Help - Triple vs. Compact & loads of hills

[RolliePollie]

Hi all,

I have the opportunity to buy a brand new Felt FW15 at an exceptional price. Problem is, this bike comes with a compact crankset (50/34, 11-25). I currently have a triple (52/42/30, 12-26) and I use my granny gear on every ride. It is extremely hilly around here and there are several hills where I'm riding at 4 mph or less. I do pretty well with my triple but I actually wish I had one more grannier granny gear. I just can't imagine giving up all those gears and I'm thinking a compact would not be such a good idea. I'm really quite ignorant about this stuff. Can anyone give me any advice on this?

Thanks in advance! :)

[maillotpois]

If I lived where you live (and indeed I ride a lot around there), I would get a triple. (Indeed, I have one.)

If you're happy with your triple, and you use your granny gear on every ride (which I would if I lived where you live :) ) and you wish you had more gears (which I do when I ride where you live :) - drat where's my quad!! :D ), then you probably should stick with the triple.

[Mr. Bloom]

I think you can get the bike and convert it to a triple, can't you?

[Triskeliongirl]

I ran some numbers through sheldon browns calculator. If the formatting of the table messes up this is a summary:

1. On your old bike your lowest gear was a 30/26 = 30.3 gear inches.

2. On the new bike your lowest gear is a 34/25 = 35.7 gear inches.

3. The least expensive solution is to install a road casette, 12/27 (assuming its shimano) but that will only get you to 33.1 gear inches, in between the 2 situations.

4. If you want to go lower, and you have a long cage road derailleur you might get away with a mountain 12/32 casette, that will get you to 27.9 gear inches, lower than the old bike. This is borderline for a long cage road rear derailleur, a mountain rear dearailleur will surely work though.

5. If you wanna go lower, you need to install a mountain rear dearailleur and an 11/34 (or 12/34) rear casette. That will get you to 26.3. This is what I have :) and lower than your current set up.

50 34 30
25 52.6 35.7 31.5

26 50.5 34.4 30.3

27 48.7 33.1 29.2

32 41.1 27.9 24.6

34 38.6 26.3 23.2


If its campy, I think you can get a 13/28 road casette which will also help alot.

Of course you can also put a triple on, but then in addition to changing the crank set (not cheap) you may also need to change the front derailleur and possibly brifters depending on compatability, so most expensive solution.

[RolliePollie]

Thanks Sarah! I appreciate the validation on the triple and on the fact that it's hilly where I live! Today, like every day that I ride, I try and try and try to shift even though I know there aren't any more gears. But then I make it to the top of the hill and everything is good again.

I would imagine there aren't too many compacts on the Death Ride...and I want to do that ride next year or the year after that. So...perhaps I should contact Felt and see if they can make a bike with a triple just especially for me!

[RolliePollie]

I ran some numbers through sheldon browns calculator. If the formatting of the table messes up this is a summary:

1. On your old bike your lowest gear was a 30/26 = 31.5 gear inches.

2. On the new bike your lowest gear is a 34/25 = 35.7 gear inches.


This is just the kind of explanation I needed to see! So...looks to me like I'd be walking up hills with the new bike. :(

It seems reasonable to buy the bike anyway and then switch out the gears. But I think I'll look at some other bikes instead of buying the Felt just because it's such a good price. The price might not look so great after I figure in the modifications.

[maillotpois]

I would imagine there aren't too many compacts on the Death Ride...and I want to do that ride next year or the year after that.

No, there are plenty of compacts on the Death Ride. I just don't use one. ;)

We have folks on our team who do have compacts. Our racer boys don't need anything else with them, but we have some folks who use the compact with a shimano XTR or XT mountain bike rear derailleur and big cassette. That seems to be the best option. However, you do lose your big power gear if you use that. (Which I do.) Most of our people have triples.

Good for you for setting a big goal for yourself. It is a very doable ride if you prepare, pace yourself, and keep your sense of humor throughout the day.

[Triskeliongirl]

This is just the kind of explanation I needed to see! So...looks to me like I'd be walking up hills with the new bike. :(

It seems reasonable to buy the bike anyway and then switch out the gears. But I think I'll look at some other bikes instead of buying the Felt just because it's such a good price. The price might not look so great after I figure in the modifications.


notice I corrected a typo, your current lowest is actually 30.3 so yes this is geared a lot higher than your current bike. But don't discount moving to a mountain rear casette/derailleur as it can get you even lower than your current set up.

