Saddle Fit: Tests, Tips, and Tricks

[KnottedYet]

I thought it might be handy to start a thread of the various saddle fit stuff we know; gather it all together in one easy-to-find spot. :D


The Cut-Out Test

Sit on the forward half of a wooden chair while wearing only undies. Keep your back straight, hinge at your hips and fold forward until you can rest your elbows on your knees. (you are making a triangle of your thighs, upper arms, and straight torso)

If your girly-bits feel smooshed into the chair and uncomfortable, you might need a cut out. If the wooden chair is dramatically more comfortable than your saddle, you might need a wider-at-the-cantle saddle or a less padded saddle.

[KnottedYet]

Too Much Pear-Shape Chafing Pattern

Chafing in the inner neighborhood of the lower fold of the buttock, top-of-the-leg, panty line, hamstring attachment (however you want to describe it) seems to rear its ugly head on saddles that are too pear-shaped for the motion of your hip joints.

[pardes]

Bless You! I hit the wall yesterday and now have a very sore girls bits. It was very hot and I did about 12 miles (previously only about 8-10 a day) and there was lots of on and off for stopping to run errands. At my average 6 mph speed, that's almost two hours in the saddle.

By the end of the day I didn't just want a cutout saddle, I wanted one of those donuts to sit on.

So, my 62 year old body is searching for solutions. I'm using this saddle now (http://www.performancebike.com/shop/Profile.cfm?SKU=14746&item=50-1448&slitrk=search&slisearch=true).

Update: Ignore the two saddles I've listed below. Emily in nc has shown me the error of my ways and I continue the search beginning with her wonderful suggestions.

I'm contemplating the Adamo Typhoon (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B001E0MNIM/ref=ord_cart_shr?%5Fencoding=UTF8&m=A7N21HDYBN798&v=glance) as well as the Selle Respiro (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000RSODDU/ref=ord_cart_shr?%5Fencoding=UTF8&m=A3SNLLVFZ6ABAC&v=glance). That's as far as I've gotten in the search of saddle info here and on the net.

I know I DEFINITELY need a cutout, a very narror horn (or minimalist horn), something wider than a racing saddle, AND gel padding. And naturally I want it to be as lightweight as possible. I'll definitely spend the extra bucks for this combination.

I'll continue to watch TE threads and hope to find something to be able to make it to a 20-30 ride.

Okay ladies, let's cure world hunger AND finally, finally, design fully functional women's bicycle saddles that fit us in our various needs.

[emily_in_nc]

I know I DEFINITELY need a cutout, a very narror horn (or minimalist horn), something wider than a racing saddle, AND gel padding. And naturally I want it to be as lightweight as possible. I'll definitely spend the extra bucks for this combination.

Hi pardes,

From a quick look at the two saddles you mention considering, I'd rule both of them out immediately based on your criteria. The Adamo is quite odd and has what looks like a very wide nose and narrow rear. It looks incredibly uncomfortable to me! Seems like the wide nose would chafe your inner thighs and the rear may not be nearly wide enough to support your sitbones properly. The Selle Respiro is the heaviest, widest saddle I've ever seen. 495 grams is VERY heavy. I don't think you'll be happy with it.

How about a tried-and-true Terry Butterfly? Or a Selle San Marco Lady Gel Flow? These are very similarly shaped and sized saddles, and to my rump, are very, very comfy. They certainly don't work for everyone, but when I was in a bike club, the Terry Butterfly was by far the most popular/loved women's saddle. I'd think you'd have a much better chance of success with either of these -- they're plenty wide for most gals at 160mm, have a narrow-enough nose, a cutout, are cushy enough but not so cushy you sink in, and they're lightweight.

Good luck in your search!

Emily

[KnottedYet]

Sitbone Width and Saddle Width

Don't go for a saddle narrower than your bones, you'll be resting on soft tissue and pelvic floor muscles rather than on the bones. (exceptions for tri saddles and extreme aero saddles, of course, where you are more on the pubic rami than the ischial tuberosities)

General rule of thumb: get a saddle with 1-2 cm wiggle room to either side of the sitbones. As you shift positions, climb and descend, turn, etc., you will be moving your pelvis relative to the saddle. Also, if your bones are the exact width of the saddle, you will be perched on the frame of the saddle rather than on the nicely engineered "sit spots" of the saddle.

[pardes]

[QUOTE=KnottedYet;353256]Sitbone Width and Saddle Width
Don't go for a saddle narrower than your bones, you'll be resting on soft tissue and pelvic floor muscles rather than on the bones. (exceptions for tri saddles and extreme aero saddles, of course, where you are more on the pubic rami than the ischial tuberosities)QUOTE]

Wasn't Ischial Tuberosities the point of view character in Moby ****?

Thank God for the bike pros around here. emily in nc saved me from buying a tractor seat.

[VeloVT]

Too Much Pear-Shape Chafing Pattern

Chafing in the neighborhood of the lower fold of the buttock, top-of-the-leg, panty line, hamstring attachment (however you want to describe it) seems to rear its ugly head on saddles that are too pear-shaped for the motion of your hip joints.

I think this is a great thread... but I'm confused, because ***I*** get lower-fold=of-buttock/top-of-leg/panty-line discomfort from saddles that are too T-shaped, not saddles that are too pear-shaped. ?????

