Any baker's out there who understand...

[Brandi]

The science of baking?
I am trying to perfect a cookie and the one thing I am having trouble with is the chewy side of the cookie. What makes a cookie chewy? I am perfecting a spicey ginger cookie (ginger snap) I need the snap!

[Eden]

I will try to wrangle up the exact place to find this, but if you've ever seen "Good Eats" (a cooking show on the food network) Alton Brown did a whole episode on the different ways to make cookies and how they are different. He used chocolate chip cookies as his example and did crisp cookies, chewy cookies, fluffy cookies, but the principals are totally transferable to other kinds of cookies.

found it!
http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/show_ea/episode/0,1976,FOOD_9956_17114,00.html

the different cookie recipes are here - too bad you can't see the episode here too..

[Brandi]

I will try to wrangle up the exact place to find this, but if you've ever seen "Good Eats" (a cooking show on the food network) Alton Brown did a whole episode on the different ways to make cookies and how they are different. He used chocolate chip cookies as his example and did crisp cookies, chewy cookies, fluffy cookies, but the principals are totally transferable to other kinds of cookies.

found it!
http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/show_ea/episode/0,1976,FOOD_9956_17114,00.html

the different cookie recipes are here - too bad you can't see the episode here too..Oh thank you. i already know what I am going to do different with my next batch. I love Alton he is fun to watch. I have learned so much from watching him.

[Eden]

One thing I don't see in Alton's recipes is one that uses oil - my favorite ginger snaps (not that I make.... but MiDel Organic ones..) use canola oil instead of butter or shortening. They are very crisp cookies, but turn delightfully chewy when dunked in hot tea.

[VeloVT]

How do they differ? I wish they said that instead of making you compare all three recipes! (I'm lazy).

I was guessing more eggs maybe?

[Eden]

Different fats - the chewy and thin ones use butter, but the chewy ones use melted butter, while thin use room temp butter, the fluffy use shortening.

different leavening - the chewy and thin ones use baking soda, fluffy baking powder (and cake flour rather than regular)

chewy and thin also use milk and eggs and fluffy no liquid or egg, chewy has an extra egg yolk

[smilingcat]

Several good books on science of baking.

"Cookwise" by Shirley O. Corriher
"On Food and Cooking" by Harold McGee (now in second edition great reference for a pros and foodie)
"Baking and Pastry" by CIA Culinary Institute of America professional text book explains whys of baking. soda + creme of tartar vs powder etc. How to get the golden brown color or not.

Three of my favorite cookbooks

"The Secrets of Baking" by Sherry Yard (laminate recipe is by far the best and very forgiving. level: beginning to pro)

"Tartine" by Elisabeth M. Prueitt and Chad Robertson level: beginning to pro
"Betty Crocker's Cooky Book" 1963 edition. It has old recipes I just love. level: beginning

-----------------

As for the texture, I saw Alton Brown's show really concise and informative.

If you are not sure or can't get that episode, the information came directly out of "Cookwise" (just don't depend on her recipes. She may know the science but her recipe is bit of hit or miss).

One thing missing in Cookwise or Alton Brown's show is a discussion on temperature of the dough. It has a big effect on the final product. Another big ?? is the baking temperature. I always keep two thermometer in the oven. And I sometimes adjust the temperature profile during baking to get what I want. Lower temp and longer makes the dough run and dry out. High temp for short time then reducing to finish makes the cookie thick.

Flour choice for home use in order of softest/no structural body to CHEWY (low gluten to highest gluten content).

cake flour
pastry flour
AP flour
bread flour

Baking is fairly exact science so pay attention to measuring out your ingredients.

If you are experimenting, change the type of sugar, flour, temperature profile while baking, adding milk or not ... When you do make changes to the recipe change only one or two items at a time.

Shortning gives it that cheap bakery good taste. I refuse to use it. And don't substitute butter with margerine or the other way around. Not the same at all !! Always use unsalted butter in baking.

[sundial]

I am perfecting a spicey ginger cookie (ginger snap) I need the snap!

I think you need to ship some here to test for quality. ;)

[bmccasland]

One of the troubles I've had comes from moving around the country.
High elevation / low elevation
arid / humid

And combinations thereof. Crisp cookies do not stay crisp in a humid place (like swamp country). :p

[Brandi]

Different fats - the chewy and thin ones use butter, but the chewy ones use melted butter, while thin use room temp butter, the fluffy use shortening.

different leavening - the chewy and thin ones use baking soda, fluffy baking powder (and cake flour rather than regular)

chewy and thin also use milk and eggs and fluffy no liquid or egg, chewy has an extra egg yolk And didn't the chewy use a different flour too?

