Bike fit or frame problem?

[acutrainer]

I bought a 50cm frame last year, started riding, and ended up with 2 bulging disks in my lower back. I had it fit and I was still getting searing pain in my left lower back and right trapezius/scapula area. The bike shop guys changed all that they could on the bike (except the frame), but the frame was too big & the fit was off. So, I got a custom frame this year to "cure" the problem for my 5'2" short torsoed body. The frame sits on 650 tires (so it's pretty small). I've had 3 fits for the bike and the pain in my lower back has returned with a vengence! With the seat low, the pain in my back is horrid, but no pain in my shoulder area. If I raise the seat 1", the pain in my back is reduced (not gone), but the shoulder/trap area hurts now. I try raising it another 1/2" and the back still hurts and now my trap is screaming and my hands are falling asleep! 2 people have said my frame is now too small! I'm at whits end and don't know what to do. My questions:
1) How do I know if it's a bad fit or the frame really is too small?
2) How do I fix the problem??

Last week after an 85 mile ride I sat in a bath of epsom salts & cried. I would love to ride my bike pain free! Any suggestions?

[Smilie]

Have you had a professional fit? Maybe they could tell you what you need to do. Sorry about the pain, that is not fair at all. Sending you good vibes.

[aicabsolut]

You're making some very large changes to your seat position, for one. Usually, seat height and fore/aft is tweaked millimeters at a time, not inches. Every time you move your seat up or down, you might need to consider the fore/aft position to keep your knees in the right spot, and then you might need to look at your stem position to keep the reach comfortable in terms of saddle to bar drop, overall reach, and how much weight is where. Get some help from a good fitter in your area who will help you get started using all the rules of thumb for bike fit, and from there, they ought to work with you on an indoor trainer to tweak things subtly, by a few degrees in stem angle or moving other things around at a maximum of a centimeter at a time.

[spokewench]

Advice for the bad-backed bicyclist from another bad-backed bicyclist. You most probably can get your bike to work for you; but you will need to be patient. First off, never, ever increase your mileage or time on the bike radically; cause if you do, you will pay for it. You must increase things even more incrementally than most others do because you have a weak link and it needs more time to adjust to more time in the saddle; more climbing than you are used to; pushing harder than normal; etc. All these things must be increased thoughtfully, or you will suffer.

I do not know how your bike is set up, but I have, for years, even when I raced, run a higher handlebar than some other racers; mostly because if I had my bars lower, I would die, have absolutely no power in my legs and would go slower rather than faster. The aerodynamics of the fit will not help you go faster if your back refuses to be in that position and you lose power. So, I run all my road bikes handlebars pretty level with my seat, or a little bit above. A 1/4 of an inch difference and I can suffer big time! So, try raising your handlebar to level with your seat is my suggestion to you. I would also look at the reach, cause longer reach also changes your hip angle and can give you back pain. Again, I do not know how you fit now, but you should keep this in mind. (you do not want to be too scrunched up however) THis is all a fine balancing act!

Someone above noted that you should not change your seat height too much too dramatically and they are correct, so if you are changing your seat height do it slowly. If your seat is a little too high, it can cause back pain because it again changes the angle of your hips as you sit on the saddle. Back pain can be exacerbated by tight hamstrings and if they are tight, then you need to lower your seat just a little tiny bit. That may help in the fit department. I lower my seat just a little in the winter time because 1) I'm usually wearing tights which makes me sit higher on the seat; and 2) my hamstrings are usually tighter due to the coldness of the weather.

Because these changes are very small, you can see that you have to play with your fit just a little until you can get it right.

FINALLY, the most important thing I can think of with regard to back pain is Stretch, Stretch, and Stretch. Make sure you have stretched everything well; i.e. hamstrings, IT bands, back, shoulders etc. I have found that easy Yoga is great for this! Also, ibuprofen, if you can handle it, is a wonder drug; and CORE STRENGTH is an absolute must. You must do crunches, planks, whatever else you can to strengthen the front so that it can compensate for the back!

Hope this helps. Hang in there, it is no fun to have back pain; but if you try to do all the above, you will, with patience, be able to enjoy that lovely bike! spoke

[Tuckervill]

I'm guessing you're having back pain when you're not on the bike, too? I'd work on it from that angle first. Bulging disks were probably not caused by poor bike fit, although that could have exacerbated it.

I've had disks repaired twice in my back, so I feel ya. Core strength, stretching like SW said, strong hams and quads...that's the insurance that keeps your back in good health. I'd work on the back issues off the bike first.

