Fit: weight ratio between saddle and handlebars

[Ana]

While I'm on my bike, I cannot let go of my handlebars without falling forward...what could this mean and does anyone else have this issue? How did you fix it (shorter cranks, shorter stem, moving saddle forward)? :confused:

I have always felt that I had too much weight on my hands/handlebars. Are my shoulders supposed to be aligned as if I am standing regularly or do they flex forward while I am on my bike (as is natural if I extend my arms in front of me)?

I admit that although I do not have a six-pack, my abs are not weak. I am able to support my upper body on my commuter bike (a small Trek Mountain Track--14.5") without using the handlebars.

I would love to hear all your thoughts (and/or pictures) regarding this! :D

[RolliePollie]

What type of bike and what type of handlebars? That info might help folks answer your question. :)

[kermit]

It could be as simple as tweaking the nose of the saddle up. It could also be a reach issue and you need a shorter stem. What kind of bike?

[Ana]

Oh right. I'm riding my road bike (LeMond Tourmalet) with drops, Shimano 105.

I tried moving the seat back a bit and that seemed to help the fit although I have yet to take a long-ish ride with this modification :)

[Kalidurga]

There are many other ladies here who are way more knowledgeable about fit issues than I am, but one thing I believe you want to avoid is moving your saddle fore & aft. Saddle placement should be determined by the position of your knees relative to your cranks, and then left alone. Reach issues are probably better dealt with through a shorter stem or even by raising your bars.

Anyone out there want to confirm/correct this info, or explain it better?

[aicabsolut]

A rule of thumb is to put your saddle as far forward as you can without falling if you let go of the bars, then check the position of your knee relative to the pedal spindle. But if the saddle is pointed too far downward, then that could be shifting your weight too far forward. Check the nose angle, and if that's good (like moving it up would be uncomfortable to sit on), then move the saddle back.

[Ana]

I try to keep my saddle level so I am relatively sure it's not tilted down in front.

I've already tried a shorter stem and it felt weird but maybe I will have to go back :p

[VeloVT]

Ana, it sounds like there's a lot going on here. Have you had a professional fitting recently? If not, it might be worth a try.

[Ana]

I'm looking into a fitting...but I would rather not spend $200 right now and I'm considering saving for a custom bike instead... :D If I save diligently I might be able to have one in about 2-3 years which would be awesome :D

I know that a fitting would probably do me a world of good but I would like to find someone I trust who will give me what I want instead of underestimating me because I am a woman or an inexperienced rider :p When I go to the store where I bought my bike, I always feel like they're trying to sell me something and that the sales staff are insincere.

I know a proper fitting would greatly improve my ride but I have trouble justifying the expense on such expertise unless I find someone whom I trust. I'm considering going to the my local Seven dealer where I could also test ride a Seven ;)

[VeloVT]

With my new bike, I spent $150 on a PT fitting and $75 on a bike shop fitting. Of the two, the bike shop fitting was much more useful. (That's not saying anything bad about PT fittings, I just got unlucky). There's a shop nearby that sells only custom lines and their fittings are around $250...


I don't know anything about prices in Ann Arbor, of course, but I wouldn't be surprised if you could find a decent fitting somewhere for well under $200. Worth calling around anyway, if you haven't.

[bounceswoosh]

I'm looking into a fitting...but I would rather not spend $200 right now and I'm considering saving for a custom bike instead... :D If I save diligently I might be able to have one in about 2-3 years which would be awesome :D

I know that a fitting would probably do me a world of good but I would like to find someone I trust who will give me what I want instead of underestimating me because I am a woman or an inexperienced rider :p When I go to the store where I bought my bike, I always feel like they're trying to sell me something and that the sales staff are insincere.

I know a proper fitting would greatly improve my ride but I have trouble justifying the expense on such expertise unless I find someone whom I trust. I'm considering going to the my local Seven dealer where I could also test ride a Seven ;)

I agree you should absolutely find someone you trust who treats you with respect --

That being said, if I were considering a truly custom bike, I would first want to know that I had the best possible fit on my current bike. Otherwise, how do you know that the specs of your custom bike are really the best for you?

[kermit]

I would invest in the fit for now if I were you. You need to make sure that you are not tweaked so far out that you wind up with a problem that will turn to an injury. Instead of your LBS who don't sound like they have your best interests at heart, look for a local trainer or club that might know of a fitter.

[Ana]

I agree you should absolutely find someone you trust who treats you with respect --

That being said, if I were considering a truly custom bike, I would first want to know that I had the best possible fit on my current bike. Otherwise, how do you know that the specs of your custom bike are really the best for you?