[KnottedYet]

I think this is a great thread... but I'm confused, because ***I*** get lower-fold=of-buttock/top-of-leg/panty-line discomfort from saddles that are too T-shaped, not saddles that are too pear-shaped. ?????

Cool! You're the first I've heard from who has that happen! I was wondering if this was only a pear phenomenon, cuz what I'd been hearing about too T-shaped was how the back of the thigh feels like it slams into the saddle. Can you write up a description of all the signs and symptoms from riding something too T-shaped?

(I only know pear-shape problems cuz that's how I suffer, and it seems to be the more common complaint; so we really need to hear how someone can tell if their saddle is too T-shaped. Please, please, pretty please??)

[mimitabby]

Okay, here goes. If your saddle is not in the right place you will also get chafing and burning. case in point, I put my saddle on someone else's tandem and did a 10 mile ride. I was in agony. I moved the saddle back just 1" and it fit me nicely again. In my case, we're talking about a very T-shaped Brooks B67 saddle.

[Miranda]

Body weight, or overall size, is not necessarily a direct correlation to saddle size. Meaning, a very skinny gal can still have wide sitz bones, and a fuller curvy gal can still have narrower ones. I've encountered this misconception many times with lbs sales staff trying to buy a saddle. Thankfully for TE, I knew otherwise!

[KnottedYet]

Saddle-y Websites

Wallingford Bicycle Parts. 6 months return period on Brooks saddles. www.wallbike.com

Sheldon Brown (RIP) talks about saddles. http://sheldonbrown.com/saddles.html

Bike Cult saddle museum: http://www.bikecult.com/works/saddle.html

Bontrager's saddle research page. http://bontrager.com/technology/the_study_and_science_of_inform/en

Topeak's saddle line (Allay) home page, with links to the Allay saddles and research and info pages: http://www.allaysaddles.com/

Scholar Google engine for searching the medical literature for an in-depth look at specific issues: http://scholar.google.com

[emily_in_nc]

Bontrager's saddle research page. http://bontrager.com/technology/the_study_and_science_of_inform/en


Hmmm...almost a contradiction in terms. :D

[KnottedYet]

Well, we all know my opinion of Trek/Bontrager's latest "offering" in saddles from what I saw at a seminar in San Francisco earlier this year, and my further opinion after tracking down their research.... but I'm trying to be impartial. ;)

[Andrea]

My addition:

Don't be afraid to try saddles that aren't labeled as women's saddles. Look at size, cutout/no cutout, and shape.

I've been riding for a little more than 2 years, and I've been through at least 15 saddles. There's nothing wrong with any of the saddles I tried except that my underside didn't agree with them.

[Trek420]

One woman's perfect saddle is another gals implement of torture. When you find the perfect saddle buy 10 of 'em (sure as I'm posting the mfr. will decide all it needs is more fluffy padding). Saddles you love to hate? Sell 'em on TE. There's someone here who loves that saddle.

[TxDoc]

My addition:
Don't be afraid to try saddles that aren't labeled as women's saddles. Look at size, cutout/no cutout, and shape.

+1
In 30 years I have never been able to ride comfortably on any saddle that was labelled as women-specific... I've always found some men saddles that were perfectly comfortable, but never a women one.

[TrekTheKaty]

I've learned from TE that my Bontrager saddle needed to come off my new trek right away! I rode it once (got a little chafed), then tried my husband's B17. I determined I wanted the B68 and ordered it. While I waited, I put the stock Bontrager back on. MORE DISCOMFORT. When I got home, I looked at it closer--there is a bump in the most comfortable spot--a woman's most sensitive spot--CHECK IT OUT. I'm now convinced it's a medieval torture device.

[Ana]

+1
In 30 years I have never been able to ride comfortably on any saddle that was labelled as women-specific... I've always found some men saddles that were perfectly comfortable, but never a women one.

Do you have a narrow sit bone width (just curious)? When I went into my less-than-beloved LBS, they measured me for a 130 mm Specialized saddle (the narrowest width for women. I sat on that silly oozy contraption. Does that mean they are figuring for the 1-2cm on each side of your sit bones?

What men's saddles have worked best for you? :)

[TxDoc]

Do you have a narrow sit bone width (just curious)?
Yes :)


What men's saddles have worked best for you? :)
Let's see, my all-time favorites are:
1-SSM Era arrowhead (124mm), LOVE LOVE LOVE that one!!! :D the Era is my 'travel seat', I take it with me to use with rental/borrowed bikes when I have to travel - just to make sure that my ride is going to be comfortable!
2-SI SLR gel flow (130mm), love that one too!!!
3-I just got a SSM aspide carbon superleggera a few days ago (there's a thread here in the favorite saddles with my comments about it), 130mm too, and it's really fantastic (and 120 grams!!!).
Another saddle I liked (I got to borrow it for a couple of months from a friend) is the AX lightness phoenix (125mm). The weight is like 60 grams or less, great saddle, but it was like $600 so totally out of my saddle budget! ;)

[TxDoc]

Ooooops! I forgot one of the questions...

I sat on that silly oozy contraption. Does that mean they are figuring for the 1-2cm on each side of your sit bones?
In theory when they measure you they should give you one value and one range:
1-your sitbone width.
2-the range of saddle width that you may find comfortable given your sitbone width (a little wider, yes).
:)

[VeloVT]

My sb's measure about 125mm. Love my 132mm Ariones. Found Fizik's "women's performance" saddle, the Vitesse HP, a bit wide, and likewise found BF's old 143mm Specialized Alias too wide in back.

