Olympics Women's Road Race

[RoadRaven]

I didn't easily find a thread on this, so I apologise if you have discussed this.

Was anyone else disappointed in the way the women's race began?
It was great that eventually some attacks happened and that there was a breakaway and a chase... but for goodness sake, was anyone else as frustrated as me for the first hour plus watching them tootle along at 30kms or so as if they were on a Sunday recovery ride.

Had no-one told them they were riding for an Olympic GOLD??? - not a Sunday coffee.

When there were attacks, they didn't last... rider 1 attacks, then rider 2 attacks... and then rider 3... and then they turn around to see who will continue the attacks, who will help them break up the bunch... no-one.

I felt so frustrated... if I had been their age, with that opportunity, do you think I would have been sitting in hoping not to get dropped? Hell no! I would have been attacking, lifting the pace, stringing out that damn line. There were talented strong women there..... but nothing

If this is how it is usually (and since we rarely see womens cycling, who really knows?) then it is no wonder women's cycling gets so little sponsorship and media coverage.

Feeling ashamed and disillusioned...

[Blueberry]

We had about 10 minutes of TV coverage (the end of the race), so I didn't get to see the rest of it. That is most disheartening.

CA

[oxysback]

We had about 10 minutes of TV coverage (the end of the race), so I didn't get to see the rest of it. That is most disheartening.

CA

You can watch it here...http://www.nbcolympics.com/video/player.html?assetid=0809_hd_crm_en010&channelcode=sportcy

There's still not very much coverage. Only about 30 minutes for a 78 mile race.

:)

[dex]

I tried to watch the live streaming coverage online (that's really your best bet for seeing a variety of events). I got so bored watching them toodle along that I actually started working instead. By the time the racing got a little interesting, I'd already given up on it. Ah, well.

[Blueberry]

You can watch it here...http://www.nbcolympics.com/video/player.html?assetid=0809_hd_crm_en010&channelcode=sportcy

There's still not very much coverage. Only about 30 minutes for a 78 mile race.

:)

Ah - good to know:) Thanks!! Don't think I'll go back and watch this one (due to the lack of excitement), but I can search around for some of the stuff I've missed (or that wasn't covered on our network...

CA

[dachshund]

The men's race started at a leisurely pace, too. I was really disappointed that they had to ride in pouring rain. I kept thinking, don't crash, please don't crash.

But TV loves those crashes, so that was the next thing they showed. It looked like the Korean woman just suddenly went at a diagonal and took out people in her way. (I haven't watched the online footage yet.) What was she thinking??

I certainly don't race, but I imagine the rain squashed the attacks that we should have seen.

[oxysback]

Ah - good to know:) Thanks!! Don't think I'll go back and watch this one (due to the lack of excitement), but I can search around for some of the stuff I've missed (or that wasn't covered on our network...

CA

You're welcome! I've been watching the 3 day eventing. Our network isn't showing any of that at all.

[Trekhawk]

Oh don't be too hard on them.
I think that everyone was so worried about the conditions ( I think humidity was at about 97 percent at the start) that maybe that just wanted to minimize their chances of cracking. Lets face it plenty of blokes did towards the end of the course. Im sure the girls would have taken that into consideration.
The look of that smog was enough to freak me out.

[Trek420]

It looked like the Korean woman just suddenly went at a diagonal and took out people in her way. (I haven't watched the online footage yet.) What was she thinking??

That's what I was thinking. It was wet, pouring, slipping, I would think the racers would want to organize in the center and nobody would want to be at the edge ... then she went bowling across the pelaton she seemed to waver like one does when tired or trying to zig sag up a hill and then zipped right to the side. It was early in the race so I would not think she'd fade.

I don't draft at all but know you are supposed to stay steady.

Did she have a mechanical? Armstrong got caught up in that I think, great job of getting back in. :D

I wish Longo had placed in the TT. :( So close.

[RoadRaven]

I beg to disagree with those of you saying that the conditions were a reason for not racing. The first hour which TVNZ covered and I got to see was on the flat.

Thats pretty safe even in those conditions. And those conditions, everyone is worried about a slippery road and that is precisely WHY we should have seen attacks going in. Wind or rain make ideal conditions to make a break away, and then attempt to hold it.

Trek, you are right. You absolutely do not want to be in the bunch or at the back in those conditions. And that is why it is such a good reason to break it up, get away from the main group... ride safe and fast with just a handful of other women. That would be the safe thing to do.

I think you are too generous and kind Hawk... someone needs to be hard on them... these gals were supposed to be the best of the best... they didn't ride like it most of the time... and many of didn't even race at all.

