Ti vs. Steel for Commuting

[kfergos]

Is there any compelling reason to ride a titanium bike for commuting rather than steel?

I ask because I'm thinking seriously about getting a custom bike, and I'm agonizing over material choice. I don't want CF or aluminum; I love the feel of steel. My LBS is giving me a quote on a Seven Alaris (http://www.sevencycles.com/road_detail.php?bike=alaris), and they *really* are pushing me towards titanium. I've ridden 7,000 miles so far since last September, and they say with that kind of mileage a titanium bike is well worth it.

But I've also had my eye on the Co-Motion Nor'Wester (http://www.co-motion.com/single_bikes/norwester.html), which looks like a pretty gorgeous steel bike. It would definitely be much cheaper than a similar titanium bike, but my LBS isn't a Co-Motion dealer, so I think I'd have to go through somebody else (sad!). Weight is not that big a deal for me since, as a commuter, I carry loads of stuff with me all the time anyway.

This bike would be both a sturdy workhorse commuter and my bike for the 100-mile rides I've fallen in love with. I'd ride the STP and all the long training rides on it. So for that I'd like as light as possible, although with commuting weight isn't such an issue.

Help!

[Blueberry]

Take a look at the Indy Fab Club Racer. Contrary to what the name sounds like, it's designed as a long distance bike and might be just the ticket for what you need.

If you're thinking of doing lots of traveling, it might be worth looking at S&S Couplers (or a folding bike).

CA

[7rider]

Is there any compelling reason to ride a titanium bike for commuting rather than steel?



Ti Pros
No rust...ever.
Lifetime frame.
No metal fatigue.
Smooth as silk ride.
Lighter weight.
Custom geometry (for the Alaris)

Ti cons
More expensive.

Swooon...I'd love to have a ti commuter. Some day....the Mudhoney (http://www.sevencycles.com/cyclocross.php)will be mine (or maybe the Muse (http://www.sevencycles.com/touring.php)).

[kfergos]

Take a look at the Indy Fab Club Racer. Contrary to what the name sounds like, it's designed as a long distance bike and might be just the ticket for what you need.

If you're thinking of doing lots of traveling, it might be worth looking at S&S Couplers (or a folding bike).

CAI actually got a quote on this one, but when I talked to the dealer, they said the Club Racer was a lot like the Nor'Wester, except the Nor'Wester is a little cheaper. However, the Club Racer is on my list too.


Ti Pros
No rust...ever.
Lifetime frame.
No metal fatigue.
Smooth as silk ride.
Lighter weight.
Custom geometry (for the Alaris)

Ti cons
More expensive.I'm a very light person (108 - 112 lbs), so metal fatigue isn't an issue. Also wouldn't a custom steel frame be a lifetime frame? How does the ti feel compared to steel?

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

i like steel, so my opinion is prejudiced. ;)

However- I'd say that if you are looking for speedy rides and can afford it, then titanium is a great pick. Also great for hilly but shorter rides. I'd love a titanium short-ride-fasty-bike.

If you want comfort for long distance riding, then I would pick steel. Others would not. :cool:
Not saying Ti is not comfortable- but I've heard people say both- that titanium was comfortable and that it was harsh feeling. Most people do find steel a comfy ride but heavier.
We have a wealthy friend who has not one but two titanium Sevens, both custom made for him. Unlike us, he likes to ride fast and mash up the hills like a demon. :D His Sevens are gorgeous bikes. One he has loaded with racks and uses as a grocery bike (!!) :eek:. He is not much taller than me, and the other day he was curious about my new steel Luna road bike and asked if he could ride it around the block a few times. When he came back he said that compared to his Sevens, my bike felt really stable as compared to his twitchy bikes, and also he said it felt like riding on velvet and than his bikes felt way harsher and bumpy riding. He's the kind of guy who never says things 'just to be nice'. :) But he loves to ride fast and he'll be happy staying with his ti bikes.