Oh, it's true! :( All right, a fitting it is... :p

[Ana]

I've decided to get a fitting but I do not care for the shop from which I purchased my bicycle. They are also out of the way, although my annual tuneups are free so I try to hike out there/take the bus twice a year. :p

I do not have a vehicle (my bicycle is my primary mode of transportation) but can cycle to another shop which I generally like.

Which of the following would you be more inclined to do:

1) Pay $200 for a full-fitting down the street (literally 3-4 blocks) that is "guaranteed." They are a certified Seven and Serotta dealer.

2) Go 15 miles to a local bicycle shop for a $60/hour fitting or a $150 full-fitting. They also deal Independent Fabrication bicycles.

Any thoughts? :D Or recommendations for shops/fitters in the Ann Arbor area (I posted another thread (http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?p=368704#post368704) in open cycling topics already)?

Thanks! :)

[VeloVT]

Hmmm... it depends on what each fitting includes, and whether you need it. And, of course, how much of a sacrifice an extra $50 or $100.

Is that $60 for a one-hour fitting, or do they charge $60 per hour and take as long as necessary?

Is there someone experienced whom you trust in the shop with the $60/hour fitting? If so, that may really be all you need for now. You can cover a lot in an hour. As I said, my $75 fitting (which lasted 1.5 hours) was very, very helpful, much more helpful than the $150 fitting I had first. I think this is because the man who fitted me has been doing it for 30 years and just has lots and lots of experience. By contrast, the $150 fitting was done by a PT in his mid-30s, and while I don't know how long he has been doing bike fits as part of his PT business, I'll bet it's a lot less time. Come to think about it, the shop that did the fitting for me is also a Serotta dealer (though that's a very, very small part of their business I think), and they are certified Serotta fitters as well as certified Specialized fitters. But even more importantly than that, the man I worked with has been riding, selling and fitting bikes for a very long time.

Actually, the shop that did my fitting actually had a few more involved and more expensive fitting options... and if I had either intractable problems or very specific goals, I might have opted for one of them, but it wasn't really necessary for me at the time. You may find the same is true for you...

[Ana]

Thank you for your input! :D

Admittedly, I have very little experience in exploring the fitting experience and depth of fitting knowledge in the shops I am considering now. I have only found 1 LBS I really like and they do very informal fittings and are very far away on a busy road. I like their staff a lot and to give them my business but I'm not sure they offer the caliber of service for my OCDness.

I do not frequent the shop 15 miles away, mostly because it's quite far for me to go without a car and without my fit problems being resolved (and my endurance is not very good anymore)--neck and shoulder pain, heachaches, etc.

The shop 15 miles away has been open for 5 years. Here (http://www.dexterbikeandsport.com/cycling2.htm) is a link to their site.

I know very little about the shop that deals Serotta and Seven but they seem like they know what they're doing. Perhaps I will e-mail the guy who offered to do my fitting and ask him about his credentials? Here (http://www.rideboutique.com/fitting.html) is a link to the site.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated! :)

I really want to get on one of those adjustable fit devices :) I think they've got to be great tools for tweaking fit! :D

[aicabsolut]

Really, this fix shouldn't be that hard. Set your bike up on a trainer. Move your saddle back a few mm. Sit on it. See if you can support your weight if you take your hands off the bars. It shouldn't take a crazy amount of core strength, though, yeah, you won't be able to do a lot without sitting upright. Just test to see if that feeling of falling on your face goes away. If not, move the saddle back some more. Try again. Do it until you find that spot. Then put a plumb bob on a string and with your foot at 3 o'clock, drop the line from about the center of your kneecap. If you're significantly far back (several cm) from the pedal axle, then you might need more of a total fit overhaul. If you're close to the pedal axle, then this is probably a good position to try out on the road.

If you've moved your saddle back a lot, then you're going to want to spin for a bit to see how comfortable the reach to the pedals is behind the knee. You might want to lower the seat a little bit to compensate. (not the same amount as the aft movement--try a couple mm at a time).

[Ana]

I'll make small adjustments myself and to see if it will the resolve the problems I'm having. A stem swap will probably be in order if I move my seat back.

One of the reasons I'd like to see a fitter is because I'm afraid my frameset might be too big for me overall, perhaps so much so that my bicycle really does not (and may not be able to) fit me well. :p But I do not feel that I am able to make that distinction with my lack of experience and while on the bike.

I'm going to keep looking into a professional fitting thing though :)

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

I had this whole weight balance problem for 2 years on my other bike. The frame wasn't 'too big' but the geometry was just wrong for me. Husband has the exact same bike (larger though) and the geometry fits him perfectly.
Tweaked everything possible over 2 years to get it to fit me right but in the end even with all the little improvements, I still have too much forward weight on that bike.
I got a custom bike made to my measurements, and now my weight feels nicely balanced. No more falling on my face feeling, no more elbow pain.
It's a huge relief and a joy to feel my center of gravity balanced in a good place.
Some people get good results from fittings and tweakings. But if either a bike's geometry or size is poorly suited to you, there's only so much correction possible by changing stems, bars, saddle position, etc... sometimes it's all just not quite enough to make a particular bike fit right.

