an unfortunate incident

[blueskies]

I had a near wreck today on a local bike path. I was riding along, slowly, (it was a recovery ride on my old bike, on a drizzly day on a busy path), when the path curved to the right. I saw an older man standing off to the left side of the path, just as it curved. He was looking toward me. So, I slowed slightly & stayed toward the right, when suddenly, I saw that he was holding a retractable leash, which was strung out full length across the path & connected to a dog on the opposite side, just around the bend. (I couldn't see the dog until I started around the curve, because of the plantings along the path...)

I braked, let out a small yelp when I realized that I couldn't stop in time & thought that I was going to be taken down. Fortunately, the dog was short & the leash was low, and my front wheel pushed it down & under the bike. No wreck ensued, but my heart was racing.

I stopped & the man started to yell at me. "You're going too fast! This path is for walking! You shouldn't be riding a bike here, lady!"

I was really surprised to have him yelling at me, but I took a breath, and said what came in to my head in response, which was, "This is a multi-use path."

He yelled again, "You shouldn't be riding a bike here. It's for walking."

I said again "This is a multi-use path. It's for bikes and pedestrians."

He said, again yelling, "It's mainly for walkers & you shouldn't be going any faster than the slowest person."

At this point, I was shaking from the combination of the near wreck & the feeling of being attacked. I couldn't get my wits about me to communicate in any way that would be effective, and so I just got back on my bike & rode away.

Anyway, I mainly wish that I could have thought more clearly in the moment, so that I could have talked to him a little more effectively. I wish that I would have talked to him, not angrily, but just to explain that having the leash strung across the path like that created a hazard for anyone that came by. I wish I would have asked him to think about staying on the same side of the path that his dog is on, so he won't clothesline anyone else in the future. I mean it's pretty unlikely that he was going to say "Oh, you're right! My bad!" But maybe he would think about it in the future when he's out walking his dog.

I was almost in tears when I rode away, from the combination of near wreck & frustration at how I was treated. I wish I could have just had the clarity in the moment to represent myself more effectively.

Oh, well. I'm ok, the bike's ok, the dog's ok, and even the cranky man is ok.

[NbyNW]

Glad everyone's okay. I'm sorry that man felt that he had to yell at you.

Sometimes all you can do is remove yourself from a situation.

[shootingstar]

At this point, I was shaking from the combination of the near wreck & the feeling of being attacked. I couldn't get my wits about me to communicate in any way that would be effective, and so I just got back on my bike & rode away.

Anyway, I mainly wish that I could have thought more clearly in the moment, so that I could have talked to him a little more effectively. I wish that I would have talked to him, not angrily, but just to explain that having the leash strung across the path like that created a hazard for anyone that came by. I wish I would have asked him to think about staying on the same side of the path that his dog is on, so he won't clothesline anyone else in the future. I mean it's pretty unlikely that he was going to say "Oh, you're right! My bad!" But maybe he would think about it in the future when he's out walking his dog.

I was almost in tears when I rode away, from the combination of near wreck & frustration at how I was treated. I wish I could have just had the clarity in the moment to represent myself more effectively.

Oh, well. I'm ok, the bike's ok, the dog's ok, and even the cranky man is ok.

He is the sort of person that needs a reminder to stay on same side as dog. Just chalk it up to experience.

I had something similar happen to me..when I was riding a multi-use path..but 1 side was for cyclists. It was in the highly popular Stanley park here, several years ago where I was commuting homeward from work. It was abit twilight and the dog walker had his leashed dog carelessly across the path, the leash loose while he yaaked on cell phone. A clear indication he didn't care...or whatever. Wasn't going fast but I did go down abit on bike since I barely could see the leash.

My cycling partner who was with me...yelled at him. The guy got the message.

Now, I do yell out of my incoming presence or use the bell with dog walkers..if there's enough time.

Since I'm not a dog owner nor grew up in a dog/any pet household, I often wonder if my irritation at some dog-owners is reflective of not being a dog-owner. But my partner had various dogs at home for over 4 decades of his life and so if he gets really pissed off at some thoughtless dog owners on the path,...I use him as my benchmark.

I appreciate the dogs with reflective collars, little jackets, etc. Important for nightlifers on bikes.

[Zen]

I'm glad you're ok but I'm afraid the best argument-even a copy of the Rules Of The MUT- wouldn't persuade this guy.
From your description of the incident he sounds like the type of person who is always right and the world should revolve around him.
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb14/zencentury/Simpsons_Grampa.jpg

I don't care for MUTs.

