Garmin warning!

[gnat23]

I know the Garmin GPS bike units have been a favorite toy of myself and several others on this board, so I figured I'd give a heads-up:

The Edge, apparently including the 205, 305, and 705, have a bit of an engineering flaw in which it will spontaneously turn off during a ride.

When it first happened to me, I thought it was my own fault. Turn back on, it talks to the mothership, hit start and keep going. But it has started happening more and more often now, to the point where it happened three times in the first twenty minutes of a charity ride. On the same ride, my boyfriend's 305 turned off *seven* times. And this is his fourth or fifth time sending it back to Garmin now.

A bit of net research has shown this not to be isolated to just us, either (so no local black-hole arguments here). A bit of a net hunt found that vibrations cause the battery contacts to disconnect, and that if one wishes to void their warranty fully, you can take it apart, clean and "refresh" (i.e., bend) the springs a bit, and try to waterproof it again with rubber cement. I don't trust myself well enough with small electronic bits to do it myself, but it's an option when you don't have anything else to turn to. http://forums.motionbased.com/smf/index.php?PHPSESSID=000a201aaa94d328628ad489c9067181&topic=6566.msg42076

The other option is to call Garmin and sit on hold for 30+ minutes, talk to customer service who says if you've had it more than a year, then it'll cost $99 to repair, or you can hold 20 minutes again for tech support, who then waves the fee. Weird. Anyway, you mail your toy in and wait for the refurb to show back up which will likely have the same problem sooner or later.

I'm mostly ticked for the following reasons:
- I wish Garmin would admit that this is a problem. There's no mention of it on their website, and since the 705 is starting to do it, there appears to be no idea of them, you know, fixing the root cause. We're not talking about mountain biking over jumps or logs, either, this is road bikes on pretty smooth stuff; are they really not designed to handle normal vibrations?

- I wish customer service was better. Or I wish there was another company's product that had the same functionality but better customer service so I could speak with my cash.

- I wish that I had some confidence that sending it in for refurbishing and feeling naked for 1-2 weeks without any data gathering really fixed it. Or that I could have an excuse to upgrade to a 705 and not only have COLOR MAPS! but also something reliable.

- You really haven't lived until you've been on a long ride, realized that the thing's turned off again, and you almost turn around and go back because you're so mad at the device. You start noticing that it's rather flat on top with rounded edges and wonder how many times it would skip across that lake right there... Do you keep futzing with it, wondering how many times you can sanely accept turning it back on during a ride or resign to the punishment of sending it in at the prime of the season?

Oh yah, did I mention that the calorie-counter resets when this happens, and that it's pretty random as to which parts of your segmented ride it keeps when it downloads to the computer? Grr.

-- gnat! (I miss my broken toy)

[Mr. Bloom]

Wow! One of the guys in my pace line on RAIN had the problem...I was thinking it was isolated, but alas, there does seem to be a pattern.

I'd be furious. We were just talking the other night about how numbers oriented I am...and I too would feel naked if I didn't have my numbers...

One of TrekJeni's friend said that they also don't warrant against damage from a driving rain, has anyone had problems due to rain?

[Mr. SR500]

I've had good luck with mine, over 7,000 miles and no problems to speak of. I'm sorry you are having problems. Hope you get it repaired to your satisfaction.

[7rider]

I've had good luck with mine, over 7,000 miles and no problems to speak of. I'm sorry you are having problems. Hope you get it repaired to your satisfaction.

Same here (well, just shy of 7K, but getting there soon!). My problems are all of the "user error" type. :rolleyes:

I seem to have more issues with the Training Center software on the p.c. I just upraded to the newer version (v. 3.4.3) and I don't particularly care for it. :(

[Aggie_Ama]

I wonder if they are working on that? My husband really wants me to get a Garmin but I am leery of spending $600 on a bike computer (we have been looking at the 705). I have a $40 Cateye, not exactly an investment of this magnitude.

[HoosierGiant]

DH just waited two weeks for his replacement unit to show up, for the very issue you mentioned -- it would randomly turn itself off on rides. Very frustrating because he never knew what portion of the ride statistics it would retain once he turned it back on after realizing it was AWOL. He didn't have any issues with Garmin customer service, but then he has a little bit of leverage -- this is the second time he's had to replace a unit, although I don't remember what the first time was for. So, yes, he's actually on his third Edge 305 because you never get yours back, just a refurbished unit.

