Wedding in Great Britain. questions!!

[mimitabby]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1081355/The-100-000-white-wedding-16-year-old-girl-lives-caravan.html



read the article. Explain to me about travellers and living in caravans and how come this girl didn't go to school and how come her mom is wearing a bra to the wedding. and what is a "big white" wedding?

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/10/28/article-1081355-02461D12000005DC-654_468x714.jpg

[Pax]

What is a caravan?

[Possegal]

travelers are here in the US too. here is the wikipedia listing on them, for what that is worth. :)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Traveller

i had seen this article a couple days ago and cracked up. that is one stylish wedding they have going there. CLASS-Y! ;) nice to see mom and daughter with matching boob jobs!

Edited to remove stereotyping

[mimitabby]

so they are gypsies? an undermined persecuted ethnic group?

[SadieKate]

Isn't a caravan in Britain what we Amuricans would call a trailer, RV or mobile home? And it's possible she was home schooled which is legal in Britain. It isn't clear whether the article (or that publication) would have investigated to that extent.

[SadieKate]

travelers are here in the US too. they are con-artists. here is the wikipedia listing on them, for what that is worth. :)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_TravellerYeah, I wondered. It fits the profile.

[SadieKate]

so they are gypsies? an undermined persecuted ethnic group?Technically, gpsies are Romanies, a different ethnic group.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roma_people

[mimitabby]

hoping someone in G.B. will read this. thanks for your answers.

[mayanorange]

DH is british, so I'm up on the vernacular. A caravan is usually a towed RV, but can mean a regular has-its-own-engine RV. Travellers are what Americans tend to call gypsies (even when they are non-Romanian) who don't live anywhere for long and usually outside of the law (from not paying taxes level to con-man level). If you've seen the movie Snatch, Brad Pitt was a caravan traveller. And the TV show The Riches was based around the same culture.

As for that wedding, it was just freaky, even for the Brits.

[Flur]

Weird...

[mimitabby]

So Mayan, where exactly do these people live? do they have Caravan parks, like our motorhome parks? do they live in Walmart parking lots?

and what is a "big white" wedding?

[mayanorange]

There are caravan parks like we have. I'm not sure if ASDA (the UK Wal-Mart) lets them park there, but RVs are about 1/2 the size they are here mostly. The travellers I don't think use those options tho- they set up in a field somewhere. They must pay off a farmer, used abandoned property, or something like that, since they themselves don't own land.

ETA- the caravan parks are more like KOA RV parks- there aren't very many (if any) 'trailer parks' as in the trailers that sit in the same spot for 20 years type trailers.

[mayanorange]

Oh, and 'big white wedding' isn't really a slang, they're just alluding to a large traditional wedding. And I think the reason it's news is that it's strange to see these people who usually live rather hand to mouth throwing such a huge extravagant event. Along the same lines as the not paying taxes and/or stealing thing, they tend to be somewhat anarchistic, which usually includes anti- commercial type things- ie, they tend to barter instead of shell out whopping amounts on (tasteless) wedding dresses.

[Bruno28]

Whoa.....

Travelling people in the UK are a recognised minority under anti-discrimination laws. Like every other group - they are a mixture of good and bad.

Here's an informative briefing from the Scottish parliament web site.


http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/business/research/pdf_res_notes/rn00-76.pdf

[mimitabby]

wow, thanks Bruno, I'm reading it! (I knew you'd know!)

[Bruno28]

BTW - The Daily Mail is a right wing comic. This story and the reaction it's intended to provoke is right up its street.

[mimitabby]

I thought the other stories were a bit odd..
that explains it.

[SouthernBelle]

We have big, white weddings here too. That isn't a bit of British slang. On the net they even get abbreviated to BWWs. You've probably been to one. Hopefully not as tacky as that one though. They don't have to be tacky.

[mayanorange]

I apologize for giving the sterotypical answer. I realize there are plenty of normal, law abiding people that live this way. We had some travellers near our cottage in upstate NY who lived in a teepee. They were a very nice family. Couldn't pay me to live in a teepee year round in upstate, but to each his own.

[Bruno28]

And thanks to mimi for posting - I've been looking for wedding dress ideas :D :D

[Possegal]

No need to stop at the wedding dress, see here for other great ideas of bridesmaid dresses. Implants optional, maybe.

http://www.heatworld.com/Article/7790/Oh.+My.+God.+You+HAVE+to+see+these+wedding+photos…

[mayanorange]

Oh my god, the flower girls!! Yikes. :eek:

[Grog]

I assume it's the guy's mother in a turquoise full "mother-of-the-groom" suit.

