Aluminum frames?

[Chile Pepper]

My current bike is a classic steel. It fits great--I'm really comfortable on it. But it weighs 24 pounds, has old-style gearing (42/52 up front and seven cogs on the back), and it isn't exactly zippy. So I've started wondering if it's time to upgrade.

My problem is that here in Chile, the options are aluminum or carbon. That's not what I would choose if I lived in the States. I've always had a bad impression of aluminum, and carbon is really expensive. I looked at the Madone 5.1 (14% over MSR) and 5.2 (20% over), but they seem like a lot of bike for someone who does maybe 5,000 kilometers a year and has very few options for organized rides (although it sure is tempting). The other carbon option I found is Fuji--I wasn't impressed, and they were 30–50% over MSR!

So, I'm wondering if aluminum is worth considering, despite my bias against it. I suppose I'd be getting something in a comparable range to what I have now (in terms of quality at the time of purchase), only with modern components. Is it worth it? Will I hate the ride compared to steel? Or will the lighter weight have me zipping up hills? Any thoughts?

[divingbiker]

Can you combine the two, and get an aluminum bike with a carbon fork and seat stays? That's what I've got (Specialized Sequoia) and it's pretty comfortable.

[Thorn]

How much of the weight on your current bike is the frame? Given the mark-up you're seeing on complete bikes, would you be better served upgrading components and wheels? A lighter set of wheels and a lighter bottom bracket/drive train might shed a few pounds and make your comfy bike soar up those hills.

I've ridden steel and I've ridden aluminum. I like my steel. But you can get a harsh ride with steel and a smooth ride with aluminum....it all depends on how it is crafted.

[amy]

I have the madone 5.2 and absoltely love it. It was far fancier than I needed, maybe it still is, but I LOVE it. It's comfortable, it's fast, did I say I love it? My husband has an aluminum frame and carbon fork and seat stay (Cannondale). He loves his, too. I'd say ride them and you'll know what feels right. Good luck!!

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Divingbiker's suggestion sounds good.

So you ride about 3,000 miles per year- that's a lot, but not a huge amount of distance riding. I imagine in Chile you might be doing some pretty hilly riding too?
If I were in your position, I would definitely consider the aluminum bikes. Yes they will help you climb hills because of their light weight. And the money difference is nothing to sneeze at. With the savings, you can get a higher level of components which will mean smoother shifting, etc.
The only reason to hesitate on the aluminum is if you like to do really long rides of over 150 km maybe, or if you like to ride multi-day tours. Then again some people do all that on aluminum bikes with no problems.
Go test ride a couple! :)

[Aggie_Ama]

I have ridden steel, carbon and aluminum. My favorite is the carbon but it barely edges out the steel. The steel had an aluminum fork and my main complaint was shoulder/hand fatigue. Otherwise I really liked the steel.

The aluminum I do not like even though it has a carbon fork and seatpost the ride is harsh but I will say the bike doesn't fit me as well and is a lot lower end bike all around. Going from steel to aluminum you will likely notice a difference in the amount of road you feel. I am spoiled and hate it when I ride my commuter (the aluminum bike) on a rough road. But BSG makes excellent points on the stiffness and price savings. FWIW my husband rides an aluminum bike with carbon fork/seat post and loves it. He does 100 mile rides on it.

The Carbon is snappy and absorbs road vibration well. I like it but it is more expensive and there is the slightly less durable factor. I like carbon but I am a comfort weenie and do not want to sacrifice there. They are great for a stiff bike that is also good on the comfort level but then again people are perfectly happy on aluminum.

You just better test ride. :)

[ilima]

After my first ride on my Merlin, I sold my aluminum Felt and I will never buy another (except maybe a townie type bike). On rough road, it made my teeth chatter.

Yes, aluminum will weigh a bit less, but not all that much. Like Thorn said, you might be able to lighten your current bike a bit with component changes. Wheels will have the biggest impact.

And if you're like me, you probably have a few pounds you could loose from yer bum.

[7rider]

Is it worth it? Will I hate the ride compared to steel? Or will the lighter weight have me zipping up hills? Any thoughts?

I don't know if anyone can really answers these questions for you. We can all throw out our opinions. They're free and readily available. However, only YOU can tell US whether or not you hate the ride of aluminum vs. steel. Or if carbon is worth it. I think any lighter weight bike with reasonable high quality components may help in your desire to zip up hills. Of course...it's your legs doing the work...not ours! :cool:

But, just remember, a carbon bike from Trek is not going to ride like a carbon bike from Fuji. Similarly, an aluminum bike from one brand won't necessarily ride like an aluminum bike from another brand. There are differences in geometry and quality of the materials.

Just ride, ride, ride, and see which bike talks to you.

[maillotpois]

This has been mentioned many times in this forum, and even within this thread, but it bears repeating: the way a bike "feels" has less to do with frame material than frame geometry and key components (wheels, fork, etc.)