My anatomy does not get on well with cutouts at all. I'm much more comfortable without one...

BF is currently riding a Selle Italia Flite Gelflow (about 130mm). It's ok, I think I'd do better on the SLR if I were going to choose a Selle Italia saddle.

[KnottedYet]

Start with a Brooks by leveling the NOSE, not the entire saddle.

The cantle (the bit at the back) will rise slightly higher than the forepart of the saddle.

Don't forget there is a cantle plate under the rear of the saddle. When you sit on the leather, it hammocks under your butt. You end up sinking a bit lower at the slightly higher rear of the saddle, essentially bringing the hammocking bit down to about the same approximate height as the nose, BUT ONLY WHILE YOU ARE ON IT.

If you level the saddle from tip-to-tail instead of at the nose only, you may end up with some pain in front.

[KnottedYet]

First check all the obvious suspects: loose clamp, squeaking springs (if you've got 'em), creaking frame joints under the cantle.

Then check the not-so-obvious nose end. All that hardware at the tensioning bolt can creak. And the real odd bit to check is the half-ball and socket joint (yes, there is one) at the very front of the saddle. The easiest way I've found to oil that joint is to squirt oil on it from the back half. That is the cause of probably 99.999% of the creaking of my B67.

Nose creaks can propagate through the frame and sound like they are absolutely positively no-doubt-about-it coming from the back of the frame. Don't forget to check the nose!

[bismarckgimpy]

I may need to run to my LBS to get that gel. I have a Terry Butterfly that starts to get uncomfortable after 1 1/2 hours of riding. I assume it will be around 7". I wear a size 12 when I'm in good shape. Right now, I wear a size 14. So I have those good birthing hips. KnottedYet, I'm checking into the Brooks saddles that you list. Those are wider and may work for me.

[KnottedYet]

Pants size and hip width have very little to do with pelvic outlet diameter, it's seems weird but it's true.

There is a thread somewhere with a gajillion different ways to measure your own bones, you don't need to go to an LBS and sit on their butt-o-meter. You can do it yourself with just a tape measure.

Terry saddles are generally on the wide side. Your saddle may be wide enough, but the shape or the padding may be causing you problems.

Before you buy any saddle it's a good idea to get your measurements (try a few ways of measuring) and puzzle out what about your current saddle is causing you the trouble.

Start a thread with your measurements, your current saddle, and the problems you are having; and I *guarantee* you will have several folks chirp up with suggestions to help! :D

[bismarckgimpy]

Thanks, I'll do that. In looking at saddles, the wider ones always seemed so soft. I tried one of those and after a half hour (can't remember the brand, I sold it), the softness was getting to me. So I figured all the wide saddles were meant for people who wanted soft, gushy rides. I like a saddle that is a bit firmer. So I figured the medium-wide saddles were best. The Terry feels better than the squishy one. But after a 1 1/2 hours it is not comfortable.

The Brooks saddles interest me. The B-67 is a wider saddle, but a firm one. I'll get those sitbones measured. I'll send the kids outside so they don't think mom is whacked out.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Just because a saddle is wide doesn't mean it has to be soft and foamy/gel/cushy. Brooks B68=perfect example of a WIDE saddle that is VERY firm with NO padding.

[channlluv]

...

I'm contemplating the Adamo Typhoon (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B001E0MNIM/ref=ord_cart_shr?%5Fencoding=UTF8&m=A7N21HDYBN798&v=glance) as well as the Selle Respiro (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000RSODDU/ref=ord_cart_shr?%5Fencoding=UTF8&m=A3SNLLVFZ6ABAC&v=glance). That's as far as I've gotten in the search of saddle info here and on the net.

...


See, I love my Adamo Typhoon. I rarely have soft tissue soreness, and then it's because of the padding of a pair of my shorts, I'm pretty sure. It suits me perfectly, but it doesn't work with the geometry of my bike, a Specialized Ruby Comp, and I get really numb hands after just a few miles. I did 20 miles on Sunday and I could barely operate the brake when I was headed back to my car.

I need a different configuration, I think. The Adamo is moved as far up as it will go, so I can't move it any more to take pressure off my hands (and DH warned that I would get soft tissue soreness because of the move putting more pressure on my girly parts than they get now).

The Terry Butterfly, this is a good one?

Roxy

[Biciclista]

re: Terry Butterfly
I bought one, used it only once. Sold it right here on TE.

the answer: not good for ME.

[OakLeaf]

Rox, you might not want to give up on the Adamo on your road bike yet. I've found that any new saddle really changes the way I sit on the bike, and thus the fit - even going from a Spec Lithia to the very similar but firmer Jett required a couple of tweaks. So if you really love your Adamo, you might consider springing for a bike fit with that saddle.

Current Terry saddles don't work for me either - they're quite wedge (pear) shaped. They're quality saddles and a lot of people love them, but it all depends on whether it fits.

[azfiddle]

I just got a new bike with a Specialized Lithia Saddle. My old bike had a Specialized Jett, which I used I used for over a year and a half without problems

After two rides (55 miles total), I feel like I'm getting more pressure in soft tissue toward the front, and some irritation along the panty line- both a big change.