[lph]

ah, I'm sorry, blueskies. It really sucks when you meet angry self-righteous people who can see no other side than their own :( Like, you were supposed to ride slow enough so you could stop and LIFT your bike over the leash?? He should have at least made a move towards one side.

[Mr. Bloom]

He said, again yelling, "It's mainly for walkers & you shouldn't be going any faster than the slowest person."


...so based on his logic, I suppose that there's no jogging allowed either?

Once while channel surfing, Silver and I came across a :eek:"Judge Judy":eek: show where a cyclist was suing for damage to his bike caused by a careless driver. The driver's defense was "there are XXX miles of bike paths in Minnesota...so he didn't belong on the road":eek::confused:

This older guy thinks that "his use" of the path is the "best use" of the path...and he'll have to reconcile that on his own.

So, here's a question. On one of my routes, to avoid traffic, I take a short cut on a short path for "pedestrian traffic only". I'm careful and no one has ever had an issue...but if someone did, isn't it true that a bicycle is "pedestrian"???? Government statistics for bikes are for "pedalcycles"

[uforgot]

So, here's a question. On one of my routes, to avoid traffic, I take a short cut on a short path for "pedestrian traffic only". I'm careful and no one has ever had an issue...but if someone did, isn't it true that a bicycle is "pedestrian"???? Government statistics for bikes are for "pedalcycles"

From answers.com

Definition: pedestrian
(pə-dĕs'trē-ən) pronunciation

n.

A person traveling on foot; a walker.


Regarding the clown with the dog: Every multi-use trail I've been on has posted rules stating that all traffic is to stay to the right except to pass. Having the dog leash across the trail makes him the rule breaker, not you. Glad you are okay. Can you imagine? Speed limit 1 mph.:eek:

[Miranda]

I hate it when what I really want to say doesn't come out of my mouth at the time I need it to. But, I agree, the advice about the leash would have fallen on deaf ears anyway.

I'm not a dog training expert, but IMHO, I think those retractable leashes should have never been invented. If trained properly, your dog should heel next to your left leg at all times unless instructed otherwise.

Even when we camp, the ground rules state "leads/tie outs, no longer than 6 feet". People don't follows it, but they have it for a reason. A safe distance containment.

I'm sorry this happened to you. I've had similiar things. Bleah!

[teigyr]

I'm sorry that happened and it must've been scary.

I don't have a dog but I've walked a LOT of them and I'd love to have one. From what I've noticed on MUT's, people can be really irresponsible. I don't get it. If you're walking your dog, communicate with the dog instead of being on the cell phone! The dog doesn't know enough not to get hurt by a cyclist or car so I think it's up to the human to ensure the dog is where it should be.

I run and ride on the same trail. When I run, the dogs are all cute and the walkers don't bother me. When I ride, I realize just how dangerous it is with the dogs running far ahead due to retractable leashes (IF they are leashed) and the people walking all over the trail just not on the side they are supposed to be on.

And no, the pedestrians simply don't get it. Some even think it's funny.

[Becky]

Those retractable leashes are evil! They give absolutely no control over the dog. No trainer I know from my animal shelter days will use or endorse them.

[sfa]

I hate those horrible retractable leashes. I don't think they should be allowed on a path like that--one of those leashes combined with a dog owner wearing an iPod is a lethal combination.

I think you handled it really well, and I'd bet that the guy's reaction was probably driven more by his own fear/adrenaline surge when he realized what COULD have happened than anything else. Maybe he's just a jerk, but maybe he's also a guy who will be more careful in the future. (But come on, no faster than the slowest walker? So we should all be going the pace of the 80 year old cardiac patient?)

Hmmm, I kinda like the idea of handing out the MUT rules to people you pass. I would have given four of them yesterday to people walking their dogs without leashes.

I'm glad everyone was OK!

Sarah

[OakLeaf]

On one of my routes, to avoid traffic, I take a short cut on a short path for "pedestrian traffic only". I'm careful and no one has ever had an issue...but if someone did, isn't it true that a bicycle is "pedestrian"???? Government statistics for bikes are for "pedalcycles"

NO!!! On pedestrian thoroughfares INCLUDING ALL SIDEWALKS cyclists must dismount and walk. This is a HUGE pet peeve of mine.