[Ana]

I had this whole weight balance problem for 2 years on my other bike. The frame wasn't 'too big' but the geometry was just wrong for me. Husband has the exact same bike (larger though) and the geometry fits him perfectly.
Tweaked everything possible over 2 years to get it to fit me right but in the end even with all the little improvements, I still have too much forward weight on that bike.
I got a custom bike made to my measurements, and now my weight feels nicely balanced. No more falling on my face feeling, no more elbow pain.
It's a huge relief and a joy to feel my center of gravity balanced in a good place.
Some people get good results from fittings and tweakings. But if either a bike's geometry or size is poorly suited to you, there's only so much correction possible by changing stems, bars, saddle position, etc... sometimes it's all just not quite enough to make a particular bike fit right.

How did you realize the geometry just wasn't right for you? Did you get fitted? What convinced you that the geometry wouldn't work with your body measurements, no matter what you did? :) I just need some guidance as to where to draw the line...

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

How did you realize the geometry just wasn't right for you? Did you get fitted?

Because the frame SIZE was ok- not too big, not too small. I had the right size frame- according to the manufacturer's charts and also according to the knowledgeable dealer for that manufacturer, who fitted the bike to me when I got it and looked me over and said I looked just right and the size was good. The size felt right to me as well. But my weight fell forward all the time and I felt unbalanced and uncomfortable. It was a subtle thing.
Yes, I didn't really know how I was 'supposed' to feel, and it took months of riding when I first got the bike for me to realize something was not right. I hadn't been on a bike since I was a kid!
But after a thousand miles or so I knew that I was supposed to feel balanced and easy, not like I was falling on my face all the time.


What convinced you that the geometry wouldn't work with your body measurements, no matter what you did? :)

Because the geometry wouldn't work with my body measurements, no matter what we did. ;)
Seriously- because no matter what we did I could not get my center of gravity back far enough to feel balanced. As a result I felt I could not get enough power behind my pedaling, and also despite sufficient core strength, I could not ride no-hands sitting upright even for a few seconds- I kept falling forward back onto my hands. I also had elbow pain when riding.
We tweaked EVERYTHING over two years, by the way...various stems, different handlebars, various hood placements, for/aft saddle positions, bar height,.... We tested all fit possibilities, and gave each tweak or change a couple of months riding to evaluate it carefully. My DH knows a lot about bike geometry and fit.

The bike is a quality bike, and many many people love this exact same bike and are totally comfortable on it. (my husband for example)
We have it tweaked into its best possible fit for me, and I can certainly ride it whenever I want to. I love the bike, but it's not as much fun for me to ride because of that off-balance feeling, which I notice right away when I get on it. Plus, I get my elbow pain back when I ride it for more than an hour.
Getting back on my custom bike is a huge relief and feels so right.

[aicabsolut]

Unless you are moving your saddle back over a couple cm, you probably won't need a new stem. Even if you do move it back that far, you may find that you still feel comfortable with the reach just because you aren't leaning so hard on the bars. Before you buy a new stem, you could try adjusting the angle of your current stem to bring the bars up and a little closer to you. If that makes them too high, remove some spacers and then angle the stem up.

You also asked about what your shoulder/arm profile should look like on a road bike. Here are some examples of my positioning (note that I am not claiming that I have perfect positioning--in fact, my positioning is a bit abnormal in that when I race I have a lot of elbow bend and my bars are a bit high--not aggressive saddle to bar drop--but it's still what's comfortable for me).

Relaxed in the drops
http://photos-b.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-snc1/v273/172/108/5300096/n5300096_36115465_9477.jpg

Crit racing in the drops (I'm sitting pretty far forward, though my saddle hasn't moved)
http://photos-f.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-snc1/v272/102/66/609145015/n609145015_1316053_1934.jpg

Relaxed, on the hoods, compared to a friend with more aggressive positioning
http://photos-g.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-snc1/v273/172/108/5300096/n5300096_36115446_2334.jpg


TT effort, climbing, on the hoods
http://photos-e.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v190/172/108/5300096/n5300096_34913108_8976.jpg

[fidlfreek]

Great pics!!

I dunno about you guys but I got a reference from a friend and showed up at the bike shop with fresh baked cookies for the friend's friend and got a fitting and tire changing lesson for free (slow day so he spent 2 hrs w/ me!)...I did end up buying a $120 saddle from him later that month so his helpfulness paid off in the longer term.

Ana, do you have local cycling friends who could help set you up w/ a connection like this? :D