Need help on bike size!!!

[mountainpics]

I'm getting my girlfriend an Orbea Diva (I think)...She has an inseam of 33.5 - is 5'9" and has a short torso. According to Competitive Cyclist's fit calculator, she needs about a 515-520mm top tube and a longish seat tube (56 or so). I want to get her a size 53 Diva (good top tube length for her at 525mm), but I'm concerned that her seat will be high in relation to the top of the bars with her longish legs (she's not a racer and doesn't necessarily wanna ride with a flat back). I am buying the frame and a Campy Chorus Carbon group, so I can leave the steerer tube kinda long and use a stem that rises, but I don't know - seems my only other option for a longer seat tube would be the 54 Orca, but that has a 550mm top tube - too long. Any advice??? Is there a company who makes WOMEN's frames who DON'T assume that WOMAN = SHORT?? Isn't it kinda common for women to have long legs and a shorter torso...Where is a frame that has a short top tube and longer seat tube?

[VeloVT]

Hmmm... are you sure you got the measurements right for the calculator? I'm 5'6", 31.5" inseam, and my bike, which is a very comfortable fit right now, has a 51.5 cm tt -- but I'm running a 120mm stem (-6 deg rise) and maybe could go a bit longer still... I'd be surprised if someone 5'9", even with a short torso, would fit on a bike this size...

Oh, that's the bike in question in my avatar, by the way... you can see even in such a small picture that it's quite compact and, well, small...

[ilima]

First off--you rock. Second, an Orbea may just not be the right bike for her. The 53cm Diva sounds a bit short for her height, although even people of the same dimensions may prefer different positions.

I think the 54cm Orca would be too big. One mitigating factor of the Diva is that the steeper seat tube angle will have the result of her needing to place her saddle further back to get the same seat position relative to the bottom bracket than a bike with a slacker STA (e.g., Orca).

One effect of having a 'smaller' bike is that there is more saddle to bar drop than with a bigger one. You can stack a bunch of spacers under the bars, but too many looks ugly.

For the kind of money you're going to spend, you really need to have your GF ride some bikes & get fit first. That would be my advice; try the Diva and have her try a Madone WSD in a 54cm (53cm TT).

Also, don't forget looks ARE important. We like to ride purty bikes & your and her definition of purty may be different.

[mountainpics]

First off--you rock. Second, an Orbea may just not be the right bike for her. The 53cm Diva sounds a bit short for her height, although even people of the same dimensions may prefer different positions.

I think the 54cm Orca would be too big. One mitigating factor of the Diva is that the steeper seat tube angle will have the result of her needing to place her saddle further back to get the same seat position relative to the bottom bracket than a bike with a slacker STA (e.g., Orca).

One effect of having a 'smaller' bike is that there is more saddle to bar drop than with a bigger one. You can stack a bunch of spacers under the bars, but too many looks ugly.

For the kind of money you're going to spend, you really need to have your GF ride some bikes & get fit first. That would be my advice; try the Diva and have her try a Madone WSD in a 54cm (53cm TT).

Also, don't forget looks ARE important. We like to ride purty bikes & your and her definition of purty may be different.
Thanks for all of the comments....her definition of purty happens to be the same as mine - she loves my Orange Orca and WANTS a blue Diva....I WISH I could have her sit on (and ride) a 53 Diva to see how it fits for her, but my LBS Orbea dealer doesn't carry any higher end stuff and certainly no women's models. I think the steeper seat tube (than the Orca) will work in her favor with her short torso...guess there's no real answer, then, except getting her on a Diva OR finding a bike the LBS DOES have that is the same geometry. Thanks again (and come to think of it...I DO ROCK!)

[aicabsolut]

I think the CC calculator can be a bit off. It's just guidelines. The best thing would be to have her sit on some bikes. She sounds like she's probably a good candidate for WSD geometry, but you do have to take into consideration her reach and flexibility too. She may do just fine on anywhere between 52-57cm frames, depending on the overall geometry for the specific model and manufacturer (head tube length and angle, seat tube angle and virtual top tube length). Why not have her sit on an Orca or Onix? That will at least put you in a ballpark for frame size. She can tell you what she likes or dislikes about the fit. Who knows, she may not need WSD geometry. Then you might have to use a longer stem or something if she really really wants the Diva.

[mountainpics]

I think the CC calculator can be a bit off. It's just guidelines. The best thing would be to have her sit on some bikes. She sounds like she's probably a good candidate for WSD geometry, but you do have to take into consideration her reach and flexibility too. She may do just fine on anywhere between 52-57cm frames, depending on the overall geometry for the specific model and manufacturer (head tube length and angle, seat tube angle and virtual top tube length). Why not have her sit on an Orca or Onix? That will at least put you in a ballpark for frame size. She can tell you what she likes or dislikes about the fit. Who knows, she may not need WSD geometry. Then you might have to use a longer stem or something if she really really wants the Diva.

