Yielding on Trails

[Paradox]

Hi all,

So went for another newbie mountain bike ride yesterday on a fairly popular "beginner" trail in Boulder. There were about 5 sections with rocks which I walked over, but the rest I rode (slowly). So here is my question: what do you all do when coming up behind a newbie mountain biker on a narrow trail? I had several people suddenly appear behind me when I stopped to walk over the rock sections or right when I was trying to get going again on my bike. They came up quite fast (as this is considered an easy trail for most) and it seemed like they were annoyed that I was going so slow and/or stopped. :eek: Twice I got as far off the narrow trail (steep incline on one side, drop off on the other) as I could, one time I slipped on the steep embankment trying to get over (and got several splinters in my hand when I caught myself), apologizing profusely each time for my ineptness. The other time I was riding so I sped up as fast as I could for a section until I realized the dude was still on my back tire and I reached a wider spot where I could pull off. One gal thanked me for getting out of her way, the other (men) didn't say anything. They didn't even announce their presence behind me as we are supposed to do when encountering a hiker (if I was off my bike I guess I was a hiker?).

Is the attitude when coming up on someone who is not as fast as you on the trail the same as how most people feel when coming up on a car in the left lane of the highway going 20 mph below the speed limit? Are they thinking, "you shouldn't be on the (trail) you f***ing moron"? :mad:

I am well aware of the "mountain bikers yield to everyone else" on multi-use trails, and I always stop and pull off the trail for hikers or equestrians (of course the hikers usually get out of the way even though bikes are supposed to yield to them). I also know to yield to uphill mountain bike traffic when going down - although to tell the truth I'm so slow going uphill I usually stop and let the person going down go by. But what is the protocol for when faster mountain bikers approach slower mountain bikers going the same direction on a narrow trail? I guess since I used to hike a lot my instinct is to jump out of the way quickly and at all costs before I get run over by anything/one going faster than me.

[bike4ever]

My first suggestion is to review the IMBA rules of the trail:

1. Ride On Open Trails Only.

Respect trail and road closures (ask if uncertain); avoid trespassing on private land; obtain permits or other authorization as may be required. Federal and state Wilderness areas are closed to cycling. The way you ride will influence trail management decisions and policies.

2. Leave No Trace.

Be sensitive to the dirt beneath you. Recognize different types of soils and trail construction; practice low-impact cycling. Wet and muddy trails are more vulnerable to damage. When the trailbed is soft, consider other riding options. This also means staying on existing trails and not creating new ones. Don't cut switchbacks. Be sure to pack out at least as much as you pack in.

3. Control Your Bicycle!

Inattention for even a second can cause problems. Obey all bicycle speed regulations and recommendations.

4. Always Yield Trail.

Let your fellow trail users know you're coming. A friendly greeting or bell is considerate and works well; don't startle others. Show your respect when passing by slowing to a walking pace or even stopping. Anticipate other trail users around corners or in blind spots. Yielding means slow down, establish communication, be prepared to stop if necessary and pass safely.

5. Never Scare Animals.

All animals are startled by an unannounced approach, a sudden movement, or a loud noise. This can be dangerous for you, others, and the animals. Give animals extra room and time to adjust to you. When passing horses use special care and follow directions from the horseback riders (ask if uncertain). Running cattle and disturbing wildlife is a serious offense. Leave gates as you found them, or as marked.

6. Plan Ahead.

Know your equipment, your ability, and the area in which you are riding -- and prepare accordingly. Be self-sufficient at all times, keep your equipment in good repair, and carry necessary supplies for changes in weather or other conditions. A well-executed trip is a satisfaction to you and not a burden to others. Always wear a helmet and appropriate safety gear.


I think rule number 4 answers your question. I always announce myself when coming up on other riders/hikers. I try very hard not to startle them since I know I can get startled easily. I do believe that the women I see on the trail are more friendly than then men who blow by without any sort of grunt.

