Fatigue

[firenze11]

I'm wondering what you all do when you're feeling fatigue set in. Every year, around this time I start getting really tired, I've been really active for the past couple of months hoping it would help, but I'm not sure.

I think I must get very mild SAD, but I don't have any depression symptoms except that I get so tired in the fall/winter. (I realized I keep going in around January asking my doc to do blood work - but it's always great, so I'm guessing it's the season)

I know exercise is supposed to help, but I feel like it's actually making me more tired this year, especially after morning workouts. I'll be great for a few hours after then I crash hard. It is so frustrating.

I've been taking spin and swim classes with my swim class at 6:30 pm and one of my spin classes the next morning at 8. I just couldn't do it today. Mentally I felt I should go and I knew I could push through it and I tried to tell myself to toughen up but my body gave a big fat no.

So, back to the question, what do you do when you're feeling fatigue set in? Any tips/tricks. I think I eat pretty well, I exercise, I try to go to bed early and get at least 8 hours of sleep - of course I'm in school so keeping stress down is hard but I'm doing pretty well with that.

[Veronica]

I sleep more. I've been getting 9 - 10 hours of sleep lately. In the summer it's 8 - 8.5 usually.

Veronica

[SadieKate]

You know, professional athletes actually take breaks in their off seasons. Nobody in their right mind should be training at the same level 12 months a year. Have you considered whether a short break in your training would be a good thing? I think a lot of recreational athletes neither take seasonal breaks or think about periodization. Have you?:)

[OakLeaf]

And try to get more sunlight. If you don't have windows at work, see if you can install full-spectrum bulbs or at least bring in a lamp of your own. It made a huge difference to me when I had an office without windows. If you don't run, try swapping out a brisk 1-2 hour walk for your swim class one or two days a week. Get outside during your breaks, even if it's just to stand in the doorway (trying to avoid the cigarette smokers :rolleyes:). If you're lucky enough to live away from a lot of ambient artificial light, use thin curtains in your bedroom; if you must draw heavy shades at night, then open them in favor of privacy curtains as soon as you're awake in the morning.

But they're right - listen to your body. Once you've maximized your exposure to natural light, fresh air and a good diet, don't try to force yourself beyond that. You are an animal in nature and like it or not, you participate in nature's cycles. IMO, people are healthiest when they acknowledge that and work within it.

[firenze11]

I'm not really lacking sleep which is part of why I'm frustrated. I get a good 8-9 hrs/night but my body is still tired.

I'm wondering if maybe I started training too hard too quickly. I took it relatively slow this summer and then when I got to school I'm doing 3 back to back days of pretty tough workouts. So I don't really think I fit into the category of training hard all summer (unless the breast cancer walk counts) and now needing an off-season break. I feel like if I do less I'll be doing next to nothing. :( Maybe 3 days together (one feels like a two-a-day with late swim early spin) is too much and 3 days spaced out would be better.

[jobob]

Perhaps. Seems like everyone is different with respect to their tolerances for (over-)training.

Around the end of August last year I suddenly became very fatigued, so much so that I would be exhausted after a relatively easy ride. I had really ramped up my training that spring & summer and, after I saw my Dr and had some tests done, best as we could tell it was my body telling me "enough already". I ttok a couple of months off and felt much better by December. Now I'm a lot more careful in how much I ramp up, and I'm better at recognizing the signs.

You might consider cutting back on your schedule for a few weeks and see if that helps. Also, if you haven't had a checkup in a while, it wouldn't hurt.

[firenze11]

Thanks. I think I will maybe cut back for a bit just to see if it helps or not, I feel better today after skipping spin so maybe it was good to take a day off. I'm also thinking about going to the doc to ask about possible mild SAD. I guess it wouldn't hurt :)

[TahoeDirtGirl]

Yes, I know what you mean. Yesterday I literally wilted at my desk as it was getting cloudy AND dark at 4:30 pm.

Some of the suggestions on here I have already implemented. When I start to feel wilty I get out and start walking. I started walking at lunch with some people I work with. I walk my dog in the dark of the morning and then the dark at night, but it feels good to get outside. I try to get out as much as I can.

On the training end. Take a break. I am realizing I was stupid to train as much as I did with an injured leg and now I'm finally, after a year, getting back on track. I would take a few weeks off and just do some different things, maybe hit the gym, swim, walk or heck, just do nothing. It makes you appreciate good, non fatigued workouts even more.