[Brandi]

Several good books on science of baking.

"Cookwise" by Shirley O. Corriher
"On Food and Cooking" by Harold McGee (now in second edition great reference for a pros and foodie)
"Baking and Pastry" by CIA Culinary Institute of America professional text book explains whys of baking. soda + creme of tartar vs powder etc. How to get the golden brown color or not.

Three of my favorite cookbooks

"The Secrets of Baking" by Sherry Yard (laminate recipe is by far the best and very forgiving. level: beginning to pro)

"Tartine" by Elisabeth M. Prueitt and Chad Robertson level: beginning to pro
"Betty Crocker's Cooky Book" 1963 edition. It has old recipes I just love. level: beginning

-----------------

As for the texture, I saw Alton Brown's show really concise and informative.

If you are not sure or can't get that episode, the information came directly out of "Cookwise" (just don't depend on her recipes. She may know the science but her recipe is bit of hit or miss).

One thing missing in Cookwise or Alton Brown's show is a discussion on temperature of the dough. It has a big effect on the final product. Another big ?? is the baking temperature. I always keep two thermometer in the oven. And I sometimes adjust the temperature profile during baking to get what I want. Lower temp and longer makes the dough run and dry out. High temp for short time then reducing to finish makes the cookie thick.

Flour choice for home use in order of softest/no structural body to CHEWY (low gluten to highest gluten content).

cake flour
pastry flour
AP flour
bread flour

Baking is fairly exact science so pay attention to measuring out your ingredients.

If you are experimenting, change the type of sugar, flour, temperature profile while baking, adding milk or not ... When you do make changes to the recipe change only one or two items at a time.

Shortning gives it that cheap bakery good taste. I refuse to use it. And don't substitute butter with margerine or the other way around. Not the same at all !! Always use unsalted butter in baking.

Wow thank you so much for all your advice! A couple things I have learned...I have to keep the batter cold at all times to get that wonderful crackle look on the ginger cookie. And shortening is not the way to go!
And thank you for the advice on the butter with no salt! So why is that?
My next batch I am going to use maybe pastry flour and try melting the butter. WOuld I bring the butter to room temp after melting it?
I am going to look inot your books you recommend. Probably the cia one.
I am trying to copy a cookie I have evry year when I am in Pueblo. The most wonderful baker is there. She went to the Cia as well. And once got to make dessert for Julia Childs. And she asked for secounds which was the thrill of her life.
I tried to pry the recipe out of her but she would only give me little hints. I have for years always made my grandmother's snaps which have a big place in my heart of coarse. So my base is her recipe.

[Brandi]

I think you need to ship some here to test for quality. ;) I should! But dh says he isn't suffering yet from all the tast testing I am making him do!

[sundial]

Well.......can you at least share pictures of your ginger snaps? Oh why can't this be scratch and sniff?

[Brandi]

I will see what I can do about having a picture.

[wackyjacky1]

What are you using to sweeten the cookies? I find that molasses keeps gingerbread cookies nice and chewy.

edit: oh, wait...I'm not clear if you want them chewy or if you want them crunchy?

[blueskies]

Don't know if this will help you with the ginger snaps, but your post reminded me of an article I'd read about a quest to find the perfect chocolate chip cookie. Warning: reading this will make you crave chocolate chip cookies!

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/09/dining/09chip.html?scp=1&sq=best%20chocolate%20chip%20cookie&st=cse

[smilingcat]

Hi Brandi,

If you were to get only one of the reference books, get "Cookwise". She does a good job of explaining techniques and whys. And its written for all level and for all settings (home to commercial).

CIA book is really geared for professional baking and the recipes are for commercial size. The measurements are in so many oz of eggs, so many grams of powder ... They do have great photos of what cremed butter looks like and what it looks like if it is over-cremed. They have other really good photos of what stiff peak looks like... When you get into commercial size so many medium or large eggs just doesn't cut it. Besides, you would go bonkers keeping track of 16 eggs, 16 cups of flour, 24 cups of oatmeal... Weighing gets to be much easier.

Of the three cookbooks, you may want to pruse through "Secrets of Baking" or "Tartine".
Sherry Yard was an executive pastry chef at Spagos. and she walks you through the steps of baking and explains some finer points of baking. Tartine is one of the best bakeries in San Francisco. The collection of recipes in Tartine are quite good.

now about melting the butter first. Can you tell me the recipe and what you are trying to do. I'm bit concerned. only time when you melt butter is when you make Choux pastries (Eclairs, creme puffs, gaugere a savory puff and such).

This is my side business.

Smilingcat