Oh, PLEASE NOOOOOO...............

[Flybye]

Well, we have a puppy or two left to sale, :( :), and a potential buyer was considering breeding a Weimaraner with a Standard Poodle...............

Warning, it's ugly............

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/weimardoodle.htm

I was relieved that she walked away without one of our puppies.

What do you think of all this designer dog business? Anything you have seen that has been particularly cute? The weimardoodle sure doesn't do anything to promote cross breeding.

[Blueberry]

Ummm....

On soapbox---

I completely respect people who breed for the betterment of the breed. I get that, and I have a very well bred golden retriever. And 2 mutt cats. But WHY IN THE WORLD would you intentionally cross breed dogs, creating mutts with unknown temperaments and then sell them. And WHY would people BUY them?? I just don't get it?? How are they different from the shelter mutts??

*shakes head*

Hope I haven't offended - it just really boggles my mind. Flybye - did you sell with limited registrations for pets, to make sure folks didn't just "decide" to have a litter? Just curious....Your pups are beautiful, by the way:)

CA

CA

[KnottedYet]

When I hear about custom made mutts, I think about all the natural mutts at the animal shelter where I got my mystery-dog.

A lot of those critters get euthanized.

There just aren't enough homes for them all.

I'm not going to judge someone for having a custom mutt, but I will mourn for those puppies who didn't get adopted from the pound. (I know that at least one I spent time with was euthanized, and it hit me pretty hard)

ETA: my ex and his wife are puppy-raisers for a service dog organization. Those dogs are intentionally bred mutts. (bred for temperment, not registered breed) I have no problem at all with that kind of mutt breeding, those dogs are not pets and don't horn any shelter-dogs out of a home.

[Flybye]

Flybye - did you sell with limited registrations for pets, to make sure folks didn't just "decide" to have a litter? Just curious....
CA



For the most part, yes. There was only one family interested in breeding. We are one of the families that just decided to have a litter ourselves. We love the breed, too. I have been really happy with all of the homes that we have sold pups to so far. First impressions don't make the book, but the covers all seemed pretty great! I have had confirmation that several of them have signed up for puppy kindergarten with the trainer that I recommended. That makes me happy, too.

I agree with your soapbox and hope it is only a phase. I guess, though, that in all fairness, the Weimaraner breed is a cross between a couple of mystery dogs, so something potentially fantastic could come out of all of this.

[makbike]

I am just amazed that people will pay big bucks for the designer mutts. They are just that, mutts. Why not go to the local Humane Society, pound, etc and adapt an animal that might have just a few days to live? Then, take the extra money and donate it to the rescue organization that was kind enough to care for it. Just my personal thoughts.

[Flur]

I have to say I think they're really cute! :eek::o:)

That said, I also can't stand the designer dog trend. I don't see the point. But I suppose to each his own...

[TsPoet]

First: I have 2 rescue mutts - both with baggage from the 2 years before I got them (not that I'm perfect), so I agree and practice what I preach.
But...
Lots of these designer mutts are intended to have a purpose. Almost all (all?) poodle mixes are designed to be more hypoallergenic, for example. Many are intended on being hardier/healthier due to diluting out breed-specific ailments. For example, a puggle is a beagle pug cross. It is intended to create a dog with a pug-like temperament, but with beagle-added health. Pugs can't handle ranges in temperature at all, and beagles can. On the other hand, beagles can be willful and hard to manage. The puggle seems to be a very successful designer dog.
I would love a puggle - I think pugs are cute and generally have wonderful temperaments, but I want a dog that can go hiking with me and can do agility.
I won't buy a puggle because there are several rescue dogs available at any given time that can go hiking with me and maybe do agility, depending on the complete rolling of the dice and the temperament I end up getting.
So far one of my two mutts is brilliant at agility, but we can't compete because he is fear aggressive and I can't guarantee he won't bite the judge and my other rescue has turned out to be extremely soft and scares too easily, so doesn't perform well under pressure. I love them both and will continue to do agility as long as we are all having fun and I wouldn't trade either of them.
So, my next dog will be.... a rescue mutt, and I'm going to name it Peeves - so I can tell everyone it's my pet, Peeves. But, hopefully that won't be for a very longtime as my two are happy and healthy.