I had a complete fit before taking the new bike out of the shop, but did not ask to have my old saddle put on the bike.


Any opinions on whether it is more likely the new saddle or more due to position of the saddle and/or different bike geometry and my position on the bike?

[OakLeaf]

My opinion - both.

The Lithia is squishy and more likely to cause soft tissue chafing and pinching.

When I switched from a Lithia to a Jett, it really changed the way I sit on the bike, and I had to tweak the stem, handlebar tilt, and lever placement, and IIRC the fore/aft placement of the saddle, too. So if you were fit on the Jett, you might have to re-do the fit to be happy with the Lithia.

You wouldn't think it from how similar the saddles look, but that was my experience.

[ultraviolet]

The Lithia was the first Specialized saddle I tried. The squishiness made for considerable soft tissue pressure for me. I switched to the Avatar (a little less squishy than the Lithia) and those problems went away. I ended up with a Ruby on my road bike (not at all squishy) because it has a lower profile*, and I love it.

* (Because of the way the seatpost and seat tube are shaped/work on my bike, I needed those extra millimeters to perfect the fit. It was cheaper to switch saddles than try to get my hands on a new seatpost.)

[zoom-zoom]

Well, we all know my opinion of Trek/Bontrager's latest "offering" in saddles from what I saw at a seminar in San Francisco earlier this year, and my further opinion after tracking down their research.... but I'm trying to be impartial. ;)

Knot, can you expand upon this, a bit? Reason I ask is that I am finding my beloved Jett is giving me fits on my new bike. I LOVED it on my relatively upright Synapse, but on my SuperSix I'm getting pinched, up front. At least I think it's my saddle. It could also be due to the tights I'm wearing over my shorts (I'm just dying for warmer weather so that I can switch to knee warmers...this is the neverending Winter here in MI). But I am suspicious that it's because I'm relatively more aero on the new bike (in addition to more aggressive geometry I now have a 2cm longer stem, which I should have had on the previous bike, too...yay, I can ride in the drops, now!).

Last night I had DH tilt the nose of my Jett down a hair, but it didn't do much to alleviate the discomforts in my girly parts, since it made me start sliding forward too much--if anything it gave me more issues, since I was struggling to keep my sit bones on the rear of the saddle and was bearing more weight on my privates, instead..

I've been eyeballing that Bontrager Inform RL saddle, since I think that dip would work better for me than a sharp cut-out. I'm also looking at the Fizik Arione Donna. The footprint looks similar to my Jett and that long channel looks like it might not pinch and jam my labial bits quite so much.
http://www.leisurelakesbikes.com/images/ProductImages/fullsize/Components/Fizik/Fizik%20Arione%20Donna%20Womens%20Saddle.jpg

But I can't find anyone who has tried this saddle...so I am leery. Our LBS carries Fizik and has test saddles...but I'm not sure if they can get test saddles in the women's models, or not. I have only seen them in the men's styles. I can't find any evidence that Fizik offers any sort of guarantee, unlike Specialized and Bontrager.

[zoom-zoom]

Bumping for Knot's input... :D

[Biciclista]

bump! (that saddle does NOT look comfortable)

[zoom-zoom]

bump! (that saddle does NOT look comfortable)

In what way...I'm having a hard time finding any reviews of it (I think it's only been out for a couple of months). I'm thinking it looks like it might be really hard on the sit bones, if anything.

[Biciclista]

well, it seems to have your sit bones on the edge, and then the saddle itself is more pear shaped then T shaped.

[zoom-zoom]

I thought it looked really pear-shaped, too, but I played around overlaying it in Photoshop with a photo of a Jett 143 and the shape doesn't seem as different as I had thought. It's a mere 4mm wider at 147mm, so it's pretty close in size (I don't think my sit-bones would end up on the edge--my sit bones are somewhere in the 125 neighborhood when I use a tape measure). And apparently those flex wings are designed to crack and break-in to fit an individual rider's leg movement requirements...so maybe it wouldn't feel as pear-shaped as it might at first appear.
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/1239682381_CnqVP-O.jpg

[zoom-zoom]

That picture is great!

Thanks...sometimes I get my dork on in a big way. :o:p

[KnottedYet]

Knot, can you expand upon this, a bit?

That was written a bazillion years ago in Corporate Years.

Since then Trek scrapped their sadly misguided women's saddle design and re-did the research. Now I'm quite pleased with their saddles. (I'd like to think someone found all my grousing and complaining and realized the error of their ways and any day now will head-hunt me from my current job and make me their new Saddle Goddess... but that may just be the hard cider talkin' )

If one of theirs appeals to you, go for it!

And then post a review for all of us, ok? :D

ETA: by "pleased" I mean that looking at the things they make a whole lot more sense than the original design. They still don't make one anywhere near the width I need, so I haven't tried one myself.

[zoom-zoom]

The only thing that gives me pause looking at the Bontrager saddles is that the RL Inform WSD looks a bit on the pear-shaped side. I'm concerned that I would make my girl parts happy, only to make my inner butt-cheek region angry. Trade-offs are the bane of a cyclists existence, so it would seem.

[ny biker]

If it helps, last summer Bontrager started selling the Inform Affinity, which is more t-shaped than the original Inform. In fact earlier today I put a 155mm Affinity on top of a SSM Aspide Glamour and found they are almost identical in size and shape.