Karen

[acutrainer]

Thank you, thank you, thank you! I really do appreciate your comments! Great advice and I will start moving things SLOWLY on my bike.
I did have a professional bike fit - twice by a former Olympic racer. Apparently he's the best in our area.
I was a former gymnast in my "younger years" so I imagine that predisposed my back to a weakness, in addition to bodybuilding through college (& beyond). I do stretch and use the foam roller. I should do it daily, but right now it's an honest stretch every other day. I have tight psoas and hyperflexible hamstrings which does lead to a torque in my hips, which changes the pull of my muscles on my sacrum. Thus, muscle imbalance causes my back pain. Yes, it does hurt sometimes when I'm not riding, but totally not to the degree of riding. 60-minutes of climbing the stairs at Harvard Stadium with no pain. 12 miles on my bike and pain starts.
I'm sure the bulging disks are a result of years of combined hard training, not just the biking.
Thank you again SO much for your insight. I appreciate it so much!

[KnottedYet]

I'd suggest adding a sports med PT or a PT who also does bike fit into the mix.

In all likelihood, your posture on the bike is off more than your bike fit is off.

A bike fitter can make sure your bike is set up correctly, but sometimes it takes a PT or fitter with PT-type background to be sure your body is set up correctly!

(and climbing stairs has the lumbar spine sustained in a very different degree of flexion than sitting on a bike, so I'm not at all surprised you can climb stairs fine.)

[NbyNW]

What everyone else said, plus --

Back injuries are finicky creatures. I found with my own injury that it's been a three steps forward - two steps back process. Sometimes it can be hard to interpret your body's signals to back off vs. push through the pain.

My big advice is to be patient, because setbacks just mean more time not doing the things you want to be doing.

Is hot/cold therapy ok for bulging disks? I've found that just a few minutes of ice massage can bring down the inflammation in my back.

Good luck!

[Mr. Bloom]

acutrainer: I've also had to deal with serious pain in my minor rhomboid (which could could be confused with the trapezius). I also have a desk job.

The source of my pain was my actually the posture I used sitting at my desk. I did four things: raised my computer monitor 6 inches, focused on holding my head more upright (my bifocals drew my head forward), started doing push ups to stretch the muscle, and did stretches that mimic push up movements.

After six months of discomfort, the pain was clear in 2 weeks.

Just a thought...it may not be the bike and may be something else needing adjustment...

[aicabsolut]

I second the advice for a PT-trained fitter. It sounds like you saw a good fitter, but he is probably still not equipped to handle your specific muscle imbalances and needs. For example, he may see that you're flexible and can handle a more aggressive setup, but maybe that isn't the best thing. Maybe it is, but you just need to learn how to sit properly on the bike such that you don't aggravate the imbalance in your pelvis. Maybe a tilt in the nose of the saddle one way or the other could help you. There are some fitting services offered at more medical type facilities (where they may have physicians and/or PTs on hand, and where you can get fitness testing done). Now the fitters there may not be as good as the one you went to, but they may understand what's going on with your biomechanics more, giving you some valuable information of how you should be trying to sit.

[Flur]

I third the advice to see a sports med doc/PT with cycling training. Since the pain is side-specific (left in the low back and right in the upper back), it's possible that you have an imbalance somewhere.

[grey]

I have two bad disks in my lower back (L4 & L5) that were nearly blown. I too have always been very active. However, I've found riding helps my back - but there are some things I have learned that may or may not help, and some things that echo what others here have said:

My handlebars cannot be lower than my seat, and I spend more time in a more upright position - I'm only just now fairly comfortable with my hands on the brake hoods, and I only spend a few short minutes at a time in the drops. The injury is 3 years old now and still creates problems from time to time, but I've learned I must take my time with EVERYTHING.

If a more upright position helps, you can get a hybrid and put road tires on it. Or, I know a number of people who have bad backs and ride recumbent bikes now.

Someone else said core strength - absolutely work the abs. I hate ab work, but I make myself do it at least once a week.

The suggestion of getting a physical therapist to have a look at your position on the bike is an excellent one. I recommend PT for anybody who's had a debilitating injury, without the guy I had, I don't know if I'd be on a bike at all yet.

Most of all: (((hugs))). I know what it's like to lie there in pain, crying and wondering if life will ever be normal and let you do any of the things you want to do without hurting so much.

[Triskeliongirl]

I think the recom. of getting a PT in the loop is a good one, and perhaps also an orthopod.

I had severe back and hip pain (both on and off the bike) that didn't go away after a cycling accident. It turned out that it was caused by a poorly healed fracture that left me with a 3 cm leg length discrpancy, twisted hip, and inflamed SI joint. First it took a really good orthopod at our medical center to diagnose the problem. Next he sent me to a really good PT that gave me back strengthening exercises, and physically manipulated my SI joint until it was healed. She also gave me inserts for my shoes to wear on the short leg side. Then I went to visit with a cycling biomechanicist (Tom Slocum of High Sierra Cycling) who measured the impact of my LLD (and also twisted hip) on my pedal stroke, and made me a custom crank set that compensates as well as possible for my biomechanical issues.

If you are willing to travel, you might want to visit Andy Pruitt in Boulder, who runs a clinic specifically for cyclists with biomechanical issues, and he could also give you a therapeutic bike fit, which is diff. from the fits you can get in a normal bike shop.