Also, all current breeds were once designer mixed dogs.

[Running Mommy]

Our little Jack is a rescue mutt, got him last November and just love the little bugger. He's some kind of terrier mix. He actually looks like a Scotty/ Schnauzer mix. Tho he acts a lot like a jack russell.
All I know is that he's one fab little dude. He was a stray, and I can't imagine how anyone would either dump him (happens alot here in Phoenix) or not come looking for him once he went missing.
He has his faults, like systematically eating our family room sofa, and eating the chamois out of expensive bike shorts, but we love him nonetheless.
In fact he loves other dogs, so we are considering taking him down to the shelter to pick up a brother or sister.

[sundial]

Flye, have you considered for future litters to have pediatric spays/neutering? That way you can control your lines and discourage undesirables from buying one of your pups.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

I am just amazed that people will pay big bucks for the designer mutts. They are just that, mutts. Why not go to the local Humane Society, pound, etc and adapt an animal that might have just a few days to live? Then, take the extra money and donate it to the rescue organization that was kind enough to care for it. Just my personal thoughts.

Exactly.

[rachael24]

LOL That picture is hideous on several levels. Why would someone do such a thing???

[fastdogs]

unfortunately, many people have a fairy tale idea of what cross breeding will do- all to often you get the worst of both breeds. Pugs have breathing problems and eye problems, and often patellar problems. Beagles are prone to epilepsy and eye problems. Both have a tendency towards obesity, and beagles have that famous hound temperament- different priorities than us for training. In an ideal world you'd get only the good stuff from each side, in the real world too often you get the bad.
With "doodle" crosses, the mills never mention that since the hair doesn't shed like regular dogs, you, the owner, have to groom it and keep it groomed.
I have a whippet I've been planning to breed for years. I just haven't gotten to the point where I could keep the entire litter if necessary (if reservations backed out) and the responsibility of taking the pups back, regardless of age, at any time. It's a ton of responsibility to take on-
vickie

[tulip]

A mutt is a mutt. I just don't understand why people create new dogs--mutt or purebred--when there are so many out there already, and so many die.

[Aggie_Ama]

I think the dogs are cute but they look like the local stray in my neighborhood!

I have two purebreds, one is a rescue. The first one was purchased out of necessity, the local pounds wouldn't adopt to college kids and I also needed to be assured the dog would not go over 20 lbs for my apartment. You know though my schnauzer is just as unpredictable as any mutt. I will probably never have another purebred, we always had pound puppies and had some great dogs.

The idea of paying for a "designer dog" is nonsense. I saw "Schnoodles" the other day for $600! :eek: Seems like when I was growing up and someone's purebred got knocked up by a non-purebred they gave the puppies away. Now they market them. And it isn't so simple as they will have the good parts of one breed, some do but some don't.

Playing devil's advocate, but weren't most purebreds as we know them today developed through cross breeding?

[Tuckervill]

The puppies are cute but the adult has a face only a mother could love.

I have a dog that might have been a designer-mix. She's definitely part Golden Retriever, and probably part Airedale. She turned out cute with a fuzzy nose, shorter hair, and with a great Golden personality. She was a stray so we have no way of knowing what kind of dog she really is, other than Golden which is very obvious. But some people who see her for the first time think wire-haired terrier of some kind.

My friend has a dog who she knows is a Poodle/Golden Retriever mix. We don't know if it was an accident or intentional. He's huge, black and curly, but acts just like a Golden. Lucky. Poodles are great dogs, too.

What annoys me the MOST about the Weimarwhatever is that it shouldn't be Doodle, but Poodle! Weimarpoodle!!! There's no D in weimariener and only one in poodle! Labradoodle, I get. Weimardoodle. NOPE.

Karen

[rij73]

It is refreshing to have so many people agreeing with my outlook on this. I think the designer dog trend is completely unethical. Disgusting, really. I will admit to being militant in my views about animals, so like I said, it's a relief that so many of you also believe in rescues over purchasing a dog.