The Affinity comes in different varieties regarding the amount of padding -- RXL, RL and R. And the 3 different widths.

[zoom-zoom]

Hmmm...that Affinity is something else to add to consideration. Though their description of the Affinity models sounds like they are geared for more upright riding. Not sure if that would change how I fit on it, or not. It's the less upright stance that has gotten me into trouble with my Jett.

[Artista]

I had an opportunity to compare the Bontrager Affinity RXL to the Inform RL last weekend. The channel in the Inform is longer & deeper than the Affinity. The Inform provided great sit bone support & gave my girly bits a lot of room. The Affinity also provides great sit bone support but squishes my bits more than the Inform. I'll post more about my experience with the 2 saddles after I do an apples to apples ride comparison.

[ny biker]

My LBS would let me put both on my bike to do a quick sit test before buying. Maybe you could find one to do the same?

[Biciclista]

thanks for taking the time to post, Knott, your expertise is always appreciated.

[Lynda]

Hi all,

First post on this forum, though I have read many posts by others. I'd like to say there is some immensely useful info throughout, and some very insightful and helpful people! After reading many posts about various saddles I have purchased and am waiting to receive a Selle Italia Diva Gel Flow. With my 150mm sit bone width I reckon this should be a good fit.

In regards to tips on saddle fit though, thought I might add one (seemingly obvious, though not to me!) tip - no matter what saddle you choose, it will be incredibly uncomfortable if you have your saddle set too high. I have been riding mountainbikes and road for about four years, and over this time I have been through about ten different saddles (WTB Speed V, Specialized Ruby Gel, Fizik Pave, Fizik Aliante to name a few). I have also had recurrent pressure issues that have led to some nasty boils between my 'girly parts' and the top of my thigh, which have resulted in some long periods off the bike while they healed.

I have always put this down to just not having the right saddle for me, with the most recent choice being a Fizik Vitesse Tri (which has been the least uncomfortable). About a week ago, I had a good look at just how high I set my saddle on both my mtb and road bike, and realised that they were both way too high (by about an inch and a half). I have always insisted on having my saddle a few inches higher than my bars (mostly for aesthetics), but being 5'3" and riding XS frames means that is just not correct bike fit. I never felt like my hips were rocking, but I think this resulted in me (especially on my road bike) flattening out from the hips to reach my handlebars and consequently placing all my weight on my soft tissue, rather than using my tummy and curving my back, which keeps my sit bones centred on the seat.

After significantly reducing my saddle height on both bikes, I have been out for a few rides on the Vitesse (one 100km ride on the roadie) with ZERO problems. If anything my bum felt a little tender where my sit bones are for an hour or so but I put this down to actually being in the right place on the saddle for the first time! Issues with getting too hot have also gone away, which is a bonus. Making these changes has also stopped me from constantly scooting back on the saddle trying to get comfortable - the saddle now sits level, and in the middle of the rails. I am really looking forward to being able to ride when I like, without worrying about getting painful boils and dealing with constant discomfort. I also look forward to trying out the Diva, knowing it will be set up correctly (I have taken the measurement from centre of BB to middle of the top of the saddle and written it down so I will get it right!). Will also save me moving one saddle around on two bikes!

Long story I know, but maybe will help someone like me!

Lynda :)

[Biciclista]

goodness, Lynda, I am glad you figured it out.
Welcome to TE!

[louisianalouise]

I hope someone can suggest something... I can't afford to buy any more saddles without knowing they will work!

I am a competitive road cyclist. I ride 13-15hrs and 6 days a week.

I had a Specialized Dolce for 6 months and used the Spesh Ruby saddle which was great. Then I bought a Cannondale Supersix and got a whole lot more aggressive which led to me switching to a John Cobb V-Flow. The Ruby's T shape seemed to cut off the blood supply at the point between my butt and upper thigh. Miserable rides, legs went dead from lack of blood, adopted a teammates old Cobb saddle that had a cosmetic blemish and she didn't use anymore.

Cobb V-Flow worked great for a year, THEN, in March 2012, I adjusted my fit for an even more aggressive position - dropped my bars, went compact so now I am even lower. Well, my saddle is now hurting my soft tissue so much that last weekend at Collegiate Nationals, I finished the 60min crit with a cut and bleeding labia. That is not even funny considering how much pressure I had on those pedals.

Another teammate recommended the Fizik Arione Donna - it has some wing flex thing that allows your legs to move easily but I don't want to put another $150 down the toilet so to speak...

Any suggestions?! HEEEEELLLP. Had to take 3 days off the bike to let everything heal up.

[zoom-zoom]

OK, so I ride the same bike (though it's a men's/unisex frame) and I have the EXACT same issues...I found the Arione Donna to be one of the WORST saddles for the problem, unfortunately.

I am patiently waiting for the Ergon SM-3 saddle to become available. In the meantime the best saddle I have found is the Bontrager Affinity. If the Ergon doesn't work I can live with the Bontrager, but I keep feeling like my perfect saddle must still be out there.

[louisianalouise]

Thanks Kirsten. I also have the Men's Supersix. It came with some fancy man saddle that I got rid of on ebay and now wishing I had kept it just to try!

