also don't wear live armstrong bracelets and I don't wear breast cancer ribbons. Does that mean I don't support cancer victims? Does that mean I'm unsympathetic to their plight? No, it means that I prefer to actually have my actions mean something as opposed to what I wear. (I work in cancer research)

Okay, I'm gonna shut up and get back to work 'cause I'm beating a dead point.

And Kermit, I definitely wasn't offended and hope I wasn't offensive in response.

SadieKate
11-05-2008, 11:47 AM
I also know many peaceful muslim people and I believe that the President is one of them. He brings many firsts to this country . . .

Being Muslim is NOT one of them. Please check your facts, especially if you participate in law enforcement.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp

snopes.com is a highly respected organization and should be a credible source. If you need more, just try google.

Biciclista
11-05-2008, 11:50 AM
I also know many peaceful muslim people and I believe that the President is one of them.

GOOD GRIEF!! OBAMA IS NOT MUSLIM!!

kermit
11-05-2008, 11:56 AM
Does it matter?

SadieKate
11-05-2008, 11:58 AM
Does it matter?

No, it does not matter to me what Obama's religious beliefs are. What matters is the repetition of falsehoods when there are people who do care.

Is this the same attitude you use in your work?

kermit
11-05-2008, 12:04 PM
When a man is born in another country and his upbringing is broadcast with several variations you take everything with a grain of salt. I believe the unbelievable. Lets just see what he does now that he got the job. And as far as my work attitude, I'm the one out protecting you.

Cataboo
11-05-2008, 12:07 PM
Is Hawaii another country?

SadieKate
11-05-2008, 12:08 PM
When a man is born in another country . . . Since when is Hawaii another country?

I'll repeat the link and provide another.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

kermit
11-05-2008, 12:10 PM
Raised, my error.

Aggie_Ama
11-05-2008, 12:10 PM
Obama was born in Hawaii, I thought it was part of USA? :confused: McCain was born in Panama but I am pretty sure if you are born on a US Base you are natural born. I don't know.

My Mammaw was born in Arizona before it was a state, we had a lively discussion about whether she was indeed American. Then my mom remembered her parents were born in Texas in 1896 and 1900, they were citizens of the USA and so was Mammaw by lineage. ;)

ETA-Oh no my mom was wrong, Mammaw was born in January 19, 1918 but Arizona was a state as of February 14, 1912. Whew, she is an American through and through. She can run for president!

Possegal
11-05-2008, 12:10 PM
I personally feel intimidated at this forum because I don't happen to worship at the steel-bikes-and-brooks-saddles church :D.

And sometimes I feel like I just don't belong here, because merino wool, regardless of what anyone says to the contrary, makes me itchy...

Imagine how I feel, I ride a Trek and have no issue with my saddle. From this board, I begin to think my butt doesn't have a clue what it is doing! ;)

Cataboo
11-05-2008, 12:14 PM
Imagine how I feel, I ride a Trek and have no issue with my saddle. From this board, I begin to think my butt doesn't have a clue what it is doing! ;)

I personally am in awe of you and your happy hoohah.

I bought my one bike online and the others used off craigslist.

I didn't support my local bike shop.

I feel guilty, but the shop is expensive.

I know I could have budgeted so that I could have afforded to shop locally to pay more.

One of you will forgive me, I hope?

kermit
11-05-2008, 12:19 PM
This is quite a lively discussion!

SadieKate
11-05-2008, 12:35 PM
Raised, my error.Yeah, we should look closely at McCain since as a child he lived outside the US as his father's position required.:confused:

katluvr
11-05-2008, 12:40 PM
Well I am about to leave "work" for the day. This has been a great thread to read. I think of this as the real world...all the discussion threads here at TE.
We are not all alike. We don't all think alike. Our training goals, plans, etc are different. My average speed is not your average speed. And not all of us are into grueling long distance.

Thanks for having a place I could celebrate, if even just a tiny bit. I still find it very odd on how profoundly this election affected me...but not just me...this year's election really got people thinking, talking, excited and invested.

