Do motorists not look before they back out?

[andtckrtoo]

I think there is something in the air today! I was almost hit by TWO little old people, one woman, one man, each in the Bay Area icon - the Toyota Prius - and yes, I like Prius's. They were backing out of driveways on to rather busy roads. The first, almost hit me, so I slammed on the brakes, then she realized what she did and stopped while still in front of me (man am I glad I keep my clips loose!), then proceeded to pull out in front of another motorist. The second just caused me to slam on the breaks - it was good for a nice increase in the ole heart rate. Heard that's good for the heart. :rolleyes:

But on the good side of people, I had a construction worker go out of his way to show me newly poured tar so that I did not run over it.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Drivers often back out without looking. It's what they do after a cursory glance to look for approaching cars. If you expect them to do this at every opportunity, you'll less likely get hit by them. Never count on them seeing you.

[Thorn]

Besides the fact that drivers are just more inattentive these days. OK, unsupported by facts, but, really, ask a young person about defensive driving and see the bambi-in-the-head-lights look. But, I digress...

The Prius is one of the worst cars I've ever driven with respect to blind spots. I've backed up the car, knowing that some thing was there, but unable to see it. So, compound elderly and probable lack of full range of motion, only looking for cars, and heavy blind spots......

[andtckrtoo]

Good to know that the Prius has horrible blind spots. I'll be even more careful around them as they are EVERYWHERE here. And I do see the point of treating every car as a potential threat. Thanks!

Yeah, I guess I'm dreaming of a perfect world. I drive a bright red Mini Cooper when I drive, and people have problems seeing that - I'm much less visable on a bike.

[singletrackmind]

They don't look for bikes or think to look to their left for pedestrians when they are backing up.

They don't look to the right when making a right turn, only left.

They don't see crosswalks or believe they have to stop just because someone is in one.

They don't believe a cyclist they drove by 2 seconds ago will be in their path when they make that right turn....a school bus almost got me doing that a few days ago. :eek:

[jobob]

Always assume you're invisible to drivers unless they indicate otherwise. :cool:

Back when I was an instructor for the club's Road Skills course, one of the students told me I was the friendliest rider he'd ever seen, always giving a cheery wave to drivers as I approached them at intersections.

I explained to him that heck no, I wasn't being friendly :p - I wanted to make sure the drivers saw me, and I was looking for some sort of reaction from them acknowleging my presence.

[Xrayted]

Nope. They don't. And don't expect them to. They hit large cars on a regular basis. What makes you think they will see you on your bike? That's the way I ride. Every side road I come to, I'm looking behind me in case someone is coming to make a right turn into it. (and into me) Then I'm looking up that road to make sure someone isn't coming down it and not stopping at the sign. Cars coming out of a driveway... don't even bother to assume they see you. Even if they do, they still seem to back out.

Think about this: Have you ever been riding along at a good rate of speed and see something in the road. You keep looking at it so you can avoid it and what do you do? You run it over. You will go where you are looking no matter how hard you try. Drivers in cars are the same way. If they see you or don't, the odds are they will tag you. Be your own advocate for personal safety. You have no blind spots. Anticipate and adjust. You will live longer and better.

Am I saying be paranoid when you're riding? Well, only a little. If we aren't enjoying the ride, then what's the point? Learning to balance the freedom and fun of riding with the dangers of the motorized population around you is essential. Or... just stick to the paths. Of course then, you have children, unleashed dogs or errant little old lady motorists backing up in Prius' who don't even know they aren't on a road anymore... :eek::D:rolleyes:

Good luck and stay safe.:)

[OakLeaf]

The Prius is one of the worst cars I've ever driven with respect to blind spots.

+1!!!!!! Although actually, since it has that backup camera, if you keep twisting and turning to look out the window and then in the camera, you can actually see much more going backwards in that stupid car than you can going forward. When you're taking a left hand curve, you literally cannot see the road in front of you.

Supposedly they'll have a new body style for '09.

A lot of older people have neck mobility issues. Which means they can't see out of most cars, particularly when backing. My dad asked me about the Prius - he's had cervical vertebrae fused at two levels, and I told him absolutely not to get that car.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Nope. They don't. And don't expect them to. They hit large cars on a regular basis. What makes you think they will see you on your bike? That's the way I ride. Every side road I come to, I'm looking behind me in case someone is coming to make a right turn into it. (and into me) Then I'm looking up that road to make sure someone isn't coming down it and not stopping at the sign. Cars coming out of a driveway... don't even bother to assume they see you. Even if they do, they still seem to back out.

