man beaten by motorists (not cycling!) [Archive] - Women's Cycling Discussion Forums

mimitabby

07-10-2008, 09:33 AM

Man tending Rainier Beach traffic circle beaten by angry motorist

By HECTOR CASTRO
P-I REPORTER

A Rainier Beach man watering plants in a traffic circle was confronted and badly beaten by motorists angry that he was impeding traffic.

The assault on the 60-year-old man happened around 7:45 p.m. at the intersection of 61st Avenue South and South Cooper Street, Seattle police spokesman Jeff Kappel said.

The man had set up some orange cones in the intersection to divert traffic while he watered the traffic circle, Kappel said.

The cones slowed traffic and caused a backup. One car that was stopped carried a group of young women who confronted the man and demanded he remove the cones.

When the man refused, the women got out of their car and began moving the cones themselves. The man responded by spraying one woman with his garden hose.

At that point, a young man in a gray or blue Ford Contour stepped out of his vehicle, walked up to the man and punched him. The blow sent the man to the ground where he struck his head on the concrete and was rendered unconscious.

The assailant then got in his car and sped off.

Meanwhile, Seattle firefighters were called and ended up transporting the man to Harborview Medical Center with what Kappel said were life-threatening injuries.

The women remained at the scene, talking with police, but the man who struck the victim remains at large, Kappel said.

SadieKate

07-10-2008, 09:47 AM

:confused::confused::confused:

mimitabby

07-10-2008, 09:48 AM

"crazy motorists" (and not only bicyclists are getting harrassed by them)

Blueberry

07-10-2008, 09:49 AM

Has the world lost its collective brain:confused::confused::confused:

SadieKate

07-10-2008, 09:56 AM

jobob

07-10-2008, 10:37 AM

Yikes, the world is scary - Everybody panic !!! :eek:

alpinerabbit

07-10-2008, 11:09 AM

Yikes, the world is scary - Everybody panic !!! :eek:

Every day people post stuff here about people other people don't know. People admit breaking in tears over stories they did not live thru, about people they will never even meet. Why the criticism?

Yes, I am panicking and despairing because of the stupidity, selfishness, and lack of respect for existences other than oneself that are portrayed by these types of stories. Sadly, it seems the mediascape, and the mindscape of the mainstream rotates around sensationalism of this kind. And it's not helping. It's making matters worse.

oxysback

07-10-2008, 11:15 AM

My 2 cents....

I'm sure Mimi posted this because we can sympathise with the poor gardener, and to point out that road rage isn't just directed at cyclists.

I don't understand why people get that angry over a seemingly silly thing. It just takes too much energy to be that angry.

BleeckerSt_Girl

07-10-2008, 11:18 AM

Were you there personally, mimi? Why pick this one act of random nasty behavior out of the gazillion that happen?

I'm sure we all know the world has lost its collective brain. Just trying to figure out why this one is important to you.

I think this news item IS relevant to all us as cyclists- I think there is a weird sense of power and impatience that many people get when driving their cars that they do NOT get when they are walking or bicycling. They want people to get out of their way...FAST, and they get enraged when they don't get their way. They are isolated from humanity in their closed car capsules, it removes the sense of accountability in their minds, and replaces it with a sense of bully power.
Road rage is what I see in this story, and that affects us all here.
Plus, it is very appropriately posted under the forum titled "Crazy Drivers".

SadieKate

07-10-2008, 11:56 AM

I asked mimi why she picked this random nasty act. I'm truly curious why she picked this particular one among the hundreds or thousands that are reported. It was not criticism of her posting the article; it was asking what effect or change or response she hoped to elicit by posting it.

I'm truly confused when people post articles without saying why they think we'd be interested. I can just start randomly posting newspaper articles of violence also but it wouldn't start a dialog about whatever caused me to pick one article from many of essentially the same topic.

I'd like to hear from mimi.

mimitabby

07-10-2008, 12:13 PM

You already did, SadieKate.
This discussion thread is called "CRAZY DRIVERS" I thought that was explanation enough. (didn't you see my post RIGHT UNDER yours??)

Since you apparently didn't understand what Oxysback or BleekerstGirl were saying, i'll say it again.