If any of you who have replied or even just read this thread... wouldn't you, if you had the chance to be there, wouldn't you want to ride for gold? Wouldn't you want to maximise opportunity? Would you really sit in and think about how you don't want to crash, or would you notice that everyone else was so worried that you could seize the opportunity to take advantage of their fear and ride hard, ride your heart out, ride to WIN the gold?

How sad to say "I rode in an Olympic race" rather than I RACED in the Olympics.

[tulip]

I'd be happy to say I raced in the Olympics;)

[Trekhawk]

I beg to disagree with those of you saying that the conditions were a reason for not racing. The first hour which TVNZ covered and I got to see was on the flat.

Thats pretty safe even in those conditions. And those conditions, everyone is worried about a slippery road and that is precisely WHY we should have seen attacks going in. Wind or rain make ideal conditions to make a break away, and then attempt to hold it.

Trek, you are right. You absolutely do not want to be in the bunch or at the back in those conditions. And that is why it is such a good reason to break it up, get away from the main group... ride safe and fast with just a handful of other women. That would be the safe thing to do.

I think you are too generous and kind Hawk... someone needs to be hard on them... these gals were supposed to be the best of the best... they didn't ride like it most of the time... and many of didn't even race at all.

If any of you who have replied or even just read this thread... wouldn't you, if you had the chance to be there, wouldn't you want to ride for gold? Wouldn't you want to maximise opportunity? Would you really sit in and think about how you don't want to crash, or would you notice that everyone else was so worried that you could seize the opportunity to take advantage of their fear and ride hard, ride your heart out, ride to WIN the gold?

How sad to say "I rode in an Olympic race" rather than I RACED in the Olympics.

I was not talking about the conditions in regard to the rain I was talking about the fact that a lot of these riders would not be use to the humidity and the bad air quality. When I watched the men a lot of great riders suffered because of the humidity. The girls were perhaps being cautious incase the humidity etc took the same toll on them.
I don't race so I guess I don't really have much of a clue but listening to the commentators here it sure sounded like they thought the humidity etc could be an issue for the women too.

[maillotpois]

Yeah, I could see wanting to go out as slowly as possible and spend as little time in the red zone with that smog and humidity. More of a tactical race than one of riding peoples' wheels off. Of course the TT Was completely the opposite.

Good to know about the 3 day eventing, etc. That would be fun to watch and NONE of it is getting shown here. :mad: Too many women in bikinis to show...

[SadieKate]

There was a lot of coverage on 3 Day Eventing. It was on one of the "other" channels. Oxygen? USA? Something. I saw a lot. Gina Miles, the silver medalist, is from Davis.

I saw a lot of dressage yesterday.

[arielmoon]

I just watched the team final for dressage on the streaming feed. About the only way I was going to be able to see it.

I love that Equestrian sports are co-ed.

[oxysback]

I just watched the team final for dressage on the streaming feed. About the only way I was going to be able to see it.

I love that Equestrian sports are co-ed.

Oooh! I'll have to go check that out.

Yep, the sport is co-ed because the horse is the equalizer. :D

[Eden]

I didn't get to see all of the race - our coverage cut back and forth from cycling to 3 or 4 other sports that were happening at the same time, but from my experience I'd say that it is not unusual for a long race to unfold that way. Women do tend to race a bit more tactically and a bit less on brute strength than the men do. Even in men's races long breaks generally succeed, not because the people are that much stronger, but because the peleton either miscalculates the catch or (in a stage race) doesn't care to chase them down.

The olympics is a little different too - the most on any one "team" are 3 people and it really changes the dynamics of the race (Kristen Armstrong was even talking about this before the olympics). It's hard to act as a team when you only have 3 people, so its kind of like a perpetual break away situation. (Women though, you would think, unfortunately would be more accustomed to this situation...)

Normally an early break or lots of attacks early in the race aren't even intended to win the race. Unless you are much stronger than the majority of the field or the event has some serious climbing early on, then its unlikely that you'll stay away. Lots of attacks early on usually is a tactic to wear down the other teams - make them chase , keep them on their toes so that when you really do send out your A racer that they can stay away. With the small teams and the lousy weather I would guess that no one wanted to risk that not working out and then having no teammates for help later on. Who knows - there may have even been some rivalries within country/teams - would you want to be the person who says - we are riding for me to win the gold, to the others.....

[arielmoon]

Ah! Thanks for that insight! I had been wondering if they even really rode as a 'team' in the Olympics. It seems it is more of a 'every man/woman for themselves' kind of a deal.

[RoadRaven]

I was talking about the fact that a lot of these riders would not be use to the humidity and the bad air quality. When I watched the men a lot of great riders suffered because of the humidity. The girls were perhaps being cautious incase the humidity etc took the same toll on them.