Think about this: Have you ever been riding along at a good rate of speed and see something in the road. You keep looking at it so you can avoid it and what do you do? You run it over. You will go where you are looking no matter how hard you try. Drivers in cars are the same way. If they see you or don't, the odds are they will tag you. Be your own advocate for personal safety. You have no blind spots. Anticipate and adjust. You will live longer and better.



Well said. Expect cars to do the wrong thing. Half the time, they will.

[TahoeDirtGirl]

I took a rider safety class a very long time ago. At the time, they said to make eye contact. I actually find this works against me. I think I figured out why.

I did a little experiment this wknd where I made eye contact at intersections. When I made eye contact, 6 times out of 10 they made the movement (aka started rolling) like they were going to keep going. Only 4 out of the 10 kept going.

When I looked straight ahead and didn't make eye contact but was very aware of what they were doing, no one moved. I was astounded. I did it more than 10 times because after realizing they didn't move, I stopped making eye contact.

I think, at least in this area, that if you make eye contact, it's almost like you are saying "Ok I see you ....I will YIELD to you". That's the only explanation I have, is that they think you are going to yield. Just wondering if anyone else has seen this? I noticed this especially with people backing out...it's like "okay the bike sees me, they'll stop". I think people think it's easier for us to stop or maybe we are looking for a reason to stop??

[KnottedYet]

Tahoe - yep, I've noticed that phenomenon here, too.

Yesterday I was walking through a parking lot crosswalk in front of a store and a woman backed into the crosswalk. She would have hit me if I hadn't jumped out of the way. She wasn't even looking. I kind of wish I had pounded on her trunk lid...

[salsabike]

Gee...I'm a cyclist AND a driver. A really careful driver. But drivers do have blind spots. I think we all need to try to be careful no matter what wheel we're behind. Best we can do.

[NbyNW]

On our bikes we tend to have better peripheral vision and we're also using our sense of hearing to be aware of our surroundings.

Drivers are not necessarily going to keep their windows down so that they can hear other approaching vehicles, bikes, or pedestrians.

Yes, cars have blind spots, but even in the best of car designs, it can also be hard to see around things, like the car next to you when you're pulling out of a 90-degree parking spot, or the car that is parked too close to an intersection (:mad: pet peeve). Sometimes there's a tree or some other thing obstructing a driver's view.

That said, it's still the driver's responsibility to proceed with caution in these situations, and when I am riding my bike in or near a place where a driver might not have a great view, I try to be that much more aware of what is going on around me.

In my job we often have to design plantings around sight triangles. A lot of municipal codes will specify how far back you can place anything taller than a certain height (something below a driver's eye level) from where a driveway meets a road, for example. But some things get grandfathered in, and sometimes enforcement is just lousy.

[Grog]

Eye contact + (very important) hand signal.

I have had only one driver in two years going forward despite my motioning "stop" with my extended arm and hand (think traffic cop).

Always, always expect drivers not to be looking for you.

[OakLeaf]

I don't believe that eye contact does anything, either. They'll look right at you and pull out in front of you. Waving is probably more reliable for ensuring that someone actually sees you, but waves are so subject to interpretation, I wouldn't rely on that, either.

I assume two things: (1) most of 'em don't see me, and (2) those that do, are TRYING to hit me.

Assuming that cars are NOT going to hit me is the same as giving the responsibility for my safety over to them. That's never going to keep me safe. I will make a couple of assumptions just for the sake of traffic flow. I assume that someone stopped at a red light is not going to start moving and go straight (or left, if it's a two-way street) before the light turns green. I will assume that someone is not going to turn where there is no intersection or driveway. Those are about the only times I cede the responsibility for my safety to car drivers.

[Serendipity]

Nope. They don't. And don't expect them to. They hit large cars on a regular basis. What makes you think they will see you on your bike? That's the way I ride.


Agree totally with that comment - and way too many of them are doing other things besides paying attention while they are driving....cell phones specifically :( :( :(

So many times I've had a vehicle pull up just ahead of me and immediately turn right...what the heck was that about?

Here's my thought - every driver should be required to spend at least XX hours riding a bike in traffic before getting (or renewing) their licence. Maybe then they would understand and possibly pay a bit more attention when driving.

