Car hits bike... spring in New England [Archive] - Women's Cycling Discussion Forums

spazzdog

05-13-2005, 01:26 PM

Just watching the local news and they showed a 12 yr old being airlifted to the hospital after being it by a car.

Seemed like a residential area, but if its anything like my neighbor hood, the kids zip all over the road, between the car and NEVER wear helmets.

Hope this little one ends up being OK. As of the news report, no charges had been filed on the driver.

spazz

Irulan

05-13-2005, 01:32 PM

we had not one but two bike/kid incidents yesterday. The 15 year old girl who was riding on the wrong side of the road with no helment did not make it.

Irulan

joyrider

05-13-2005, 03:29 PM

I live right by a middle school and I can't believe how many kids are riding (on the wrong side of the road, talking to their friends) without helmets, or, my favorite, wearing the helmet on the back of their head with the straps hanging loose to look cool! :eek:
If I were their mother, I would take their bikes away!

spazzdog

05-13-2005, 03:36 PM

Barb

05-13-2005, 05:30 PM

The kid across the street from me was hit by a car. He was not wearing a helmet and at the hospital he recieved a gift of THREE new helmets. His mom says "I just can't get him to wear one, even now". I just smiled and told her I knew how to lock bikes up for riders who couldn't bother with a helmet. Shesh I was mad at her. BE A PARENT>>>ENFORCE A RULE.

Ok, I'm calm again.

spazzdog

05-13-2005, 05:40 PM

Warning... generalization to follow. :eek:

Why is it, our "baby boomer" generation, felt the need to give our children control of their lives and by extension the lives of the parents. No rules, rationalizing with the screaming 2 yr old, not locking up the bikes if no helmet firmly on head.

Not to sound like my parents, but if I didn't follow the rules I didn't get to play... period. Subsequently I learned at a very early age respect, reliability, consequences, responsibility and a few other important social skills.

I don't have children, but I tell you this from my heart... if my kid got on a bike or a skateboard or skates without a helmet, it would be a long time before they ever saw those toys again.

Of course, I'm all for taking jr. high school kids to the morgue to view what guns do to a human body to perhaps prevent a bit of the schoolyard shootouts.

call me crazy; just don't call me late for dinner.... spazz :cool:

RoadRaven

05-13-2005, 05:57 PM

singletrackmind

05-13-2005, 06:00 PM

Yep. We've got the 'don't even let me catch you simply sitting on your bike without a helmet' rules. I've taken bike priviledges away for days just for doing the above. It's my goal to make it very clear that bike=helmet at ALL times. I've only had to take the bike away once. This, of course, goes for skates and scooters as well.

Also, many of the communities in our county are passing helmet laws-parents get fined but it gets waived if they show proof of an ansi approved helmet.

Hey! Check me out!
http://www.ksdk.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=79182
click on the 'click here to play video'.
The goal was to emphasize that bicycles were for everyone and that you don't need to spend a ton to ride bikes (says the chick on the $3000 bike). Well, you don't really, do you, just to get out with the family or friends and ride?

I'm the chick in the orange and blue flame jersey, green mtn bike and baby trailer attached. They do show my name, but not under the right face. Pat ended up with her name under my face. Ha! Yeah, that's me with the scary voice (is it really that high??) and all the eyebrows. :eek: They let me say my bit about helmets!! :D

Ok, quit laughing!

The guy doing the interview showed up with a borrowed bike and NO helmet and all of us in the group ganged up on him and MADE him wear one. Luckily I had my silver road helmet in the car and it fit him. The cool thing was that when he did the intro part of the story live he found another helmet to wear (we weren't there anymore). Good for him! :)

Irulan

05-13-2005, 06:53 PM

I don't understand why they don't just make a law... preferably a federal law that states "under 16 helmet required". Put it out there like a child protective thing and what legislator would have the cojones to vote nay.

I know they won't pass one for adults because adults are supposed to have common sense... heck NH doesn't require motorcyclists to wear helmets; which I think is soooooo stupid. Been there, done that (when I was 18-19) and now I go on the "sweat is cheaper than skin grafts" theory.

spazz-bouncing off the little soapbox

there are lots of laws. but are cops going to sit around the skate park and write no helment tickets, or are they going to look for criminals. In this town, forget the enforcement. Even with laws, the local paper still regularlary does recreation shots without helmets.