I would absolutely LOVE to have her sit on an Orca or Onic or Diva, but no one is 200 miles from me has one (except me - my 51 Orca), which I'm raising the saddle on and having her sit on this afternoon. If anything, she'll need a short stem with her short torso. Just called Orbea and they steered me away from the Diva because they said the seat angle would be too steep for her long legs unless I moved the seat all the way back (which I could see doing and then compensating with a shorter stem). Anyone out there who has similar measurements (33.5 " inseam, short torso)? What are YOU riding?

[Triskeliongirl]

For the kind of money you are talking about, she needs to be professionally fit. Even without a bike, a good fit should be able to let her try diff. set-ups on one of those fit-cycles, etc., in order to figure out what is the best frame to order.

Terry makes bikes with proportionally shorter top tubes, but not in carbon which you seem to be looking for.

I think a sloping top tube design will help with the fact you may need to buy a smaller frame than her height demands to get the right TT length. But don't be fooled by steeper seat tube angles. Even though they make the TT appear shorter, they lengthen the reach since you need to slide the saddle back further on its rails to achieve the same KOP position.

Of the top of my head, why don't you look at the new Cervelo RS. I think the STAs are too steep on the orbeas for many women with long femurs.

[tulip]

Very nice of you to buy her a Diva...BUT if it doesn't fit her, it doesn't matter how nice a bike it is. She won't be comfortable on it if it doesn't fit.

I urge you to go shopping with her and get a bike that fits her properly. It might not be an Orbea...but it will fit her, which is more important than the brand anyways.

To answer your question, I ride a Luna Eclipse. It's custom-built, but it comes out to about a 49cm. I'm 5'6" tall with long legs and a short torso. I never thought I would ride such a small frame, but it's the most comfortable bike I've ever owned.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

I don't think it's a good idea to get a frame that you already suspect is not quite the right geometry and then depend on shoving the saddle back and putting on a short stem and swapping various handelbars to try to make it fit better. Such tweaking should just be fine tuning on a frame that basically has the right geometry to begin with. I know.

Oh, I just noticed that Tulip posted right before me. That makes two of us on custom Luna bikes that fit us like gloves. Silky fit is a joyous thing to experience, and it's something that many (not all) women have difficulty finding in bikes made basically for men's 'long arm proportions'.

[silver]

I'd just want to challange your thought that she has a short torso....I'm 5'8" with a 34" inseam and I don't consider myself to have a short torso. I ride a regular trek madone (07) size 58cm (actual measurement is 55cm seat tube/top tube). I've shortened the stem though. Admittedly I've been professionally fitted to a regular size 54cm trek madone in the 08 model. Just a thought as you continue your process here.

[Flur]

I'm 5'7" and have a 32" inseam. I actually have a log torso and long arms. I ride a Bianchi 1885 (a mens frame), size 53, which has a 52.4cm top tube with a virtual measurement of 53.5cm and a seat tube of 50cm. I'm very comfortable with my reach and my seat height in relation to my handlebars, but if your measurements are correct, most of the 2-inch height difference between your GF and me is in the legs. My seat is about 3 inches higher than my handlebars, which really is pretty high... Granted, I ride a completely different bike, but I would think you're probably right about the seat being too high in relation to the bars on a 53.

Just to add, for what you'd be spending, you might want to look at custom frame builders...

[aicabsolut]

I'd just want to challange your thought that she has a short torso....I'm 5'8" with a 34" inseam and I don't consider myself to have a short torso. I ride a regular trek madone (07) size 58cm (actual measurement is 55cm seat tube/top tube). I've shortened the stem though. Admittedly I've been professionally fitted to a regular size 54cm trek madone in the 08 model. Just a thought as you continue your process here.

Yeah, I agree. I'm 5'7" with a 32.5 inseam, and I ride a men's 54cm Specialized Roubaix (54.8cm virtual top tube) with a 110mm stem. I have a lot of bend in my elbows to compensate for the head tube height, but this is comfortable for me. My femurs are a little on the short side, proportionately, so I have my saddle a tad on the forward side. In a more aggressive bike with a shorter head tube, I might go down to a 52. In a TT bike, I'd definitely pick 51-52, because of the different body position, to keep my elbows under my shoulders. I tried WSD bikes, and they were way too upright and cramped in the reach for me.

A friend of mine is 5'9" with closer to 34" inseam, and she definitely has a short torso. Her reach is further compromised by the titanium rods in her spine from a skiing accident, so she cannot get a very aero position and be able to keep her eyes up to see in front of her. She can still handle a few inches of handlebar drop. She rides a 57cm Madone WSD and loves it. In a men's frame, she might have to go as small as 54cm, depending on the company.