I looked at the Ergon saddle - that looks very T shaped - do you also have problems with blood flow to your legs? I have a similar saddle on my Mountain bike but I really don't ride it enough to develop issues :)

The Bontrager Affinity looks like an option, but the description says it is for a more upright position. I wish that the people writing about the products were actually women racers who had used them and could verify these sorts of things!:eek:

I might put the Ruby saddle back on my c'dale and see if I can bear it. In the meantime I'll look for a Bontrager stockist to demo the Affinity!

2011 Cannnondale Supersix Hi Mod 1/any saddle that works
2005 Specialized XC FSR/Ariel 143

[zoom-zoom]

Thanks Kirsten. I also have the Men's Supersix. It came with some fancy man saddle that I got rid of on ebay and now wishing I had kept it just to try!

I looked at the Ergon saddle - that looks very T shaped - do you also have problems with blood flow to your legs? I have a similar saddle on my Mountain bike but I really don't ride it enough to develop issues :)

The Bontrager Affinity looks like an option, but the description says it is for a more upright position. I wish that the people writing about the products were actually women racers who had used them and could verify these sorts of things!:eek:

Funny, my husband took the saddle that came on my SuperSix and says it's his favorite saddle ever.

I do need a really T-shaped saddle...not for numbness issues, but because my inner thighs get all beat-to-hell on a pear-shaped saddle and I end up forced onto the nose too much.

The Affinity does claim it's for more upright riding, but it feels OK on my road bike. The little dip up front could stand to be a hair deeper. It works really well on my CX bike, since I am not quite so aggressively positioned on that bike.

[ridebikeme]

lousianalouise,

Are there any shops in your area that have a demo fleet of saddles? That would be a great way to try several saddles until you find something that is comfortable.



http://chasecyclery.blogspot.com

[Eden]

I cannot help but wonder if it is not entirely a saddle problem - as it appears when you switched to the Supersix is when it all started. Do you perhaps have an underlying bike fit problem that is not going to be solved with a saddle alone? (reach too long? cranks too long?)

You also said you switched to a more aggressive position, which also started problems. I would suggest that you go back - getting a few mm's lower probably isn't going to make or break you as a racer - but not being able to sit on your saddle sure will.

[louisianalouise]

Ridebikeme:
Yes, I have a great relationship with my LBS but like many places in the deep south, they have very limited supplies of women's gear. They have all the demo saddles a man can handle but no women's ones, except some large squishy ones. I have tried a couple of the men's ones, but this is one of few accessories that I feel like women's specific is a better bet. I'll probably buy a few and sell the ones that don't work on ebay :-/

Eden:
Thanks. I have had multiple fits, my coach has me comfortable and I recently had some tweaking at a professional camp. We've filmed me, pictures, etc etc. The Cobb V Flow was fine for a year - we adjusted my fit and I rode today after 3 days off but I am still hurting and now in new places too.

Perhaps we need to start again, entirely from scratch. It's so bad I don't even want to race!

Thanks for your input!

However, I will see if we can

[Owlie]

It's not a southern thing. Most LBSes that I can think of with demo saddles have plenty of mens'--but not women's--saddles.

I need an extremely T-shaped saddle, because I get chafing on the back of my thigh otherwise. How's your core strength? I know you're racing, so probably better than some of us (me included!). I had my fit adjusted to be more aggressive (though not racing-aggressive) and my Jett did horrible things to me, even though I found it pretty comfortable previously. It's getting better as my core strength improves, though.

My next bike is probably going to be a more aggressive one. I worry that I'm not going to be able to get a saddle to work with that--the rest of me is comfortable, but not those in contact with the saddle.

[louisianalouise]

Owlie - to be honest, my core strength is my biggest weakness - so good call thinking of that.

I have been thinking and perhaps my saddle needs have also changed as my body has changed into a racing machine ;) I think perhaps my sit bones are sliding around the seat and that is causing soft tissue pressure. I also looked into some demo programs and even though it looks like competitive cyclist doesn't demo anymore - they have a 60 day no questions asked return policy, so I guess I could test and return, no questions asked!

In the meanwhile I had better get that strength ball out of the cupboard and get working!

[CindyK]

I had a Terry Butterfly on my old Cannondale, never had many issues except some usually tolerable chafing in the bits. When I got a new bike the saddle was AWFUL (Specialized Ruby) so I ditched it and bought a Terry Falcon X as I wanted something a little more performance - oriented (and to fix the chafing). It has a bigger cut-out than the butterfly which completely solved the chafing issue but now I've developed these hard lumps in the crease between my thighs and labia. They are hard and don't seem to be fluid filled or infected in any way (not warm or red - in fact they aren't even visible I can just feel them. Oh and no broken skin). I went back to the butterfly for a 45 mile ride this morning and it seemed to be easier on the wierd lumps but it still chafes.

The Falcon is more pear shaped and MUCH more flexible than the Butterfly.

I took another look at the Ruby and I might give it a second try now that I've had the bike fit (of course, changing saddles will change that somewhat) and I'm going back to my bike fitter guy hopefully this week in any case but in the meantime does anyone have any thoughts? I don't mind buying another saddle but I'd like to make this the last one for a while...

[Owlie]

Those might be ingrown hairs, caused by irritation from the saddle--I get those too, even with the Jett, which is the best saddle that I've tried so far. (No broken skin, just feels bruised and irritated.) They weren't as bad with the Selle Italia I tried, but it's hard to gauge because half the time I was sitting on the nose because of how pear-shaped that saddle was, and because my rides on that were shorter.