And I'm with all the other parents on this board. I really wonder about those that don't enforce it at home.

We have the bonus of having lots of real life experince with what happens without helmets due to our Ski Patrol work. Lots of good real life examples every single winter weekend

penny

chelle

05-13-2005, 07:32 PM

I spend a lot of time, especially in the spring at the local skatepark. I fly around on my bmx and occasionally I even fall down but that's ok because I've got my helmet, my knee pads and my elbow pads. When I started riding bike's back in the days of disco, helmets were not what they are now. Back then we used motorcycle helmets because all of the styrofoam helmets that we got broke. My parents rule was, no helmet= no bike.

I'm amazed that when i go to the skatepark, I'm usually the only one wearing a helmet. Sometimes an "old guy" who has to show up at work the next day will wear one too. The bmx'ers as well as the skaters and the rollerbladers never wear one. If you ever see a BMX video, no helmets. What kind of example are these "pro" riders setting for the kids that want to be like them.

I have a friend who suffered a serious head injury and he's never been the same since. He was one of those "it'll never happen to me type's". It's never a matter of if your going to crash, it's only a matter of when. Where I'm from it's the law to wear helmet's on bikes yet I've never seen anyone out enforcing it.

I now spend most of my time in Colorado and I was just stunned when I saw people riding motorcycles here without helmets. It's crazy. Perhaps these nutbars should have to visit the head injury clinic before they decide to not wear a bucket. I just get really irked when I see kids without helmets on.

I did an interview for a Canadian news channel and after the interview they asked to get some footage of me just riding around. I didn't have a helmet so I refused to ride on camera without one on.

I hope I'm still on topic, I feel better now.

massbikebabe

05-13-2005, 08:30 PM

Spazz,

I do think here in Mass. there is a law requiring children to wear helmets. I think it was wrote in with the car seat till 40 pounds thing. Anywhoo, I agree with you completely and have raised my kids much like your momma and daddy raised you. Many of the kids I see have what I call PDD, or in lay mans terms, Parental Deficit Disorder. My kids look at me in fear when another kid pulls crap at the store that they knew they would never have gotten away with. Now that they are teenagers they often make comments like "Look at that little brat, Mom would have him by the ear right now!" ;)

karen

ps- someday you have to come to Worcester and meet my kids...they are a hoot!

LBTC

05-13-2005, 08:30 PM

[QUOTE=Irulan]there are lots of laws. but are cops going to sit around the skate park and write no helment tickets, or are they going to look for criminals. In this town, forget the enforcement. Even with laws, the local paper still regularlary does recreation shots without helmets.
/QUOTE]

Doesn't that just frost your cookies? I see red :mad: when I see those pictures! It's completely irresponsible for them to print those!!

yeah, in BC there's a helmet law too. and we have bicycle cops. and I've seen bicycle cops ride right past riders not wearing helmets and not even say something, let alone issue a ticket. and they didn't look like they were in a hurry chasing criminals. it's a shame it's not enforced.

fact is, though, we need parents doing their jobs.

is there enough room on this soapbox for all of us?

namaste,
~T~

LBTC

05-13-2005, 08:35 PM

I did an interview for a Canadian news channel and after the interview they asked to get some footage of me just riding around. I didn't have a helmet so I refused to ride on camera without one on.

Yay, Chelle! you rock, girl! :) The more I read of what you've got to say, the more I like ya! You're heads in the right place.

so why did you have your bike and no helmet? :confused: just curious...

well, I've got a new helmet on order now, after the trail goddess sent me a message....those little cracks don't look like much, but it's definitely time for another one!

cheers!
~T~

spazzdog

05-14-2005, 03:00 AM

Maybe a few of those "splat" commercials... "your brain on drugs"

or PSA's by riders who went sans helmet and are now sans mobility...

or by parents who discovered the dangers of not enforcing the wearing of a helmet the day little johnnie/susie got clipped by good old neighbor bob down the street. Now they're sans johnnie/susie.

harsh yes... aimed at parents would it work?? you tell me.

nuthatch

05-14-2005, 03:52 AM

Sometimes I wish I could lock the HELMET to their heads!