[RolliePollie]

No, there are plenty of compacts on the Death Ride. I just don't use one. ;)

We have folks on our team who do have compacts. Our racer boys don't need anything else with them, but we have some folks who use the compact with a shimano XTR or XT mountain bike rear derailleur and big cassette. That seems to be the best option. However, you do lose your big power gear if you use that. (Which I do.) Most of our people have triples.

Good for you for setting a big goal for yourself. It is a very doable ride if you prepare, pace yourself, and keep your sense of humor throughout the day.

I would hate to lose my big power gear...I love to pedal away at high speeds on downhills. So...it's looking like I'm a triple kind of gal.

Thanks everyone for your quick responses and advice!!!

-sara

[Triskeliongirl]

But you wouldn't lose your high gear if you put an 11/34 on in back. 50/11 isn't very different from 52/12. What you lose are the tight increments between gears, or in other words the gaps between gears would be larger. But the advantage is you cover a wider range of gears in a single ring, avoiding front shifts on changing terrain.

But it sounds like you love your triple, so probably this isn't the bike for you unless the shop would be willing to swap out the components for what you want.

[Triskeliongirl]

I just ran the numbers. A 50/11 is a higher gear (119.5)than a 52/12 (113.9)!! You can run the numbers easily yourself here: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gears/
I assumed you are running 700c x 23 tires.

52 50
11 124.2 119.5

12 113.9 109.5

[RolliePollie]

I just ran the numbers. A 50/11 is a higher gear (119.5)than a 52/12 (113.9)!! You can run the numbers easily yourself here: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gears/
I assumed you are running 700c x 23 tires.

52 50
11 124.2 119.5

12 113.9 109.5


Great link! Thanks!

[violette]

I would change to a triple. I bought a Roubaix comp and had to change the cassette. Hills or even rolling hills were almost impossible and I was getting discouraged. I had a triple before and I could do big hills with no problems.

[Pedal Wench]

Talk to your shop. When I bought my first road bike, they were willing to swap out whatever I needed. (I think it came as a triple, they put on a compact for me to try, then we went back to the triple.) To make the sale, they might be willing to do whatever you want -- they probably swap components all the time. Can't hurt to ask. Worse case, just take the triple and whatever else you need off your current bike and put it on the new one.

[NadiaMac]

I used a compact on the death ride, with a sram 12-28 cassette on the back. And saw plenty of compact cranks on the DR, many equipped with a similarly large cog in the rear!

This got me to within one gear inch of my granny gear on the triple with my old bike and I needed every gear inch towards the end of my death ride. That said, I lost the gear increments in the rear, as the cassette goes from 25 to 28. So if you like having incrementally close gear options (25, 26, 27, 28 in the rear), I'd say stick with your triple.

Regarding use of Mt bike bogs in the rear- this only works if the bike has shimano components. Campy and sram will not accomodate the larger cogs. It's pretty expensive to convert to a triple and many frames will not permit the conversion. If you want a triple, it's probably a better idea to buy a bike that comes with a triple.
good luck! the felt sounds sweet!

[yellow]

RP...I used to live and ride where you live and ride.

I would not give up a triple if I still lived and rode there. I now have a compact double (Campy) for which I built my own custom 12-29 cassette and there are still some days here (where the climbs are different, long and mostly moderate as opposed to short and very steep, which you have a lot of) where I say, out loud, that I just want two more gear inches. No way would I want to ride my current gearing up Slug Gulch or Snows Road.

Why can't you put the triple from your current bike on to the Felt?

[Susan126]

It's hard to say what you would be best with. I went from a triple to a compact three weeks ago when I bought my new Specialized Ruby Expert. I was wary when I ordered the compact because I didn't know how I would handle the hills. And believe me I live in the land of hills and mountains! But so far I have had no problems climbing. In fact I find that I am climbing faster and better.

My new Ruby is an 11-28 and the big rings are 50X34t

My old trek 2200 I believe has 30/42/52t
and rear 12-26

Not too much of a difference, at least I can't tell. She flies on the flats and descents. And climbs like a monkey!