What didn't you like about the Ruby? Specialized's offerings are among the most t-shaped out there, at least for commonly available saddles.

[CindyK]

What didn't you like about the Ruby? Specialized's offerings are among the most t-shaped out there, at least for commonly available saddles.

The Ruby just didn't seem to have enough padding, esp considering I'd been riding a Terry saddle for 8 years or so. But I got my bike fit after I changed saddles...Having the seat height, handlebars, and so on dialed in might help so I'm going to try it again. It is more T shaped than either of the other saddles and the cutout is a little longer too. I have high hopes :)

[Owlie]

The Ruby just didn't seem to have enough padding, esp considering I'd been riding a Terry saddle for 8 years or so. But I got my bike fit after I changed saddles...Having the seat height, handlebars, and so on dialed in might help so I'm going to try it again. It is more T shaped than either of the other saddles and the cutout is a little longer too. I have high hopes :)

If the Ruby still seems too hard, try a Jett. The footprint is very similar, just more padding.

[CindyK]

If the Ruby still seems too hard, try a Jett. The footprint is very similar, just more padding.

Thanks! I tried my old Ruby today, the one I have isn't wide enough for one thing but I think I'd still prefer a little more padding and I was wondering if the Jett had a similar shape. It's hard to tell from the pics on Specialized's website.

I got a Bontrager - can't remember which one off the top of my head - on loan from my LBS to try out. But I don't think it's wide enough either. I expect I'll be ordering a Jett soon enough.

[CindyK]

The saddle I tried was the Bontrager Affinity SL. It's shaped almost exactly like the Ruby. I liked it a lot more than I thought I would. I was worried about not having a cutout but my girlie bits were actually quite comfy, better than with either Terry OR the Ruby, so now I wonder if maybe cutouts aren't a good thing for me. Anyway...

It felt a little narrow when I sat up on the hoods, perfect in the drops. I was planning to get a little more agressive with my position anyway, so I think I'll do that and then see if this one works or if I need a wider one - the one I have now is the medium width, 143.

[Trek420]

Fame and fortune await? Read this saddle tips thread from "Cervello Engineers". It's almost word for word (and exactly word for word in bits) what we discussed here.

http://www.cervelo.com/en/engineering/ask-the-engineers/the-four-and-a-half-rules-of-road-saddles-.html

The word is getting out: women need saddles that fit and wrenches need to know how to do that.

[OakLeaf]

:D :D Sounds like we need to double down on figuring out that shape test for them. :p

[OakLeaf]

That needs a caveat.

The page is open to comments ... ;)

[Trek420]

The page is open to comments ... ;)

Yeah, as in "Dudes, you need to hire the OP as an engineer" :rolleyes: :cool:

I imagine if you Google search "Women's saddle fit test" you get this discussion. I've often said this is the best place in cyberspace for women cyclists and this proves it. Susan? Your little discussion board is famous. :)

[OakLeaf]

I think we've done enough work for them. ;)

Eh, if it were a saddle manufacturer maybe, but they're just trying to spread the knowledge, and that's all good AFAIC. At least they credited Knott and this board with her cut-out test, though a linky would've been nice.

[Trek420]

they're just trying to spread the knowledge, and that's all good AFAIC.

That's the opinion at Chez Knott :cool: More knowledge more better.


At least they credited Knott and this board with her cut-out test, though a linky would've been nice.

Huh? We did not see that. :confused: Oooh, found it! Cool, and thanks, Oakleaf!

[damon_rinard]

Whoa! That's a little earie. Looks like they're TE lurkers!

Hi Sheila, Sorry to be a spook - yes, I am an occasional lurker here, mostly because of the high-quality problem solving demonstrated by this group of smart women not afraid to discuss the details that really matter. I've avoided posting until now, out of respect and also in order not to disturb the cooperative spirit here, which I think could be partly the result of a (virtually) women-only environment. I'm only posting now because Trek420 graciously invited me to do so; I hope it's okay. This is my second post. My first post (http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=2001&page=128&p=666734#post666734) is introducing myself in the "Getting to know you" thread.


Even the percentile of men and women being such and such a width. I've linked to that discussion many times for people here. That is the thread where someone placed the coins on a saddle and took a picture. Really great discussion. And play-doh, huh? Wonder whose idea that was? ;)


I agree, the stats on sit bone width are a nice reference. I guess we used the same database. Is the play-doh technique yours? If so please let me know how you'd like to be named and I'll revise the article to give proper credit, as I did for the Cutout Test after Knott called me on the phone. I had PMed her but not in time for her to see it, so I was really happy to hear from her and be able to use her real name in giving credit for the test!


The point of taking center to center and adding 2 centimeters to get saddle width is a problem, though. My center to center is 118, and yet my outside distance is around 155. I can't use a saddle more narrow than 150, and wider is better. Yet this puts me on a 138. That needs a caveat.

Agreed, and as OakLeaf mentioned, maybe you'd like to add that as a comment on the article? I'm aware of that concept, which is why I wrote: "...equal or greater than the center-to-center spacing between your sit bones, plus about 1 centimeter on each side."
And "Saddle width >= sit bone spacing + 2cm" (emphasis added).

What do you think?