Now, I won't deny the rare instance of cheating when there are NO pedestrians on the sidewalk. But as soon as I see someone on foot coming the opposite direction, I dismount to pass them. Early enough that they don't have to adjust their pace and wonder whether I'm going to. No exceptions. Bikes don't belong in pedestrian lanes.

Now, of course, MUTs are a whole different beast, and the OP was absolutely in the right, but the simple fact that there is over a 1000% differential in the expected speeds of users of an 8 foot wide strip is exactly what makes MUTs so dangerous. Even when there aren't arrogant !@#$%@$#s insisting that all traffic should go THEIR speed.


ETA: of course, most people aren't at their best after a huge surge of adrenaline, so maybe after the guy had a little time to calm down, he may have realized he was in the wrong and decided to adjust his future behavior. Just glad everyone's safe, dog included - I've seen a dog and bike tangle on a MUT and it wasn't pretty :(

[divingbiker]

I had the same experience as blueskies a few months ago. An older man had his dog on a retractable leash, with the dog on one side of the trail and him on the other. I came up on them around a curve, slowly, and had to stop. I might have rung my bell. He started ranting that "you bike riders think you own the trail" and on and on.

I also didn't engage with him, just went on the grass and on my way, but I really wanted to tell him, "no, I don't think I own the trail, but I'd like to borrow just one little strip over here on the right if you don't mind."

I've got a retractable leash but haven't used it in about 11 years, since I saw how dangerous they are.

[TahoeDirtGirl]

OMG Zen that's exactly the old guy I was thinking of!

I hear you on the post conflict adrenaline rush. I hate that. I am with the other poster that stated that he probably figured out afterward that he was probably in the wrong, but he was too stubborn to say "My bad!"

When I was at my dad's last year, I went to a local multiuse trail park and while driving down the dirt road, a woman walking a dog started yelling at me "SLOW DOWN!!!!". I was going about 8 mph and it was posted for 15. I was so mad that I actually pulled over and walked up to her. Of course she simmered down...but I told her that if she had a problem the ranger is probably at the office. And she had a retractable leash and had her dog strung across the road!!

I just don't like that crazy drama people deal out.

For the record I have a retractable leash but I don't use it that often. If I'm going for a long walk where there is NO ONE, I use it, but if it's around where I'm staying in Mass (busy beach area), I don't use it. I don't want her that far from me. I think the 3 foot rule applies when you are on a multiuse trail (well the common sense 3 foot rule leash law-where the dog is not on a leash longer than 3 feet within your control).

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Too bad someone doesn't invent a James Bond-like retractable leash cutter for bikes that can razor-cut a leash as we ride through it.

[lph]

It's quite strange, but some people seem to get upset at the sheer speed of a bike. No matter how wide a berth you give them, no matter how early they see you coming, no matter that you slow down the second you see them and maybe pass them at a joggers pace - the fact that you at some point were moving a lot faster than they were truly upsets/provokes/frightens some people. And if you happen to wearing tightfitting lycra you're pretty much the devil incarnate.

I see it all the time on this one gravel road I ride in the woods. It's HUGE and completely straight, you could drive a logging truck down the one side and nary bother the walkers on the other side, but bike riders riding at an average training pace still get black looks from a certain segment of those walkers. As they pass with 10 feet to spare.

[Flybye]

Too bad someone doesn't invent a James Bond-like retractable leash cutter for bikes that can razor-cut a leash as we ride through it.

Hey, I think I just might have to agree with you on something for once :cool:

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Hey, I think I just might have to agree with you on something for once :cool:

Maybe it's best you don't- you wouldn't want it to become a bad habit. :( :o

[SouthernBelle]

Interestingly, dogs are not allowed on our local paths. At all.

I'll be riding some of the greenways in Nashville this weekend, but I'm not sure about the rules there. If I see them posted, I'll check.

[Tuckervill]

Devil's advocate. I had two Jack Russells and used retractable leashes when I walked them (mostly in campground settings). I never allowed my kids to use them because they couldn't control the dogs the way I could. I paid attention to the stinkin' dogs! It was like a ballet, having those dogs on a leash. Retractable leashes are the only way I could walk those dogs. I never had any "incidents" with them, except for the time some stupid dog owner had their dog's leash attached to a FLIP FLOP and thought that would hold the dog down and their dog attacked mine!

Yeah, yeah, training and all that. Those dogs are gone and I have more sane dogs, now. Retractable leashes are only as good as the people using them. Properly used, they're fine.

