rustbucket back into a commuter?

[mayanorange]

I've started train/bike commuting a couple times a week and have been taking my roadie. It's only about .6 miles to the train from home, then 2 miles from the train to work. Both have lots of lights, so I'm not sure I like being clipped in for it- plus carrying the weight of shoes. And I got stuck in the rain the other day, which makes me nervous with my roadie- I dried it off once I got home.

So my question is DH has a ~6 yr old Scott MTB with slicks that has been sat outside untouched for 3 yrs that would fit me (we're the same size). Is it totally destroyed? The chain is rusted, the cartridge looks rusty, the cables and some bolts too. The rims and seatpost must be aluminum- they're shiny and new looking. It also has a front suspension- the rubber over the shocks looks dead- does that mean the shocks might have been compromised?

[Crankin]

Are you taking your bike on the commuter rail? How is that working out? When I came home from class (Porter Square) Thursday night, there were 3 people with bikes on the train. One, a kid, was struggling to get it down the stairs when he got off. Another guy had bars so wide, he hit me as he was rolling his bike past my seat!
Just wondering. I am getting up the courage to ride my bike to the station (5 miles) and leave it locked up at the bike store, and then ride home in the dark...
Not sure about the clothing issue, either. I just can't ride in regular clothes, but it seems silly to change for a 5 mile ride.

[mayanorange]

Cranklin- yeah, I took the commuter rail from wellesley to worcester. There was actually lots of people with bikes both directions. It was a bit hairy carrying my bike up the metal stairs with road shoes and cleats on :eek: but then at worcester, it was a level platform. It was narrow enough, you really have to keep one hand on the handlebars to steer your way through and the other hand holding it on your shoulder, so no hands for railings. Most people were helpful if I was struggling. I was worried I might beat my bike into things around those narrow and doubly doored corners! Make sure you look for the handicapped areas where the seats flip up- they're on both kinds of cars. Once I get in, I've been taking my bike up to the lab with me- there are racks in the garage, but this is the same garage they had a rash of GPS thefts in a couple months ago. :rolleyes: Yet another reason to clean up DH's as a beater.

PS- I went out to look at it and it is a Scott Purgatory, which seems to be a precursor to the Sportster hybrid. Maybe I'll take some cleaner to it and see if there's pitting in the metal.

[mudmucker]

Cranklin- yeah, I took the commuter rail from wellesley to worcester. There was actually lots of people with bikes both directions. It was a bit hairy carrying my bike up the metal stairs with road shoes and cleats on :eek: but then at worcester, it was a level platform. It was narrow enough, you really have to keep one hand on the handlebars to steer your way through and the other hand holding it on your shoulder, so no hands for railings. Most people were helpful if I was struggling. I was worried I might beat my bike into things around those narrow and doubly doored corners! Make sure you look for the handicapped areas where the seats flip up- they're on both kinds of cars. Once I get in, I've been taking my bike up to the lab with me- there are racks in the garage, but this is the same garage they had a rash of GPS thefts in a couple months ago. :rolleyes: Yet another reason to clean up DH's as a beater.

PS- I went out to look at it and it is a Scott Purgatory, which seems to be a precursor to the Sportster hybrid. Maybe I'll take some cleaner to it and see if there's pitting in the metal.

Sure, I'd give it a go and salvage it. Especially that it sounds like it'll be a commuter beater bike? I'd get a new chain for sure. To remove rust I don't use solvent. I've used steel wool on some components like an old freewheel (you say cartridge in your post but did you mean cassette/freewheel?) But you may want to get a new one depending on how much pitting there is. I will also use a fine wire sander to put on the end of a drill and I'll wire sand the rust off. I've done this for chrome parts, and have salvaged rusty pedals, and bolts this way. If the pitting is deep, the rust will come back but you can keep on top of it and maybe put WD40 on it in the meantime.

[mayanorange]

Sure, I'd give it a go and salvage it. Especially that it sounds like it'll be a commuter beater bike? I'd get a new chain for sure. To remove rust I don't use solvent. I've used steel wool on some components like an old freewheel (you say cartridge in your post but did you mean cassette/freewheel?) But you may want to get a new one depending on how much pitting there is. I will also use a fine wire sander to put on the end of a drill and I'll wire sand the rust off. I've done this for chrome parts, and have salvaged rusty pedals, and bolts this way. If the pitting is deep, the rust will come back but you can keep on top of it and maybe put WD40 on it in the meantime.

MM- Yes, commuter, and yeah, I meant cassette.