One other minor thing to consider is that ti bikes cost way more and you need to make sure they are really in a safe place if you use them for commuting, so they don't get stolen.
Is there any way you could go for a LONG test ride on a titanium, like 30 miles or so?

[7rider]

I'm a very light person (108 - 112 lbs), so metal fatigue isn't an issue. Also wouldn't a custom steel frame be a lifetime frame? How does the ti feel compared to steel?

Lifetime warranty, Yes. Last a lifetime. Maybe. Probably, with a high-quality steel frame (such as what you are considering).

A ti bike from Seven is infinitely customizeable. You can't really say "How does ti feel?" when it comes to a Seven. The question is: How will YOUR ti bike feel?? If you want it stiff and fast for racing, they can do that. If you want is soft and comfortable, they can do that, too.

[maillotpois]

this has been covered at some length, but the "feel" of a bike often has more to do with frame geometry and components (wheels) than materials.

I second the concern about corrosivity of steel. if I were looking for a bike for commuting I would want something bulletproof and would not want to worry about buffing out and sealing every scratch.

[SadieKate]

Most people do find steel a comfy ride but heavier.As was said, it's in the tube set and the geometry. I think steel has an equal opportunity to be harsher and lighter than ti. I'll take my ti Spectrum for long rides over one particular steel bike in my stables at any time but I also have a Mercian that is just as comfortable as the ti Spectrum. I don't think there is any "most people" to be said about any material.

Hubby has a Co-motion Nor'wester on order for long road rides into the boonies. He's also working with Jennifer Green of www.headbadges.com to get a custom headbadge which will then be available to anyone who wants one. Just a tidbit of info on Co-motion.

Sometimes, it just comes down to the aesthetics that you want.

[TahoeDirtGirl]

Support your local bikesmiths. Buy a Seven:)

I looked at the one you were looking at, do you load much on yours? It's at the end of the spectrum for light touring. I like beefier bikes for commuting, I guess because I mtn bike rather than road bike...

And Seven has better color choices.

And maybe you can witness the birth of your new bike? That would be, in my opinion, the most awesome thing ever...

[GLC1968]

Wow, I was just thinking about this exact question yesterday.

I ride a 2004 Terry Classic for my commuter and it's 531 Reynolds steel. It's a 19" and set up in the exact same cockpit/configuration as my 'go fast' bike. My 'go fast' bike is a 19" 2005 Terry Isis - Titanium (the only year they made the Isis in Titanium). Both bikes have the same saddle and handlebars. The Classic has lower level componentry, gatorskin tires and touring grade wheels. Both bikes will hold racks and fenders.

My commute is 19 miles each way. This has lately been my only biking. Yesterday, I got out for a 25 mile ride with H and I took my Isis for the first time in MONTHS. It felt the exact same as my commuter as far as my position/comfort - but MAN...was it smooth! It was also much lighter (lighter wheels, no rack, Ti vs steel, etc)...but the part I noticed was that it felt like the road was glass. If steel is 'real'...Ti is BUTTER.

Since then, I have been debating using the Isis as my commuter. I figure it may be worth it since it's the only riding I get to do these days and there are some rough roads I commute on. My only 'fear' is leaving this lovely Ti bike locked to a bike rack at work. It's fairly secure - but I seriously doubt that anyone has ever tempted fate quite that much. ;)

If you have a secure place for it, I'd go with Ti. Seriously - I was amazed at the difference all over again this weekend!

Edited to add: One other thing - the tires/wheels on my Isis should have left me feeling more of the road imperfections than the tires/wheels on my Classic. The fact that is was smoother meant that the difference was truly in the frame. That said, the right wheels/tires can make a HUGE difference in bike feel, too.

[amy]

One he has loaded with racks and uses as a grocery bike (!!)

That's how I will know when I have arrived. I will have a ti bike for grocery shopping and I'll leave it on the bike rack without a lock or a care in the world.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

That's how I will know when I have arrived. I will have a ti bike for grocery shopping and I'll leave it on the bike rack without a lock or a care in the world.

