View Full Version : Cyclists getting ticketed in DC
divingbiker
08-22-2008, 05:23 AM
DC police are cracking down on bicyclists. One of my coworkers got a $25 ticket this morning for running a red light. Our building's bike coordinator also sent out a note saying they were stepping up enforcement.
I don't necessarily think this is a bad thing, because there are some really aggressive folks on bikes around here who don't obey any traffic laws and tick off drivers.
Increased enforcement won't affect me much, since I always respect red lights anyway (although if no traffic is coming, I have been known to run the light after stopping). Stop signs are another story, though...most are four-way on my route, and if there are no cars, I do roll through. Might have to stop that practice.
Kalidurga
08-22-2008, 05:37 AM
A young girl who was interning for us earlier this year got a similar ticket. She also said that a friend of hers got one for jay-walking. Now, if they'd only crack down on the cars that consistently run the red light at Connecticut and M.....
Sheesh
08-22-2008, 05:59 AM
Chicago police are giving warnings first (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-bike-laws-crackdown-webaug22,0,3716423.story), but tickets will soon follow.
7rider
08-22-2008, 06:03 AM
DB...do you have a link to anything - from WABA or on the Post - that publicizes an enforcement effort by DC police? I'd like to give a heads up to our local commuters, too.
As with you, KD, I'm still waiting for them to crack down on the motoring red-light and SS runners (or the countless cars I see taking a right turn on red, right under the big ol' sign that says "no turn on red").
divingbiker
08-22-2008, 06:13 AM
DB...do you have a link to anything - from WABA or on the Post - that publicizes an enforcement effort by DC police? I'd like to give a heads up to our local commuters, too.
Sorry, no. I did see on WABA's website (http://waba.org/takeaction/MPD.php) that they were meeting with DC police on August 15 to talk about a "sting" enforcement effort that was going on at 16th and U that seemed to follow too closely the death of the young woman a few weeks ago.
Maybe this enforcement effort is a result of that meeting...if so, I'm sure that's not the outcome WABA was hoping for.
ny biker
08-22-2008, 07:52 AM
I thought I read an email saying the meeting with the police was postponed. But I might be remembering that wrong...
There's nothing on the Bikewashington listserv about this, at least not yet.
mimitabby
08-22-2008, 07:59 AM
Nothing wrong with cyclists breaking the law getting ticketed IMHO.
why should we be above the law?
besides, it might save some lives!
Thorn
08-22-2008, 08:23 AM
Nothing wrong with cyclists breaking the law getting ticketed IMHO.
Agreed as long as treatment is equal. Within the state, a cyclist got doored. While in the ER, the police stopped by to deliver her ticket for failing to yield 3 feet when passing a parked vehicle.
While I agree, she probably violated the 3-foot passing rule, the car driver that opened the door was not also ticketed for obstructing traffic--the ticket that is supposed to be issued to any car that opens a door into traffic.
Yep, ticket for violating traffic laws, but ticket equally. Oh, and disclaimer--I never run stop lights, but I will roll stop signs if there are no cars and I have full visibility when approaching the intersection. Should I be ticketed for those? Yes, by the letter of the law, but so should the cars that go through faster than I and, due to the nature of their vehicle don't have the same visibility.
LainiePants
08-22-2008, 08:35 AM
Only $25 for running a red light? That doesn't sound like much..... Is it the same for a car running a red light? Just curious.
divingbiker
08-22-2008, 08:59 AM
Nothing wrong with cyclists breaking the law getting ticketed IMHO.
why should we be above the law?
besides, it might save some lives!
I agree. That's why I said in my original post, I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing.
TahoeDirtGirl
08-22-2008, 09:45 AM
The thing I would like to know is...does it go on your license? Does a ticket that you get on a bike effect (or affect? hmmm) your driving record and subsequently your insurance bill? Just curious.
Law enforcement is still done by humans, therefore there will always be that subjectivity. Some people will get tickets for the same thing another person won't.
A few days ago (I correlate it to the moon) I had a guy on a very nice Trek ride right through a red light. Not a just turn red, a 'solid red'. And wave at me like..."Hi thanks for letting me go on with my ride and almost getting wiped out by you". And the first thing that runs through my mind is ....thanks buddy for solidifying the "Freaking people on bikes!!!" thinking...:(
While at physical therapy yesterday, my PT told me that a friend of hers was training on the C & O (cycling) for the Iron Girl and got a ticket for speeding!