I don't think animals of any kind are a commodity to be bought and sold at all, though.

[TsPoet]

It is refreshing to have so many people agreeing with my outlook on this. I think the designer dog trend is completely unethical.
I don't think animals of any kind are a commodity to be bought and sold at all, though.

I think that's a little strong. But, I don't totally disagree. I do, however, think cloning pets is unethical and disgusting
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/southkorea/2506017/Scientists-clone-five-puppies-from-dead-pet-for-25000.html

[TxDoc]

Well, we have a puppy or two left to sale, :( :), and a potential buyer was considering breeding a Weimaraner with a Standard Poodle...............
Warning, it's ugly............
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/weimardoodle.htm
I was relieved that she walked away without one of our puppies.
What do you think of all this designer dog business? Anything you have seen that has been particularly cute? The weimardoodle sure doesn't do anything to promote cross breeding.

Oh My God!!! That is UGLY!
What is it with all this cross-breeding nowadays? I really do not understand this at all...

[ttaylor508]

Lots of these designer mutts are intended to have a purpose. Almost all (all?) poodle mixes are designed to be more hypoallergenic, for example. Many are intended on being hardier/healthier due to diluting out breed-specific ailments.

Like TSPoet posted here, there were specific reasons to create some designer dogs. From Wikipedia: "The Labradoodle was first deliberately bred in 1989, when Australian breeder Wally Conron first crossed the Labrador Retriever and Standard Poodle for Guide Dogs Victoria.[1]. His aim was to combine the low-shed coat of the Poodle with the gentleness and trainability of the Labrador. This provided a guide dog for the blind with less shedding, and hence more suitable for people with allergies to fur and dander. Today, Labradoodles are often used as Guide dogs, Assistance dogs, and Therapy dogs."

So I think there is a purpose to some of these designer dogs, not just a "trendy thing". I know a few people who have labradoodles because they were highly allergic to pet dander. So I think the original intentions of some of these breeders was to create a breed that had a specific purpose as stated above.

[maillotpois]

I have a Labradoofus.

Actually, now I have two. :rolleyes:

[tulip]

Don't Portuguese Water Dogs already fulfill the function of Labrodoodles? They don't shed, they fetch, and they swim. I don't know if they make good guide dogs, though. When I worked with a guide dog outfit in France, I saw mostly goldens and German shepherds.

Mutts can make fine guide dogs, drug dogs, cadaver dogs, bomb dogs, too. But you can't breed them to be so, some just have the right stuff, and there's no easy money in pound dogs like there is in breeding operations.

[Flur]

Lots of these designer mutts are intended to have a purpose. Almost all (all?) poodle mixes are designed to be more hypoallergenic, for example.

Now this is MY pet peeve! (No harm meant towards TsPoet here) :) This is one of the biggest misconceptions about these designer dogs. There is no such thing as a hypoallergenic dog. As a general rule (there ARE exceptions), most people are allergic to dander, not fur. Since all dogs (and cats, and humans) produce dander, shedding is not a determinant in whether a person will be allergic. The determinant is whether the person is allergic to that particular breed's dander. I, personally, am extremely allergic to poodles. I can't be in a room with one for more than a few minutes without allergy meds, and will be overwhelmed with wheezing in under an hour even with meds. And it just kills me when people act like it's impossible, their dog is "hypoallergenic". < ... Steps off soap box>

[tennisgirl43]

I think the designer mutt fad is just crazy. I was at a pet store the other day (I like to go in and play with the poor babies!) and all the dogs were something-or-other-doodles, or "a-poos". And the prices were outrageous. I think it demeans the various breeds and the work breeders have done through the years to better each one. Yeah, they are cute, often, but I'm with everyone else that says, if you want a mixed breed, go to the local shelter or rescue and find one. If you want a specific breed, go to a reputable breeder, and for goodness sakes, have your pup spayed/neutered!

Ok. I'm off my soapbox now. You know how opinions are! lol! Sorry if I offended anyone!