Have you looked at geometry charts to find something with similar numbers as the Orbea? If you can find a more common brand where you live with approximately the same geometry, you can use those for sizing and then have your shop order the right Orbea.

[ilima]

I would absolutely LOVE to have her sit on an Orca or Onic or Diva, but no one is 200 miles from me has one (except me - my 51 Orca), which I'm raising the saddle on and having her sit on this afternoon. If anything, she'll need a short stem with her short torso. Just called Orbea and they steered me away from the Diva because they said the seat angle would be too steep for her long legs unless I moved the seat all the way back (which I could see doing and then compensating with a shorter stem). Anyone out there who has similar measurements (33.5 " inseam, short torso)? What are YOU riding?

I think most of us that have responded are skeptical that she would need a 51.5cm TT. It just seems to short given her height, unless she has really short arms, which seems unlikely given her long legs. The steep STA would help to increase the reach on the Diva precisely because the saddle would need to be set back a bit. To me, that would be a good thing as I think the Diva's TT sounds a bit too short.

I'm 5'4", 31" inseam (pretty long for my height) with longish arms and my road bike has a 52cm TT; 74 STA, 80mm stem. A friend that is 5'10" and has loooong legs rides a 56cm Felt men's bike. Probably a 55cm TT, although it's probably a bit too long for her.

The Diva with a setback seatpost just might work. If you need to use a stem shorter than 80-90mm or so though, I'd say it doesn't work.

[mountainpics]

I think most of us that have responded are skeptical that she would need a 51.5cm TT. It just seems to short given her height, unless she has really short arms, which seems unlikely given her long legs. The steep STA would help to increase the reach on the Diva precisely because the saddle would need to be set back a bit. To me, that would be a good thing as I think the Diva's TT sounds a bit too short.

I'm 5'4", 31" inseam (pretty long for my height) with longish arms and my road bike has a 52cm TT; 74 STA, 80mm stem. A friend that is 5'10" and has loooong legs rides a 56cm Felt men's bike. Probably a 55cm TT, although it's probably a bit too long for her.

The Diva with a setback seatpost just might work. If you need to use a stem shorter than 80-90mm or so though, I'd say it doesn't work.
Wow - thanks everyone for all of your input. I'm getting a bit of conflicting opinion from everyone, though. I checked with the bike shop where I used to work where we did a Fit Kit Pro fitting - her numbers from that were pretty different than what I got from the CC Fit Calculator...it recommended a 545 top tube and a 100-110 stem - waaaay longer than the 515 top tube and 90 stem CC's calculator suggested. I really think a men's frame would work, but nervous about the longer top tubes. She used to have a 56 Men's Felt road bike and felt too stretched out. I had her sit on my 51 Orca (same seat tube length, 10mm longer top tube and slightly slacker ST angle) with the saddle raised and the stem raised to simulate the taller head tube on the Diva 53. She said she felt good on it and was ok with the 5-6cm drop from top of saddle to top of h-bars (which could be decreased even more with a slightly rising stem and/or 1 more spacer).

I agree about getting a bike that fits - I will end up spending about $3000. Buying a frame and building it with Campy Chorus/Record and using her Tri Bike (A Felt 56 B2, by the way - too big for her but she wanted something where her h-bars would be about the same height as saddle for her Ironman race Aug. 9) training wheels. $3k is a lot to spend on a bike that's not a perfect fit, but I'm concerned there may not BE a perfect fit out there. I DID find a Trek and A Specialized at my LBS that have similar geometries to the 53 Diva, so I am going to have her check them out and we'll go from there. I must also admit to being partial to the Diva since I have the Orca.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

I agree about getting a bike that fits - I will end up spending about $3000. Buying a frame and building it with Campy Chorus/Record and using her Tri Bike (A Felt 56 B2, by the way - too big for her but she wanted something where her h-bars would be about the same height as saddle for her Ironman race Aug. 9) training wheels. $3k is a lot to spend on a bike that's not a perfect fit, but I'm concerned there may not BE a perfect fit out there.

Just my humble opinion....but if I had $3000 to spend, I'd get a custom frame made exactly to my body measurements, and if necessary I'd sacrifice the Campy and put Ultegra components on it instead in order to pay for the custom frame that fit me perfectly. You can always further upgrade components later on, but you can't change the frame geometry.

[mountainpics]

Just my humble opinion....but if I had $3000 to spend, I'd get a custom frame made exactly to my body measurements, and if necessary I'd sacrifice the Campy and put Ultegra components on it instead in order to pay for the custom frame that fit me perfectly. You can always further upgrade components later on, but you can't change the frame geometry.