Someone said it both here & in some verbal conversations I have had....now we move on, now we look how we all can move forward with this and make things happen. That is the hope. I have it. I wish we all could feel that way. But isn't that why we are all individuals!:)

Good afternoon/night to all! Happy trails...biking, running, hiking, walking, etc!

BleeckerSt_Girl
11-05-2008, 12:44 PM
I personally feel intimidated at this forum because I don't happen to worship at the steel-bikes-and-brooks-saddles church :D.
And sometimes I feel like I just don't belong here, because merino wool, regardless of what anyone says to the contrary, makes me itchy...


Imagine how I feel, I ride a Trek and have no issue with my saddle. From this board, I begin to think my butt doesn't have a clue what it is doing! ;)


I love steel bikes, Brooks saddles, Trek bikes (we have one in our family), and merino wool. But I also think other kinds of bikes are great, and I love my lycra and 'performance' apparel as well as my merino wool. And whatever saddle is comfy for any particular person is GOOD, regardless of brand. Everyone has different needs and preferences.
The majority of women on TE don't ride steel bikes, don't wear merino wool when biking, and don't have any interest in Brooks saddles. ;)

Biciclista
11-05-2008, 12:51 PM
The majority of women on TE don't ride steel bikes, don't wear merino wool when biking, and don't have any interest in Brooks saddles.

Yeah, I usually feel like a dork for riding on a Brooks saddle; albiet a proud dork :p

If you can ride the saddle your bike came with YOU ARE REALLY FORTUNATE!!

VeloVT
11-05-2008, 01:00 PM
I love steel bikes, Brooks saddles, Trek bikes (we have one in our family), and merino wool. But I also think other kinds of bikes are great, and I love my lycra and 'performance' apparel as well as my merino wool. And whatever saddle is comfy for any particular person is GOOD, regardless of brand. Everyone has different needs and preferences.
The majority of women on TE don't ride steel bikes, don't wear merino wool when biking, and don't have any interest in Brooks saddles.

I hope everyone realizes that I was absolutely joking and I am not intimidated by, nor do I resent, the people who express their affection for steel, Brooks and wool. I even think it's a nice aesthetic.

It was my "problem child with authority issues" way of responding to Jobob's rather strident proclamation that if a person expresses any view that might be contrary to some view that another person holds, the latter person "MUST BE VERY INTIMIDATED."

I'm quite happy that other people have found bikes and saddles and clothing that makes them happy, even if it is not what makes me happy. :)

And sorry Jobob, I don't mean to make this a personal attack. I guess the 72-point extra bold font kind of set me off. And I stayed up too late last night and am feeling cranky.

Blueberry
11-05-2008, 01:00 PM
If you can ride the saddle your bike came with YOU ARE REALLY FORTUNATE!!

As is your wallet (as those of us who have tried many can attest):)

Possegal
11-05-2008, 01:09 PM
If you can ride the saddle your bike came with YOU ARE REALLY FORTUNATE!!


but what if i just don't KNOW that it could be better. :) you all make me think i should go out and try 100 saddles. i know i know nothing about bikes, but i have to believe i would know if my butt didn't like my saddle, no? ;)

sgtiger
11-05-2008, 01:09 PM
I'm with those that don't see why we as adults cannot have adult conversions be they potentially divisive (and we have proved that almost anything can be controversial - quick, favorite ice cream flavor: chocolate, vanilla, or other:D;):p) or not. I think we need to keep in mind that one person's proclamation of her (or his) view is not an attack on another who has an opposing view. They are just very passionate about their views and I, for one, can respect that whether I agree with them or not. I have come to value these open discussions because I have learned a great deal through them. I consider myself a pretty open-minded person who tries to see an issue from many possible angles but my fellow TE'ers have opened my eyes to a few possibilities that I had not even considered. Thank-you. Yes, I've even changed my mine on a couple of things as a result of it. But even if I have kept my original views, I been made more aware and sensitive to the reasoning behind those that oppose mine.