[wackyjacky1]

I'm pretty neutral about deliberately mixing breeds...it doesn't really bother me. A family in my neighborhood has a Labradoodle. It's one of the cutest, sweetest dogs I've ever met, so I guess I can see the appeal of having one.

[Gemma]

On soapbox---

I completely respect people who breed for the betterment of the breed. I get that, and I have a very well bred golden retriever. And 2 mutt cats. But WHY IN THE WORLD would you intentionally cross breed dogs, creating mutts with unknown temperaments and then sell them. And WHY would people BUY them?? I just don't get it?? How are they different from the shelter mutts??*shakes head*

Climbing on to my own particular soapbox.....

Hybrid "Designer Dog" sales are now outstripping those of purebreds. I think this is largely because ALL the scientific research shows mutts live longer and healthier lives than purebreds.

Most people just want a happy, healthy family pet. Say “Boxer” and vets think heart disease; say “Bernese Mountain Dog” and they think cancer. The incidence and severity of inherited diseases in purebred dogs increases every year, and yet traditional breeders continue with outdated practices (like inbreeding and line breeding) that continuously limit genetic diversity.

In addition, changing fashions and fads in the show ring have caused some purebred breeders to exaggerate physical characteristics that make dogs more susceptible to health problems problems (bulging eyes in Pekingese, elongated backs in Dachshunds etc).

However, hybrid "Designer Dogs", provide the best of both worlds, purebreds and mutts: the ability to carefully select the parent dogs for health and temperament, and test for inherited diseases (like purebreds); and the increased health and longevity provided by genetic diversity (like mutts).

Certainly you need to be careful. There are puppy mills that have jumped on to the “Designer Dog” band wagon purely to make a profit.

However, there are also many dedicated hybrid breeders whose main aim is to produce healthy dogs, without the genetic problems that plague many purebreds. They carefully select the breeds they use, and test the parent dogs for any possible inherited problems. They aren't trying to produce a particular "look", or compete with purebreds - these breeders simply want to provide healthy, happy family pets.

There's a good article on the subject (written by a purebred breeder) at http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/main.jhtml?xml=/health/2007/03/07/ftcrufts107.xml

I hope I haven't offended anyone, and I'll climb down now :)

Gem

[nancielle]

While I'm not into designer dogs, I think the Weimardoodle in the picture is kind of cute in a pathetic way. Look at his face. He's got a "love me anyway" look going on.

A friend of mine bought a labradoodle 4 years ago. Danger Dog (name changed to protect the guilty). She failed obedience school a couple of times. My friend would come into work black & blue from the dog "playfully" attacking her. Made numerous trips to the vet because the dog ate her clothing (underwear, socks, etc.) :eek: Wouldn't walk on a leash. Wouldn't come when called. My friend states the dog is getting better but...4 years is a long time to wait. (Am not implying that Danger Dog is indicative of the breed.)

[Possegal]

I swear I saw a dog that looked JUST LIKE THAT ONE in the kitty/puppy ER last night. Oh yes, that's right, fun way to spend your Tuesday evening. Though not quite as fun as watching your cat have a seizure. OY!

But there was a dog in the waiting room that looked just like that. My niece and I looked at each other, each with the "what the heck is that" look on our faces, then we both just cracked up. I thought he was kinda cute though. (no one hit me for that, I had a rough day! :) )

[latelatebloomer]

I wouldn't consider a "designer dog" - but wait..to 'fess up, one of the dearest dogs of my life was the shepherd/collie mix who helped raise me and my bro for 16 years. After losing our rescued white shepherd to cancer way too early, I've had the urge to return to the hybrid vigor and splendid temperament of that mix. Is that the same as a "designer dog?" Good god, Fella was so proud of his blue-collar status!