I hope you find something that you like and are comfortable riding. Good luck! And please let us know what you go with. I agree with Mr. Silver and yellow, can you possibly get a triple for the felt?

triskeliongirl, you are really good at figuring out all the math on the gears! My hubby is too but he never explains things to me too clearly. I'm going to try and figure out my new bike's gears as compared to my old bike. Wish me luck! :confused:

[ilima]

Even though Shimano's road derailleurs are designed to handle 27 teeth, I've heard they actually can be pushed an extra tooth. SRAM makes 12-28 cassettes, which are compatible with Shimano hubs. That'll get you down to 31.9 gear inches.

[Pedal Wench]

I now have a compact double (Campy) for which I built my own custom 12-29

Do you know what you used to do this? I want a 12 on my Campy 13-29, but not sure what ring to give up to get there. How do you like it?

[mudmucker]

It's hard to say what you would be best with. I went from a triple to a compact three weeks ago when I bought my new Specialized Ruby Expert. I was wary when I ordered the compact because I didn't know how I would handle the hills. And believe me I live in the land of hills and mountains! But so far I have had no problems climbing. In fact I find that I am climbing faster and better.

My new Ruby is an 11-28 and the big rings are 50X34t

My old trek 2200 I believe has 30/42/52t
and rear 12-26


So with this setup you are actually losing I think, your lowest gear - about 1.5 gear inches from your triple? And you are climbing better and faster? Does the Ruby weigh less than the other - do you think it's bike weight or a difference in geometry?

But back to RolliePollie and to others who have hills who have been thinking about swapping out from a triple to a compact double....
I wonder if we need to think about the type of hills that we ride.

I myself have been thinking about swapping, then I get on a hill and sometimes go in my lowest and keep saying, boy, am I glad I have my triple, and ask, why do I want to change this?

But the type of hills I have are mostly abrupt acute steep up and downs that follow each other like a camel with 7 humps or successive stairs. They are fairly short, about 1/2 to 2 miles each, anywhere between 6-12% grades. As soon as you are done with one, the next one is so close that there's maybe only a 1/4 mile between, to the next one. Some of the grade changes so I shift slightly while on the same chain ring, but if I want to maximize the downhill then I'm really shifting up 2 chainrings and then maybe another within the ring to fine tune it. Yes, I can map it out and I've gotten quite expedient at shifting minimally, but sometimes I still feel as if I'm shifting till the cows come home. There are points with terrain like this where I just don't shift after the hill anymore because I get tired of it - I coast down in the gear I already know I'm going to need for the next hill. I think I would love a double. I would lose my lowest gear if I switched.

If the hills were of a different nature, with longer distances between hills, or a greater than 6-7% really long sustained climb, then you can rest comfortably in the small ring for a time, and use the middle or outer ring for lesser grades and not be shifting so much.

What kind of hills do you have and does any of that make sense? Some people can do better on acute hills and not so good on lower grade sustained climbs. What do you do better at?

For me it's a shifting issue, like there's too many gears and I need to make big jumps. But, my problem is I can do all the gear charts I want and numerically be able to see the differences, but my brain fully can't see how the spacing between the gears on a compact double would "feel" in my riding area. I would really have to get a bike with that gearing and do a test ride. I'd hate to spend all that money to swap out and find it isn't that suitable. So, for now I stick with my triple.

Edited to add: I saw saw yellow's post where she says it's of the steep up and down nature. And that for her, 2 gear inches makes a lot of difference. I can see that, which is why I stay with the triple.

[aicabsolut]

But the type of hills I have are mostly abrupt acute steep up and downs that follow each other like a camel with 7 humps. They are fairly short, about 1/2 to 2 miles each, anywhere between 6-12% grades. As soon as you are done with one, the next one is so close that there's maybe only a 1/4 mile between, to the next one. Some of the grade changes so I shift slightly while on the same chain ring, but if I want to maximize the downhill then I'm really shifting up 2 chainrings and then maybe another within the ring to fine tune it. Yes, I can map it out and I've gotten quite expedient at shifting minimally, but sometimes I still feel as if I'm shifting till the cows come home. There are points with terrain like this where I just don't shift after the hill anymore because I get tired of it - I coast down in the gear I already know I'm going to need for the next hill. So I have maybe 20 seconds of coasting. I think I would love a double. I would lose my lowest gear if I switched.

