Performance Bicycle and women specific bikes

[denny]

Does anyone have any experience in taking up the Peformance customer satisfaction guarrantee? I'm still a bit skeptical about the fit and feel of my bike (Scattante 560 with chiple chain rings). The store manager said to just bring the bike back and get one that I think may work for me. They carry only 2 women specific bikes in the Fuji line. I'm kind of surprised they are so limited- so my question is:

1. Is it really noticable to get a women's specific design? I still feel very stretched out over my bike despite adjusting the stem length. I'm 5'8.5 and the top tube is 54cm.

2. Does going from a triple to double chain ring reduce my chances of learning to the "take" the hills sooner rather than later,especially for a wobbly newbie like me? I've found shifting on the triple downright irritating at times as I can't figure out if I'm really in my 2nd or 3rd ring?

3. Do they trade the entire bike or just the frame?

It just sounds too good to be true. I'm just waiting for the extra fine print on this one.:confused:

[Cataboo]

I've never taken them up on it - but I don't think you should have a problem. I can't tell you if they'll swap the components as well, but I'm assuming they will.

The return policy on their website is pretty clear you can return whenever you want for whatever reason you want. I'm not sure whether the in store policy is the same:

Performance guarantees satisfaction with every product we sell. If an item does not meet your expectation, please follow these procedures to insure a prompt replacement, refund, or credit:


As for the double vs. triple - there's a thread on that in another section on here. I don't think it's any easier to learn on a double. If you don't know what chainring that you're in on the front, it's easy enough to look down on your feet and you'll know whether or not you're in your middle or granny gear. If you're riding a lot of hills and steep ones, I'd probably recommend that you keep a triple, unless you've got strong legs. Doubles are lighter and possibly shift faster, big disadvantage is that you have less gears for hills - which you can compensate for by putting a bigger casette in the back or using a compact double. (again, there's a thread on here somewhere that's really informative about all of this)

WSD's - I don't think are necessary, but I haven't ever bought one for a road bike. I'm 5'1 - short legs, short torso. I don't have the classic longer legs and short torso that the WSD is supposedly made for. If you have that body type, maybe you'd enjoy a WSD. But only one of my bikes is a WSD, and I don't find it a problem. I'd just test ride any of the bikes at performance that you're interested in and see what feels right.

You can try putting a higher angle stem on the scattante and see if it moves the handlebars even closer to you - are you riding in the drops or just keeping your hands on top of the bar? If you're riding in the drops, getting shallow reach handlebars might help. I have a scattante non-women's frame, the XRL ss carbon or something like that - 48 cm, and I actually just put a longer stem on it because I felt it was too short. So maybe you could try that frame if they have it? 54 cms doesn't sound like a very long top tube for your height - my other road bike has a 519 mm top tube, theoretical (if level) of 529 mm and I'm fairly upright on that bike.

[kermit]

You and I are very close in stature. That being said, I do not have a womens specific bike. Went for a Specialized roubaix, size 54, shorter stem and the big difference for me was changing the bars. I put the carbon ruby bars on my bike, they are womens specific. Big difference in reach and comfort. Look into the bar swap, that might be all you need.

[OakLeaf]

WSD doesn't have to do with your height per se, it has to do with your torso and arm length as a proportion of your height. For women that tends to be shorter than for men. Some women can ride men's bikes quite comfortably, others can't.

What's the top tube length of the bikes you're thinking about? Is 54 cm the sloping top tube length or the effective (horizontal) top tube length, and how does that compare to the bikes you're looking at? Can you test ride the bike you're thinking about? What's the frame size of the bike you're on - is it possible it's too big all around? How long is the stem you have on now, and what's the rise - are you at the point where the bike will be too twitchy if you go any shorter?

No answers, just things to think about... it's hard enough to get a fit exactly right in the shop, it can't be done on the Internet...

[echidna]

Hi -

Weighing in as a former PBS employee - we would take the bike back, but we'd do everything we could imagine to make the Scattante work for you, first. The Scattante line is a "house" brand - which means that the overhead of purchasing and marketing it is low, but the profit margin is pretty good even when we sell at a great price (translation: the store can afford to invest time and effort to make you delighted with this bike if that will help).

Caveat on the Fujis - the frame geometry on the Fuji WSD is EXACTLY the same as their "unisex" counterparts. The ONLY differences are in the build (narrower bars, shorter stem, short-throw levers, different saddle...) and the paint scheme. They don't exactly tell you this, but if you read the frame geometries closely, that's the way it is. So - you'd be trading for a "Womens Specific" bike that's not all that...women specific.