Also, from a pedestrian's viewpoint on a gravel road, every car is fast--and has the potential to throw rocks at almost any speed. Also, the dust that is thrown up is terrible. Bikes throw rocks in gravel, too. The pedestrian only knows this, and doesn't know if the driver/cyclist is paying attention enough to stop in time, or if she is taking the pedestrian into account. It's a vulnerable feeling walking down a road when a big noisy thing comes along. I experience this myself, and it's an instinctual feeling, that vulnerability.

Karen

[Iris616]

I'm sorry that happened to you. I agree with others that there probably isn't much you could've said in the moment that would've got through to the man. I don't have much skill at being witty or well spoken during an adrenalin rush.

Last month, I had an experience with an irresponsible dog owner. For 3 days in a row, I saw him "walking" his dog off leash (huge pet peave of mine). He had no control of the dog, who was running across every ones yards, doing his business every where. On the 3rd day his dog came after mine.
So,I said to him "your dog belongs on a leash at all times"
Him:"He most certainly does not. He is a creature of God and should be free"
Me:"It's the LAW!"
Him: Turned around and gave me the finger.
Man watching the whole thing from his driveway: "That's a godly response.":D

Just goes to show, that you can't always have a reasonable conversation with some people.

[PscyclePath]

I'm glad you're ok but I'm afraid the best argument-even a copy of the Rules Of The MUT- wouldn't persuade this guy.
From your description of the incident he sounds like the type of person who is always right and the world should revolve around him.


Might have been time to pretend he's Superman and let him have a little dose of Kryptonite... :eek:

[lph]

Him:"He most certainly does not. He is a creature of God and should be free"


:D well that sure is a novel way of being holier than thou :D

[divingbiker]

Him:"He most certainly does not. He is a creature of God and should be free"

I wonder what he thinks of zoos.:confused::confused:

[Flur]

Retractable leashes are only as good as the people using them. Properly used, they're fine.

+1. There are no bad leashes, only bad owners. :)

We use our retractable leash to walk our mini dachshund on the MUT at the lake by our house. He gets excited by people and wants to run up to everyone to get petted (he knows he's cute!), so when the path is narrow I can retract it to it's lowest setting (2.5 feet approx.) and keep him close. When the path is wider I can set it at a normal leash length (4-6 feet), and when we get to a clearing we can pull off and romp in the grass with a longer leash. And all this without losing blood flow to my hand like I would with a regular leash wrapped around it. This leash is a godsend pretty much everywhere (not just the MUT) b/c 4-6 feet can be too much for such a little dog in tight areas, but in more open areas w/o people or dogs around we can give him the full 16 feet and let him run a bit (we don't have a yard so this is great for him).

That said, in MN most paths are divided into pedestrian only and bike/skate. Usually they are separate paths that run parallel to each other with grass in between, and the bike/skate paths almost always are either one way, or two paths parallel, each one way, or one path with marked lanes, and they're all marked with pictures of bikes and the direction arrows. So when I say I walk him on a MUT, it's the pedestrian/stroller/dog walker/jogger path next to the bike/skate path.

[Pedal Wench]

So, here's a question. On one of my routes, to avoid traffic, I take a short cut on a short path for "pedestrian traffic only". I'm careful and no one has ever had an issue...but if someone did, isn't it true that a bicycle is "pedestrian"???? Government statistics for bikes are for "pedalcycles"

Mr. Silver, sorry, but under the law, bicycles are considered vehicles, NOT pedestrians. We have to follow the same rules that cars do, and give right of way to pedestrians.

[Grog]

Cyclists are definitely not pedestrians, at least they can't be both at the same time.

In North Vancouver along the water there is a walking, paved walking path that is reserved to pedestrians. The people there (a lot of retirees) will almost push a cyclist in the water if they see one! I discovered that one day when I took a wrong turn looking for the bike route (which is a designated street), and ended up on the promenade. For a few meters there was nobody and then a flurry of retirees doing their morning walk came around the next bend screaming at me that I had no business there on my bike. I kept apologizing and saying "Sorry I am lost!!" as I looked for the nearest exit, which thankfully came less than 500 meters later. Needless to say, I never went there again.

I'm sorry about your incident. I'm sure you did the right thing by rolling away... Hopefully you can find safer places to ride. In the meantime, perhaps ringing your bell before entering a blind corner?

[mimitabby]

I re-read what you said, and you said the right thing. The guy was full of it and he's lucky his dog wasn't hurt. what an idiot!