He's the numbers-driven, data guy, so I understand your anxiety over riding 'naked'. On the other hand, I like having access to the data while I'm riding, but couldn't care less once I'm done. Crunching the numbers doesn't entice me, and I'll often wait to download a week's worth of rides at a time. Ironically, my Edge 305 has been the reliable unit to this point. We often ride together, on the same cruddy chip 'n seal roads, so it's a mystery as to why his unit is cantankerous and mine is well-behaved.

The only issue I've had is that I'll plot/download a course and discover part way through the ride that the virtual training partner has decided to mutiny -- frozen in both time and space, with directions for home locked tightly in its tiny little brain. Gulp! And it only happens on rides over 60 miles. Not the best of circumstances for little ol' directionally challenged me who can ride a road numerous times and still not recognize it the next time I see it...

[SouthernBelle]

As to surviving in the rain, I've never trusted electronics to survive in that. So I have a sandwich bag and a rubber band in my saddle bag for just such an occasion.

[BikeDutchess]

I have the exact same problem with random turn-offs and it's driving me nuts. I'll have to find time to deal with customer service because I don't trust myself to fiddle with the "innards".

[F8th637]

As to surviving in the rain, I've never trusted electronics to survive in that. So I have a sandwich bag and a rubber band in my saddle bag for just such an occasion.

I've ridden with mine in the rain and it still works great!

[SadieKate]

I seem to have more issues with the Training Center software on the p.c. I just upraded to the newer version (v. 3.4.3) and I don't particularly care for it. :(

Helloo-oo! :D

SportTracks (http://www.zonefivesoftware.com/SportTracks)

http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=25791&highlight=sporttracks

[Fujichants]

I got the 305 for my BF and the only issue he is having with it (so far) is that the calorie reading is completely off. He seems to burn thousands more calories than me - and that was never the case when he had his Polar.

[limewave]

DH has had problems with his since I got it for him 2 years ago. We assumed it was some kind of reception problem, good to know it's not just us! I'm calling customer service today.

[Tokie]

Sorry to hear about your demon Garmin. I have odd problems with mine, my husband's - never! I say that my Garmin hates me. This summer I got the auto shut off problem too, on my tour from Wyoming through South Dakota. Then I noticed that it never shut off while my bike was at rest (eating yet another another truckstop meal). My mounting plate had a teensy bit of play in it. We replaced the plate, rock solid, but it will still shut itself off if I am on some really really washboard road. Next time I'm riding on super rough stuff, I may secure the Garmin in my pocket to save my frustration. tokie

[smilingcat]

From the sound of things, if it is losing connection intermittently from the battery, a quick way to fix that is to add a "super cap" across the battery terminals. It would add about $1.00 to the production cost. Why don't one of you suggest that to Garmin when you talk to their rep.

Sometimes, a simple solution is the best. Sometimes, engineers just can't see the obvious. I should know I work with whole bunch of the most pig headed/obnoxious/sutbborn men I've ever known.

smilingcat

[dachshund]

Well darn. I've had mine a month and it's done this once already. Now I know what creates those maps that have a long straight line in them, which I see on motionbased sometimes. So maybe it isn't something that develops over time.

[Thorn]

Fascinating. I have had a 305 for two years and a 705 for the last couple of months. I had problems with the 305 not charging from the USB cable (actually discharging), but not the shut off problem.

When I saw this posting I did a double take to make sure you were referring to the Edge. Several years ago (as in just about when hand held GPS units became consumer affordable) we had a Garmin that took regular batteries that had the problem. People shimmed their battery connectors with foil. Heck, the batteries could dislodge while hiking.

I'm sorry for those that have the problem (and glad {knock on wood} my units don't exhibit the problem), but I'm really surprised given the historical track record Garmin has had with battery pick-ups that they wouldn't have solved it when the released a unit designed to bumped down the road. Sad....it really is a neat product....most of the time...

[OakLeaf]

wow, that's too bad. My 705's not that old, but no problems so far that weren't related to firmware bugs (since fixed).

I did have a little of that behavior out of my Forerunner 301, only when I attached it to my stem by clamping the wrist strap down really tightly (because the only bike mount I had, fit the old small diameter bars). I assumed that I was slightly deforming the case and causing either the battery or the display to lose contact. Even then, it would not lose data from the ride before it shut off.

Also, all Edge models are rated IPX7 water resistant (submersible to 1m for 30 minutes). If they're getting drowned without even being submerged, that should be a warranty issue as well.