Assuming you did well on the deal, the Scattante was probably a screaming bargain, so it may be worth fiddling with to dial the fit, especially since the option that you see in front of you would be to trade for a bike that's essentially similar, just pre-built with more friendly components

On the other hand, your bike should rock your world. And if it doesn't, it doesn't. Whether that's a customer satisfaction issue for you, or not, is totally up to you.

[TxDoc]

1. Is it really noticable to get a women's specific design?

I guess my main question is... were you fitted on a WSD? or did the store just assume that you needed a WSD? Not every woman does well with WSD models.
My recommendation would be to go back to the store and ask for a professional fitting service so that you can go home with the bicycle that is right for you.

[denny]

Ok, so I went to Performance Bike with a friend who owns a LBS. He advised me to get the Scattante 660, double ring with much nicer components. As the former PBS employee on the board predicted, Performance tried several suggestions to "fix" my current bike. I told them I wanted the double rings, 54cm, carbon stays, etc. So they agreed to trade my Scattante 550 to the 560 model and with the higher price tag $1,339. I refinanced the difference in price of $550.

I went home happy that Performance made the trade fairly seamless despite my almost 3 hour wait at the store. So- I take the bike to my friend's shop who immediately notices the following.
1. The chain was used.
2.They took off 1 of the chainrings on my 560 and put it on the 660.
3. The components of the 660 seemed to be what they had on my 560.
4. The tires were obviously worn out from more than test rides.
In short they seemed to swap out used parts from another bike on the new. :eek:

My friend was really ticked off on my behalf as he feels this was not an oversight by the store and a former Performance employee who works at my friends shop stated that it was obvious the parts were not new.
I called Performance and they stated "We only took the bike from the floor that you pointed out and nothing was switched". Not quite true, as I saw the manager put the squewer(sp) from my old bike into the new one which wasn't really a big deal, but I had a tiny hunch they were switching the parts. Even so why did they charge me the price of a new bike? I am really disappointed in this transaction with Performance if that is indeed what they did as I thought their staff seemed trustworthy despite the bad PR they receive now and then.

Since I had my bike (560) I've had 4 flats as a result of defective tape used in both tires. They replaced the tape on only 1 wheel. They were other incidents that didn't register too high on my radar until today. My option is to return the bike to them and replace it with another one from the floor (and never take my eyeballs from them during the trade). Second option is to completely refund the bike and take my business elsewhere where I can have the confidence that the staff is taking the time to assess and take care of any issues that arise from my purchase of one of their products.

I feel like the dumb chick at the car dealer at this point. I just don't get the rationale behind how this trade went today.

[Cataboo]

I think I'd just return it if I were you, unless you really like the bike. Putting your old components when they're not of the same quality level on the new bike is definitely unacceptable.

[uforgot]

Why aren't you buying from the friend who has the lbs?

[Triskeliongirl]

I agree with Claudia. Just return it, get your money back, and buy a bike from your friend. Start with a fit, and work from there at finding frames that will work best for your body.

[Blueberry]

Return it. As quickly as possible. If they refuse, deal with your credit card company. I WOULD NOT support that kind of business. Period.

You deserve more!

CA

[Jiffer]

I'm 5'9" and have a 54" NON WS bike. I've had it professionally fit and it's fine for me.

As for the 3 rings, my husband doesn't like triples because they tend to have shifting problems, plus they weigh down the bike more. The pros use doubles and so do we. He did add a smaller cog to my bike to give me some help on the steeper hills, though. I could go with a compact double, but he says that would take away my bigger gear that helps me speed down the hills, which I love.

Educate yourself on the triple, double and compact double to figure out what's right for you.

[Running Mommy]

I'm also confused??? Why not buy from your friend the lbs owner??
As an owner myself, I'd be pretty upset if my friend went to a chain??!!

I see a lot of problems come in our door with the way performance fits people on bikes. Or should I say- doesn't bother to fit people.
I've mostly had problems with the Fuji's geometry. Effective top tube is very long compared to it's "size". An unfortunate side effect of the new relaxed geometry vs. the old sizing.

But again, WHY did you buy from a big chain vs. a friend/small lbs??
And 'Scattante'?? I think there are so many better brands out there. Yeah, they may cost a few more bones, but are worth it. IMO

[Cataboo]

Lots of people choose not to do business with friends because when things go wrong, they might no longer be friends. We also don't know if her friend at the LBS is a new friend or not.

My LBS shops are very expensive - and I'm not in a salary range where that's affordable to me, I can get things cheaper online or buying them used.