She doesn't seem all that thrilled........

[snapdragen]

Never mind.

[martinkap]

They are gipsy! Judging them based on our definition of classy is as wrong as it is for instance to judge native americans for what they wear based on our culture. It is a DIFFERENT culture. They are nomads. They don't go to classical schools. They have their own language, culture and customs. They live differently. They don't always conform to laws of the state/society they travel through, they typically cause troubles but that still does not mean that we should be so CONDESCENDING in our judgment as you are!

Sorry, I don't like gypsies but I also don't like people who are too judgmental.

Martina

[SadieKate]

they typically cause troubles but that still does not mean that we should be so CONDESCENDING in our judgment as you are!

Sorry, I don't like gypsies but I also don't like people who are too judgmental.

MartinaI'm completely confused about the contradictory statements you have just made. Don't be judgmental but "they typically cause troubles"? Ok . . . . . :confused:

[snapdragen]

never mind

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

martin, there is no way, no place on earth that dress or the mother of the bride's dress would be considered good taste. Perhaps on stage in Vegas, or in Madonna's latest show..

I would feel the same way whether they were Romanies, gypsies, my next door neighbors or the Queen of England. The dresses are tacky.

I see Martin's point. When you say YOU would feel the dresses were tacky no matter who wore them- well again that would be just YOUR definition of tacky or 'good taste', based on the culture you were raised in. Other cultures have completely different standards of taste. I imagine there are still some tribal cultures where brides (and grooms) are bare breasted and many people we know would consider that tacky as well. Other cultures cover themselves up way more than we do and would consider our typical bridal gowns to be extremely vulgar.

[Trek420]

Sorry, I don't like gypsies but I also don't like people who are too judgmental.

Martina

I'm not confused by that statement at all. Loooong ago I was attacked on the street by a ... well, he was a Hispanic male. Threw me to the ground, pinned me, things did not look good for our hero :(.

I got outa the pin :), pinned him down :) and then help arrived in the form of two guys and a cop.

I have Hispanic friends, even family from South and Central America, Spain, Mexico ... I like them a lot :D. But after the incident I struggled.

Each time I'd see someone who looked anything like this guy I had a gut reaction. It took a long time to overcome. I was raised to appreciate different cultures, to not just tolerate differences but really get out there and enjoy them.

I was taught from way back that I should not judge by appearances.

In a funny way tt was kind of like socializing a dog :p. I saw what was happening to me, didn't like it and said "I'm going to search out good experiences with people of this culture and overcome this" and I did. :D

As for the dress, welllllllll :rolleyes: ;) it's not my style, I could never get away with wearing white ;) :rolleyes: :p but if it makes the couple happy :)

[SadieKate]

And what is not judgmental about a blanket statement of distaste for an entire ethnic/cultural group, the gypsies?

Whether you agree with snap's statement or not, martin's statement is pejorative about ALL gypsies including those he/she has not seen or met, and therefore condemns all in her/his eyes. Snap's comment, and the other posters' I might add, were only about specific people based on their perceptions of those individuals from photos, people who are dressed for a wedding in a western culture for a wedding at a western church. Sorry, but martin's statement is downright nasty criticizing an entire culture based on their heritage, not on their individual merits.

I'm very disappointed that you people don't seem to get the discriminatory nature of his/her remark.

[Bruno28]

I think it's the difference between 'being' something and 'choosing' something. You have to accept people's ethnicity, sexual orientation etc. You don't have to like their politics.

I'm Scottish. I like men in skirts - as long as they are tartan. :cool:

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

And what is not judgmental about a blanket statement of distaste for an entire ethnic/cultural group, the gypsies?
Whether you agree with snap's statement or not, martin's statement is pejorative about ALL gypsies including those he/she has not seen or met, and therefore condemns all in her/his eyes. Snap's comment, and the other posters' I might add, were only about specific people based on their perceptions of those individuals from photos, people who are dressed for a wedding in a western culture for a wedding at a western church. Sorry, but martin's statement is downright nasty criticizing an entire culture based on their heritage, not on their individual merits.
I'm very disappointed that you people don't seem to get the discriminatory nature of his/her remark.

I think there are judgemental elements in BOTH statements.
I was responding to one point that I felt was interesting.
For any of us to claim we are not being judgemental is naive. We are all judgemental to some extent or another. We all have prejudices. As humans, we each naturally judge others based on our own learned perceptions, experiences, and learned values. What we do with those judgements/prejudices is something else again.