Do you weight train? This is the time of year I amp up my weight training-except last year I got the big idea that I didn't need it and got injured. If I only took my own advice huh....?

The artificial lights- I don't like them :( They are a weird kind of light, I checked several out, you really need to see them before you buy them. The light kind of annoyed me, I have no idea why.

[firenze11]

Tahoe, thanks for the suggestions.

I definitely think I'm going to start weight training, and maybe a little yoga again. I'm cutting down a bit on my workouts when I feel like my body's too tired to do them, it's not fun when I make myself go and feel exhausted the rest of the day.

I went to the doc today and asked him about SAD. He thinks I definitely have it and recommended light therapy. I'll give it a try and see how it goes. I'm trying to take walks, too, so I can get out into the sun and stretch my legs. But winter is definitely coming and sunny days aren't really that frequent. Yesterday and today were awful, gray and cloudy and cold. :mad:

So, when do I get a prescription to move to Hawaii from October to March? Or maybe the Italian Riviera? :D

[crazycanuck]

Or mozy on down to Aust for some sunshine :cool::)

[Miranda]

I get the SAD very badly in the winter too. Some girls I know do a wee bit of the tanning bad. I'm super fair, so I don't. I saw a show once on a special type of light bulb panel a lady had by her treadmill that helped. I purposely keep all the window shades pulled way up to let as much light as possible.

As posted, I'll add another about over training. I never thought I would see the value of "taking a day off". But, wow... it was like someone kicked open a door on my fatigue level. If you want to keep the gym as your normal routine, is there something that is a recovery activity, or just relax? Does it have a pool or hot tub? Stretching class? A place to grab a healthy drink and just socialize?;)

Also, switching up part of the gym time to a new or different winter activity might help. My theory I'm testing is that it makes winter something to look forward to. I bought xc skis last year. And I have snow shoes on order. The children and I also bought rink skates recently as well.

[Aggie_Ama]

You can move to Texas where we have 300 sunny days a year. Although Hawaii sounds better.

No seriously, my friend took a job in Anchorage and has had major issues with SAD. I think he has been using a low end light treatment, not a full on tanning bed though. I think it has been improving his quality of life.

[tulip]

Hey Firenze, have you always been in Montreal?? That's pretty far north. I had some issues with feeling very low energy when I lived in Paris in winter, which is the same latitude as Montreal. For comparison, New York City is the same latitude as Madrid.

Also, and this may not pertain to you, when I lived in Paris I found that living in another language was quite draining, even though I'm fluent in both French and English. Even more draining might be going between two languages all the time, which might be more of the case in Montreal.

[arielmoon]

I sleep more. I've been getting 9 - 10 hours of sleep lately. In the summer it's 8 - 8.5 usually.

Veronica

me too! I figured it I was needing it to recover from the century on Sunday!

[aicabsolut]

I get the SAD very badly in the winter too. Some girls I know do a wee bit of the tanning bad. I'm super fair, so I don't.

Just an FYI, the tanning bed lamps aren't the right grade (spectrum?) to treat SAD. They make special sunlamps for that, so while it doesn't matter for you, tell your friends to save their skin and get outdoors or look into getting a real lamp (they are $$$$) if their SAD is bad enough.

[firenze11]

Or mozy on down to Aust for some sunshine :cool::)

Ah, that would be amazing, perpetual summer!


You can move to Texas where we have 300 sunny days a year. Although Hawaii sounds better.
I've been thinking about moving back down to the southwest, it might end up being better for my health/sanity. Winters here are just too much snow and gray! Snow is pretty for the first couple days, then :eek: I start thinking "Make it STOP!" I should really try snowshoeing or something. I used to love snow in MD when it would happen every once and awhile.


Hey Firenze, have you always been in Montreal?? That's pretty far north. I had some issues with feeling very low energy when I lived in Paris in winter, which is the same latitude as Montreal. For comparison, New York City is the same latitude as Madrid.

I haven't always been here, I was actually born in New Mexico so maybe my body just really needs more sun. I just moved up to Canada from the States about 6 years ago and since then I've been having problems in the winter. I just realized the past 2-3 years I've been going to my doctor in December/January asking her to do some blood tests because I'm so tire. It's only this year that I realized I wasn't anemic or something else and started looking into SAD. I never thought of the latitude thing, but this is certainly much further north than I ever thought I'd be.

I can see the language thing adding a little bit of stress into my life. I'm trying to improve my French, so it's another thing that my brain is focusing on a lot. Although, I feel lucky that I can pretty much just speak English when I need to.