[denny]

Hi Everyone to answer a few questions. I didn't buy my bike from my friends bike shop because he wasn't open for business when I first purchased the bike in May. Second- the bikes they currently carry are out of my budget ($2,000 and up, Orbeas, Kuotas, Felts). After some thought over the weekend, I went back to the store where I did the upgrade and spoke with the manager. As I stated, I've never had a problem with them from a customer service stand point, just simple bike maintenance. He took a look at the bike in proper lighting and realized that they had given me a used bike and more than likely forgot to remove it from the floor.

In the end I upgraded to a carbon, 2008 Fuji Silhouette WSD, 53cm for a $100 more. Right now I'm happy about it and have a gut feeling that this bike will work for me. I love the reach between the drops and the shifters (Pro-Ritchey handlebars on this one- no extra long stretch to reach the levers). My shoulders feel like they're in the right place without my expanding out my elbows to compensate for the extra width. Interestingly enough, one of the female store managers tried to talk me out of a WSD bike "because I'm such a tall gal" and I probably should have been on a 56 instead of a 54cm top tube. Her thought is that the WSD's are better for shorter gals.

However, I have to wait 2 weeks for my bike as it's on order and I'll have to be on the road for another 2 weeks before I can test it!!! arghhh. Hopefully it won't be cold in Atlanta by the end of November. So now I'm without a bike.. just when I started to get my groove on.:)

[kermit]

Congrats. Sounds like a win-win. You scored a nice bike for $100 more. Dont' let that girl manager talk you out of it. If it feels good you will ride it. Enjoy! Oh and photos are required!

[uforgot]

Lots of people choose not to do business with friends because when things go wrong, they might no longer be friends. We also don't know if her friend at the LBS is a new friend or not.

My LBS shops are very expensive - and I'm not in a salary range where that's affordable to me, I can get things cheaper online or buying them used.

I'm a teacher, and a single mother, so I have to think about my purchases and even save for them. I sometimes find things used but I usually support my local lbs. They understand when you can't afford top of the line, and I've yet to see a shop that can't get bikes under $2,000, $1000 or even $500. If you order from a chain, purchase used, you need to factor in labor, parts and other stuff that you will have to pay eventually. Local lbs means better bikes, better service. The shop will also provide support on the bikes you purchase. Sometimes he throws in free labor, sometimes he gives me a great deal, and if I have a question about anything bikes, he responds to emails within the hour. Not sure what I would do if he went out of business due to lack of customer support. I really don't think I've saved anything any time I've purchased used and tried to do it myself. I usually wind up at a shop anyway. As it turns out, Dan is always right (and if you tell him Pyannyplayer, I'll deny it!) and knows what is best for ME. No trial and error.
You can't build a relationship with Craigslist.


As for doing business with friends, I agree it's not a good policy, but I wouldn't take my friend to help me with a purchase at a competing shop either.

[Crankin]

We buy clothes and most parts on line, but bikes at the lbs. I mean, I got a NEW FRAME after two years, because i just was not happy with what he sold me in 2006. Sure, I paid for the labor to switch over the components and I paid for a new bar and short reach shifters. But the new frame cost at least 3K.
I am not always happy with this shop, but I am up front about my needs and they work with me.

[OakLeaf]

LBS owners/employees here can confirm or deny this - but I've always understood that the profit margin on complete bikes is so small that when overhead is factored in, especially considering the salespersons' time, LBS's actually lose money on complete bikes. They need the parts and accessories business, and in some shops the service business, to survive.

[Cataboo]

I'm a teacher, and a single mother, so I have to think about my purchases and even save for them. I sometimes find things used but I usually support my local lbs. They understand when you can't afford top of the line, and I've yet to see a shop that can't get bikes under $2,000, $1000 or even $500. If you order from a chain, purchase used, you need to factor in labor, parts and other stuff that you will have to pay eventually. Local lbs means better bikes, better service. The shop will also provide support on the bikes you purchase. Sometimes he throws in free labor, sometimes he gives me a great deal, and if I have a question about anything bikes, he responds to emails within the hour. Not sure what I would do if he went out of business due to lack of customer support. I really don't think I've saved anything any time I've purchased used and tried to do it myself. I usually wind up at a shop anyway. As it turns out, Dan is always right (and if you tell him Pyannyplayer, I'll deny it!) and knows what is best for ME. No trial and error.
You can't build a relationship with Craigslist.