Checked out the Luna website - was hoping to go all Carbon fiber, though. She's already had an aluminum road bike and I wanted to get her something super light and pretty much top of the line all the way around - a bike she'll keep for a long long time.... any suggestions on custom carbon bikes?

[TxDoc]

she loves my Orange Orca and WANTS a blue Diva

From your description of her measurements - I would suggest the Orca, maybe with a shorter stem (90 or even 80) rather than the Diva. Is there a special reason why she want a women specific bicycle?
If your Orca is a size 51, try to sit her on yours and see if that can be a good fit. My guess is that she may need the 54. If 51 is too small and 54 is too big - then you may want to have her sit on some bikes other than Orbea.
Is any of the bike shops in your area a BMC dealer? Their bicycles are custom made in Switzerland. Great carbon fiber bikes, and great custom fitting program. you can take a look at their models on http://www.bmc-racing.com
Best of luck!

[TxDoc]

Checked out the Luna website - was hoping to go all Carbon fiber, though. She's already had an aluminum road bike and I wanted to get her something super light and pretty much top of the line all the way around - a bike she'll keep for a long long time.... any suggestions on custom carbon bikes?

Well, I just saw your last post - and now my suggestion is really to go with BMC. You can call any of their US dealers, they will give you the list of measurements you need to take. You can go to your local bike shop to take the measurements, and then send them to the BMC dealer. They will send them out to Switzerland and in about 2 months (probably a bit longer now in the Summer) your new custom carbon bike will be in the dealer's store - and they can send it to your local bike shop.
Those are really great bikes, worth every penny - or every Swiss Franc...;)

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Checked out the Luna website - was hoping to go all Carbon fiber, though. She's already had an aluminum road bike and I wanted to get her something super light and pretty much top of the line all the way around - a bike she'll keep for a long long time.... any suggestions on custom carbon bikes?

I hear you. :) But can you get an all carbon custom (actually-made-to-your-specific-body-measurements) bike with CampyRecord components for $3000?
And hopefully she won't crash an all carbon bike because then it won't likely last her "a long long time" (which I think of as perhaps 20 years or more). Carbon can crack under crash stress, and is not easily repaired if it does.
But hey carbon bikes are cool too, and certainly very lightweight...I'm just an old fashioned steel girl...but I'd like to learn more anyway about the custom made carbon ones. :)

Is it possible to get a custom titanium Seven for $3000? I suspect not, but i'm no expert. That would be pretty cushy.

[TxDoc]

Is it possible to get a custom titanium Seven for $3000? I suspect not, but i'm no expert. That would be pretty cushy.

I think the custom Ti Seven range from $6k up for a complete bike - not sure but I remember looking them up last month because I was thinking of buying a custom Titanium bike.
From what I recall from my own search last month... I think the only custom Titanium bicycles within a $3k budget were Habanero, their custom Ti frames are less than $1500 so a complete bike under $3k is feasible. http://www.habcycles.com
Sorry the correct link to custom is: http://www.habcycles.com/custom.html

[Flur]

The Seven Alaris frame is $2400, but that's just the frame.... that plus the campy will be over 3k. It's the full titanium frame. The full carbons are a bit more.

[aicabsolut]

And hopefully she won't crash an all carbon bike because then it won't likely last her "a long long time" (which I think of as perhaps 20 years or more). Carbon can crack under crash stress, and is not easily repaired if it does.


Bah. Aluminum, steel, and ti frames can all fail in the right crash. Many crashed carbon bikes live to see another day. It all depends on the circumstances of the accident.

To the OP, have her sit on a lot of bikes. Try 52-56. Try different brands. You can get a good bike with Chorus for $3k. The important thing is the frame, as you know. Do a bunch of test riding and fitting and shopping, and then order something comparable or get a different brand of frame locally to build up.

The thing about the varied answers in this thread is true of all bike size questions on forums: Bike size may follow some rules of thumb based on factors like inseam, but everyone is different. There's inseam length. Relative femur to calf length. Flexibility and effective reach. How aggressive the person wants to be in terms of saddle to bar drop. How low the person can go and still look up down the road without hurting his/her neck. The type of riding, racing, and training to be done. So yeah, we don't really know what she needs any better than you, but have her try some "men's" frames and WSD frames. As many as you can get your hands on.

[Grasshoppergirl]

What a lucky GF you have! I just got a Diva with Campy Chorus and I love it! Mine is the pistachio green thus they named me Grasshopper as I'm hopping to the front of the pack. My LBS gave me a great fit with choosing the frame and then once it came in adjusting seat, pedals, stem, etc.
The numbers on the Diva can't really be compared to others, LBS said they measure the Diva differently. I was riding my husband's hand me down Orca(a 53? he's 5' 9") for the past two years and had it professionally fit by changing handlebars, stem, gearing, etc. I'm 5'6", 30" inseam and I have a 49 for the Diva. I was skeptical, but the shop had a 49 in for maintenance that I was able to try. Very light and I got a compact 50/34, 13/29 just like I had with the Orca only better!
Hope you can figure it out. She'll love you both ;).