And regarding the lights, the doctor told me I needed to get one that is 10000 lux. Apparently regular rooms are like 100 lux, so it's way brighter, helps mimic what the sun does, and the spectrum they use helps to reset the circadian rhythm. I have one on the way so I'm keeping my fingers crossed it helps.

Also, just as a side note, I was a bit shocked by my appointment. Even though I'm not experiencing a mood change/the depression side of SAD, he told me that he preferred to put people on antidepressants between October and March. I had done research beforehand and everything said light box first and foremost along w/ exercise, eating well, etc. I was just really surprised that drugs would be his first choice. . .maybe it's because he's a university doctor? I don't know. I was also surprised that most insurance companies wouldn't cover the light therapy but will cover medication. Hm. (I know the medication works wonders for many many people and I'm not against it for the right situation, but it just felt very wrong for me and my situation).

Whew, that's a long one! Thanks for all your help, advice, experiences!

[Aggie_Ama]

Who cannot want to come back to the Southwest? I want to move all over Texas and even into New Mexico. Too bad I don't have a willing nomad at home!

Any chance you can go to another doctor? I have had too many friends get put on anti-depressants as a first choice and regretted it. Sucks about the light not being covered, it seems like a nice option at least for my friend.

[beccaB]

[QUOTE=firenze11;372251]Thanks. I think I will maybe cut back for a bit just to see if it helps or not, I feel better today after skipping spin so maybe it was good to take a day off. I'm also thinking about going to the doc to ask about possible mild SAD. I guess it wouldn't hurt :)[/QUOTECan you be getting SAD this early? I live in southern Michigan , and that won't really hit here until dark and gloomy November. Fall is actually really sunny and nice here. But winter is a dark dreary nasty thing, and I am a native Floridian. My Michigan native husband did not warn me that this is the 3rd grayest place in the country.

[Miranda]

Just an FYI, the tanning bed lamps aren't the right grade (spectrum?) to treat SAD. They make special sunlamps for that, so while it doesn't matter for you, tell your friends to save their skin and get outdoors or look into getting a real lamp (they are $$$$) if their SAD is bad enough.


Ahh, that's good to know. I knew there was something "special" to the type of light, but didn't know what. Maybe it mentally makes them feel better if they look like summer (tan):rolleyes:. I'm always just trying to not fry with sunburn or die of skin ca.

[TahoeDirtGirl]

Ahh, that's good to know. I knew there was something "special" to the type of light, but didn't know what. Maybe it mentally makes them feel better if they look like summer (tan):rolleyes:. I'm always just trying to not fry with sunburn or die of skin ca.

I will sheepishly admit that I did my one and only visit to a tanning booth last year in a crazy attempt to find sunshine in New England in winter. I can see why people go to them in the winter. It felt really good while I was there. BUT that night I felt like a piece of bacon. I swear I was sizzling in my bed. I only spent 2 minutes in the lowest wattage one (I know the owner) and I just couldn't figure out how people could be in it longer. It was pretty intense.

The weird thing for me is I actually get out more at night and walk my dog in the peace and quiet and feel better being in the cold air. I know what I'm missing and it's being outside and the sun, so I think I'm going to put money towards a vacation this winter somewhere warm, or maybe a couple of flights to Florida.

The thing about living in the Sierras is that even though you are buried under snow, the sun pops out after every storm. And with all that snow around you, it is that much brighter. So here when the sun goes in I wilt.

Yes you will find that taking a day off makes you stronger. Everything gets to relax and rebuild. It was one of the lessons I should of learned but I'm getting there. It's just that I like to bike :)

[tulip]

Almost two years ago I did something that had never done before--I went south in February. My stepmother and I went to Nicaragua for 10 days. It was WONDERFUL. When I got back, it was almost March, and in these parts, that's a bearable wait until spring.

Interestingly, aside from Nicaraguans, the most people I met there were Canadians.

[TrekTheKaty]

I know in the winter, if left alone, I will hibernate. When it gets dark, I'm ready to crawl in bed by 8. I tried to get up at 6:30 for a bike ride this morning, but the sun wasn't up--so I rolled back over and went back to sleep!

To counteract this--in the evening, I make an effort to turn on every light in the house--this keeps me awake until at least 9 pm. When I worked in an office, I went to the gym every day after work--that also kept me up a little later.

[shootingstar]

Be fair to yourself firenze. Would agree that NM was sunnier. We vacationed in Sante Fe and Alburqueque area for a wk. and noticed the amount of light there. By the way, we LOVED it there.