With little guys, it's easy to lock up the bike and refuse to start the car if helmets or seat belts are not in place. It just takes a bit of backbone on the parents part. We've all had to do it.

With the older kids, you can make sure they've got the helmet on when they leave the house, but you can't control whether it stays on once they're out of sight. Some of those kids you see riding around (the older ones) have just ditched the helmet somewhere so they aren't seen by their friends looking uncool. It's not an issue of parental control, it's an issue of being asinine at the 13-18 age range.

oroight

05-14-2005, 04:07 AM

[QUOTE=RoadRaven][COLOR=Indigo]Hi there... the wearing of cycle helmets has been a legal requirement here for everyone on a bike for a few years now, and has greatly reduced head injuries in our hospitals

I guess it was easy to introduce because the wearing of helmets on motorcycles has been law for years and years.

RR
Aotearoa New Zealand
Hey road raven
we too have compulsery helmet and bike light laws, you can get an "on the spot ~ $150 fine,
not to mention- no riding with earplugs+music!
l have even heard the cops can pull you up if your helmet isnt up to "standard" (ie under 3 yrs old) but l dont believe that one. :eek:
melb aust

singletrackmind

05-14-2005, 07:03 AM

I did an interview for a Canadian news channel and after the interview they asked to get some footage of me just riding around. I didn't have a helmet so I refused to ride on camera without one on.
Way to go Chelle!!
It amazes me how many parents will have their kids wear helmets but not wear one themselves. I think it's important for kids to see adults wearing helmets, otherwise it's just some rule for kids and yeah, when they get to the I AM AN INDIVIDUAL stage (12ish and up) they are going to want to shuck the 'little kid rules'. If EVERYONE is always wearing a helmet it's not going to be something only kids do, especially when people like Chelle who are among the elite and oft in media also have them on, therefore not a kid rule to resist.

The biggest thing I run into with adults is that many of them (including me) didn't wear helmets when we were kids. THEY are ok, right? My parents didn't know about helmets. It was my LBS that intro'ed me to helmets and me that got my parents wearing them. Too late for mom, who's early dementia was caused by a helmetless crash when she was a teen, but at least they were wearing them and dad still does (mom died after getting lost in the CO mountains, after she slipped away from dad to walk her dog in town. I guess you could say not wearing a helmet eventually killed her.)

I am glad to see more helmets in media and hope that trend grows by bounds. :)

bikerHen

05-14-2005, 07:32 AM

Way back when we owned and rode horses, my daughter learned that you don't ever ride without a helmet. This was reinforced after a small spill she took that put a very large dent in her helmet. When we sold the farm, moved closer to town and took up biking the first thing she asked was when do I get a helmet? So they can be taught! In fact, she has taken up horseback riding again and needs/wants mom to buy a new helmet for that too! She's smart, but expensive! :) bikerHen

PS - what really burns me is seeing the family out for a ride with kids wearing their helmets, but not the parents! :mad:

spazzdog

05-14-2005, 07:59 AM

must not want to mess up their hair...

spazz :eek:

snapdragen

05-14-2005, 09:31 AM

I know a guy who keeps a handful of Performance gift certificates - specifically for kids helmets. When he see's a parent and child, and child is without helmet, he give 'em a certificate. Hopefully they use them! :D

chelle

05-14-2005, 09:58 AM

Yay, Chelle! you rock, girl! :) The more I read of what you've got to say, the more I like ya! You're heads in the right place.

so why did you have your bike and no helmet? :confused: just curious...

well, I've got a new helmet on order now, after the trail goddess sent me a message....those little cracks don't look like much, but it's definitely time for another one!

cheers!
~T~

Well to answer your question. When I do an interview it's important to be sitting on or in front of the bike that your sponsor gives you as well as wearing the clothes of your sponsors as well. I brought my bike to stand besides but I didn't bring my riding gear. Did you see the pix in Bike Mag? One of my sponsors asked me when he saw them "how come you didn't wear your team jersey?". He didn't realize or care that it was 28 degrees out. What was important to him is that the team sponsors get seen. As much fun as it is to ride, at this level it's business.