[tulip]

Checked out the Luna website - was hoping to go all Carbon fiber, though. She's already had an aluminum road bike and I wanted to get her something super light and pretty much top of the line all the way around - a bike she'll keep for a long long time.... any suggestions on custom carbon bikes?

Lunas are not aluminum. They are steel. Mine is Columbus Ultrafoco steel (very light, teardrop tubing) with carbon fork and seatstays. Ultegra components. Within your $3k budget. It is made for me, it's the most comfortable bike I've ever ridden. I will be keeping it for a long, long time. There's no other bike like it.

What bikes are your girlfriend interested in?

[Aggie_Ama]

I don't know how much they cost (I have an off the shelf carbon bike) but there was a custom carbon builder in Bicycling Magazine. Crumpton Cycles out of Texas, I think it will set you back way more than $3,000. I think any completely custom bike will set you back more than $3,000 for the frame.

I personally have my eye on a Lynskey custom Ti Bike, I do not desire another carbon bike. If she is looking for comfort Ti or Steel would fit the bill as well and you would be surprised how a bike that fits can be fast because it works with you.

Wonderful gift but I think you should let her pick what she wants. Orbeas are sexy bikes but if they don't fit they are worthless IMHO.

[Triskeliongirl]

Crumpton is an excellent carbon builder, but they cost much more than $3000. I have seen his bikes, they are light and beautiful.

Since there is so much uncertaintly can you drive to a city with more bikes she could test ride?

[rij73]

What a fun thread... You are probably totally overwhelmed by now, but I'll throw something in.

I know she waaaaaants a blue Diva. It's a gorgeous bike. However, she should try a bunch of bikes out to get an idea of the right geometry. I tried a bunch of bikes, figured out what worked number-wise, and bought a bike sight-unseen that I hadn't tried based on the measurements. It worked out great for me. The key is to try at least 5 bikes with different geometries and take notes on the comfort of each. Then, buy a bike similar to the comfiest you tried.

All that said, sounds like her needs are quite extreme. The Madone geometry looks better at a glance than the Orbea. For a 521 top tube, it has a centimeter longer seat tube and a half-centimeter longer head tube. Still might be too compact for her, though.

The very best-fitting stock bike for a woman with long legs vs. torso are the Terry Isis bikes. 521 Top tube, 546 Seat tube, 805 Standover. If her needs are what you say, that fits the bill perfectly. Unfortunately, I don't think she'll like how it looks if she likes Orbea so much. That gets you back to thinking about custom.

[mountainpics]

Lunas are not aluminum. They are steel. Mine is Columbus Ultrafoco steel (very light, teardrop tubing) with carbon fork and seatstays. Ultegra components. Within your $3k budget. It is made for me, it's the most comfortable bike I've ever ridden. I will be keeping it for a long, long time. There's no other bike like it.

What bikes are your girlfriend interested in?

Yeah, I realize that the Lunas are steel. I mentioned aluminum because she's specifically already owned an aluminum bike (and a steel Peugeot) and was hoping for carbon. Thanks for your input, though

[mountainpics]

What a lucky GF you have! I just got a Diva with Campy Chorus and I love it! Mine is the pistachio green thus they named me Grasshopper as I'm hopping to the front of the pack. My LBS gave me a great fit with choosing the frame and then once it came in adjusting seat, pedals, stem, etc.
The numbers on the Diva can't really be compared to others, LBS said they measure the Diva differently. I was riding my husband's hand me down Orca(a 53? he's 5' 9") for the past two years and had it professionally fit by changing handlebars, stem, gearing, etc. I'm 5'6", 30" inseam and I have a 49 for the Diva. I was skeptical, but the shop had a 49 in for maintenance that I was able to try. Very light and I got a compact 50/34, 13/29 just like I had with the Orca only better!
Hope you can figure it out. She'll love you both ;).
Thanks for the kind words. If you're 5'6" with a 30 inseam and ride a 49 Diva, seems like a 53 diva would work for someone who is 5'9" and 33.5 inseam (but a 55 would probably work even better - her inseam is 3.5 inches or 8.89 cm longer) I am going to take her to the LBS and have her ride/sit on as many bikes as possible, but I have been looking at other big manufacturer's geometries (the stuff I'm likely to find at my LBS) and it's hard to compare them to the Diva's geometry....