I have my own perceptions of 'gypsies'/'travelers' based on my personal upbringing and learned information (whether false or true). I happen to think those dresses are trashy looking, but I also realize that their culture is very different from mine and that they likely feel their dresses are classy and attractive. So what? Everyone's different. You won't find anything in this world that everyone approves of.
I'm not disappointed in 'you people' concerning the discussion here- I think it's fascinating and makes us all really think about how we see others. That's healthy. :)

[snapdragen]

I'm very disappointed that you people don't seem to get the discriminatory nature of his/her remark.

And this surprises you how?

//I'm outta here

[Biciclista]

If you go to the link that Bruno so kindly shared with us at nearly the beginning of this thread you can download a very informative tome that kind of indicates what it's like to be a "traveller" in Great Britain. They aren't all Roms (who don't speak English as their first language) there are some who apparently are just as british (or Scottish) as everyone else.
They are harassed and discriminated against all over (the world) different parts of Great Britain have slightly different attitudes towards them, in some places they are chased out of town immediately, in others, they are permitted to stay on private property designated for them. There are all kinds of social services apparently ready to help with their children's health and education. It's the same old story; they're different, so they are hated.
When I saw the article that started this thread, I had no idea that they were anything except normal people from great britain, because the code words "Caravan" and "Traveller" do not have the same significance for me, a citizen of the US of A.
I thank everyone for adding to my education. I still think the mother of the bride is inappropriate. but that's my opinion. (Looks like the mother of the groom agrees with me!!)

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Interesting, Mimi.
I knew what "Travelers" were/are because of my interest in music.
Margaret Barry (born 1917) was an Irish 'Traveler' (also known as a "Tinker") who was one of the great traveling balladeers of her time. She was tall and imposing and had a powerful soulful voice. She often accompanied herself on her banjo, going from town to town with her husband and singing for a living in taverns and sometimes in homes for private parties. I had often listened to recordings of her ballad singing and banjo playing. Very haunting and beautiful.
Margaret Barry (http://electricscotland.allcelticmusic.com/artists/Margaret%20Barry.html) (click on the 'biography' tab) Anyone who loves traditional Irish singing would do well to get a cd of her work.
Bicycle content:
Folklorist Alan Lomax promoted Ms. Barry for a time, and in one of his early interviews with her he noted that her old battered banjo had very rusty strings on it. He speculated that it must be hard to obtain banjo strings in rural Ireland, and asked her how she obtained new strings when her old ones broke. She answered: "Bicycle cables."

[Biciclista]

He speculated that it must be hard to obtain banjo strings in rural Ireland, and asked her how she obtained new strings when her old ones broke. She answered: "Bicycle cables."

wow!

[ClockworkOrange]

I would give my personal view but that might invite a lot of criticism, so, for those that are interested, check out this link, it relates to the county that I live in the UK, then you will get the gist of how most people feel about travellers. :rolleyes:

http://www.dorsetforyou.com/index.jsp?articleid=2572

Then for more of a chuckle, check this link out for yet more photos: http://tackyweddings.com/2008/10/30/outer-limits-tacky-150k-wedding-for-uk-16-year-old-girl-ugliest-dress-ever/

Like any other minority, there are good and bad. Where I work I have come across a lot of youngsters whose background has been a 'traveller'. Most of them are extremely clean and tidy, perhaps this comes from living in such a small area. I have also realised how very close they are, any trouble and all the family appears from nowhere!

Some children in this situation have a home tutor, generally the local council pay for this.

These days big white weddings really are not so common, most youngsters would sooner put the money towards a deposit on a house or flat.

Finally, as for the Mother wearing a bra to the wedding.......nope, cannot answer that one.

Interesting thread Mimi.

Clock

[Biciclista]

cool website Clock, I love the way "officials" answer questions, surprisingly less dry in aspect than similar stuff here.

wow, learning so much. Never knew what "fly-tipping" was before, and i never heard of a CHAV before either!!

[ClockworkOrange]

wow, learning so much. Never knew what "fly-tipping" was before, and i never heard of a CHAV before either!!


This 'Chav Nativity' really does sum up the description of a 'chav' The word has not been around that long, a couple of years maybe. I work with 16-24 year olds that are homeless and even some of those ridicule the chavs. However, the youngsters that do dress and act that way, are quite proud of it but are very involved in anti-social behaviour. On a 1-1 are no different to any other kid, just out to enjoy life and not worry about tomorrow or much else!


http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y272/Missbe/ChavNativityinnit.jpg

Hope this amuses you..........innit!

Clock