While Montreal gets more snow and cold than lower Mainland/Vancouver and Vancouver is a beautiful city, for myself since relocating to Vancouver, I find the rainy months...just barely bearable than the snow and ice. I never knew how much I disliked many winter days of greyness, persistent rain ....snow, especially clean dry snow is preferable to this. I don't get SADD just fed-up slugging through rain.

Don't give up on exercise, but don't be hard on yourself for days you want to lighten up abit. Otherwise you'll just burn-out...

HOpe all is going well on other fronts in your life.

[Crankin]

I don't have SAD, but I do notice around here people constantly complain about the winter... hey, it's New England!
My key to dealing with the short amount of light is to get outside! I didn't do that the first ten years or so after we moved back, except for playing in the snow with my kids. All of my exercise was at the gym. Now, while I still go to the gym, I do something outside at least 3 days a week, sometimes more. It might be just a fitness walk, or hiking, snow shoeing, or x country skiing. The true winter season seems pretty short when you you look at it this way. We don't get much snow until December and any snow we get in March is nice, spring skiing conditions, but is gone rather quickly. Usually I'm outside riding a bit in March, too.
I think it's natural to want to curl up by the fire and chill during these months, but if you keep getting some exercise outside, it seems to keep it in balance.

[SCurve]

Firenze, I am *so* with you. I have been getting sad and tired in the winter for my whole adult life. I also crave exercise, because I have been a fitness professional since 1999. But even I get low in the energy department once the sun starts setting at 4 p.m.! It got so bad last year that I (gasp!) STOPPED working out. Horrible.

My solution: I now have a workout partner, and even if I am tired and depressed, I would not miss our gym workouts for the world! We count on each other and we never, ever cancel, no matter how down or busy (we are both grad students) we are. It is the best arrangement ever. We work out twice as hard as we would if we were working out alone, and because we get to chat between sets, we don't even realize how much work we are doing until we are exhausted--and happy!--at the end of the session.

Do you have the opportunity to post a flier or notify other women in your area that you want a workout buddy? I met mine at a networking event at school. But seeking out other students in spin classes or yoga classes might be a great idea.

Best of luck!

[TahoeDirtGirl]

I have to agree with Crankin about getting outside. My dumpy feeling already started and thankfully, someone figured out the ankle mystery and it's healing. So I started running. I have a running partner too, and she doesn't let me slack. The cold nose goes a long way as does the click click click of the toenails on the hardwood floor when she realizes that it's getting later without getting outside. Border collies:rolleyes:. Now if only she would figure out how to turn on the coffee pot and change the laundry...

[Tokie]

I get SAD, and I live in coastal southern california! I tried the full spectrum lights. It was inconvenient - you expose yourself to the light (shining into your eyes) for I seem to recall 45 minutes in the am, first thing upon arising from bed. I read the newspaper. I got some tanning/freckling. And my opthamologist was not cool with it. And it didn't work. Tried Wellbutrin - I think it worked - a tiny bit- because of the palcebo effect. this spring, my internist started me on Vitamin D (50,000 units of ergocalciferol) he checked my vit D level first with a blood test. I am on it primarily for my osteoporosis (along with fosamax and estradiol) but he said it is also linked to reduced rates of colon cancer and heart disease. But I noticed that once the days started getting shorter, I wasn't getting the short days blues - for me it's a remarkable improvement. I am quite pleased, and apparently my bones, colon and heart will be too. Tokie

[firenze11]

Here's a bit of an update but more of a, hmm, question, maybe.

Thanks for all your responses, I am finding that if I get out in the sunshine for a walk I do feel a lot better and less tired. Waking up to some sunlight in the morning seems to be helping. I have a light box coming, so I'm going to give it a try. Can't hurt, right? I still think I probably have mild SAD, winter blues I guess they call it.

I'm wondering more and more, though, about this overtraining business. It never really crossed my mind until I posted. . .and I'm having a hard time believing I could have overtrained because I'm only doing 3 hours of workouts a week and I always thought overtraining happened to those 6-7 days/week 1+ hour hardcore athletes. But lately my legs have started feeling heavy and tired when I do pretty basic stuff like walking up the hill to my apartment or walking up the library stairs, and my knee and ankle joints are feeling sore and achy (I've never had this before). It's all pretty darn mild, but noticeable enough for me to question where it's coming from because it feels like each week is a little more noticeable. And it feels different from DOMS.