[mountainpics]

I don't know how much they cost (I have an off the shelf carbon bike) but there was a custom carbon builder in Bicycling Magazine. Crumpton Cycles out of Texas, I think it will set you back way more than $3,000. I think any completely custom bike will set you back more than $3,000 for the frame.

I personally have my eye on a Lynskey custom Ti Bike, I do not desire another carbon bike. If she is looking for comfort Ti or Steel would fit the bill as well and you would be surprised how a bike that fits can be fast because it works with you.

Wonderful gift but I think you should let her pick what she wants. Orbeas are sexy bikes but if they don't fit they are worthless IMHO.
I certainly didn't mean to give the impression that I was PUSHING the Diva onto her...she LOVES my Orange 08 Orca and saw a local guy riding a Blue Orca and said she can't stop thinking about it, so it's definitely what she wants (if it fits her). She's also seen Pinarello's that catch her eye and I could get her an FP5 with DA for $2750, but I think the top tube will be too long....

[mountainpics]

Crumpton is an excellent carbon builder, but they cost much more than $3000. I have seen his bikes, they are light and beautiful.

Since there is so much uncertaintly can you drive to a city with more bikes she could test ride?

Yeah, I did see Crumpton's website...frames alone are in the $4k's. When she starts racing and wins the Women's Masters road race, she'll be ready for that, but I have to be reasonable about how much bike she actually NEEDS. I am actually considering driving with her up to Little Rock (7 hours away -lots of gas used for something that's not NECESSARY - would feel VERY much like we're giving the big middle finger to the environment, but I digress) to demo some bikes at Competitive Cyclist. Baton Rouge is 1.5 hours away (I live in New Orleans) and there are a couple more shops. I called all of the Orbea dealers within 200 miles and no one has the Diva in stock.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Bah. Aluminum, steel, and ti frames can all fail in the right crash. Many crashed carbon bikes live to see another day. It all depends on the circumstances of the accident.

Bah yourself. :cool:
Yes, of course ANY frame can become a total loss in 'the right crash'. And yes, everything depends on the circumstances of a crash. But the fact is that carbon frames are the least repairable after significant crashes that damage the frame, aluminum second least repairable. Steel is the most often successfully repairable after significant crash damage.

[TxDoc]

Baton Rouge is 1.5 hours away (I live in New Orleans) and there are a couple more shops. I called all of the Orbea dealers within 200 miles and no one has the Diva in stock.

Did you try to see how she fits on your Orca? that would give you some good info on what geometry suits her best.
As per budget, BMC may be out of your spending limit as well - but I would still call the nearest dealer and see if they have any suggestions or offers. That would be full carbon custom.
Long legs with shorter reach... have you looked at the geometry on Lapierre bikes? Also, take a look at the stock carbon Bianchi that is women specific. I think the model name is daniela or daniele, and it should be within your budget with Campy (although I believe the stock one comes with veloce or chorus, not record). If I remember correctly it's the same full carbon setup of the 928 t cube but it has a shorter top tube.

[TxDoc]

Just occurred to me... the Jamis xenith comp has a women model with shorter top tube - one of the girls that rides in my boyfriend cycling club owns that bike, and she tried a million bicycles before finding that one that fit. She is about 5'8" if I remember corectly.
Here are the specs: http://www.jamisbikes.com/usa/bikes/08_bikes/08xenithcompf.html#
I think the stock version comes with Shimano but it's really cheap - so if it is a good fit you could just buy the frame and fit it with chorus or record.

[mountainpics]

Did you try to see how she fits on your Orca? that would give you some good info on what geometry suits her best.

yeah - I raised my stem to simulate the Diva's taller head tube (and raised the seat up to accomodate her longer legs) and though the top of the bars in relation to the top of the saddle were lower than what she is used to, she seemed fine on it (and I have a negative rise stem, so with a rising stem and maybe one spacer, she'd be in a very comfortable position)...gonna check out some Trek WSD frames this afternoon...

[mountainpics]

Also, take a look at the stock carbon Bianchi that is women specific. I think the model name is daniela or daniele, and it should be within your budget with Campy (although I believe the stock one comes with veloce or chorus, not record). If I remember correctly it's the same full carbon setup of the 928 t cube but it has a shorter top tube.
Yeah - it's the Daniela - I was going to get a Diva with Chorus/Record for around $3000 and the Daniela is $3400 with Veloce, so not as good a value (and the top tube is actually 5mm Longer with a shorter head tube compared to the Diva). The Lapierre WSD bike does have a nice tall head tube, but the top tube is long on the 52 size. Thanks for the suggestions, though.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

She needs to test ride a bunch of bikes, that'll narrow it down much more efficiently than all these well meaning suggestions which are spread all over the map.