The last time I was in an altercation like that (actually woman and dog, both of us aiming for the curb cut and nearly having a head on collision ) I was only able to emit nonsense. kind of like "Ahhhh!!" "arrgggh!!!" "bwwwwaaaH!"
while she told me off.
so at least you were coherent!!

[fastdogs]

I hate retractable leashes too. Used properly, probably they are ok, but I'd venture to say MOST people using them do not seem to realize the length can be locked. They assume everyone wants to greet their dog and everyone else's dog wants to play with it.
I usually walk multiple dogs at a time, 2 to 4, and I don't want any other dogs coming up to them, it makes for tangled leashes and not much time to react if the other dog is aggressive. So I usually carry a 5 foot sjambok (long flexible stick) and keep other dogs at a distance.
The other owner usually says things like "he just wants to play" or "he's never done that before". I just tell them to please get control of their dog, and will whack the ground hard in the direction of the dog to let the owner and the dog know I'll use the stick if the dog gets close enough. I go to areas requiring leashes in hopes that I'll be able to walk the dogs in peace, but some people think the rules don't apply to them.
The owner probably knew he didn't reel in his dog quickly enough, and took it out on you. I'd probably have done the same thing- I can never think of the really good things to say until after the fact, then I brood over it all the way home, what I should have said.
vickie

[fastdogs]

I meant, not that I would have done the same thing as the stupid dog owner, but that I would have reacted like you did.
vickie

[Irulan]

What ever happened to training a dog to walk at heel on a fixed length leash? I swear it's a rare sight when you see a human taking a properly trained dog ( slack leash, heel) for a walk.

[ny biker]

NO!!! On pedestrian thoroughfares INCLUDING ALL SIDEWALKS cyclists must dismount and walk. This is a HUGE pet peeve of mine.

Now, I won't deny the rare instance of cheating when there are NO pedestrians on the sidewalk. But as soon as I see someone on foot coming the opposite direction, I dismount to pass them. Early enough that they don't have to adjust their pace and wonder whether I'm going to. No exceptions. Bikes don't belong in pedestrian lanes.

This is not true where I live. There is a specific area in downtown DC where bicycles are not allowed on sidewalks. Elsewhere in DC cyclists are allowed to ride on sidewalks. They are supposed to yield to pedestrians but they don't have to dismount. Same in Virginia and Maryland - some localities might have similar no-bike areas to DC's, but in general cyclists are allowed to ride on sidewalks. However the safety of riding on sidewalks is debatable.

As for the OP, I'm finding more and more that riding on multi-use trails is more dangerous and frustrating than riding on the road. Between the people who are just plain not paying attention and the ones who are downright cranky and mean, it can be pretty stressful. I wish I knew the solution.

[JaneE]

I've had just about exactly the same experience on one of our local, well-used MUPs. This despite signs all over the place *reminding* people that it is a MUP and to keep right at all times, control your dog, etc. I don't understand what's so difficult to comprehend about "keep right; pass left only." :confused:

More often than not, too, when I've approached walkers or in-line skaters and announce (in as nice a non-startling tone as possible) "on your left" the people actually move to their left...right in front of me.

People can be funny (but not ha-ha funny ;) ).

[dachshund]

Well I'm glad everyone was OK. Sheesh.

In my last "muffy" experience, a woman had four dogs on retractable leashes. I just stopped and waited. By the look on her face, she could have been juggling cats. What a sight. What a way to not control any of your pets.

A prior "muffy" was someone with a bunch of little dogs on leashes. I slowly crawled by and noticed that one of the dogs was running free. This little guy wouldn't get out of my line, and meanwhile one of the leashed dogs started growling and bearing its teeth. I thought, please let me out of this before Killer starts chewing my ankles.

(Apologies to anyone with pets named Muffy.)

[gnat23]

...I've approached walkers or in-line skaters and announce (in as nice a non-startling tone as possible) "on your left" the people actually move to their left...right in front of me.

I changed my phrase to "CYCLIST on your left" and that seems to help a bit.

I've been really annoyed with dog owners on the path who just let the little buggers run around without ANY control. I've yelled at some "Training or a leash, I don't care which, but USE ONE."

-- gnat! (There is the one guy whose dog is so well trained that he can tell it to sit from hundreds of yards away, and the pooch goes off the path and plops his butt down perfectly until I've gone by... this guy and dog gets my respect)

[7rider]

...so based on his logic, I suppose that there's no jogging allowed either?