If the hills were of a different nature, with longer distances between hills, or a greater than 6-7% really long sustained climb, then you can rest comfortably in the small ring for a time, and use the middle or outer ring for lesser grades and not be shifting so much.

What kind of hills do you have and does any of that make sense? Some people can do better on acute hills and not so good on lower grade sustained climbs. What do you do better at?



I ride hills like yours. Rollers. A compact works just fine for me. I have friends who prefer standard doubles and others who prefer triples on the same terrain. If having the triple is such a pain for you, then it's fine to consider whether the compact will be a welcome change. You need to weigh that annoyance with your dependency on your current granny gear.

[mudmucker]

yeah, I know I need to weigh it. I would want to swap to an 11-28. And there are other options with the compact, like swap out to a mt cassette and rear derailleur. But the hills aren't that bad. I've been trying not to use the last small cog, but only the second to the last and see how my knees fare. Right now I have a 12-27 with a 30 for the smallest. I'd lose 2.8 gear inches.

[aicabsolut]

2.8 gear inches isn't a huge amount, and the weight and stiffness of the new bike may offset that. However, if you're really struggling now, then that may be enough of a difference to make your ride miserable. OTOH, if you have a better time riding without shifting constantly, then maybe that will encourage you to ride those hills more, and your fitness will improve fast. Not wasting any time getting your momentum up downhill and not shedding momentum too fast by having to shift so much couldn't hurt either on hills of that length.

[mudmucker]

I don't need to be encouraged to do the hills, that's what I have in most every direction from the house. So when I ride in my area, that's what I have. I usually see improvement by the very next bike ride.

I'm not really struggling right now. I just don't want to spend all that money if it ends up not being suitable.

I don't have a new bike. It's the same bike.

[madscot13]

No, there are plenty of compacts on the Death Ride. I just don't use one. ;)

We have folks on our team who do have compacts. Our racer boys don't need anything else with them, but we have some folks who use the compact with a shimano XTR or XT mountain bike rear derailleur and big cassette. That seems to be the best option. However, you do lose your big power gear if you use that. (Which I do.) Most of our people have triples.

Good for you for setting a big goal for yourself. It is a very doable ride if you prepare, pace yourself, and keep your sense of humor throughout the day.

how many compacts can run as 9 speeds? I thought that those were speed specific. I am intrigued!

[aicabsolut]

I don't need to be encouraged to do the hills, that's what I have in most every direction from the house. So when I ride in my area, that's what I have. I usually see improvement by the very next bike ride.

I'm not really struggling right now. I just don't want to spend all that money if it ends up not being suitable.

I don't have a new bike. It's the same bike.

Oh, sorry, I was confusing you with the OP.

So, of course, get a new, lighter, stiffer bike with a compact ;). But seriously, in the long run, that's probably better than upgrading your groupset if you have the $$. If you aren't struggling now, I don't think 2.8 gear inches will be all that noticeable.

[RolliePollie]

RP...I used to live and ride where you live and ride.

I would not give up a triple if I still lived and rode there. I now have a compact double (Campy) for which I built my own custom 12-29 cassette and there are still some days here (where the climbs are different, long and mostly moderate as opposed to short and very steep, which you have a lot of) where I say, out loud, that I just want two more gear inches. No way would I want to ride my current gearing up Slug Gulch or Snows Road.

Why can't you put the triple from your current bike on to the Felt?

Yellow - I haven't tried Slug Gulch or Snows Road yet...I don't think I'd make it! I'm sure you remember Miller Hill...the hill on Cable Rd/Mace Rd...well, that about does me in. I can't imagine riding that hill without my granny gear. I typically go around the long way through downtown Camino to avoid riding it!

So I found out I can probably get Felt to put a triple on the FW15 or FW25. That makes me feel better. Next week, I'm going to go test ride a couple of Felts in Sacramento. I'm hopeful that I'll love them, but we'll see. This thread has awesome info...I'm so glad I asked the question!