[Gemma]

Now this is MY pet peeve! (No harm meant towards TsPoet here) :) This is one of the biggest misconceptions about these designer dogs. There is no such thing as a hypoallergenic dog. As a general rule (there ARE exceptions), most people are allergic to dander, not fur. Since all dogs (and cats, and humans) produce dander, shedding is not a determinant in whether a person will be allergic. The determinant is whether the person is allergic to that particular breed's dander. I, personally, am extremely allergic to poodles. I can't be in a room with one for more than a few minutes without allergy meds, and will be overwhelmed with wheezing in under an hour even with meds. And it just kills me when people act like it's impossible, their dog is "hypoallergenic". < ... Steps off soap box>
You're right - there is no such thing as a "Hypoallergenic Dog". However, less hair shedding means less dander too, so even people with dander alergies are generally less sensitive to low shedding dogs (like Poodles) than to higher shedding dogs (like Labs).

Gem

[Flur]

You're right - there is no such thing as a "Hypoallergenic Dog". However, less hair shedding means less dander too, so even people with dander alergies are generally less sensitive to low shedding dogs (like Poodles) than to higher shedding dogs (like Labs).

Actually less shedding does not equal less dander. The dander sheds from the dog independent of the fur. It's just dead skin cells, same as we humans shed.

Give me a fur shedder any day of the week! Long hair, short hair, coat-blowers, they're all good. I only have allergies with "hypo" dogs!

[Gemma]

Actually less shedding does not equal less dander. The dander sheds from the dog independent of the fur. It's just dead skin cells, same as we humans shed.

Give me a fur shedder any day of the week! Long hair, short hair, coat-blowers, they're all good. I only have allergies with "hypo" dogs!
There is a link between the rate of shedding and the production of dander in dogs. Research has shown that improvements in diet can also reduce the shedding of both hair and skin cells (ie dander).

Current thinking seems to be that the less disruption to the dermis (ie from hair loss, dryness, scratching etc), the lower the rate of dander production. My husband is also dog allergic, and I love dogs, so this is an area of some interest to me (I'd hate to have to give him up ;))

Other studies have a shown that some individuals appear to have breed specific allergies (ie caused by specific allergens, & not necessarily related to the overall rate of shedding and/or dander produced), and perhaps that's the case in your instance.

Gem

[KnottedYet]

My friend's dog is allergic to HER. The dog is allergic to people dander!

When I dog-sit him, I give him his Benadryl and his weekly allergy shot, and I just marvel at the way the tables turned for this doggie. :eek:

[OakLeaf]

Both of our stray mutts looked to be a cross between two purebreds: a Greyhound/Dalmatian (incredibly hyper, shed like a year-round blizzard, and very clingy-timid-needy which probably had more to do with his experiences before we found him than with his temperament); and a Lab/Aussie (scary smart, very opinionated, playful and affectionate without being overbearing, really the closest to a "normal" dog of any of our four).

Not encouraging anyone to breed EITHER of these on purpose. Man, you don't even need to go to a shelter. Just walk down the street, pick up a friendly stray who's obviously been on the street for a while, post a couple of posters or want ads "just to be sure," and keep the dog when no one answers them.

The one "Heinz 57" we had, had none of the vaunted hybrid vigor. Allergic to everything, aged younger than any of them, arthritis in multiple joints, and eventually died from an autoimmune blood disorder :(

[OakLeaf]

My friend's dog is allergic to HER. The dog is allergic to people dander!

When I dog-sit him, I give him his Benadryl and his weekly allergy shot, and I just marvel at the way the tables turned for this doggie. :eek:

I want to know where the vet gets "people serum"! Maybe I need my allergist to put some of that in my shot! :p

[Jolt]

While I can understand some of the reasons behind the "designer mutts" (mutts tend to be healthier, the whole non-shedding thing) the trend still seems a little silly to me, even though some of the dogs are pretty cute! Personally, I'd much rather pick out a dog from a shelter since there are plenty of nice ones there that would make great companions. What bugs me more is some of the stuff Gemma mentioned earlier about breeding for traits that end up creating health problems (back problems in dachshunds, the squished faces in pugs, bulldogs etc. that result in breathing problems, the sloped back ends on German Shepherds, etc.). Why would you deliberately breed animals that are likely to be unhealthy due to their "fashionable" physical characteristics? Now THAT is stupid--it's bad for the dogs and also for the people who have them as pets and have to watch them suffer. There needs to be some moderation in breeding for fashion/show. I think the whole dog show thing goes too far. If I understand correctly, dog shows were originally a way to help pick dogs for breeding that would be able to do their specific jobs and be healthy, rather than just for fashion like they are now.