I agree. That guy's comment was one of the stupider (is that a word???) things I've read (other than perhaps "stupider"). Besides...he wasn't walking. He was standing....and creating an obstacle with his dog, who also isn't walking.

[7rider]

This is not true where I live. There is a specific area in downtown DC where bicycles are not allowed on sidewalks. Elsewhere in DC cyclists are allowed to ride on sidewalks. They are supposed to yield to pedestrians but they don't have to dismount. Same in Virginia and Maryland - some localities might have similar no-bike areas to DC's, but in general cyclists are allowed to ride on sidewalks. However the safety of riding on sidewalks is debatable.

As for the OP, I'm finding more and more that riding on multi-use trails is more dangerous and frustrating than riding on the road. Between the people who are just plain not paying attention and the ones who are downright cranky and mean, it can be pretty stressful. I wish I knew the solution.

+ 1 from a Marylander....

[beccaB]

I'm probably preaching to the Choir here, but ever since I saw a dog come after me and get hit by a car, I tell people who are in their yard when their dog chases me, how dangerous it is and what happened to me. I'm actually amazed that I've only seen it happen once, as much as people don't control their dogs.

[Thorn]

Gee, how spoiled am I? The MUP I use a lot has a mix of fast and slow cyclists, runners, joggers, walkers, skaters and dogs. All of the dog owners are amazing. Some have very obedient dogs that are right next to them on the grass, others pull their dogs over and practice "sit" and, like gnat's, one or two have the right tone of whistle. One whistle and plop that doggie sits--very cool to watch.

Of course, this trail also has well-behaved bikes, too. Rarely do you get a pair that won't single file when passed or when there is oncoming traffic. Parents actually teach their kids to ride to the right.

I won't, however, get started on ipods with the volume cranked.....

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

What ever happened to training a dog to walk at heel on a fixed length leash? I swear it's a rare sight when you see a human taking a properly trained dog ( slack leash, heel) for a walk.

Trying to remember the last time I saw a child in a restaurant that wasn't running all over the place too. :cool:

[sfa]

Trying to remember the last time I saw a child in a restaurant that wasn't running all over the place too. :cool:

They're there. You just don't notice them because they're sitting and behaving themselves. As with most things, it's the loud and ill-behaved that get the most attention. Same as drivers who think they never see cyclists to follow the rules of the road--it's only that they notice the ones who don't.

Sarah

[shootingstar]

-- gnat! (There is the one guy whose dog is so well trained that he can tell it to sit from hundreds of yards away, and the pooch goes off the path and plops his butt down perfectly until I've gone by... this guy and dog gets my respect)

To match your example of a positively well-trained dog, I was cycling to get onto a multi-use path from road. At the corner, a walking dog-owner yelled at her dog (on leash): "BIKE".

And the dog stopped and moved over aside to let me through. :D

Something so rare as that, deserves a videotaping for the record!

[shootingstar]

Where I live I can't totally ignore multi-use paths sine it sometimes involves going on one for less than 1 kms. to switch onto a road route.

We live in a high rise building amongst a forest of more high rise buildings with some pleasant green space areas with ...several paths for pedestrians and walkers.

And in this highrise density area (not that horrible, believe me. Touted as an example within international urban planner designers as an example of livable, walkable and bikeable neighbourhood) ...there are ALOT of dog owners/walkers. Must be dog cabin fever that brings them and owners out too.

Visiting cyclists to our area would be amazed by the number of dogs prancing through our area.

HMMM...one day a dog count on the path might be worthwhile.. :p

Quite scary to me as a cyclist are inexperienced roller-bladers. ANy area with alot of tourists renting roller-bladers and bikes can add to the chaos on MUPs.

Certainly the MUPS in Stanley Park and Coal Harbour Area, are scary during day because there are alot of tourists/inexperienced roller-bladers wobbling along.

I do use the entire length of MUPs in our area....very early in the morning. Or during colder seasons. Very pleasant when no one is around and rolling by the waterfront on bike.

Right now there is a MUP that runs through the Olympic athletes village that's being built for 2010. It's fine now but one wonders after construction what will happen.

[OakLeaf]

to follow up...

I've read that anything over a 15% differential in highway speed is dangerous. I've always assumed that's why the de facto speed limit is 63 when it's marked 55, 75 in a marked 65, etc.

MUPs expect people to interact safely with a speed differential of 1000% or more. That's crazy. Even on country roads, cars are rarely going more than 4-5 times the speed of bicyclists.