That's exactly what he does. He leans his "Grocery Seven" against the building and just goes in the cafe for breakfast where he can't even see it from the window. Yikes.
Even though we don't live in a high crime town, bike do get stolen here from time to time and I can't even IMAGINE doing this!!! :eek: :eek: :cool: :cool:

I had an awful dream 2 nights ago about my bike getting stolen. :(

[amy]

Wow! Unbelievable. :) Maybe because he's just so bold about it, people think it's some kind of trick and stay away?? :)

[7rider]

I had an awful dream 2 nights ago about my bike getting stolen. :(

Okay...blatant thread hijack for just a moment....
This is soo strange! I just had a dream last night that my bike disappeared. It woke me up, I was so stressed out.

[KnottedYet]

I have a friend whose dad was a metallurgist for Boeing. He studied metal failure (got sent to all kinds of airplane crash sites to look at what happened to the metal)

He calls ti "the perfect metal."

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Okay...blatant thread hijack for just a moment....
This is soo strange! I just had a dream last night that my bike disappeared. It woke me up, I was so stressed out.

That's not all. Two nights before my stolen bike dream, I dreamt that some teenagers bashed up my beautiful bike while I was in a store buying a bottle of water for just a second. :(

I don't usually have such dreams, and two of them within 3 nights. :(

[ilima]

My pure road bike is Ti, and my commuter is a steel 'cross bike.

Although I'm a fan of steel, if I had to pick one--I'd pick Ti.

[kfergos]

That's not all. Two nights before my stolen bike dream, I dreamt that some teenagers bashed up my beautiful bike while I was in a store buying a bottle of water for just a second.

The other night I dreamed that my brand new chain was covered with rust. Guilty conscience? :p

Thank you all so far for the ti/steel input -- I admit I'm still in a quandry, but I'm going to try to find a ti bike I can take for a test ride to see how I like the feel.

[Grits]

[QUOTE=BleeckerSt_Girl;352597]
One he has loaded with racks and uses as a grocery bike (!!) :eek:.


Ha! I just put the rack back on my Terry Classic and am using it as my grocery store bike! (But I lock mine up. Guess that's the difference from not being wealthy!)

My Terry is steel, and I just got a new mid range road bike. I can't tell a lot of difference in comfort level, but gosh, the road bike sure is easier to pedal from point A to point B just from the weight factor, especially if there are any hills in the way.

[amy]

So, I showed my husband a picture of my future ti bike. "Honey, I reeeaaalllly like this." By his reaction, I don't think I'll be getting it for my birthday. Several thousand dollars... what's the big deal?? :p

[Blueberry]

I actually got a quote on this one, but when I talked to the dealer, they said the Club Racer was a lot like the Nor'Wester, except the Nor'Wester is a little cheaper. However, the Club Racer is on my list too.

Hmmm...good to know. I don't have a local dealer for Indy fab, so I can't get prices. I'm starting to think about the same type of bike - and am going through much the same debate. I do know that Indy Fab will make the Club Racer in Ti (though I really don't want to think about how much it would cost). Out of curiosity, have you looked at the Seven Muse? I know if can be built up lighter, as more of a century bike. Just wondering:)

Of course, I'll be saving up for a while for any of the above.

CA

[kfergos]

My LBS loaned me an amazing bike to test-ride the feel of titanium: the Seven Elium SG (which frame starts at $4,000; the entire bike I'm considering would cost ~$4,200) with Dura-Ace components, perfectly adjusted to my size based on my fit specs.

Wow. :eek:

I spent the whole time trying to think of superlatives grand enough to cover the experience, but although I'm a writer for a living, I still failed. The bike practically climbed hills for me, smoothed out bumps, cornered tightly, and ate up the miles seamlessly. *Swoon* I practically cried when I returned it to the shop. Now to convince the dh that I need a similar (albeit significantly cheaper) steed myself...