DirtDiva

05-14-2005, 10:01 AM

Hi there... the wearing of cycle helmets has been a legal requirement here for everyone on a bike for a few years now, and has greatly reduced head injuries in our hospitals

I guess it was easy to introduce because the wearing of helmets on motorcycles has been law for years and years.

RR
Aotearoa New Zealand

I'm pretty sure it was the early 90's. Around the time I was in intermediate school at any rate. Wearing helmets was in *all* schools' school rules for years before it became a legal requirement to wear one. It scares me no end seeing people riding around central London with no helmet! :eek:

LBTC

05-14-2005, 10:02 AM

ah! The light goes on! :) That makes perfect sense now!

DH said you're in Bike mag...I'll check it out!

Namaste,
~T~

spazzdog

05-14-2005, 10:45 AM

I asked my live-in policeman about the laws here in Medford MA... he said it is a law that kids 12 and under HAVE to ride a helmet. It just is rarely inforced. Too much "real crime" to take care of I guess.

I'll try to get more info from him later. He was on his way out to a detail when I snagged him for the answer this morning.

spazz

CorsairMac

05-14-2005, 10:56 AM

It doesn't help tho for the younger generation to see the Pro riders riding without helmets. Take a look at some of the team training pixs from this past winter and you'll see quite a few of the Discovery boys without helmets. And the TdF last year, most of them (if not all?) did the big climbs with no helmets and if the kids were watching that, you better betcha they noticed it. There were even scenes with the riders tearing their helmets off as soon as the rules allowed and tossing them off to the side if they couldn't find their team car. Not a very good message.

RoadRaven

05-14-2005, 01:54 PM

I can understand pro-racers in an organsied race chucking their helmets away when they head up hills - it gets so hot under there and they dehydrate more rapidly. But it scares me when they go downhill helmetless...

My kids know that this is an organised section of a race and they never go out, even into the front paddock, without helmets... but we have lots of talks about safety and they often comment on things they have seen (like kids wearing helmets with straps undone).

We also have two helmets in the shed on the wall, my sons with stone indentations, and mine with a piece the size of my fist missing from the back.

But I whole-heartedly agree Corsair, what about the kids that watch and that is the only message they get - no discussion around why, or about the associated risks with that choice...

And tlkiwi... hey there you - hope you're enjoying spring in London - beautiful balmy almost-winter day here, hoping for 18' today :p Yeah, I think that it was early/mid 90's the helmet rule came in. Damn good thing too.

DirtDiva

05-14-2005, 03:07 PM

I was talking to my parents the other day and they've been having warmer weather than I have - 20ish in Chch vs. 15ish here! :mad: There have been some nice days, but none of them have been this week.

spazzdog

05-14-2005, 06:11 PM

UCI regulations require that they wear helmets on the descent. If theres a down following the up, they gotta put them back on. They can only chuck them for good at the end if the race ends on a climb.

I think that rule change followed the death(s) of riders in some of the premier races.

spazz

Crankin

05-15-2005, 10:35 AM

What irks me the most is the thing with kids riding with helmets and the parents have none. I see this constantly in my neighborhood, with parents who are so overprotective of their kids that they drive 16 year olds to the bus stop in a cul-de-sac. Most of the time, the kids have the helmets on incorrectly, too; pushed way back on their head. I stop them occaisonally and say something, but the parents give me a look like I am the devil. My husband has had 2 crashes where he cracked his helmet and he is sure he would be brain damaged had he not been wearing one. I teach in a middle school, and none of the kids wear helmets. If they have one, it's hanging from the handlebars or on their head unstrapped. This is after the school started giving free ones to any kid who couldn't afford one, too.

RoadRaven

05-16-2005, 11:18 AM

That seems almost tragic, that the school would give the helmets and kids still not wear them
:(

I know in a democracy that rules are not supposed to impinge on individual rights etc... and I acknowledge that NZ is probab;y one of the most over-regulated countries in the western world, but making wearing of helmets compulsorary is a damn good thing and I am glad we have no choice here.