Yeah, I could see wanting to go out as slowly as possible and spend as little time in the red zone with that smog and humidity.


Oh I agree, Hawk. The humidity was awful. And yes, of course, humidity does take a toll on any person, male or female.

However, since both of you raise the mens RR, and both mention humidity, I guess its useful to point out that yes, while I agree that some of the men started to wilt probably because of humidity... they went twice the distance.

The two racing styles (men - "who can I drop?") (women - "I hope I don't get dropped") really bear no comparison. And that is what I was hoping to get into discussion with TEers about.

Why do women's races tend to be so different from men's? I find it so frustrating in more than one way. Its frustrating to watch because it looks slow and boring. Its frustrating to watch because if I, who want to watch, and love cycling, find it boring, than how in heck will women's cycling begin to get a high media profile or high sponsorship like men's?

[Eden]

Why do women's races tend to be so different from men's? I find it so frustrating in more than one way. Its frustrating to watch because it looks slow and boring. Its frustrating to watch because if I, who want to watch, and love cycing find it boring, than how in heck will women's cycling bedin to get a high media profile or high sponsorship like men's?

I'm wondering if it isn't a chicken and egg thing.... the men often race the way they do - long break aways, early attacks, for no other reason than to get airtime for their sponsors...... A lot of the men know they stand little to no chance of winning the race with a suicide break (OK, well this years TDF did disabuse that notion a bit), but the fans and the sponsors love it. The women on the other hand have no motivation as their races are rarely televised, so they don't have any reason to get out there and show their colors without thinking about the win.....

[RoadRaven]

I'd be happy to say I raced in the Olympics;)

And if you said that, you would have been thinking tactically, attacking and moving when others showed weakness.
Good on you, Tulip
:)

[RoadRaven]

Women do tend to race a bit more tactically and a bit less on brute strength than the men do. Even in men's races long breaks generally succeed, not because the people are that much stronger, but because the peleton either miscalculates the catch or (in a stage race) doesn't care to chase them down.

But the break and the chase is what is exciting. And while some of these women tried attacking a few times, we didn't really see the attack/attack/attack/attack/attack/attack/attack/attack we would see in a men's race. No, instead I saw a few attacks in the first part of the race, but they didn't even begin to work because no-one took up the challenge.


The olympics is a little different too - the most on any one "team" are 3 people and it really changes the dynamics of the race (Kristen Armstrong was even talking about this before the olympics). It's hard to act as a team when you only have 3 people, so its kind of like a perpetual break away situation. (Women though, you would think, unfortunately would be more accustomed to this situation...)

But even without teams, people make alliances. And I know there is a language barrier in some instances. But you talk with your support crew, your coach etc about who might help you on the road and then you make a friend out there and you try together. Alot of these women would know each other from other international racing events. Surely there was potential for alliances in the absence of full teams...


Normally an early break or lots of attacks early in the race aren't even intended to win the race. Unless you are much stronger than the majority of the field or the event has some serious climbing early on, then its unlikely that you'll stay away. Lots of attacks early on usually is a tactic to wear down the other teams - make them chase , keep them on their toes so that when you really do send out your A racer that they can stay away. With the small teams and the lousy weather I would guess that no one wanted to risk that not working out and then having no teammates for help later on.

Yes, very valid point... but still, there would be "friends" of sorts within that peloton. In my pitiful nowhere-near-Olympics races, we attack often. Well, about half of the men in my grade and me and one other woman. I have been chosen for a team in a team TT this weekend because I attack (or try to), because I am strong (for my grade)... not because I sit in and seem to be strong. No team-mates would be tough, I absolutely agree. But the Olympics is a chance to showcase womens cycling to an international audience which includes sponsors and event managers. I really believe these women had huge responsibilities on the shoulders - its a shame that perhaps they did not know how to rise to that.


Who knows - there may have even been some rivalries within country/teams - would you want to be the person who says - we are riding for me to win the gold, to the others.... .

In the Olympics it should be, if you have same-country team-mates, wahts the best way to get our country gold. Or, if you have to form alliances - whats the best way to my country a medal.
But as you say, Eden, unfortunately human ego can get in the way of so many things - including good racing. We have seen it time after time within TdF teams.

[RoadRaven]

I'm wondering if it isn't a chicken and egg thing.... the men often race the way they do - long break aways, early attacks, for no other reason than to get airtime for their sponsors...... A lot of the men know they stand little to no chance of winning the race with a suicide break (OK, well this years TDF did disabuse that notion a bit), but the fans and the sponsors love it. The women on the other hand have no motivation as their races are rarely televised, so they don't have any reason to get out there and show their colors without thinking about the win.....