Actually, I've built relationships with several people that I've met via craigslist. And I can usually spot the ads of a couple people that I've met buying kayaking or biking things, and vice versa. Some of them I bike or kayak with, or just email on ocasion for advice or suggestions. I bought a bike from a guy back in the spring, he still emails me when he's upgraded something on his new bike and checks if I'm interested in it or just to see how I'm doing with the bike. The president of the local triathalon club sells quite a bunch on craigslist and has a wife that's just about my size - so we're frequently responding to each other's ads or talking about the area. This is on the DC craigslist which is actually pretty huge.

I'm a bit turned off by local bike shops because when I bought my first real mountain bike (maybe 5-6 years ago?), I went to several bike shops, researched, went around and test rode, and eventually bought the bike that the local bike shop recommended. Good components, maybe I got 10-20% off the bike, but I still spent maybe $600 which was an awful lot to me... But I never really got into riding the bike and it was only in the last year that I actually realized why not. The bike was too small for me, given the seat angle I couldn't get to the point where I was far back enough to have an efficient peddling stroke. Now, that's partly my own ignorance at the time and not really knowing what a bike should fit like - but it's also something that a bike shop should have been able to spot and tell me. Or to have just recommended a setback seatpost (I'm not sure a setback alone would have completely fixed it, I just shouldn't have bought a women's specific geometry)

I got my first road bike in an REI online sale for 75% off. Yes, it was a previous years model. But I managed to get a hell of a bike for $500, that I couldn't possibly buy at a local bike shop then or now at that price range, and in graduate school, that was already above my price range. When it arrived at the store, they put the bike together for me and tuned it, and helped me adjust it to me when I picked it up. I did luck out because the bike geometry wise fit me very well and at that discount, I knew that any upgrades to the bike to make it fit me would still have the bike well under anything I was going to find at a local bike shop, and I knew I could return it in an REI store without any problems. My bf & I studied the geometry tables for quite a while and had decided it would probably be right for me. It's still my favorite bike, and I haven't had to change anything about the fit, I've given it carbon handlebars and a nice seat. I did take it into a local bike shop recently for a fitting and they recommended leaving it as it was.

I'm not saying I haven't made mistakes buying used or online, but I've been able to return things or resell things without losing money. And that's fine with me. It's better than the hordes of bikes or parts I see being sold on ebay or craigslist with the description "bought at local bike shop for MSRP, turned out to be too big or too small, and they won't let me return or exchange it"

I'm probably lucky in that my BF has a great eye for bike fit and is also good at bike repairs and upgrades, and I'm fairly mechanically inclined. So typically I'll buy something, install it myself, troubleshoot it a bit if necessary, and if it needs any tweaking he does those for me. So in addition to getting a bike upgrade, I get a challenge, and learn a lot while I'm at it. Yeah, I could pay the local bike shop - but I enjoy the process. I also do all the maintenance & repairs that I can on my car, and in my house.

So I'm sure I'm a horror for local bike shops, and I'm sure there are local bike shops out there that are excellent places and do tons for their customers... And I do run into local bike shops when I need a tool, a chain link, or an innertube or something like that. Or if I need a wheel trued quickly and don't have the time or equipment handy to do it... And I understand the sentiment of supporting your local bike shops, however I'm not at a stage in my life with enough disposable income that the fact that I can pay twice as much for something local as ordering it online makes sense to me or my budget. I should however pick less expensive hobbies.

[Dogmama]

I figure my LBS has more experience fitting and troubleshooting than me. That's why I pay them. I don't have tons of money, so I save until I can afford what I want. I need "butt feel" before I buy something as important as my bike that I'll be riding for many years. (I mean the feel of my butt in the saddle --- not anything else :p)

[kfergos]

Local lbs means better bikes, better service. The shop will also provide support on the bikes you purchase. Sometimes he throws in free labor, sometimes he gives me a great deal, and if I have a question about anything bikes, he responds to emails within the hour.I have to agree. My LBS gives me great deals, great advice, and great support. For example, I've gotten 2 pairs of nice $12 for $20: "We can make it work." Or a free velcro strap to keep my pump in place. Or when my bike needs tweaking, I can go in and they'll do it right then (especially in the winter when things are slow), often for free. They let me walk off with items without paying for them, knowing I'll be back to pay for it later. They let me borrow overnight, without leaving any collateral, a carbon fiber and titanium bike knowing I'd bring it back. They've fitted me on three bikes and have kept at it until the fit is perfect. So I keep coming back to them. That's the kind of beneficial relationship you can't get buying online or from bigger retailers.

[deeaimond]

Yeah I agree, it can be hard to find a good all-rounder LBS, and I guess ultimately everyone ends up with some mix and matching.