Deanna

05-16-2005, 12:25 PM

I don't understand why they don't just make a law... preferably a federal law that states "under 16 helmet required". Put it out there like a child protective thing and what legislator would have the cojones to vote nay.

I know they won't pass one for adults because adults are supposed to have common sense... heck NH doesn't require motorcyclists to wear helmets; which I think is soooooo stupid. Been there, done that (when I was 18-19) and now I go on the "sweat is cheaper than skin grafts" theory.

spazz-bouncing off the little soapbox

There is such a law in California. I believe helmets are required for anybody under 18, but it could be 16. And you are correct, it would not pass for adults. It drives me crazy to see a young kid in a childs seat on the back of a bicyle being ridden by a parent without a helmet. I want to run up and ask them who will take care of the kid if it survives a crash and they don't because their head got smashed like a watermelon.

DeniseGoldberg

05-16-2005, 12:34 PM

I have all I can do not to stop and talk to people when I see riders without helmets - to encourage them to wear helmets. I'm afraid my comments wouldn't be accepted too well, but maybe I'm just being a chicken.

I know that when you fall you don't always hit your head, but I'm not willing to take that chance myself. In fact, I probably err on the other side since if I stop for a break on a ride my helmet usually stays on my head. I forget I have it on, and I have been given some funny looks when I walk into a store still "dressed" in my helmet.

--- Denise

Surlygirl

05-16-2005, 06:08 PM

In my house, no helmet, no bike, motorized or not. If I catch you without one, say goodbye to your bikes. Its been the rule since they've been old enough to ride. Since they've always had to wear them I don't get any grief. It drives me crazy to see families on outings and not wearing helmets. How can the kids learn if the parents don't wear them.
I think Mass has a kids under 12 helmet law but who knows if anyone enforces it.

singletrackmind

05-16-2005, 06:25 PM

I have all I can do not to stop and talk to people when I see riders without helmets - to encourage them to wear helmets. I'm afraid my comments wouldn't be accepted too well, but maybe I'm just being a chicken.

Not chicken, it is hard to mention helmet use to a complete stranger. I usually work up the nerve to say something about 20% of the time. Sometimes I'll tell a dude a helmet would look cool on him, or simply say 'Helmet??' to someone as I'm riding by, as in where's your-. Rarely I end up chatting to someone as I'm helping them with a mechanical. That's a great time-talk about a captive audience who's willing to at least pretend to pay attention to what you're saying! I'll also compliment a kid who's wearing one and then ask the parent 'where's yours?'. I try hard to keep my tone as non-judgemental as possible. For a lot of people it's a simple matter of education. For the rest it's Darwin. Too bad it's their kids they're using as bait for natural selection. :(

Trek420

05-16-2005, 06:42 PM

singletrackmind "For the rest it's Darwin. Too bad it's their kids they're using as bait for natural selection. :("

as they say, no brain, no pain.

What's unfortunate is accidents make the news, parents use that as an argument that the kids should not ride, in most cases the accident would not have been fatal if the rider had a brain lid.

As others have said it's not just the kids. I took a call at work the other day from a gal in her 80's, not sure how the subject came up but her husband is a bay area rider. She said he never wore a helmet. 80+ years young and he'd be riding still but took a fall and suffered a fatal head injury.

On the other hand our family friend Bill McGee was wearing a lid when he had just a freak accident. 79, a very experienced rider he was decending, either he touched a wheel in front of him or vice versa, he knew what to do then so did the other rider, they should never have fallen but they did. His buddy got scrapes, Bill died. He was an incredible guy.

http://www.peaceandjusticesonomaco.org/billmcgee.html

nuthatch

05-17-2005, 03:01 AM

How very sad about Bill McGee! Sounds like he still had so much to give the world.