I wish I could have been there to see it :D
ny biker
08-22-2008, 12:53 PM
While at physical therapy yesterday, my PT told me that a friend of hers was training on the C & O (cycling) for the Iron Girl and got a ticket for speeding!
I wish I could have been there to see it :D
I can just imagine the park policeman hiding behind a tree with a radar gun...
jsdilks
08-22-2008, 03:54 PM
It's even more important at this time of year, when the sun is shifting in the sky and visibility it so impaired, that bikers pay attention to cars. And following the rules of the road is just one way to help keep everyone safe. A young lady who works with my husband, and who rides with us occasionally (our other daughter...) was hit by a car at Thomas circle yesterday on her way to work. Now, she's not known for paying super close attention, nor has she probably learned all there is to learn about anticipating others' actions, but she said that she did not even see the car. And the Driver said that she did not see the bike either. The rider was all right - thrown from her bike and ending up with bumps and bruises. Thank goodness she wears her helmet religiously. But the policeman who took her home told her that 75% of the accidents that are investigated at that location are bike/car accidents. And we had *just* had a conversation Tuesday that was as follows:"We need to find me another way to get to work. I'm going to get hit by a car..." and a day and a half later, she was hit by a car...(so I'm trying not to freak out too much - but there aren't good routes for her in the city without taking her out of her way, but I know we'll recommend them...it's up to her to decide if she's going to try them)
smilingcat
08-22-2008, 06:06 PM
Here in California, if you get ticketed on your bike, it will show up on your driver license.
I've seen three men getting pulled over for blowing through a stop sign. Motorcycle police was waiting for his turn at the stop sign when the three men just blew in front of him. All three got a ticket. This was in Redondo Beach. Over in Palos Verdes, they even post signs by stop signs saying that they enforce all traffic laws to everyone "including cyclists"
I stop for my own safety. I have no desire to be shot into the corner pocket by some driver who blows through the stop sign. Stopping at cross street really doesn't affect my workout.
hmm... I have had motorcycle police tell me how fast I was going. Not enough to get a speeding ticket. The roads around here have limits of 35MPH or higher. So its bit hard to be over the limit.
be safe,
Possegal
08-22-2008, 07:31 PM
i was riding on tuesday and i went by a montgomery county cop sitting on the sidelines quietly hiding, i assume to monitor car's speed. he waved at me, i waved back. but i really wanted to yell at him - are you going to use the gun on me? how fast am i going? :)
last year during the livestrong ride, my sister and i were 'slowski-ing' along and there was one of those signs that monitors speed. at first, nothing was registering. and we broke up laughing. then, it flashed 11 mph, and at first, i looked behind us. then i realized there was no one but us, and we cheered - we're going 11 mph!!! :)
sgtiger
08-22-2008, 08:31 PM
The thing I would like to know is...does it go on your license? Does a ticket that you get on a bike effect (or affect? hmmm) your driving record and subsequently your insurance bill? Just curious.
:(
I know that it can in Washington state. A husband of one of the women I occasionally used to ride with received a speeding ticket on one of the trails just north of Seattle. Two weeks after the ticket, they received a letter from their insurance company that informed them their premiums were raised due to his moving violation.
blueskies
08-22-2008, 09:31 PM
There's one particular cop who's been ticketing bikes in North Plains (near Hillsboro), Oregon. He tickets anyone who doesn't come to a complete foot-to-the-ground stop. $300+. Not just the ones who blast through, even the people who slow to a near stop, see that it's clear, & go. (On West Union, where it enters North Plains, if you ride in the area...)
TahoeDirtGirl
08-25-2008, 04:49 PM
It's almost like virtual reality becomes reality...I was riding this wknd when a tandem bike ran a stop sign and I almost hit them. I could not believe it. No "sorry" or even a "whoops"...and then I had to pass them (hauling squash, corn on the cob and peaches :D)?! I hit my LBS on the way home and they knew who they were, so I told them to pass on a nice word of advice. Obey the signs and keep pedaling if you are going to pull out dagnabit! Like I said, nothing I would of ever even thought of...but there's a stop sign there for a reason!!