Question for those of you with custom bikes: Did you find the price tended to increment up as you designed the bike, or was the estimate close to your ultimate price? Also, what should I ask the bike shop before actually committing?

[Ana]

Is it common for Seven dealers to let you test ride a bicycle? Just curious. I was thinking about wandering over to my local Seven authorized dealer.... :p I've had intense post-ride headaches and I'm wondering whether it's from the rough ride on my aluminum Lemond Tourmalet or not :( I'm so sad because I love my bike and I love cycling but my last headache was so bad, I cringe when I think about riding :(:(

[kfergos]

Is it common for Seven dealers to let you test ride a bicycle? Just curious. (

I don't know about in general, but when I asked "Do you have one I could test ride?" my LBS was able to get me one within a day. My LBS (Landry's) is a chain of 4 stores, and they apparently have bought some stock Sevens for people to test ride. It can't hurt to ask!

[IFjane]

Question for those of you with custom bikes: Did you find the price tended to increment up as you designed the bike, or was the estimate close to your ultimate price?

I have a custom IndyFab Ti Crown Jewel (complete with sterling silver headbadge) and love every inch of her! I love her so much I did not even get her painted (saved $$); accordingly, her name is Godiva 'cause she is naked, except for some strategically placed decals....

Before, I had a steel bike & the ride was great though the bike did not fit me. When I got the new bike, the ride was so amazing I could not believe it. Twitchy? Yes, if I want her to be. Like butter? You bet! I don't have to worry about rust; I don't have to worry about scratching the paint; I only have to worry about her leaving me unexpectedly. Fortunately, that hasn't happened so far. I travel with this bike and I ride at home with this bike. As of now, it is the only bike in my stable and I see no reason to have another. In contrast, my DH has four....:rolleyes: And he's not even here to ride them!

I commute on my bike, though not regularly for a variety of reasons (mainly because I seldom can stay at my office all day but must travel to schools throughout our district), I ride centuries on her and I ride short, fast rides. She is great and I could not ask any more of a bike.

To answer your original question, no, the price of the bike did not inch up because of the design. There were add-ons (the headbadge, for one) that added to the price but they were like options when ordering a car. I found that IF (because of my LBS) was a fabulous place to have a custom bike built. And Ti is the way to go! The $4200 price tag does not sound out of line to me. But then, if you knew what I spent on mine (not just from IF, but on upgrades to the wheels, drivetrain, etc.) you wouldn't believe it. :cool:

[7rider]

Oooo...the Elium is a swoon-inducing bike! I don't think I'd be brave enough (or rich enough) to have one built as my commuter, but it is a glorious road bike. DH actually pushed lightly for me to get an Elium when I got my custom Seven...but I "settled" for the ID8!



Question for those of you with custom bikes: Did you find the price tended to increment up as you designed the bike, or was the estimate close to your ultimate price? Also, what should I ask the bike shop before actually committing?

I had a good idea of what I wanted on my bike, component wise, before I ordered. So my LBS quoted me an "out the door" price for the built up bike. I guess if I varied from that list, we'd discuss changes in the price, but there was no change in the ultimate price when I picked it up.

From Ana: Is it common for Seven dealers to let you test ride a bicycle? Just curious.

Some shops carry a few stock Sevens on hand for demo purposes. Sizes are limited, of course. Best to check with your shop. Of course..post-ride headaches could be a function of how hard you push yourself compared to how you are eating and drinking on the bike (or not). Check the nutrition forum, and search on "headaches".

[Blueberry]

On the test ride front - I just figured out that when you pull up a dealer on Seven's website, you have the option of looking to see what bikes they have available to test. I'm sure there will be changes - but it might give you an idea...

I've been drooling at the Indy Fab Club Racer in ti - but it seems to be significantly more expensive. Maybe one day....