My aluminum race bike has carried me through most of my double centuries and a 600k. Nothing harsh about the ride at all.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

This has been mentioned many times in this forum, and even within this thread, but it bears repeating: the way a bike "feels" has less to do with frame material than frame geometry and key components (wheels, fork, etc.)

I think all these factors come into play, but I don't agree with the frame material being less important than the other factors.
If all frame materials (steel, carbon, aluminum, titanium) were really equally comfortable, why would anyone bother buying anything but aluminum frames? They're cheap, light, and easily made, easily replaceable. So then why would anyone spend ten times the money on a carbon or titanium frame? :confused:

[maillotpois]

Good point, Lisa - I was over generalizing. But really, the geometry and key components are critical to how the bike feels and can make more difference than the materials, depending on the bike.

So bottom line is get out and test ride bikes and see what is available and how they feel.

[7rider]

It's complicated.

Take aluminum bike "A". Bike has full Shimano 105 on it and Brand X wheels.
Rides a certain way. Maybe you like it, maybe you don't. Take off Brand X wheels, and put on Brand Z wheels. Bike will ride very differently. Maybe all of a sudden, you like it. Wheels made all the difference.

Take carbon bike "B". Bike has full Shimano 105 and the same Brand X wheels. It's going to ride very diffently compared to the aluminum bike. Here, the frame made the difference.

Then, to complicate matters more....take the TIRES off the Brand X wheels, and put on different rubber. Bike rides differently again.

That's why side-by-side rides are valuable. Play a little with the pieces-parts.

And "comfort" is really a personal opinion. What's comfortable for me, may not be comfortable for you.....

ETA: Sounds like everyone agrees, ChiliPepper...get out and ride!

[malkin]

WAIT!
Decisions about buying stuff are supposed to be rational?!

*hanging head and blushing*
I've been doing it all wrong for a half century.

[Chile Pepper]

Thanks for all the great replies. I really have a lot to think about. Our roads here are pretty rough--even the ones that are in good shape (and the majority aren't--lots of cracks and repaired potholes and even real potholes to negotiate). That's one of the main reasons I would consider carbon. I haven't really thought much about upgrading my current frame. That might be a good option for now--lighter wheels (I know I can get Mavic, not sure about other options), a new crankset to improve my front gearing. Could I get eight cogs on the back without spreading the frame?

As to testing bikes, I'll have to see what I can do. All the bike shops are in Santiago, which complicates things, and I'm not sure how much test riding they allow.

[malkin]

For bumpy roads, aluminum would rattle my brain. Then I'd never be able to say:

Are you copper-bottoming'em my man?
No, I'm aluminiuming'em mum.

[ilima]

I was just giving my opinion. I really didn't realize how harsh the alu ride was until I rode Ti.

Now that I'm used to the buttery ride of Ti, I notice that the ride of my steel LeMond (same wheels+handlebars) just isn't quite as smooth.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Good point, Lisa - I was over generalizing. But really, the geometry and key components are critical to how the bike feels and can make more difference than the materials, depending on the bike.


Well I certainly can agree with that! :)
No matter what the frame material is, if the bike geometry is wrong for a particular person, that bike will never feel good to them.

[TxDoc]

My current bike is a classic steel. It fits great--I'm really comfortable on it. But it weighs 24 pounds, has old-style gearing (42/52 up front and seven cogs on the back), and it isn't exactly zippy. So I've started wondering if it's time to upgrade.

My problem is that here in Chile, the options are aluminum or carbon. That's not what I would choose if I lived in the States. I've always had a bad impression of aluminum, and carbon is really expensive. I looked at the Madone 5.1 (14% over MSR) and 5.2 (20% over), but they seem like a lot of bike for someone who does maybe 5,000 kilometers a year and has very few options for organized rides (although it sure is tempting). The other carbon option I found is Fuji--I wasn't impressed, and they were 30–50% over MSR!

So, I'm wondering if aluminum is worth considering, despite my bias against it. I suppose I'd be getting something in a comparable range to what I have now (in terms of quality at the time of purchase), only with modern components. Is it worth it? Will I hate the ride compared to steel? Or will the lighter weight have me zipping up hills? Any thoughts?

Hi, not to be the devil's advocate, we always tell people to buy a new bike here, but maybe you could just upgrade?
First of all, let me write my usual disclaimer: I am no expert at all!!! These are just my two cents from the very litle I know about bikes, so don;t quote me too much ;)
What frame do you have, and what kind of steel? The reason I ask is that from your description yes the complete bike is heavy - but the components sound quite old, and so I'm guessing that group, wheelset, fork, bars, seatpost, stem, etc may actually contribute a lot of that weight. You could try to determine is what percentage of those 24lbs come from the frame, and how much from the components. And if the most weight does come from the frame, then yes, it is time to test-ride new bikes until you find the one that is right for you. But if it ends up that the frame per se is not awfully heavy (some manufacturers like Luna bikes etc make really light steel frames) - maybe you could save money by changing components. Components can change everything: for example I swapped out most components on a steel bike, got rid of all that was stock and replaced it with lightweight carbon parts, and now the complete bicycle is like 6lbs lighter. Now that is a difference that you would notice on the hills :)
So if you like your bike and it is a good fit, try to find out if it's the frame that is really too heavy - or if maybe you can just make some changes.
If in the end the frame is heavy and you go looking for a new bike - I would suggest to let go of aluminum, and save money for either titanium or carbon or a Ti-carbon. Considering that you describe your roads as tough - I would place titanium as the best option. But either way, follow everyone's advice and ride, ride, ride: the moe bikes you test-ride - the closer you get to the one that is right for you!
Good luck!
:)