SadieKate
08-25-2008, 05:18 PM
There's one particular cop who's been ticketing bikes in North Plains (near Hillsboro), Oregon. He tickets anyone who doesn't come to a complete foot-to-the-ground stop. $300+. Not just the ones who blast through, even the people who slow to a near stop, see that it's clear, & go. (On West Union, where it enters North Plains, if you ride in the area...)
Hmm, I just read through three different official Oregon driver and bike manuals again plus I remembered a Bob Mionske article (love, love, love him). I hope that cop gets himself a little larnin'.
A "near stop" is a gray area and could be open for opinion, but a track stand sure isn't. Where does it say in Oregon law that a foot must be placed on the ground?
http://www.velonews.com/article/3834
http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/HWY/BIKEPED/
http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/HWY/BIKEPED/laws_regs.shtml
Mionske article.
http://www.velonews.com/article/3834
madscot13
08-25-2008, 06:35 PM
Agreed as long as treatment is equal. Within the state, a cyclist got doored. While in the ER, the police stopped by to deliver her ticket for failing to yield 3 feet when passing a parked vehicle.
While I agree, she probably violated the 3-foot passing rule, the car driver that opened the door was not also ticketed for obstructing traffic--the ticket that is supposed to be issued to any car that opens a door into traffic.
Yep, ticket for violating traffic laws, but ticket equally. Oh, and disclaimer--I never run stop lights, but I will roll stop signs if there are no cars and I have full visibility when approaching the intersection. Should I be ticketed for those? Yes, by the letter of the law, but so should the cars that go through faster than I and, due to the nature of their vehicle don't have the same visibility.
that ticks me off. sorry. but it is a damned if you do, damned if you don't. if you ride in the lane, everyone gets ticked off at you, cabs brush against you, and you are in danger of obstructing traffic in that sense also. If you go as far to the right as possible, which in DC makes you practically a curb rider- our lanes get so narrow, you get doored and blamed for it. Also, what is with the cars that have to drive 2 feet more to the right of everyone else? you aren't passing, you aren't turning. What are you doing? I know what the legal rules are for riding in DC, but I would like a little space and respect as a bicyclist/ person.
(sorry for the aggression/ cursing in this post)
Last weekend, I spoke with a park ranger about ticketing on the capital crescent because of aggressive bikers that are biking dangerously as well as inciting violence (i believe this goes both ways with runners, according to the story she told). Currently the city is giving warnings to bikers on the Mt. Vernon trail. If we don't watch our act, the same thing will happen to there. I would like to be able to bike without being endangered, so please mind your biking manners everyone!
ps I was biking downtown today. don't tell my mother
madscot13
08-25-2008, 06:37 PM
i was riding on tuesday and i went by a montgomery county cop sitting on the sidelines quietly hiding, i assume to monitor car's speed. he waved at me, i waved back. but i really wanted to yell at him - are you going to use the gun on me? how fast am i going? :)
a few weekends ago, a cop was sitting at an unlikely speed trap (isn't that the way it always is?). When we biked by, he gave us our speed! :D I am happy to say, I was going 30 miles below the speed limit.
jsdilks
08-29-2008, 04:48 AM
A young lady who works with my husband, and who rides with us occasionally (our other daughter...) was hit by a car at Thomas circle yesterday on her way to work.
We suggested a different route for her to try - a little out of the way, but over on Calvert and down Rock Creek Parkway and on in through the monuments that way. She tried it the other day and said it was a lot less stressful. Now I need to work on her paying closer attention...I expect she will for awhile.
I know that it can in Washington state. A husband of one of the women I occasionally used to ride with received a speeding ticket on one of the trails just north of Seattle. Two weeks after the ticket, they received a letter from their insurance company that informed them their premiums were raised due to his moving violation.
He should have fought that one.... I think with the way the laws are written in Washington his ticket never should have counted for points.... (though I did hear of a guy who got 2 tickets in one day over on MI, both for speeding, maybe in a school zone, and his insurance premiums were raised too....) Since you don't need a driving license or driving insurance to ride a bike, I'd say it's a bit sketchy to check that box on the ticket. What would they do with someone who had no car and only an ID.... and remember you don't actually have to hand over ID to a cop ever (unless you are driving a car - you give up lots of rights when you drive) - you just cannot lie about your name.