Respectfully,

Damon Rinard

[damon_rinard]

Hi OakLeaf,

Thanks for pointing out that we gave Knott credit. I looked into the link, which I thought was in the article, and it is - the words "The cutout test" are hyperlinked to the individual post Knott made. But the web page style simply changes the color of the linked text to red, which doesn't stand out enough to be an obvious link. So we're editing the article now to specifically give the link, and in a more obvious way. Thanks for mentioning that!

Respecfully,

Damon Rinard

[Trek420]

I'm only posting now because Trek420 graciously invited me to do so; I hope it's okay. This is my second post.
Damon Rinard

And a hale and hearty welcome to TE! Just remember to leave the seat down. :cool: ;)

[damon_rinard]

And a hale and hearty welcome to TE! Just remember to leave the seat down. :cool: ;)

Thanks for the welcome, Trek420! Don't worry, I'm well-trained - seat's always down. But the saddle's at just the right height. ;)

[Tjokkits]

hello everybody, my first post apart from getting to know detail. so I am the proud owner of a whole garage full of saddles, not cheap ones, but I am not getting it right, so maybe somebody here will have ideas.

so ive been riding quite comfortably on spez avatar 155 for years, until I started riding a bit more aggressively, from thereon they are to cushy and caused chaving. Got sella italia slr (ladies one) but think its too narrow, chaving again. Spez ruby okay for up to 3 hour rides then same thing, and I find the saddle flexes too much to my liking.

now this is the thing, went for bike fit on my new stumpy fsr, the guy sold me a fizik arione donna, and whalla, no chaving!! but.... it squashes other tender bits badly. I tried to make it work, drop front a bit etc but no. apart from that the best saddle ever though. so where can I get something with that shape but a cut out or deeper indentation?

[Sky King]

hello everybody, my first post apart from getting to know detail. so I am the proud owner of a whole garage full of saddles, not cheap ones, but I am not getting it right, so maybe somebody here will have ideas.

so ive been riding quite comfortably on spez avatar 155 for years, until I started riding a bit more aggressively, from thereon they are to cushy and caused chaving. Got sella italia slr (ladies one) but think its too narrow, chaving again. Spez ruby okay for up to 3 hour rides then same thing, and I find the saddle flexes too much to my liking.

now this is the thing, went for bike fit on my new stumpy fsr, the guy sold me a fizik arione donna, and whalla, no chaving!! but.... it squashes other tender bits badly. I tried to make it work, drop front a bit etc but no. apart from that the best saddle ever though. so where can I get something with that shape but a cut out or deeper indentation?

I ride the Rivet Independence (http://store.biketouringnews.com/rivet-independence/) which is very similar in shape - is leather without any padding so no squash anywhere! We sell them so i attached the link

160mm X 280mm

[Scrappy]

SkyKing - I just purchased 2 Rivet Saddles, the Pearl and Independence but haven't tried either of them yet. How do they compare in comfort (for you) to Brooks + Brooks Imperial?

Scrappy

[Sky King]

SkyKing - I just purchased 2 Rivet Saddles, the Pearl and Independence but haven't tried either of them yet. How do they compare in comfort (for you) to Brooks + Brooks Imperial?

Scrappy

I have the Independence on my Gilles Berthoud and Pearl (Cromo) on my Surly ECR. I had the Rivet Pearl TI on my Rivendell. I never liked the Brooks B17 for me. I sorta liked the Brooks Imperial however the "fenders" - the long sides on the Brooks saddles make my upper leg and lower Glutes go numb after about 35 miles, that doesn't happen with the Rivets. The Independence's long narrow nose took a bit of getting used to but now I like it - I only have about 300 miles on the Independence. Let me know what you think!

[jobob]

I *really* like my new-to-me Rivet Pearl Ti -- hi SkyKing! :) -- even more than my previous fave Brooks Team Pro, which, for me, is more comfy than the Brooks B17.

The Rivet Pearl is da bomb. :)

[Awsmile]

I had a Terry Butterfly on my old Cannondale, never had many issues except some usually tolerable chafing in the bits. When I got a new bike the saddle was AWFUL (Specialized Ruby) so I ditched it and bought a Terry Falcon X as I wanted something a little more performance - oriented (and to fix the chafing). It has a bigger cut-out than the butterfly which completely solved the chafing issue but now I've developed these hard lumps in the crease between my thighs and labia. They are hard and don't seem to be fluid filled or infected in any way (not warm or red - in fact they aren't even visible I can just feel them. Oh and no broken skin). I went back to the butterfly for a 45 mile ride this morning and it seemed to be easier on the wierd lumps but it still chafes.

The Falcon is more pear shaped and MUCH more flexible than the Butterfly.

I took another look at the Ruby and I might give it a second try now that I've had the bike fit (of course, changing saddles will change that somewhat) and I'm going back to my bike fitter guy hopefully this week in any case but in the meantime does anyone have any thoughts? I don't mind buying another saddle but I'd like to make this the last one for a while...

Cindy K, I know this is an older post and you might not see this, but did you ever find out what those hard lumps were? I've gotten them also. The first time was on a beach vacation where we rented cruisers to ride on the sand - no cutout and absolute agony. Since then, the lumps show up periodically on rides of more than 25 miles on my regular pretty-good saddle. Just wondered if you still get them and if you were able to find a solution. Thanks!