And... my dogs are gone now, but we used retractable leashes without incident. The key is paying attention. If you reel your dog in long before another person approaches, or ahead of a blind curve, then there's not a problem. Unfortunately, it seems that paying attention is a lost art :(

[ilima]

Those retractable leashes are a menace. Maybe you could speak to someone in your town and ask that they be banned from the trail. Their invisibleness and the fact that the dog can get many feet from its owner is a big problem.

[uforgot]

Too bad someone doesn't invent a James Bond-like retractable leash cutter for bikes that can razor-cut a leash as we ride through it.

And they would be so busy trying to recover their dog that they would have no time to rant at you! A clean getaway.

[teigyr]

Last week I did a training ride then immediately went for a run. While I was on my ride, I noticed a woman with a dog NOT on a leash. The woman was talking on a cell phone and the dog was running free. When I went out for my run, I was on the street (my ride was on a MUT by the house) and the woman was walking toward me NOT on the phone carrying an empty leash. She asked if I had seen a dog.

I almost had to laugh at her but I feel bad for the dog.

Maybe the people around our MUT are more irresponsible than most but if they do bag up dog poop, they leave the baggies on or beside the trail! (Some of them, not all.) The trail used to be gravel and was paved about 5 years ago or so. The neighbors along the trail, especially since it got paved, have taken to putting up "pick up after your dog, it's the law" signs because I guess it gets pretty nasty.

I don't get it. It's just more cases of people thinking that their actions are what's important (and they disregard cyclists and neighbors) and don't really think beyond their own little scope of existence.

Oh and regarding the good dogs (whether not on leash or on retractable leash) how do we know? It's ok when I run but when I'm on my bike I have to act as if any uncontrolled dog could dart in front of me. I love dogs, I just don't love falling.

[colby]

I actually selected a retractable leash for my dog that was fat, like a full leash (NOT invisible), and I usually use it either REALLY short (right next to my body) or about 3 feet locked. The only time my dog gets out farther than that is if we're walking, she stops, and I keep walking while she pees (this is a frequent occurrence, apparently it is her job to mark every X feet), at which point she might get to about 6 feet.

A well exercised and well mannered dog won't wander regardless of leash, but it's usually not the dog's problem, it's the owner's. Don't train your dog? Don't walk them regularly? Don't give a crap? They aren't the ones that suffer. I've heard tales from the trail where people have been attacked by dogs at the end of the retractable leash while their owners don't pay attention (or worse, dogs off-leash). The only time we run off-leash is in winter when nobody else is using the trail, and only on segments of the trail where that's true. Once I invest in one of those leashes you can wear around your waist or whatever, that'll come to an end entirely.

[GLC1968]

I hate irresponsible dog owners as much as I hate irresponsible bikers. It's the same thing. People have issues with retractable leashes because many people don't use them correctly. People have issues with cyclists because there are those out there who don't use them correctly (following the rules).


I'm glad no one got hurt! I know exactly what you mean about not being able to get the right words out when it matters. I do the same thing and it's so frustrating!!

[Mr. Bloom]

Mr. Silver, sorry, but under the law, bicycles are considered vehicles, NOT pedestrians. We have to follow the same rules that cars do, and give right of way to pedestrians.

While bikes are very common on sidewalks in this college town (much to my irritation), I asked the question and I have to accept the answer...the sign says "Pedestrians Only - No Vehicles" ...and I do consider a bike a vehicle...:)so, I'll adjust my route accordingly (and gain 2 miles on each ride;))


As to retractable leashes, I can admit that their use has saved me a couple of times from a renegade dog coming after me as I passed by on my bike.

[OakLeaf]

Oh and regarding the good dogs (whether not on leash or on retractable leash) how do we know?

With a dog on a retractable leash, you know the same way that you know with a dog on a non-retractable leash. That is, you trust the owner to not drop the freakin' leash. Or you don't trust them, but there's no difference there whether the leash is retractable, or a 4 foot non-retractable, or a 12 foot non-retractable.

[Andrea]

I haven't read the other posts, but next time you see him, tell him you aren't gonna stop riding on the MUT, and that you'll still be riding on the MUT when he's dead.


:D

[Eden]

While bikes are very common on sidewalks in this college town (much to my irritation), I asked the question and I have to accept the answer...the sign says "Pedestrians Only - No Vehicles" ...and I do consider a bike a vehicle...:)so, I'll adjust my route accordingly (and gain 2 miles on each ride;))


As to retractable leashes, I can admit that their use has saved me a couple of times from a renegade dog coming after me as I passed by on my bike.