I hope Garmin isn't getting too big too fast :mad:

[bluebug32]

My 305 was damaged (my fault) and I ended up sending it back for the $99 replacement. Yes, the 30 min. wait on the phone was annoying, but I found customer service to be very nice and my replacement showed up a week later.

Is the 705 as bad with this problem too? I've heard a few things that make me think it's better to wait a bit before upgrading.

[LBTC]

DH and I have the ancient Forerunner 301. We both experience occasional dropouts - HR disappears or spikes, Satellite signal drops, but never the auto shutoff. Unfortunately, that changes the averages for us, so that's kind of annoying....

We both just strap the unit to the handlebar with the wrist strap - I found it would fall out of the handlebar mount when I used it as a HRM in the house on the trainer :eek: so I've never used the mount in the real world.

After having the units for a couple of years I was quite surprised to learn that I should be doing firmware upgrades from time to time. I found it by accident, but now I check it once in awhile...

I hope you find some satisfaction - the data these things provides is really great in so many ways!

Hugs and butterflies,
~T~

[melissam]

I've had my Garmin Edge 305 for a little over a year, and it only spontaneously turned off on me once. It was during the Crater Lake Century, and I assume it was after I didn't avoid a decent sized pothole on a descent.

Now the calorie calculation is a complete mystery to me! Sometimes there's obvious errors, like the ride where I burned over 66,000 calories according to my Garmin. :rolleyes: Oh, that was the Crater Lake Ride, so I wonder if it has anything to do with the auto-shutoff "feature."

The calorie calculations from this weekend make me a little suspicious. On Saturday, I had a nice, 56 mile ride over flats and rolling hills. 2587 feet of elevation gain and 2194 calories burned. On Sunday, I had the Ride from He!! -- up Mt. Hamilton, then thru Mines Road to Livermore, where I baked in the heat and was beggin' for my mommy. 6616 feet of elevation gain with only 2993 calories burned. WHAT?!? Only 800 more calories burned than the pleasure cruise on Saturday?! I seriously doubt it. :mad:

[Running Mommy]

Hmmm.. never had the random shut off. But occasionaly mine will lose the satelite in a wide open area. The problems I have are it not tracking speed correctly. One day I was going 38 mph up a heinus hill, but coming down the other side I was only going 7mph...:cool::confused::rolleyes:
So it does have "issues" sometimes, but so far it's always stayed on..

Huh???

edit to add that when I'm at Interbike next month I will corner their reps on this... Maybe even print this thread out and hand it to them.. Maybe seeing this will get their attention. As a company I doubt they would like seeing this bad press on an Enthusiast forum such as this...

[SadieKate]

I've had my Garmin Edge 305 for a little over a year, and it only spontaneously turned off on me once. It was during the Crater Lake Century, and I assume it was after I didn't avoid a decent sized pothole on a descent.Mine did too but I discovered it on the climb after the Phantom Ship Overlook rest stop (when Keith was trying to keep up with the two "Devil Women"). It was working when I arrived at the rest stop but that was one of the longest rest stops I've ever taken so I assumed it had shut down to save power.

Poor Keith. Just had to keep up with the wimmen. He was going backwards by the time you two burned him up so it was easy to pass him.:rolleyes:

[melissam]

Mine did too but I discovered it on the climb after the Phantom Ship Overlook rest stop (when Keith was trying to keep up with the two "Devil Women"). It was working when I arrived at the rest stop but that was one of the longest rest stops I've ever taken so I assumed it had shut down to save power.

Poor Keith. Just had to keep up with the wimmen. He was going backwards by the time you two burned him up so it was easy to pass him.:rolleyes:

Ah yes, my new nickname: Demon Woman. I like it! :D

But SK, you're too modest: you didn't pass him, you rescued him. You even gave him a lot of your limited supply of water. Me? At that point, it was every man (or demon woman) for him/herself! I started to head back to check on Keith, but saw that you had it under control, so I continued up to what I had hoped would be a water stop.

Keith was fun to hang with, though. And he had that beautiful Merlin Cielo...

There. Have I thoroughly hijacked this thread, or what? ;)

[SadieKate]

Ah yes, my new nickname: Demon Woman. I like it! :D

But SK, you're too modest: you didn't pass him, you rescued him. You even gave him a lot of your limited supply of water. Me? At that point, it was every man (or demon woman) for him/herself! I started to head back to check on Keith, but saw that you had it under control, so I continued up to what I had hoped would be a water stop.Oh no. I'm talking about later after I'd rescued him and after we descended to the Phantom Shop and after all of us, even Bubba, talked to him about electrolytes at the rest stop. He still tried to keep up with you and Kim on that last climb. Silly boy. Slow learner, but nice guy. He yelled hello at me later when I was waiting at the falls for poor crash-damaged Bubba to get over that last climb not knowing the rest of you had found some lovely shade with LeeBob.