For the citizens of the U.S.A., whether or not you voted for our president elect, let us not forget that our civic duty goes beyond the voting booth. There is more that we can do to be involved in our democratic process, so that everyone's voice can be heard. If you don't like a policy, speak out against it - write your local leaders, become involved in civic groups, start an petition/initiative, run for a political office, etc.

For the community at large, this election and financial crisis has proved that we are truly a global community. We cannot forget that as one person's actions can affect others, one nation's actions can also affect the world at large. Even though not every person on this planet could have voted in this election, it does not mean that your opinions are not valid. I take them into consideration because they serve as a check on how our nation is doing.

Long live TE! You all rock!

Soo Son

jobob
11-05-2008, 01:12 PM
And sorry Jobob, I don't mean to make this a personal attack. I guess the 72-point extra bold font kind of set me off. And I stayed up too late last night and am feeling cranky.

No worries, Liza, I've been pretty cranky myself (*snort* ya think??? :rolleyes:). I've been watching way too many political news shows in the last few weeks. I'm so glad the election is over, I think I was was developing an ulcer.

Sooo, would you prefer Chunky Monkey, Chocolate Chip Cookie Dough, New York SuperFudge Chunk, or other? :cool:

Cataboo
11-05-2008, 01:13 PM
but what if i just don't KNOW that it could be better. :) you all make me think i should go out and try 100 saddles. i know i know nothing about bikes, but i have to believe i would know if my butt didn't like my saddle, no? ;)


You may suffer from a lack of innervation of your butt - and your butt could not like the saddle and you just don't realize.

However, I've noticed that when my bottom is not pleased with a saddle, it's very vocal about it.

sgtiger
11-05-2008, 01:23 PM
[QUOTE=Aggie_Ama;377897...I am pretty sure if you are born on a US Base you are natural born. I don't know.
[/QUOTE]

Yes, correct. Also, I do believe one can be a natural born citizen if one is born overseas as long as at least one of the parents is a U.S. citizen. I vaguely remember there having to be paper work filled our for the child within a certain time frame though - age five:confused: maybe. It's been a long time since I've studied such matters, so my memory is a bit fuzzy.

sg "not a natural born citizen but proudly naturalized in Nov '95:cool:" tiger :)

BleeckerSt_Girl
11-05-2008, 01:25 PM
I hope everyone realizes that I was absolutely joking and I am not intimidated by, nor do I resent, the people who express their affection for steel, Brooks and wool. I even think it's a nice aesthetic......
...I'm quite happy that other people have found bikes and saddles and clothing that makes them happy, even if it is not what makes me happy. :)

Understood. :) ;)

Possegal
11-05-2008, 01:33 PM
Yes, correct. I do believe one can be a natural born citizen if one is born overseas as long as at least one of the parents is a U.S. citizen. I vaguely remember there having to be paper work filled our for the child within a certain time frame though - age five:confused: maybe. It's been a long time since I've studied such matters, so my memory is a bit fuzzy.

sg "not a natural born citizen but proudly naturalized in Nov '95:cool:" tiger :)

if born out of the country to at least one parent of US citizenship, you are a US citizen, no matter when you do the paperwork. two of the 6 kids in my family were born elsewhere and while it was a HUGE hassle to get the US passports when they did that as adults, they were still US citizens. but yeah, way easier if you just file the right paperwork at the time. my poor brother was having to get paperwork and info from so long ago that very few folks could even remember. when did the rents move back to the US? (only dad would remember and he was dead). my poor brother, all that work for the passport and he's yet to use it!

i am betting when US military are abroad and have a kid, the military is more helpful with them about getting the right paperwork. my sibs were born to a US citizen dad serving in another country's military - so no one mentioned that to my dad. :)

possegal, natural born US citizen but with a really messed up family ;)

crazycanuck
11-05-2008, 02:09 PM
I'm not surprised at some of the comments here :rolleyes:

One day Americans might actually get along. One day the whole world.
Be happy that you're able to vote. Would you like to live in Zimbabwe?
Just remember don't believe everything you read or hear, keep an open brain & it won't fall out.