Check your local rules. Different places - different laws. In Washington state bicycles are vehicles with all the same rights and responsibilities of any other road users when on the road *but* it is also legal to ride on the sidewalk unless it is specifically signed that you may not. Not only that - when you are on the sidewalk you are legally a pedestrian.... (so cars at crosswalks have to treat you like any other sidewalk user)

I'm not going to claim that this is the best idea.... it does lead to conflicts and a lot of motorists know so little about the laws in the first place that it only confuses them *more* (and frustrates them - many think it is illegal) that bicycles can act both as vehicles and pedestrians. Nonetheless it is the law around here until and unless someone acts to change it.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

As long as you have narrow paths being shared by joggers, bikers, rollerbladers, children, babystrollers, and dog walkers....you will always have plenty of 'unfortunate incidents'.
We don't have multi-use or bike paths where I live, but after riding on them during a couple of vacation experiences, I must say I really prefer just riding the roads with the cars. :cool:

[blueskies]

I guess sharing the MUPs is just like sharing the road-- lots of food for thought & discussion.

I wanted to add that I've ridden this path a couple times per week over the last couple years, and only had one other negative experience in all that time. Mostly, I enjoy this path a lot. It's lovely & it's a busy park. That's part of the charm for me, and I ride there specifically when my intention is to do a slow, easy recovery spin. All the people & dogs actually make it easier for me to glo slow, which is my goal.

I've had so many small moments there that put a smile on my face...

Last year, I came upon a group of young boys that had stopped in the middle of the path. I stopped to give them a moment to move, and they asked me if I happened to have binoculars with me. I didn't. They pointed to a big tree in the distance & told me that they thought there was a spy in that tree. They went on to say that once I passed a certain point, I'd be entering the ghetto, and did I have a weapon. I admitted that I did not have a weapon & they started an earnest conversation amongst themselves about whether or not I could proceed, deciding eventually that because I was a grown-up it was probably all right. It was comic.

The other day, I passed (very slowly) a small girl on a bike with training wheels. She grinned & pointed at me & said "Look, mom, a racer girl!" I'm 49.

Another time, I saw a couple people looking up at a tree, very intently. I slowed & looked but didn't see anything. The next week, I saw another group, looking at this same tree again. I stopped and asked what they were looking at, and it was a baby owl, who nested in that tree all last summer.

I love the mix of people there-- mom's with jogging strollers, the local cross country team, kids on bikes, families at the playgrounds, elderly people who are just shuffling along... It just puts a smile on my face when I ride.

I like the green space & the birds & the ducks & nearly all of the dogs.

I've learned to expect people to behave unpredictably, when I come up behind them. I do call out. And 99.99% of the time, it all goes well. Maybe that's why I felt so bad getting yelled at in such a pleasant place, it was just so unexpected.

[blueskies]

Here are a couple pictures from the path that I ride. Worth the occasional cranky old man, I think. :)

6888

6889

[sb-gal]

We have a "great" MUP path near the beach in Santa Barbara. I used to go there with my son to ride bikes but I would get so nervous he would hit someone that we stopped.

Technically it's the bike/skate/skateboard path and then the sidewalk runs parallel to it. Well what we end up with is people on rented bikes, rented bicycle carriage things that hold 4-8 people, tourists on skates, local skateboard rats going to the skatepark, joggers, dog's, every manner of pedestrian you can imagine walking 6-8 abreast, covering both lanes. It's an accident waiting to happen. Personally I think the pedestrians should stay on the sidewalk (which is always less crowded) and allow the cyclist to use the bike lane.

[BethG]

I know exactly what you mean about not being able to get the right words out when it matters. I do the same thing and it's so frustrating!!

FWIW, it doesn't sound like anything she said would have mattered - because it doesn't sound like grumpasaurus was interested in being reasonable. blueskies could have quoted her favorite soup recipe for all the difference it would have made to this guy :rolleyes:

Happy to her neither you, nor the dog was hurt :)

(aside: as a dog owner, my personal suspicion is that retractable leashes were invented by the Devil. They're too easy to drop, prone to giving people around you rope burns, and give people a false sense of security about how well they're controlling their dogs - if you can't trust your dog to behave 10 feet way from you if it's off leash, you can't count on it being safe and under control when it's 10 feet away from you on a retractable. /rant /soapbox)