One can only hope! Okay, I'll get off my soapbox now. :D

On the other hand, there are those drivers that wait for me to go through an intersection before turning left, those that give me a wide berth when passing me and those that give me lots of room when I'm the first in line waiting for a red light. So, it's not all bad.

[maillotpois]

Jo - I do that, too - the wave!

The other issue with the Prius is you can't HEAR the darned thing half the time because the engine shuts down. :mad: I know it's all green and everything, but combine that with the blind spots and it seems like the car's going out of its way to make life tough for cyclists. What irony.

[Thorn]

The other issue with the Prius is you can't HEAR the darned thing half the time because the engine shuts down.

Yeah, as a Prius driver, whenever I'm in low speed or approaching bikes, I'm constantly questioning if I'm on electric or gas. But, as most cyclists when they get behind the wheel of a car, I also tend to give a lot of room when passing.

For me today, it wasn't Prius' that kept backing out at me...this morning it was middle aged women with a 1950's-style flip hair do. Three out of three vehicles that tried to take me out this morning....bizarre coincidence

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

How not to get hit by cars:
http://bicyclesafe.com/

(Doesn't cover the backing-out-of-driving issue specifically, but if you follow the general advice about assuming you are invisible to cars, then you should be ok there too)

[lovelylibrarian]

The one time I was hit by a car a few months ago was when a driver backed into me. I actually hit him because I didn't have enough time to stop. I now don't drive so close to the side of road. I'm also more attentive instead of daydreaming during my ride to work.

[VeloVT]

Re making eye contact --
when I am approaching an intersection in which I will have the right of way, but there are vehicles approaching/stopped/rolling forward/etc that might possibly think I would yield to them, I will BOTH make eye contact and move as far over in the lane as I possibly can (if it is a large intersection or busy road that I am familiar with, I will actually anticipate ahead of time and look for a break in traffic so I can cut in), signalling to them that I have every intention of proceeding straight through the intersection. I will do this with driveways and parking lot entrances when there is a vehicle nosing forward too, and I try to look as far ahead as I can so I have plenty of time to do this without causing other problems with traffic in my lane (if necessary I will give a hand signal to warn cars behind me). In an actual intersection, when I'm halfway past the car, I will give a nice wave to acknowledge that I appreciate the fact that they respected my right of way ;).

I have also learned (by near accident) that when traffic is moving more slowly than I would like to ride, it is unfortunately safer to pull in line with traffic and roll along at 9 miles an hour than it is to speed along the right shoulder, moving up the line. Cars will NOT be looking for you in that situation and may just turn right into you, sans signal. This somewhat reduces the speed advantage that cycling can have in urban situations, but I'll take safety over speed if I have to choose, I guess.

[Grog]

I have also learned (by near accident) that when traffic is moving more slowly than I would like to ride, it is unfortunately safer to pull in line with traffic and roll along at 9 miles an hour than it is to speed along the right shoulder, moving up the line. Cars will NOT be looking for you in that situation and may just turn right into you, sans signal. This somewhat reduces the speed advantage that cycling can have in urban situations, but I'll take safety over speed if I have to choose, I guess.

A girlfriend of mine was doored while passing on the right in the way you describe. It hurt when I had to tell her that technically the passenger who opened the door was not at fault (my friend was not in a bike lane). :(

I also am sometimes slower on the bike route than other cyclists who will go around cars in dubious ways (jumping on the sidewalk or passing on the right when it's definitely not safe). Most of the time I catch up with them at the next intersection anyway.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

don't ride in the 'door zone'. Better to take the lane if the door zone is the only alternative.

don't pass lines of slower cars on their right when there is no bike lane there. Passing on the right will eventually get you hit by a car.

don't be on the right side of the lane in an intersection if you are planning to go straight or make a left turn.

don't stop next to cars or trucks waiting at a stop light. Wait your turn behind one of them, in the middle of your lane, along with the other vehicles.

do make broad hand signals to all the drivers around you to let them know what your plan is in all decisive traffic situations.

do assume that car drivers simply do not see you.

do be aware that most drivers are not expecting bikers in pedestrian crosswalks. Huge numbers of bikers are hit by cars while attempting to bike across crosswalks. Get off and walk your bike across crosswalks, or at least be alert and ready for danger there.