I just pulled it inside to look at the damage better- Brakes and brake cables are fine, frame is fine, seatpost and headset (quilled) seem fine. Chain is dead. Cassette and derailleurs look salvageable. Looks like I'd need new shifter cables, but the it shifts (things moved when I clicked the shifters, but I didn't want to force it with the chain being frozen). Hard to tell about the front gears- at least the big gear looks like a couple of teeth might be damaged (tips shortened). I'd need to get the chain off to see the rest. Rims are fine, but a few of the spokes have some rust- might just be surface, they feel rather strong. I cut the rotted rubber off the shocks- there's a smidge of rust under there on one side, but it looks like stainless, so it should come off. I slathered some naval jelly on the rusted bits and will see how it looks tomorrow.

How do I tell if the BB and wheel bearings are okay? And how can I be sure the gears will be okay? (I guess more importantly, will I die if a tooth busts while riding?:rolleyes:)

[mudmucker]

MM- Yes, commuter, and yeah, I meant cassette.

I just pulled it inside to look at the damage better- Brakes and brake cables are fine, frame is fine, seatpost and headset (quilled) seem fine. Chain is dead. Cassette and derailleurs look salvageable. Looks like I'd need new shifter cables, but the it shifts (things moved when I clicked the shifters, but I didn't want to force it with the chain being frozen). Hard to tell about the front gears- at least the big gear looks like a couple of teeth might be damaged (tips shortened). I'd need to get the chain off to see the rest. Rims are fine, but a few of the spokes have some rust- might just be surface, they feel rather strong. I cut the rotted rubber off the shocks- there's a smidge of rust under there on one side, but it looks like stainless, so it should come off. I slathered some naval jelly on the rusted bits and will see how it looks tomorrow.

How do I tell if the BB and wheel bearings are okay? And how can I be sure the gears will be okay? (I guess more importantly, will I die if a tooth busts while riding?:rolleyes:)

Sounds like you got a keeper - if the frame is fine and brake/cables are already ok. Cool. I just overhauled a 14 yr old red steel bike, and I am overhauling my mt bike as we speak.

1. Stick with the derailleurs and cassette for the moment if they look fine. Alternatively in the future, since this is not a glamour bike - I've often gone to my LBS and they have some older stock/cheaper/good used parts to sell for cheap.
2. You can either get new shifter cables and housing, or slide the housing off and lube the cables with oil for now and see how that goes. New cables/housing isn't too expensive. If you get new cables/housing, you'll want a cable cutter than doesn't crush the housing. I have the Park Tool one.
3. If you don't have any, you might want to purchase some needed bike tools - you'll always have them and it's very rewarding to do your own work. I have a few and it wasn't "hundreds of dollars". Get them as you need them, if you can afford this - and you'll find that you don't need some of the extended expensive kits that they have out there.
4. When you say front gears I'm assuming chain rings. I had old damaged chainrings too. You can try bending them back in line if they're bent, but I didn't mess with it and I just bought 2 new ones. Chain rings can be any where from $15 to $30 or so. Check how many bolts you have and then look at Sheldon Brown's website to determine the #mm BCD you'll need.
5. I know nothing of front shocks.
6. You'll want a new chain. I like to get a Wipperman Connex masterlink (Shimano compatible) suitable for the size/speed chain you have when I change out chains. You put this masterlink on the new chain and it allows you pull the chain totally off the bike and put it back on without breaking a chain pin and needing a new one. I think SRAM 8&9 speeds have this removable masterlink. The SRAM 10 speed masterlink is not removable.
7. Try moving your cranks side to side, or take the cranks off and try moving the axle and see if there is play in the bottom bracket. There shouldn't be any. To check the bearings you have to pull out the BB. Check for pitting. You'll know if it's bad. Same with the hubs. You'll need a crank remover and a bottom bracket tool. But you'll have them and it's fun, if you happen to like this stuff.

If you don't know how to do some of this or unsure what things are supposed to look like, and you don't already have their Blue Book, check the Park Tool website (http://www.parktool.com/).
It has pictures and step by step.

Alternatively, you can bring the bike in and have them tell you what part you need, making sure you tell them only what you want and not have them sell you everything under the sun even if you don't need it. Same with getting the right tool. You are still purchasing from them but just doing the labor yourself.

Overall I spent around $65 overhauling my bike back to perfection. It was rewarding and a lot less expensive than a new bike.

If it's been sitting around in the elements for 3 years, I'd want to take it apart, replace some things, lube it, repack hubs, etc. and give it the lovin' it deserves.

Hopefully DebW will see this as well as others and make some additional helpful comments and suggestions.

[mayanorange]

This is my crankset

http://www.bikepartsplace.com/discount/crankset-altus/

Doesn't have separate chainrings :( And it's pretty bad- I should replace it. Not that I know how to get one of those kind off.

Cassette is cleaning up well. Going to attempt to take apart the shock to clean it properly.