[Aggie_Ama]

I am actually considering driving with her up to Little Rock (7 hours away -lots of gas used for something that's not NECESSARY - would feel VERY much like we're giving the big middle finger to the environment, but I digress) to demo some bikes at Competitive Cyclist. Baton Rouge is 1.5 hours away (I live in New Orleans) and there are a couple more shops. I called all of the Orbea dealers within 200 miles and no one has the Diva in stock.


Rent a tiny car, the guys (and gals) at Competitive Cyclist are great! We met them by accident last year in Little Rock. Very helpful group, gave us route slips for one of the best rides I have ever done. Houston isn't a far drive and has some large shops. For what you are spending you want to make sure it is the right bike. If you have to drive I would.

[mountainpics]

She needs to test ride a bunch of bikes, that'll narrow it down much more efficiently than all these well meaning suggestions which are spread all over the map.

Yep...just got back from LBS and rode a Trek 54 WSD and a Giant and a Felt and another Giant, and she was really comfortable (and the plumb line from the knee was spot on) with the Trek WSD 54cm except that she felt just a bit too upright. Since the 53 Diva has almost exactly the same seat and head angles, a 5mm shorter top tube (to her advantage) and a 1.5cm shorter head tube (due mainly to the fact that the frame size is 1cm shorter), it looks like it's a winner. Her amount of seat post showing should be about 16.5 cm and the head tube is 14, so that's a good correlation. SOOOOO long story short, I just ordered the 53 Diva frame and Campy Chorus group with a Record UT Crank and Record Skeleton Brakes, told her about it, and she is BEYOND excited. I'm actually going to have HER put it together (with my help) so she can feel really connected to the new bike. THANKS FOR EVERYONE's HELP! I will let you all know how it ends up fitting her after all (should be fine judging by the Trek she rode) and will certainly post pics once it's built.

[VeloVT]

Wait... if she felt too upright on the 54cm, a SHORTER top tube is going to make her feel even more upright. Of course, 5mm is within range to reasonably correct with a longer stem, but you should think twice about putting her on a smaller frame if she feels too upright on the 54...

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Yep...just got back from LBS and rode a Trek 54 WSD and a Giant and a Felt and another Giant, and she was really comfortable (and the plumb line from the knee was spot on) with the Trek WSD 54cm except that she felt just a bit too upright. Since the 53 Diva has almost exactly the same seat and head angles, a 5mm shorter top tube (to her advantage) and a 1.5cm shorter head tube (due mainly to the fact that the frame size is 1cm shorter), it looks like it's a winner. Her amount of seat post showing should be about 16.5 cm and the head tube is 14, so that's a good correlation. SOOOOO long story short, I just ordered the 53 Diva frame and Campy Chorus group with a Record UT Crank and Record Skeleton Brakes, told her about it, and she is BEYOND excited. I'm actually going to have HER put it together (with my help) so she can feel really connected to the new bike. THANKS FOR EVERYONE's HELP! I will let you all know how it ends up fitting her after all (should be fine judging by the Trek she rode) and will certainly post pics once it's built.

That sounds terrific! I know she will be beside herself with excitement and being part of putting the bike together is the way to go too. :D A real treat to get the Campy too. Sounds like a great choice for her. :) :) :)
It's always best by far to ride a bike before buying it. Congratulations!

One bit of extra advice- she should ride the bike a bunch before making any adjustments aside from saddle adjustments. I amazes me how our bodies take their sweet time to adjust to every slightly new position. Make only one small change or tweak at a time, and ride the bike a lot between changes. Took me 250 miles before my body 'melted' into my new custom bike and finally reported back to me that it was indeed a perfect fit. I was so glad that I practiced extreme patience and had resisted changing anything all that time- I left everything just as the custom builder/fitter had set it up for me, and in the end I found she had indeed set it all up perfectly for me. ;)
Often a small change will seem 'wrong' at first, simply because it's new to our body. If your GF was switching to a slightly more aero position, she'd at first feel like she was leaning down too far, it would feel 'wrong'. But she's switching to a slightly more upright position, and so that feels 'wrong' right now. It's good to ride a week or two on a new bike without making changes, and then again between every small change or tweak.
But getting the saddle height, tilt, and fore/aft is good to try to do right away, and easily fine tuned later as well.

[TxDoc]

Yep...just got back from LBS and rode a Trek 54 WSD and a Giant and a Felt and another Giant, and she was really comfortable (and the plumb line from the knee was spot on) with the Trek WSD 54cm except that she felt just a bit too upright.

"too upright"? you mean the opposite, correct? because a shorter top tube is going to accentuate the problem... if she really feels too upright maybe she needs a longer top tube so she can get her back flat?
Not sure I read this right, or maybe I did not understand what you mean?