So at this point I don't know if I should suck it up and stick with my spin classes until they end in a few weeks or take a break. I'm hesitant to take a break because I really really enjoy being active and I already paid for the classes (:D Does that make me cheap or something?)

Ugh! :mad: Sorry, I guess mainly I'm venting some frustrations.

[jobob]

I'm wondering more and more, though, about this overtraining business. It never really crossed my mind until I posted. . .and I'm having a hard time believing I could have overtrained because I'm only doing 3 hours of workouts a week and I always thought overtraining happened to those 6-7 days/week 1+ hour hardcore athletes.

That's precisely what I thought too back when I was having fatigue problems last year - I didn't think I was doing enough to be "overtrained" ! Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't - but all I know is, once I took some off, I felt much better when I did start up again.

Have you had a checkup recently to rule out any other possibilities? Thyroid issues, that sort of thing? (apologies if you already discussed this).

That's a drag that you already paid for spin classes. Is there any way they could defer your membership, if only for a few weeks?

Wishing you the best.

[OakLeaf]

What about your protein intake? I get sore and tired when I'm not getting enough protein. I seem to need way more protein than I think I ought to - fish after every hard strength workout makes an enormous difference to me. If you eat fish. I have issues with protein powders :(

[Crankin]

Glad you are making progress with the fatigue. I get over training symptoms very easily, so you don't have to be "hard core" to have it.
And Aggie A., I never want to go back to the southwest. Living in the inside of an oven for 16 years was tiresome. I love the change of seasons and everything that goes with it. Endless summer is not all it's cracked up to be!

[firenze11]

Ok, thanks again everyone. I feel like less of a doofus knowing a lower volume can cause overtraining symptoms. I think maybe I am feeling something along the lines of overtraining. I had my last swim class of the semester today, which really bums me out, and I only have 2 more full weeks of spin. I think I'm going to skip it tomorrow and try to go the next two weeks, but take a day or two off if I'm feeling wonky.

Jobob - I did have a physical in August and everything is a-ok. I always go to the doctor in the winter thinking I'm anemic so she always does a full panel on the usual fatigue-causing stuff and I come out fine. That's what made me think of mild SAD this year, actually. . .when I started to wonder if I was becoming anemic.

Oakleaf - I think I'll check my protein out. I know I've built a lot of muscle in my legs the last few months (my legs feel really different, I don't think they've ever been so solid feeling) and I've been craving meat lately. It's hard to get protein when I'm at school, but I'll be more conscious about it. I think this might help quite a bit.

And thanks Crankin! Being out in the sun helps a lot and I feel better, I'm going to try and keep it up (at least until the snow comes!) What region of the SW did you live in? The thing I actually miss most about Albuquerque is the awesome weather. It still has the change of the seasons (even snow sometimes!), but it's milder and sunnier. I'm not sure how I'd take perpetual summer, I say I'd like it but I do love watching the leaves change and the crispness of fall.

And, I've written a book again :rolleyes: I must be avoiding work. :D Thanks again.

[Crankin]

Firenze, I lived in Tempe, which does not have the seasons that ABQ has. The winter was fine, but it still got dark early, so being outside didn't happen much for me. No wonder I became a gym rat! Well, when my 3 and 5 year old ran into the shrub bed in front of my house and said, "We're in the forest," I said enough!
I do miss the smell of pinon in the winter... and of course, my friends.

[Jolt]

Ugh. Sounds like I'm not the only one feeling like crud lately. This semester has been the absolute pits--school is crazy, I have to get up at 3:30 am two days a week to travel to my clinical, I'm working part-time evenings at a nursing home (which is NOT a good fit for me), I started off the semester with a nasty case of IT band syndrome which I am in PT for and is fortunately getting better (though I've also been having other issues--tightness in peroneal muscles, foot pain which I just figured out is from a major knot in my calf muscle--boy does one thing lead to another!) and I just never feel like I'm caught up on my work or on sleep so the upshot of all this is that I have had no energy for the past couple of months which is not like me AT ALL. After talking with my advisor, I think I'm going to switch to part-time school (finish next spring instead of this spring because of when some of the classes are offered), get a better nursing job to get some better experience rather than having all I do be passing out pills and dealing with demented patients' behavoir problems, and hopefully that will help. Now if I could just get back to running, hiking and even feeling like walking as much as I normally do... Starting to wonder if I will ever feel like my real self again it's been so long. Sorry for the whine-fest but I am just frustrated!