[fastdogs]

I'm here in missouri, the puppy mill capital of the world.
I can say for a fact that MOST of the breeders of these designer dogs in fact DO NOT health or temprament test breeding stock, and the reason for the breeding has nothing to do with trying to get the best of both worlds.
It's all about unique breeds and breed names. Since they aren't registered (unless it's with one of the mill-specific "registries"), they don't even have to start with registered breeding stock.
Since many of the mills specialize in small dogs, now they are getting on the bandwagon by crossing those breeds for designer breeds. Designed for nothing but making money. They may make up reasons for the cross, after the fact, but it really has nothing to do with why they did the cross in the first place. It's like they are all trying to be the first to come up with the most unusual cross.
There, that's MY soapbox.
vickie

[Flur]

Since many of the mills specialize in small dogs, now they are getting on the bandwagon by crossing those breeds for designer breeds.

I've noticed a "breed them smaller" trend with dachshunds, where breeders are breeding solely for size and selling them as "micro minis", or crossing them with chihuahuas to make "chiweenies". What these breeders are NOT telling people is that the smaller the dachshund the more fragile and the more careful you have to be about their backs. And unless these breeders are also breeding for top health (doubtful) they're not ensuring that the dogs they breed don't have a family history of back issues. For a while there was a trend to breed them for length - glad that's gone!

[horsemom]

I have to jump in on this discussion. I groom dogs for a living, and used to be a cruelty investigator, so I am more than familiar with puppy mills. I LOVE Goldens and Standard Poodles--they are my two most favorite purebreds. When I first heard of the cross, I thought it would be the perfect type, even though I am not a fan of dog breeding in general.

I have met only a couple goldendoodles or labradoodles that I would own (and I LOVE dogs). Most of the ones we see in our shop (there are at least 10 or 15 that come in regularly) are NUTS - very hyperactive and some are aggressive. They possess neither the good nature of the goldens or the intelligence of the standard poo. AND, they shed like any other dog.

Most of my clients who got them were misled in the amount of grooming they would require. Besides shedding, most of them get mats if they are not groomed regularly. Once they have mats, they need to be shaved, and that freaks some of these people out - they were not told that it could happen that way. They were led to believe that the dogs would not shed, and equated that to not being trimmed or shaved.

Most of the people that got this particular designer dog, are not happy with either the temperment or the haircoat---something that was fairly predictable in the purebreds they came from.

Laura

[Tuckervill]

My friend with the Golden/Poodle mix does dog rescue and rescued this dog, too. She had an Anatolian shepherd before that, so she was used to that kind of hair! But you're right, her Charlie is a big goofball and if not for her intelligent and rigorous training, he would be entirely too hard to handle.

Karen

[Dogmama]

We have a couple of Goldendoodles in for training. They are dull-normal at best.

[Gemma]

What bugs me more is some of the stuff Gemma mentioned earlier about breeding for traits that end up creating health problems (back problems in dachshunds, the squished faces in pugs, bulldogs etc. that result in breathing problems, the sloped back ends on German Shepherds, etc.). Why would you deliberately breed animals that are likely to be unhealthy due to their "fashionable" physical characteristics? Now THAT is stupid--it's bad for the dogs and also for the people who have them as pets and have to watch them suffer. There needs to be some moderation in breeding for fashion/show. I think the whole dog show thing goes too far. If I understand correctly, dog shows were originally a way to help pick dogs for breeding that would be able to do their specific jobs and be healthy, rather than just for fashion like they are now.

I totally agree. There is a program about the health problems that have been bred into pedigree dogs on the BBC today:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2583235/BBC-may-cut-Crufts-over-disease-riddled-pedigree-breeds.html

Here's some link to excerpts:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7569521.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7569592.stm

Gemma