[Paradox]

My first suggestion is to review the IMBA rules of the trail:

4. Always Yield Trail.

Let your fellow trail users know you're coming. A friendly greeting or bell is considerate and works well; don't startle others. Show your respect when passing by slowing to a walking pace or even stopping. Anticipate other trail users around corners or in blind spots. Yielding means slow down, establish communication, be prepared to stop if necessary and pass safely.

I think rule number 4 answers your question. I always announce myself when coming up on other riders/hikers. I try very hard not to startle them since I know I can get startled easily. I do believe that the women I see on the trail are more friendly than then men who blow by without any sort of grunt.

Yes, but I don't think most mtn bikers think this applies to bike-bike conflicts. It's like beginners really don't have a place to ride or learn, because if you go ride any trail with other riders, they don't think you should be there if you aren't at the expert level yet. Not once have I encountered a newbie that was slower than me while riding, which means I must be really slow. :eek:

[han-grrl]

My own opinions on the matter - and there are unfortunately a lot of jerks out there -

if you are hung up on a trail - move out of the way best you can to let people pass...say hello, ask if there is any particular line they need...

speaking of lines through a section, where you are, is likely a preferred line, so best to move off that line to allow people to pass.

We all need to commnunicate, unfortunately many people are caught up in their own worlds, and forget they are sharing, if they are "mad" just apologize for being in the way...nicely...even smiling, and wish them a great ride.

In theory if you are climbing, and some is approaching descending, you shoud have the rigt of way, but again, thats in theory, and there are meanies out there.

my own advice - be polite and move to the less used part of the trail when someone is passing, because likely you are on the line they want.

smile

[SadieKate]

Doesn't matter whether they are faster or not, it's a shared use trail and everyone should be riding for the conditions (which includes other users) and their own skills. If you are riding and can't move over to let them pass, just yell that you'll move as as soon as possible. If you are walking, get out of their way as soon as possible. Yield to uphill traffic but if someone is in the middle of a technical rocky downhill, prudence may dictate that you stop. It's a judgment call for everyone's safety.

Under no conditions should you try to get off a trail if it is not safe (like a cliff edge).

Relax and just tell them you'll do what you can when you can. If they're speeding around a blind corner and out of control -- their problem not yours.

One day, some unknown guy might even say "thanks, sweetheart" Made me laugh all day. :D

[singletrackmind]

They should be polite about passing. You shouldn't feel apologetic that you don't ride everything yet or that you are 'slow'. So long as you are considerate then don't let the rude ones get to you, they weren't always fast, either. Some obstacles work better taken at speed so that may be part of some riders' deal (they'll live), uphill mostly has right of way but sharing and working with trail conditions is what it's about.


I did inadvertently scare a newer rider on the whoop-dis on Monarch Crest several years ago. Followed her at a distance and passed when I had several feet between us to do so, announcing myself well in advance and several times. I guess she was so white-knuckle on the downhill she was really concentrating on that and I startled her. She let me have it and boy, did I ever feel really bad.
Point of the whole long drawn out story is try to remember to listen to what's happening around you, it's really easy to zone in on what you're doing and forget about everything else....actually, I still sometimes do that and they surprise me too, every once in awhile. :o

[bike4ever]

Paradox - You have the same right to the trail as the expert riders. They were beginners once also - they just forgot. I agree with everyone in that if you can safely pull off the trail, then let them pass. If they have to wait, it helps them learn patience.

I was doing a women's ride once a couple of years ago. We were on a local paved trail (Creve Coeur park). Another lady and myself were slowly coming up on a woman on a hybrid. She didn't look very stable. We announced ourselves many times. My friend went by and the woman got very shaky. I came next, again calmly announcing myself. As I went by, the woman lost it. She fell over down a small bank into a bed of rocks. We both immediately went to her aid. My friend took care of her boo boo's and I adjusted her bike.

The bummer about her was that this was her first ride on this new bike. Her husband had brought her to the trail and left her. She was also on the wrong style bike - she should have been on a comfort bike which would have given her more stability.