[Chile Pepper]

Well, I finally had a real conversation about this with my husband. He really doesn't think my steel frame is worth upgrading. And he doesn't think it makes sense to make a parallel move to a bike of similar quality but with more modern components. He seems to think the best option is the Madone. I'm so glad I married this guy! But, strangely, as soon as I started asking about when we could go into Santiago together to look at it more seriously, his schedule got really full. To be continued...

[Chile Pepper]

And now a silly question: does Madone rhyme with drone or is it pronounced more like Madonna?

[SouthernBelle]

Rhymes with drone

[MauiRockHopper]

Well, I finally had a real conversation about this with my husband. He really doesn't think my steel frame is worth upgrading. And he doesn't think it makes sense to make a parallel move to a bike of similar quality but with more modern components. He seems to think the best option is the Madone. I'm so glad I married this guy! But, strangely, as soon as I started asking about when we could go into Santiago together to look at it more seriously, his schedule got really full. To be continued...

Any update on what you tested and/or bought? I'm in the same position in Hawaii as far as no WSD bikes in the LBS to test out. Most are all special order. It's so stupid that the bike shops never seem to have any in stock and they say when they get them in stock they sell right away. Duh. Meanwhile their racks are full of men's bikes that aren't selling...Maybe I should open up a WSD shop with full time fitters, it would be slamming!

[celerystalksme]

So...I'm jumping in this thread a little late...and it sounds like you want the Madone. and that's all very well and good...i think carbon is my favorite frame material.

BUT...if you want to get aluminum...realize that all aluminum is not created equal. Easton scandium is the preferred aluminum for those want aluminum that feels as close to steel as possible.

[Mr. Bloom]

I just went up from an Aluminum Lemond Reno to a Madone 5.5. I love them both, but I'm faster on the Madone.

I really still love the Reno. Don't write aluminum off.

[Chile Pepper]

Any update on what you tested and/or bought? I'm in the same position in Hawaii as far as no WSD bikes in the LBS to test out. Most are all special order. It's so stupid that the bike shops never seem to have any in stock and they say when they get them in stock they sell right away. Duh. Meanwhile their racks are full of men's bikes that aren't selling...Maybe I should open up a WSD shop with full time fitters, it would be slamming!

I wound up getting the men's Madone 5.1.I posted pics here:
http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=26224

They had a 2007 WSD, but it was a lot more expensive (DA components). I've always ridden men's bikes and been comfortable on them, so I didn't feel like the WSD was necessarily a better choice--and I didn't really get a chance to test ride much to really feel the difference. It was a lot flashier than the one I bought, and I prefer subtle.

Anyway, I'm loving my Madone. It's a 52 cm frame with a compact double. The WSD was a 51 cm with a triple. Sometimes when I'm running out of gears I start thinking I should have spent the extra $2k for the triple, but I'm getting used to the compact and starting to use my gears more efficiently. I'm also just getting started again after a slow winter, so I think it'll just keep getting better as the season progresses. One thing that did surprise me is that the bike does not pedal itself up the hills. I mean, for that price...

[Jiffer]

My husband doesn't like triples at all and always tells me not to let anyone convince me otherwise. :) He says they have more shifting problems, i.e. don't shift as smoothly and/or chain comes off ... much more often than a double or compact double. We have a triple on our tandem and always have problems, and it's a nice triple. But his opinion isn't only based on our tandem.

So, maybe that will make you feel better about your compact double. I know there are a lot of people that feel otherwise, but those are his two cents.

I have an aluminum frame, by the way. Cannondale CAAD9 with carbon fork and seat posts. Love it. But if I were riding on bumpy roads as often as you, I might want a comfier ride. Mine's built for speed and I need all the help I can get in that area!!! :D

On a side note, there are different grades of carbon, making for a different feel for every carbon frame made.

Congrats on the new bike! Now ... GO RIDE IT!!!!!!

[Chile Pepper]

My husband doesn't like triples at all and always tells me not to let anyone convince me otherwise. :) He says they have more shifting problems, i.e. don't shift as smoothly and/or chain comes off ... much more often than a double or compact double.

Has he been talking to my husband? Mine doesn't like them either.

As to the different levels of carbon, my 5.1 is Trek's white OCLV. It is really, really nice on these bumpy roads. So much gentler than my steel bike.