[DebW]

wheel bearings - definitely good to repack them with new grease. But for starters, with the wheels on the bike, grab the rims and see if you can move them side to side relative to the frame or fork. If you find play, the cones need to be adjusted. See if the wheels spin freely and if they will continue to spin for a long time. Then remove the wheels from the bike and turn the axle in your hand. You want it to feel smooth and silky. If it feels and sound metallic, the cones are too tight or are lacking grease. If it feels rough and uneven, the cones are pitted.

bottom bracket - with the chain off the crank, grab a crank arm near its end and try to move it side to side without turning it. Any movement relative to the frame indicated improper bottom bracket adjustment or crank arms not properly secured to the bottom bracket. Spin the crank and see if it moves freely. To actually feel the bearings, you have to remove the crank arms (crank puller required). Is this an adjustable bottom bracket with a lock ring or a cartridge? If it's a cartridge and it has play or feels tight or rough, then it needs to be replace for ~$30. If it's adjustable, you can open it up and repack with fresh grease.

gears - if the derailleurs aren't moving freely, a solvent bath followed by lubrication will help. But they'll probably be fine. Lube all the pivot points and remove and grease the jockey wheel bushings.

will you die if a tooth busts while riding? - the only major stress on teeth is during the shift, otherwise many teeth bear the load equally. So probably the worst that would happen is a failed shift and chain that jumps back to a smaller chainring. The cheaper cranksets are riveted together, so you can't replace just a chainring.

careful dismantling the shock. Some contain oil, some springs, some air. Even pro shops won't overhaul every suspension.





How do I tell if the BB and wheel bearings are okay? And how can I be sure the gears will be okay? (I guess more importantly, will I die if a tooth busts while riding?:rolleyes:)

[mayanorange]

Thanks Deb and MM for the advice! I think this will turn around pretty easily.


bottom bracket - with the chain off the crank, grab a crank arm near its end and try to move it side to side without turning it. Any movement relative to the frame indicated improper bottom bracket adjustment or crank arms not properly secured to the bottom bracket. Spin the crank and see if it moves freely. To actually feel the bearings, you have to remove the crank arms (crank puller required). Is this an adjustable bottom bracket with a lock ring or a cartridge? If it's a cartridge and it has play or feels tight or rough, then it needs to be replace for ~$30. If it's adjustable, you can open it up and repack with fresh grease.

I will check the cones tonight- is that a part that would need replacing if they are pitted or is that part of the hub? Once I hacksawed off the chain, I did the crank wiggle test and the BB seem solid. I had it mostly apart and on its side at that point, so didn't turn the cranks around. I have no idea is it's a cartridge or lock ring. The specs seem to match this slightly older Purgatory (http://www.bikepedia.com/QuickBike/BikeSpecs.aspx?ItemID=65500&Type=bike), but I don't know what some of these old numbers are. Once I got the chain off, there were more teeth (~6-8 total) that are more like stubs, so I was thinking of getting this crank (http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=600081&subcategory=60001031&brand=&sku=24804&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=Shop%20by%20Subcat%3A%20ATB%20Cranks) to replace it. Most of the gear on it is AceraX, so should match well.


careful dismantling the shock. Some contain oil, some springs, some air. Even pro shops won't overhaul every suspension.

I found a website with pictures of how to disassemble a basic shock and it seemed to be in the 'basic' category and says 'elastomer spring' on it, so I figured it was just a spring in there. I did get it open and there's a spring with some little elastomer bits at the bottom- everything looks okay. I cleaned up some rust on the shafts (mostly where the boots were) and was planning to just regrease it and put it back together- once I get grease!

So my shopping list has: crankset, crank puller, chain (with quicklink so I don't need a chain splitter- or do I need one to shorten it?), 2 derailleur cables (I should have cutters that will work, tho not bike specific), pedros syngrease (I assume I can use for both shock and bearings?), lizard skin fork boots, and 2 new tubes (the tires look nearly new). Any other bike specific tools I need? I have a hoard of tools from my first car- I had to buy my own, so it was a total rustbucket. This guy is mostly just dirty with a little surface rust- no spraying with that acid stuff and waiting hours for it to work only to have seized parts then break off in your hands!

Thanks again for the help and forgive me if I ask silly questions or use the wrong terms- bike anatomy is a bit new to me, but tinkering isn't.

[Crankin]

Wow, I am impressed. I can (barely) change a flat and grease my chain, so I say go for it, because I would be nervous about taking my road bike on the train, too.
I don' t have to take my bike ON the train. Just ride to the station and ride back home. The lbs is across the street and has a rack in front, which I think is safer than locking it at the station. I am just nervous about riding home in the dark. I have a light, not a super duper one, but OK, and a headlamp I can put on my helmet, a blinkie for the back and another one I can put on my back somewhere. I will have to get some reflective bands, too.
Tonight, when I drove home, I sort of tried to look at the route as if I were riding. It's fairly well lit until through Concord Center and there's about three quarters of a mile that is a bit dark, with no street lights. Then, by that time, I'm in my neighborhood.
I commuted a couple of days a week when I was working, 28 miles round trip, so it's not like I haven't done this. But, no darkness was involved and I could change my clothes/clean up. I have campus pedals on my Jamis, so I guess I can deal with going 5 miles not clipped in, although I feel like my feet are flying off the pedals when I ride with regular shoes. Thursday will be my experiment.