CA

[kfergos]

I'm taking the plunge -- I'm going to order the titanium commuter. And lots of bike locks.:D

[gnat23]

http://www.bugsmack.com/pix/livejournal/bikelock.jpg

-- gnat! :D

[smilingcat]

must be in a really bad neighborhood?

must really love his or her bike?

or perhaps bit paranoid about theft?

or could it be static art with message?

beats me. Looks like a good bike for a workout. Can you imagine trying to climb some of the hills in SF with that thing oui!! and coming down on a coaster brake.

back to Ti/steel. I'm still biased to Ti. (cause it sounds more exotic :p)

smilingcat

[Blueberry]

I'm taking the plunge -- I'm going to order the titanium commuter. And lots of bike locks.:D

Which one are you ordering?? Inquiring minds want to know;)

Get good locks - and get insurance on it. That way, you'll have some peace of mind:)

CA

[kfergos]

Which one are you ordering?? Inquiring minds want to know;)

Get good locks - and get insurance on it. That way, you'll have some peace of mind:)

CA

It'll either be the Seven Alaris (http://www.sevencycles.com/road_detail.php?bike=alaris) or the Axiom (http://www.sevencycles.com/road_detail.php?bike=axiom_sg).

Is insurance worth it? Over time wouldn't you end up paying way more than the bike is worth? Also where do you get bike insurance? Any lock recommendations?

[7rider]

It'll either be the Seven Alaris (http://www.sevencycles.com/road_detail.php?bike=alaris) or the Axiom (http://www.sevencycles.com/road_detail.php?bike=axiom_sg).

Is insurance worth it? Over time wouldn't you end up paying way more than the bike is worth? Also where do you get bike insurance? Any lock recommendations?

Ooooooo...Yay! Congrats!
RE: insurance. Do you own a home? Talk to your insurance company about a rider on your homeowners policy and whether it would be covered there. Locks will depend on where you park it, really. Talk to your LBS about some recommendations, given your area. I have a friend who likes StreetCuffs (http://www.amazon.com/Master-Lock-22-Inch-9-Link-8290DPS/dp/B0009V1WQQ). Chain locks (http://www.onguardlock.com/chain/) would be good too.

[Blueberry]

Re: Locks - I use the Kryptonite Mini U. And a cable lock. From what I hear (not sure how much truth there is to it), thieves rarely carry the tools for both (and at that point, why bother?).

Re: Insurance - You may be able to get a rider on your homeowners' policy. Otherwise, just make sure you have coverage (less your deductible). I doubt a separate inland marine policy would make sense - unless you were racing.

They're both beautiful!! I'm still drooling at the Muse - but I would build it up lighter. Wish they had something between the Alaris and the Muse....

CA

[ilima]

I vote for the Alaris!

But I like classic/traditional geometry. The Axiom SG has double-butted tubing, which is lighter but is probably overkill for a commuter (costs more than straight-gauge). I love the matte-finished Seven forks!

[kfergos]

I got my new titanium commuter bike on Friday. Her name is Artemis. I posted pictures on the open topic thread (here (http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=27221)) but I wanted to thank you all for your input and let you know how beautifully she turned out. She started off as a Seven Alaris, but they gave me 'cross stays to toughen her up for pulling a trailer or a rack withloaded panniers, and then of course it's got clearance for fenders and all. I like how she doesn't fit into any specific category: That's the beauty of customizing. It's exactly what I need. Perfect.

Today I took her for her first real long ride, a 90-mile loop on a ride called the Tour de Landry's. Artemis performed excellently, of course; fit perfectly and worked great and kept up with those carbon frames just fine. The titanium ride really is phenomenal. It's not her fault I was in the slowest-paced group...:rolleyes: She did get lots of compliments, including from one of the owners of the Landry's stores, who praised her as the ultimate commuter, and said he'd want one link that. *blushing*

So yay! And thank you all for your input. I haven't bought any locks yet -- at work right now I have a whole locked room just for my bike stuff, and she stays in the apartment with us -- but my work situation will be changing soon, I hope, so any other lock recommendations would certainly be appreciated.