In the meantime, i'll just go and swear at the headwinds, rocks on my uphill mtn bike rides and people with dogs not on lead..

Irulan
11-05-2008, 03:11 PM
No, it does not matter to me what Obama's religious beliefs are. What matters is the repetition of falsehoods when there are people who do care.

Is this the same attitude you use in your work?

to repeat:
What matters is the repetition of falsehoods

emily_in_nc
11-05-2008, 04:14 PM
I'm late to this thread as (I confess) I've been too busy checking news and political sites and watching MSNBC in the past week to even read TE (blasphemy, I know!!!!) :D

I just wanted to say that I noticed as I watched footage of many celebrations all over the country for Obama that what struck me the most is that there was NO VIOLENCE. People were partying together, laughing, crying, and cheering, and they were UNITED -- people of every color. Call me an idealist, but I found that really, really beautiful. Even though I am white, I felt so happy for African-Americans as I could imagine how sweet this night was for them. If I were elated, how must they feel? :p

Over the course of this campaign, I have been so incredibly encouraged to see how Obama has motivated and inspired people to volunteer, to vote, to get involved. I personally have never cared more about any election than this one, and when the announced Obama as the President-Elect last night at 11pm EST, I wept. I have more hope for this country than I have ever had, even in this time of economic difficulties.

All that said, I thought that McCain's concession speech was sincere and eloquent, and I appreciate it very much.

Hopefully as a nation those who didn't "win" will heal. I think, ultimately, we all won with this historic choice. Wait and see. YES WE CAN!

-Emily

P.S. Susan, thanks for allowing this thread to continue. :)

crazycanuck
11-05-2008, 07:44 PM
One more thing..This is one of those events I thought I'd never see in my lifetime.

For example, I never thought i'd see Nelson Mandela freed nor the end of Aparthied. The Berlin Wall. Rwanda.

It's (i'll try and insert as many adjectives!) interesting, overwhelming, cool, amazing, inspiring, awesome, frightening & a whole bunch of more adjectives I can't describe really.

Soo-I love your comment
For the community at large, this election and financial crisis has proved that we are truly a global community. We cannot forget that as one person's actions can affect others, one nation's actions can also affect the world at large. Even though not every person on this planet could have voted in this election, it does not mean that your opinions are not valid. I take them into consideration because they serve as a check on how our nation is doing.

Crankin
11-06-2008, 03:16 AM
I was surprised to see this thread still here...

I hated the Brooks saddle.

I love my Shak, but most of the other Ibex I've tried is itchy!

I have a carbon AND a steel bike.

I would never ride with my I Pod and I yell at people who don't wear helmets.

7rider
11-06-2008, 04:47 AM
Sooo, would you prefer Chunky Monkey, Chocolate Chip Cookie Dough, New York SuperFudge Chunk, or other? :cool:

Mint chocolate chip, thank you. :cool:

I never put my be-hind on a Brooks saddle.

And steel may be real, but ti is fly! :p

Aggie_Ama
11-06-2008, 04:54 AM
i am betting when US military are abroad and have a kid, the military is more helpful with them about getting the right paperwork. my sibs were born to a US citizen dad serving in another country's military - so no one mentioned that to my dad. :)

possegal, natural born US citizen but with a really messed up family ;)

Oh good thing I still live in the neighboring county to where I was born. Took me 15 minutes to get my husband's birth certificate from the same county. ;)

Trek420
11-07-2008, 06:02 AM
I just can't let this be. So sorry, but what the &^#*# does a &^%$# pin have to do with anything?

I'm outta here.

wait, wait, hope you don't leave :(

Velobambina
11-08-2008, 04:39 AM
And steel may be real, but ti is fly! :p

1++++ Particularly SEVEN ti. ;)