For me, the owners of the LBS nearest to my home are a husband and wife team. The husband has some attitude issues, and isn't a very good mechanic. But the wife is friendly and prompt with ordering things for me if i ask for them, and also offering me good prices. On the other hand, I know a brilliant mechanic, the LBS he worked at closed down (the boss wasn't running the business properly) so now he just works from home. He doesnt have the parts, but he is a genius with the tuning up etc.

So now i buy from the LBS, let the owner install the parts then take it to my mechanic for a checkup. (helps that my mechanic is just a block or so away.. :D) That way the LBS guy stays happy and keeps giving me good prices (coz i don't get mad at him when a crap job is done) and my mechanic earns some extra to raise his 4 kids, and I feel nice and safe riding my bike. :p

[Crankin]

Frankly, I've never found a shop that I was 100% happy with. I bought my first 2 road bikes at a big store (Landry's) and while they were OK and I had my knowledgeable husband with me, they didn't really ask what they needed to. Hence, I've had 4 bikes in 8 years. My mtb is too big for me (Belmont Wheelworks), but since I hardly ever use it, it's OK for the amount of riding i do.
My best experience was with Quad Cycles in Arlington, where I bought my Jamis. It's a small shop, but they seem to cater to all different types of riders. So friendly and no hard sell.
I don't recommend the shop I go to now (ATA)... they cater to racers and hard core people. While most "regular" people consider me hard core, I am not. If you want an expensive European bike, it's the place to go. They do sell Giants, but no other US brand. It's funny, some people love this shop, as evidenced by comments on the web, but others hate it. SheFly told me her husband won't even buy tubes there!
I am just glad my husband is very mechanically inclined and we have all of the tools at home.

[Cataboo]

People should do what they're comfortable with...

I just don't think Denny should be chastised for buying from a chain or for not buying from her friend with a LBS. Obviously, she's already having issues and just needed help with what to do.

But I know if I had a friend who owned a shop who got upset at me because I went somewhere else to buy something - I would not be happy with said friend.

[Zen]

I've found that, after factoring in shipping charges,my LBS prices are just about the same as ordering online.

I've also learned that it doesn't pay to be cheap. Save up if you have to. (I know I do, I don't even have a visa card)

[Crankin]

Favorite saying in our house:

You get what you pay for.

[denny]

I got my bike a week early today. Whoopee!!! Performance Bike did a great job in getting it in sooner than expected and I couldn't be happier.

To answer RunningMommy- my friend at the LBS couldn't be happier about my trade in fact he had insisted in making sure that he found the right bike for me. As I had stated in previous post, 1. He wasn't open for business the first time I purchased and financed my bike with Performance. 2. He hadn't confirmed his financing company until yesterday. 3. Even with a "friend" discount I wouldn't have been able to afford their bikes w/out great financing options and a Customer guarantee program. I purchased my bike from Performance, but my friend will be doing the ongoing maintenance on my bike for "customer service and expertise reasons"

While I realise that LBS provide great customer service (and I'm sure you do too Running Mommy) you can pay for it out the wazoo! I have yet to find one LBS that fits my budget for biking accessories. In fact, my very first purchase for cycling shoes cost me $110. That same shoe cost $90 at REI and Performance. When my budget becomes more flexible,ie. getting a new job then I would be happy to consider the bike of my dreams from my friends shop. (Assuming they're still in business of course).

Another thing, as Catriona stated, I've learned the hard way.. do NOT mix friendship with business if you can help it. That kind of money passing hands is a large business transaction in my book.

NOW. Anyone wanna see my bike pics tomorrow? I named it "Song" because it hums along smoothly. :cool:

[Cataboo]

I'd love to see a picture of Song ;)

I'm glad it all worked out for you.

[Triskeliongirl]

A little off the original topic, but does anyone know perforamance's policy on a return that used team performance points. If you return an item, are the points put back in your account, or do you lose them?

[echidna]

If you return items, the corresponding points are deducted from your account. There are a LOT of ways around this for the savvy/slightly skanky shopper to explore. I'll leave the gory details to your imagination; however...if you make a very large purchase (say, a bike) you can use those points the following day....

[Triskeliongirl]

NO, I didn't mean what happens to the points EARNED on the item that is returned, I meant if you use points from your account to pay in part for an item, do you lose them or are they credited back to your account?

[denny]

OK- it's been a while since I had a chance to post a pic of the new bike (Song), but here it is. I hope the pic isn't too big. I had to remove the original saddle, however pretty it was (purple and silver) as it was KILLING my nether regions. That's the only fault I could find with this bike right now and I guess that would be expected by rider preference.

Once again, it's an 07 Fuji Silhouette,