My mother told me one of her good friends (in her 60's) has a very aggressive form of brain cancer that the doctors are tracing back to a childhood head injury. You may be able to get up and walk away when you're young but it's just not worth having a head injury on any level! Wear your helmets, kids!!!

singletrackmind

05-17-2005, 05:41 AM

I suppose like seatbelts helmets don't guarantee life and freedom from injury but they save more brains more often than not by either lessening the severity of trauma or eliminating it. Sometimes our sport and sanity saver takes a great person no matter what we do. True of everything in life. I am sorry to hear about Bill McGee and I am glad he was able up to the last to do what he enjoyed. :)

Trek420

05-17-2005, 07:02 AM

Yeah, the thought occurs to me that to go at 70-80+ years old doing the sport you most love, and being able to be active at that level for that long...that's not bad if I can train till then and I plan to be "a lifer".

It doesn't make it any easier on those left behind but what a way to go, and what a life! If we stay indoors these accidents can't happen but think of all we miss.

Bike Goddess

05-17-2005, 03:41 PM

Okay- I'm going to get my two cents in here.

Sunday, May 15th, a fellow in my bicycle club crashed on the way down from the summit of Mt Diablo (a very tall mountain here in the SF Bay Area). Although we don't know all of the details, his wife said that if it hadn't been for his helmet he wouldn't have made it. As it is, he was in Intensive Care overnight and may still be in the hospital today.

We think (no one saw him go down) from seeing the front tire in the truck that brought him down the mountain, that he had a flat on that tire. If this is true, then the accident makes sense. If YOU LOOSE YOUR FRONT TIRE you are toast! Always have a GOOD TIRE on the front wheel of your bike.

When I ride, I try to remember to check my tires BEFORE descending for this very reason. I have avoided two front flats from this practice. Yes, he could have picked up something on the way down, we don't know. But it doesn't hurt to be on the cautious side. Also when descending it's a good idea to check the inflation of your tires to make sure no leaky tires- I just bounce the front and back tires while standing. (use that time to eat/drink. etc.)

I mention this in the California section as the women who look at that area of the Forums know where this occurred. I'll keep you all posted over on that thread.

P.S. Spazz- you are one of the experts here. Anything else to add?

DeniseGoldberg

05-17-2005, 04:02 PM

...We think (no one saw him go down) from seeing the front tire in the truck that brought him down the mountain, that he had a flat on that tire. If this is true, then the accident makes sense.

We should all remember that crashes happen with no reason too. It's quite possible that a flat caused the crash - but I can tell you from experience, there's not always a reason. Emily can tell you how she crashed (ouch!), but I have no idea what caused me to flip my bike and land on my head a year ago. I've been back over that section of road, and there are cracks in the pavement, and it's likely there was stuff on the road. But a reason? Couldn't tell you. I'm not trying to be a fatalist, but sometimes **** just happens. I'm sure I wouldn't be here today if I hadn't been wearing my helmet - just like Bike Goddess's bike club fellow.

--- Denise

spazzdog

05-17-2005, 04:56 PM

Nothing to add except this:

Always wear a brain bucket unless you are 100% sure that you're not gonna land on your head, your god is riding tandem AND you are certain there is nothing/nobody out on the road that might affect the direction your bike may travel unexpectantly.

Other than than no brain - no helmet - no headache... early demise.

spazz

RoadRaven

05-17-2005, 06:46 PM

We should all remember that crashes happen with no reason too. It's quite possible that a flat caused the crash - but I can tell you from experience, there's not always a reason. Emily can tell you how she crashed (ouch!), but I have no idea what caused me to flip my bike and land on my head a year ago. I've been back over that section of road, and there are cracks in the pavement, and it's likely there was stuff on the road. But a reason? Couldn't tell you. I'm not trying to be a fatalist, but sometimes **** just happens. I'm sure I wouldn't be here today if I hadn't been wearing my helmet - just like Bike Goddess's bike club fellow.

--- Denise

Yeah... my biggest/ worst crash earlier this year was a combination of factors, and possibly could be avoided now because of the knowledge I gained... riding around a corner at a faster speed then usual cause I was sucking a small groups wheels, a small skiff had left the road slightly wet before we came through, my back tire slipped sideways, I nudged the curb and hit the ground doing 38+km per hour.
Perhaps it would be different if I did it again, but maybe not... I don't know

The cause of a crash is sometimes indefinable or difficult to pinpoint

My helmet had a piece the size of a fist hanging free
Always wear a helmet