Hijack off. Maybe.

[Popoki_Nui]

Interesting thread. I have a Garmin 60Cx that does (did) the same thing...random shut-offs due to vibration when I have it mounted on my bike. I don't use mine for training but for geocaching, so lost data isn't an issue, but it *is* annoying just the same.
I bent out the battery contacts inside the battery bay without taking the case apart. Also added a thin piece of foam to the inside of the battery cover to press on the batteries and keep them in place. Seems to be working fine now.

[Geonz]

This confirms my suspicion that they're Not Ready for Prime Time. I hate buying beta versions - especially when there's no reason to believe they're actually every going to acknowledge, much less address, the bugs.

It's Paper Maps for Me in the Meantime.

[melissam]

Oh no. I'm talking about later after I'd rescued him and after we descended to the Phantom Shop and after all of us, even Bubba, talked to him about electrolytes at the rest stop. He still tried to keep up with you and Kim on that last climb. Silly boy. Slow learner, but nice guy. He yelled hello at me later when I was waiting at the falls for poor crash-damaged Bubba to get over that last climb not knowing the rest of you had found some lovely shade with LeeBob.

Oh, I didn't realize that Keith made a second attempt at following us up the hill. (I was too busy focusing on keeping the pedals turning and the sweat out of my eyes.)

And that LeeBob -- he finds the BEST places to hang out!


This confirms my suspicion that they're Not Ready for Prime Time. I hate buying beta versions - especially when there's no reason to believe they're actually every going to acknowledge, much less address, the bugs.

It's Paper Maps for Me in the Meantime.

Sue,

It's not all bad! I don't regret buying my Garmin, because to me, the good far outweighs the bad.

- Melissa

[BabyBlueNTulsa]

http://www.compuplus.com/i-Garmin-Edge-705-Outdoor-Fitness-GPS-with-Heart-Rate-Monitor-010-00555-20-1012963~.html?sid=mbs95ld22391fb9

$383 Garmin 705 w/Heart monitor!

I've had my 705 (THIS 705 from the above link) for a month now and haven't experienced any problems ...knock on wood!

I love this toy!! So much fun.. I went adventuring last weekend and found a 16% hill. I decided to make a day of it and hit all the hills I could. LOL

I rode a personal best this past month with my Garmin. 518 miles in 30 days.

[avi4]

i am new

That's almost enough to make me want to buy a Garmin Edge 705 (http://www.partners2create.com/product.php?productid=16133&cat=0&page=1&featured) as bike computer! Wink
Until now, my Garmin eTrex GPS has been enough, but I have access to some pretty high tech geology modelling software to play with (into which I can import my GPS data and make 3D models of the terrain I've been riding

[bluebug32]

Not to hijack the thread, but does anyone know how to sync the data from the 305 so that the same data appears on Sport Tracks? The calorie counts, elevation, grades, etc. usually read differently between Garmin and the Training Center and Sport Tracks, which I don't understand because the info. is downloaded into Sport Tracks directly from the 305.

[SadieKate]

You'd probably do well to post these questions on the SportTracks forum.

I provided an elevation tip on this thread.
http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=25791&highlight=sporttracks

[OakLeaf]

Not to hijack the thread, but does anyone know how to sync the data from the 305 so that the same data appears on Sport Tracks? The calorie counts, elevation, grades, etc. usually read differently between Garmin and the Training Center and Sport Tracks, which I don't understand because the info. is downloaded into Sport Tracks directly from the 305.

If you want the unedited numbers in SportTracks, click the "Manually Enter Data" button (but don't edit them). Personally, I like to compare the two algorithms (and choose the one that says I worked harder ;))

[SadieKate]

It's even better when you compile the highest numbers from your riding companions' computers.

[Jiffer]

I had a Garmin watch that would just turn off like that when I plopped it down somewhere. And I don't mean throwing it down, but anything less than very gentle would sometimes cause it to just go blank.