7rider
08-29-2008, 06:44 AM
If you go as far to the right as possible, which in DC makes you practically a curb rider- our lanes get so narrow, you get doored and blamed for it. Also, what is with the cars that have to drive 2 feet more to the right of everyone else? you aren't passing, you aren't turning. What are you doing? I know what the legal rules are for riding in DC, but I would like a little space and respect as a bicyclist/ person.
According to the summary of laws WABA posts - http://www.waba.org/areabiking/bikelaws.php - it is illegal to "door" in DC and MD (VA is silent on the issue). WABA doesn't cite the section of the code, but I'm sure it's there if you looked.
Geonz
08-29-2008, 11:05 AM
I went by a radar cop in a school zone and he shouted out with faux-military sharpness "That's 12 miles per hour, Ma'm!!" and grinned. Next day I got it to 14 :D
According to the summary of laws WABA posts - http://www.waba.org/areabiking/bikelaws.php - it is illegal to "door" in DC and MD (VA is silent on the issue). WABA doesn't cite the section of the code, but I'm sure it's there if you looked.
It is also illegal to door (or more precisely negligently open your door into traffic) here in WA state. If the rider had been here it would have been the driver who was cited not the cyclist. I still *never* ride in the door zone - I won't even ride in a bike lane if it is within the door zone. WA state law says we are not required to use bike lanes and only to ride as far right as is safe....
madscot13
08-29-2008, 02:11 PM
may I say that it is a lot easier to watch for traffic/ bikes coming from behind before you open your door then for a bicyclist to see when a car might open its door. Sometimes I have no idea that there is a person in a car until I pass it. this is most likely in SUVs. there are a lot of SUV's in DC.
I've been looking and can't figure out if it's illegal to door here in MN. It definitely was illegal in 2003, but I can't find anything in the newer versions of the statues. I can't imagine they decided to do away with that statute and make it legal here, but then, you never know...
Oops. nevermind. I found it, it's still there.
There's one particular cop who's been ticketing bikes in North Plains (near Hillsboro), Oregon. He tickets anyone who doesn't come to a complete foot-to-the-ground stop. $300+. Not just the ones who blast through, even the people who slow to a near stop, see that it's clear, & go. (On West Union, where it enters North Plains, if you ride in the area...)
Looks like this fellow has been put straight about what the law actually says and stopped from his ticketing ways.... (found this on the Cascade board)
A small Oregon town's cop (little berg=North Plains) was really zealous a year or so back. He found it necessary to ticket all riders who didn't put a foot down insisting that it was required. It took a judge to point out that in Oregon law there is no requirement that a foot be placed on the ground, either by cyclists or auto drivers.
The cop is still over zealous, but has stopped issuing tickets to cyclists for not placing a foot on the ground.
Tuckervill
08-29-2008, 05:32 PM
Holy cow, what a waste of resources! Couldn't he just have looked it up on the internet?
Karen
Holy cow, what a waste of resources! Couldn't he just have looked it up on the internet?
Karen
I'm guessing what took a judge wasn't reading the law, but interpreting it. The cop's understanding (well at least the way he wanted to understand it) was that a cyclist could not stop (like the law says) without putting a foot down. The judge in the end disagreed. After all that is what judges are for. Police officers can only enforce the laws - judges get to interpret them.
I seldom put a foot down at intersections, unless I have to wait for more than 15 seconds to cross, but I am certainly more "stopped" than any of the cars who also "stop" at the same intersection. At any given moment my speed as I cross the stop line is definitely a lot slower than theirs. I very seldom see a car driver that actually stops at a stop sign.
tulip
09-01-2008, 04:34 PM
(so I'm trying not to freak out too much - but there aren't good routes for her in the city without taking her out of her way, but I know we'll recommend them...it's up to her to decide if she's going to try them)
The thing with bicycle commuting is that the best routes are often not the most direct routes. When I lived in PG County and worked in Alexandria, the most direct route was straight down Rhode Island Avenue. But that definitely wasn't the best route. Alternatives to Thomas Circle are plentiful on side streets. DC's a great bicycle commuting city because there are so many options for cyclists. Plus, mixing up the routes keeps things interesting.
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