Ah yes... good observation.
That probably factors hugely. If you have decided beforehand "there is point" then you wont try to MAKE a point.
And so much of racing is in the head.

So much a chicken/egg thing.
You so often think so clearly Eden. Thankyou.
This is probably a significant factor in why women often race the way women do. :(

[spokewench]

Women are smart! If you haven't noticed. If you know that your competition will not jump a lot; then why would you waste your energy jumping a lot? You will just wear yourself out and then lose in the end.

Women tend to be more conservative in racing - even at the local level; cause they are used to other women being conservative also.

It can be very frustrating in a pack to have it slow down, more and more, as ladies don't want to take pulls or do the work; but whether for good or bad, that is women's road racing in a nutshell.

[Trekhawk]

Ah! Thanks for that insight! I had been wondering if they even really rode as a 'team' in the Olympics. It seems it is more of a 'every man/woman for themselves' kind of a deal.

I think some countries were riding as a team. Kathy Bates of Australia and Vera Carrera of Italy were out the front covering any breaks and setting the pace. I don't think either of these girls finished the race I think they did the job they were meant to do and were spent before the finish. This may not have worked for Australia but Italy got a bronze.
I loved watching Vera Carrera ride she just looks so good on her bike.:)

[RoadRaven]

Thanks for entering into this debate, spokewench. The more I watch of road racing, the more I wonder why the difference is so huge.

You say women are smart... in this instance (road racing) I beg to differ. To me smart would be understanding that any televised event is show-casing women's cycling, and if they treat it as a "tootle" then time and money will not be invested. Therefore "smart" would be to mix it up, to make a break, to chase a break... to me, that would be the smart move. Do you see where I am coming from and what has me so bugged?

Racing should be about courage - the courage to have a go... to risk everything for glory. Thats what a race is fundementally about - whether you are racing others for gold / a yellow jersey... or whether you are racing yourself for a personal best.

If men didn't take risks, then names like Armstrong, Evans, Hushovd, Dean and Contador would not be household names... household names to even non-cycling folks.

By the "smartness" measure, the men who make it to Paris-Nice, to Le Tour, to the Giro, to Paris-Roubaix etc etc etc are pretty damn stupid, right? Of course not. They calculate, they form alliances, they communicate contantly and above all they take risks, they are willing to give everything in order for a small chance at something. They are truly smart, because they know that if they give everything, it just might work, and if it works, money and job security and possibly immortality are theirs.

Without having to pause and think, how many of us could name more than 5 of the women who raced the 2008 Olympic RR?

Too easy? OK - here's a toughy... name 10 women who raced in the last Olympics - or in one of the womens protours...

I bet if most of us thought about the men's RR or one of the pro-tours, we could find 20 mens names with less effort than it took to find 5-10 womens names?

Why? Because men have courage. They will take risks. They will lay everything on the line, and come back tomorrow and do it again...

Why do women at this level lack courage? How do they learn it and demonstrate it? When will see it from more than just a handful of our top female representatives?

[pyxichick]

This is from a young woman who used to race for Velo Bella when she was an exchange student in the US. Now she's a pro racer in Europe and was the only woman in the road race representing Belgium.

She has done quite well in the European pro races. Here's her take on the Olympic road race, which she posted to a VB site:

I am back in belgium since yesterday from Beijing! It was a great experience although the race itself was horrible. If there is one thing that i can't stand, it's cold and rain, hypothermia is pretty common for me in such conditions...and yeah it was there again...You train all year long on conditions of extreme humidity and hot weather and then this is what you get! I performed way underneath my abilities, normally I climb way faster, but anyway...it happened and there is nothing i can do about it! One world...one dream was pretty much one nightmare :-) The first 80km were flat and the pace in the peloton wasn't really high. Then we came on a local circuit of 24km, with 10.5km climbing, normally really my thing! We had to do this lap 2 times and then we finished at the bottom of the climb. Once we started climbing, my legs blocked right away due to the rain and coldness and I felt right away that this wasn't gonna be my day. I managed to stay in the group untill the top of the first climb, but then we had to go down and my body started shaking from the cold and the rain. My muscles cramped up...We started climbing again and I get dropped pretty early. I first was in a group, but then the group broke and I was left behind with 3 other girls...It was pooring so much that I didn't even see that our group broke; all I could see was the rear wheel from one girl in front of me, no further! It was like we were riding our bikes in a river! Puddles 30cm deep, unbelievable! They said the conditions in Beijing would be extreme...well this was extreme!