[atombessy]

I agree with what others have said, I'm sorry you encountered unfriendly people on the trail! I always try to say "hi" to anyone who's around me, even if behind, that'll help establish communication even if they're being quiet and not announcing themselves. I do think that you should yield to faster riders where appropriate, but they should have no issue stopping for you too if you're working on a tricky section (even if it's an easy section for them!).

the only time i was really buzzed by another rider was actually on a relatively easy trail, i was coming up a climb that had some jumps on it, and he was FLYING down it and made absolutely no effort to stop. My local trail is quite technical and I think it helps people be more aware of their surroundings, because I'll have to say normally i find people quite respectful!

good luck in anycase!

[Paradox]

Thanks all.

I know you are right, that others should respect that I am not as skilled as they are on the bike, and not get annoyed that I may be disrupting their "flow" or time to get around the loop.

Like someone said, I think the women are friendlier than the men.

There is a primarily male mountain biking board for the CO Front Range that I sometimes read (but don't post on) and those guys really seem to have attitudes about others in their way. Like if they don't do the trail 2 seconds faster than they did the last time their whole world is ruined. There was a discussion primarily involving trail conflicts with hikers, and some were joking that they were going to get air horns on their bikes so the "b*tchs" who were hiking would get out of their way. Yes, I know they were joking...

I read all that and then go out on a trail and think that some a-hole guy is going to start screaming at me if I don't jump out of his way immediately, even when I'm on a bike too. Makes me want to stop riding. :( But these are the people that contribute to the bike bans in certain parks, so they are really ruining it for the rest of us.

[ima_bleeder]

People can be kind of jerky. My suggestion is to smile in the face of their annoyance. Don't let their annoyance ruin your ride ... that kind of attitude is a reflection of them, not a reflection of you or your riding ability. And if they're on an "easy" trail, they should be expecting to come across beginner riders, and should be in the frame of mind to deal with that.

However, that being said, I have ridden with a lot of beginner riders who seem to be unaware that they're blocking riders coming up behind them. When it's safe, and only when it's safe, get out of the line as quickly as possibly. It's a total bummer to have to come to a complete stop in the middle of a section of trail that requires some momentum, because the beginner in front of you is stopped or walking their bike right down the middle of the trail.

[TahoeDirtGirl]

Everybody had to start somewhere. How are you supposed to learn a trail if you can't well...learn it??

I have had similar experiences such as yours. But much more satisfying. One that comes to mind is when I first started riding and was cranking up to the Flume Trail and there was a band of people that passed me. A woman said to me, sort of patronizingly "You're doing great, you'll make it up this hill...someday..." . Then all the people in the group laughed in unison...and one guy said "good luck". Well that kinda rubbed me the wrong way. That's a pretty extreme example, but the story doesn't end there!

I got to the Flume Trail which is just a great ride in Tahoe, but often crowded, and THERE THEY WERE blocking the trail. One side is a drop off the other is the side of the mountain. I stopped because I had no idea what to tell them. One of the guys I was riding with told them to keep riding and the woman that couldn't keep her comments to herself was freaking out because of the cliff. I don't know where the brass ones came from on me, but I just go "well let me ride by". Nothing was sweeter than riding by this woman and saying "have a nice ride". Very very sweet.

Just keep in mind one day you'll be the one bombing down those trails. As for the bozos with designs on airhorns, well, you get them everywhere. Usually they are fast but will never get any admiration for their ability to teach others or lead by example. And the only way they get any attention is bragging about their times because no one really cares otherwise.

I haven't had the chance to do a women's ride. I have ridden with women, one of my heroes that taught me how to ride is female...Maybe someday...

[lph]

Terrific story, Tahoe :D

I was just thinking - that I sometimes come around corners fast and startle people in front of me, but I can stop in time and my intense look is not one of annoyance, I'm just concentrating on not wiping out ;) So maybe those people suddenly appearing behind you, or swooping past without a sound aren't being arrogant, they might just need all their focus to get through the section.