[Grasshoppergirl]

Congratulations! I think the 53 is best because you can adjust the seat easier than the top tube. As you say, there is something to the geometry of the Diva that just makes it fit better having been on the Orca for nearly 2 years. Good thing you have that hot orange Orca to keep up with the Diva - watch out!
About the color-I originally ordered the blue(in fact I'm wearing the blue Terry jersey my friend gave me to match my new "blue" bike) and the shop said it takes 10 days to get it in. Two weeks later they called and said to pick the purple or green, shortage of blue at the time. All the Orbea colors look good.
I looked at plenty of other bikes too, but none of the women specific or others are as light as the Diva and didn't seem like they were going to be an improvement ($3,000-$5,000 worth)on the Orca I had. Looked into a Seven and Calfee last summer and the price nearly doubles plus would not have been ready for a Colorado tour we did last year. Ridin strong on my Diva is what they're just sayin'.

[mountainpics]

Wait... if she felt too upright on the 54cm, a SHORTER top tube is going to make her feel even more upright. Of course, 5mm is within range to reasonably correct with a longer stem, but you should think twice about putting her on a smaller frame if she feels too upright on the 54...

I think she felt too upright on the Trek because the head tube was 15.5 cm (compared to 14 on the Diva) AND the stem on the Trek had a significant rise. You're right about a smaller top tube giving a more upright ride, but 5mm shorter won't make much difference, although the shorter head tube and no or negative rise stem will make a big difference, so I think I'll be ok.

[mountainpics]

That sounds terrific! I know she will be beside herself with excitement and being part of putting the bike together is the way to go too. :D A real treat to get the Campy too. Sounds like a great choice for her. :) :) :)
It's always best by far to ride a bike before buying it. Congratulations!

One bit of extra advice- she should ride the bike a bunch before making any adjustments aside from saddle adjustments. Really good advice - thanks!

[mountainpics]

Congratulations! I think the 53 is best because you can adjust the seat easier than the top tube. As you say, there is something to the geometry of the Diva that just makes it fit better having been on the Orca for nearly 2 years. Good thing you have that hot orange Orca to keep up with the Diva - watch out!
About the color-I originally ordered the blue(in fact I'm wearing the blue Terry jersey my friend gave me to match my new "blue" bike) and the shop said it takes 10 days to get it in. Two weeks later they called and said to pick the purple or green, shortage of blue at the time.

Thanks - they apparently have one blue left in a 53, but I'll know for sure tomorrow. If not, she's fine with the white, so either way, she'll be happy.

[aicabsolut]

Bah yourself. :cool:
Yes, of course ANY frame can become a total loss in 'the right crash'. And yes, everything depends on the circumstances of a crash. But the fact is that carbon frames are the least repairable after significant crashes that damage the frame, aluminum second least repairable. Steel is the most often successfully repairable after significant crash damage.

Tell that to Calfee.

[aicabsolut]

I think she felt too upright on the Trek because the head tube was 15.5 cm (compared to 14 on the Diva) AND the stem on the Trek had a significant rise. You're right about a smaller top tube giving a more upright ride, but 5mm shorter won't make much difference, although the shorter head tube and no or negative rise stem will make a big difference, so I think I'll be ok.

1.5 cm difference in head tube height plus different stem adjustment sounds right to me, even with .5cm difference in TT length. Congrats (to your girlfriend) on her new ride!

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Tell that to Calfee.

Thanks, but I have higher priority tasks in my life at the moment. :)

[aicabsolut]

Thanks, but I have higher priority tasks in my life at the moment. :)

Like checking your facts?

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Like checking your facts?

OK quit busting my chops.

You should check your own facts.

[tulip]

Ladies...this is supposed to be fun. Chill out!

It's okay to disagree. Jeez.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Yeah, like really.

[mountainpics]

So, I went through with it and bought my girlfriend the ORbea Diva frame and helped her build it Wednesday night. She jsut compeleted her first Ironman in 13:51, and I thought it would be a great way to congratulate her...it's gorgeous and fits her really well after all the hair-pulling and math-doing to decide if it was the right choice...Here are the specs:
2008 Orbea Diva Frame - 53cm - light blue
2008 Campagnolo Record Skeleton Brakes
2008 Campagnolo Chorus Carbon Compact Cranks
2008 Campagnolo Chorus F. Derailleur
2008 Campagnolo Chorus R. Derailleur
2008 Campagnolo Chorus Shifters/Brake Levers
2008 Campagnolo Chorus Chain
Orbea/Zeus Carbon Post
Ritchey Pro stem
Kestrel EMS Pro Carbon Bars
Specialized Jett White Saddle
2008 Campagnolo Vento Wheelset
Michelin Pro 3 Race Tires
Dura Ace Pedals

[KnottedYet]

Oh, my, that is so sleek!