[DebW]

I will check the cones tonight- is that a part that would need replacing if they are pitted or is that part of the hub? Once I hacksawed off the chain, I did the crank wiggle test and the BB seem solid. I had it mostly apart and on its side at that point, so didn't turn the cranks around. I have no idea is it's a cartridge or lock ring. The specs seem to match this slightly older Purgatory (http://www.bikepedia.com/QuickBike/BikeSpecs.aspx?ItemID=65500&Type=bike), but I don't know what some of these old numbers are. Once I got the chain off, there were more teeth (~6-8 total) that are more like stubs, so I was thinking of getting this crank (http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=600081&subcategory=60001031&brand=&sku=24804&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=Shop%20by%20Subcat%3A%20ATB%20Cranks) to replace it. Most of the gear on it is AceraX, so should match well.

So my shopping list has: crankset, crank puller, chain (with quicklink so I don't need a chain splitter- or do I need one to shorten it?), 2 derailleur cables (I should have cutters that will work, tho not bike specific), pedros syngrease (I assume I can use for both shock and bearings?), lizard skin fork boots, and 2 new tubes (the tires look nearly new). Any other bike specific tools I need? I have a hoard of tools from my first car- I had to buy my own, so it was a total rustbucket.

Cones are screwed onto the axle and are the hub part that wears quickest. If you replace cones, might as well put in new bearings too as they add only a few dollars.

Hacksawing off the chain? A chain tool would have been quicker, but guess a hacksaw does job.

Bottom bracket cartridge or adjustable with lockring - see pictures here (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_bo-z.html#bottom)

Additional Tools:
chain tool to shorten new chain
probably a 14 or 15 mm socket to remove the crank bolt, or possibly a 8 mm allen key
cone wrenches if you need to open the hubs (usually 13 mm for front hub and 15 mm for rear hub) plus an adjustable wrench for the lock nuts
if you have to open the rear hub, the cassette or freewheel must be removed with the appropriate tool(s)
pedal wrench
if you have an adjustable bottom bracket and need to open it, then a lockring tool and pin spanner

PM me if you have trouble coming up with the tools you need. I live near you and have everything.

[mayanorange]

Hacksawing off the chain? A chain tool would have been quicker, but guess a hacksaw does job.

PM me if you have trouble coming up with the tools you need. I live near you and have everything.

Thanks Deb, I might take you up on that. And I do think it was faster to just cut it off- It was frozen stiff with rust so I had to cut it a couple times to get it out of the rear derailleur. Not sure the pins would have come out.

[mayanorange]

Cranklin, somehow I missed your msg the other day. Yeah, the LBS lockup sounds like a good idea. I've been looking for reflective bands and rei has some on the outlet website you might want to check out. Sounds like you have the lights under control really- I was at REI yesterday and was playing the planet bike super flash and thought I'd never see again! I'm going to stick with a more normal led blinkie. I guess I don't miss being clipped in mostly because it's new and my frogs don't really feel like I'm attached (which can be a problem at lights when I forget and lean the wrong way for a second! Gives me a heart attack!). Let us know how Thursday goes.

And as for tinkering, it's in my blood- we work on cars, woodworking, houses, everything. I really freak when DH goes into my tool closet since he has not been taught as well and has been known to grab the first tool available rather than asking if I have the right one!

[Crankin]

I guess I missed that gene. My mom had it, but my dad is hopeless with mechanical stuff, just like me. My husband can fix anything and has probably saved us a million dollars over the years.
My riding friend came over for dinner tonight and she convinced me to try the night time riding; if I get really freaked out, there's a sidewalk for the darkest part of my ride. But, I don't think I'll need it. I've determined that it will not kill my a$$ to ride 5 miles without a chamois and as far as the pedals go, that will just be practice. Imagine, I have to practice riding NOT being clipped in.
It sounds like your remodel is coming along. Do you plan to commute in the coldest part of the winter?

[mayanorange]

Stem question for you guys. I took the tape to my roadie and my total reach is 62cm and the rustbucket has a super long quill stem (130 or so with about a 10-20 rise), so it's 67cm. DH's roadie is 65cm, so if we can get it in between 62 and 65, that should work for both of us? Other question is do I get adjustable angle or just a long quill or both so we can adjust as need be? I assume I'll want the bars a smidge higher than the roadie since it's a more upright posture? My road bars are almost even with my saddle now.

Oh wait, I didn't account for the length to the hoods from the stem on my roadie.... hmmmm... now I have to measure again.