I haven't had that problem with a 305, yet. I had to send one back in January because it freaked out when I tried to turn it on. Luckily dh was able to get the stats off of it and then sent it in. I got a refurbished one, only to have it stolen when our house was burglarized. Now I have a brand new one that seems to be doing okay, except it does do a weird thing when I turn it on sometimes. It will beep loudly and go to some unusual screen with lots of tiny words on it. I don't bother to read them because I just need to get the thing working and go for my ride! When I turn it off and then on again, it usually works fine.

My elevation climbed part seems to be all over the place though. I rarely look at it, but when I do it jumps from 10% to 6% to 8% to 10% to 5%. Not like my first.

Yeah, Garmins are wonderful and frustrating all at the same time. But I SO love having all that info right there!!!

[Possegal]

I had this happen to me twice in a 32 mile ride a couple weeks ago and just figured I had done something. Nice to know it wasn't me, but upsetting to know this may be a continuing problem. I haven't had mine for very long either. :(

[OakLeaf]

Is anyone still having this problem after last week's 2.40 firmware update? I see in the release notes that it's supposed to address a battery sensor problem that was causing random shutdowns.

[OakLeaf]

DH and I have the ancient Forerunner 301....
We both just strap the unit to the handlebar with the wrist strap - I found it would fall out of the handlebar mount when I used it as a HRM in the house on the trainer :eek: so I've never used the mount in the real world.

My 301 snaps very firmly into the handlebar mount, but I really have to push it in hard. Is it possible you weren't getting it in all the way? I always did use the wrist strap as backup, loosely fastened just in case, but it never came off even on some pretty rough roads.

[Jiffer]

Is anyone still having this problem after last week's 2.40 firmware update? I see in the release notes that it's supposed to address a battery sensor problem that was causing random shutdowns.

Can you explain what you mean by this? Is this an update you can put on your Garmin yourself, or have it sent in to be updated with? :confused:

[SadieKate]

Sounds like Garmin has released software or firmware updates.

http://www8.garmin.com/support/download.jsp

Of course, they can't seem to get my email address into their system so once again I find out through others. Thanks, Oakleaf.

[SadieKate]

Is anyone still having this problem after last week's 2.40 firmware update? I see in the release notes that it's supposed to address a battery sensor problem that was causing random shutdowns.Which product are you using?

Is this for the 705?
https://buy.garmin.com/shop/store/downloadsUpdates.jsp?product=010-00555-20&cID=160&pID=10885

It doesn't match with the Edge 305 update page.
https://buy.garmin.com/shop/store/downloadsUpdates.jsp?product=010-00447-00&cID=160&pID=331

[OakLeaf]

Yes, the 705.

Go to the product page (https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=160&pID=10885) on garmin.com, click on "Updates & Downloads" on the right, then download the WebUpdater app. That application works for all the fitness units (maybe all their units, I don't know). You can also download updates to Training Center from the same page.

On the Mac, you have to actually run the WebUpdater app periodically (with the GPS connected to the computer). DH's Windows box automatically updates his car GPS, but as I said, I'm not sure if that's the same WebUpdater.

[maillotpois]

Is anyone still having this problem after last week's 2.40 firmware update? I see in the release notes that it's supposed to address a battery sensor problem that was causing random shutdowns.

Confused about this - DH says we're up to version 3.2 (and he's definitely still having the problem with shutting down). Was there really something specific from garmin addressing the problem? Do you have a link?

- ETA: DUh - I just remembered this dialogue yesterday and mentioned to DH without reading the following posts to know it was the wrong unit being discussed. Never mind.... (said in a Gilda Radner voice).

[TahoeDirtGirl]

Wow, I bought one of these about a year ago from REI and returned it within a few wks because it just wouldn't work right AND it was turning off. I couldn't understand how I rode 2 hours and only went 4 miles?! :confused: Good to know it wasn't just me. But I feel for the people that have been relying on it. That's not right, they should figure out how to fix it.

[maillotpois]

DH has now broken his open and is fixing the contacts.

http://forums.motionbased.com/smf/index.php?topic=6566.msg42076

Not for the faint of heart (I hate breaking things open), but it seems to be going very smoothly.

[SadieKate]

OMG! :eek: :D

[maillotpois]

It seems to have been a good thing. He's gone to get glue now. He wanted me to email you the link, but since you've seen it, I won't.

ETA: I went back and see that gnat originally posted that link. I didn't pay attention because I wasn't aware he was having those problems, and I am not having those problems with mine.

See also this:

http://auberger.com/archives/2008/06/garmin-edge-305-woes