This thread is about how crazy people are in cars. It's about the fact that it isn't just bicyclists who infuriate motorists and who become the victims of road rage. Isn't that relevant? Well, it is to me, and apparently to others that read it.
And if It isn't relevant to you, why are you reading it?

SadieKate

07-10-2008, 12:19 PM

I know what the article is about. My reading comprehension skills are pretty high.

There are plenty of articles about road rage. We read them frequently in the paper. You still haven't said what is unique about this article. why you picked this one article above all other articles about road rage. That is my question.

Why did this ONE article strike a chord with you?

I'll need to remember that oxysback and BleekerSt_Girl have a mindmeld with you and can speak for you.

jobob

07-10-2008, 12:25 PM

Eh, I usually just ignore threads like this. Better than to dwell on random acts of violence and misfortune.

I can understand posting about some mishap we can learn from, but really, what is there to learn from this? Apart from the fact that the world is a scary place full of nasty people out to get us and we should stay huddled in our cars or in our living rooms in front of the TV sets so that the boogeyman won't get us.

Bah.

Trek420

07-10-2008, 12:42 PM

Yikes, the world is scary - Everybody panic !!! :eek:

Yes, the world's a crazy place. Crazier each day. As I work with the great unwashed public (in my job at the antiques shop) and contact a lot of people. I have theories.

Is it from sitting in cars, in home in front of the idiot box, on the web? Maybe.

Is it education or lack thereof? Maybe.

Are we desensitized by too much Grand Theft Auto games and too few books? Maybe.

Or have people been doing awful stuff since forever and now we're more aware of it? Maybe.

Everybody settle down and have some chocolate. And on a positive note.

Don't panic, get out and ride. Here's some bikes riding for peace, check it out. An Oakland ride to stop guns and violence!!

http://scraperbikes.net

KnottedYet

07-10-2008, 12:51 PM

Wow, Mimi, that's a scary one! And not far from your house, either!

I often see folks out watering those traffic circles (we have them here in North Seattle, just like the ones you've got in South Seattle and Rainier Beach) and just never imagined that kind of response to someone tending the plants!

SouthernBelle

07-10-2008, 01:00 PM

Generally riding in my vehicle does not make me happy. The only exceptions were when I was 16 and first licensed, and when I had my convertible sportscar.

I can find myself really irritated while sitting in traffic wondering if I'm going to run late. I can picture myself mouthing off to somebody.

In the instant case I wondered:

1. If the gardener picked a bad time of day to water, i.e. rush hour;

2. If the women in question were substantially blocked off or just a little inconvenienced;

3. If the last guy really knew what was going on or thought he was rescuing some ladies who were being assaulted.

The trouble with many articles is the reporter often doesn't have the entire story, doesn't report all of it, or doesn't quite grasp all of it.

kelownagirl

07-10-2008, 01:59 PM

Here's another one to add to the collection, Mimi. I do not understand people.

Disabled woman attacked over parking space. (http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2008/07/09/bc-disabled-woman-attacked.html)

crazycanuck

07-10-2008, 02:10 PM

kelownagirl

07-10-2008, 03:01 PM

Trek420

07-10-2008, 03:01 PM

Generally riding in my vehicle does not make me happy. The only exceptions were when I was 16 and first licensed, and when I had my convertible sportscar.

That's it! Each grumpy, tired, angry motorist will be given a convertible sportscar :p problem solved.

In the instant case I wondered:

1. If the gardener picked a bad time of day to water, i.e. rush hour;

Yeah, seems a poor choice of timing. But even a rush hour delay I would not jump out of the car and pummel someone ... I've had some choice words in the privacy of my car when Caltrans picks the worst possible time to do road repair. ;) :rolleyes:

mimitabby

07-10-2008, 03:18 PM

I don't get why we're posting this stuff? It's nothing to do with cyclists..

I could post a gazillion links but THEY"RE NOT ABOUT CYCLISTS getting bashed, mashed or whatever by drivers or pedestrians..

Can we keep it this way please?

actually yes it is. That same man might have attacked a cyclist for being in his way too. Road rage affects more than just cyclists. By focusing on just cyclists, we are really only seeing a small part of the picture. So many gals post on here, oh, it's awful, motorists hate us, it's getting worst. What's getting worst is traffic, and we on our bikes are seen as just another impediment. Non-cyclists are also being brutally attacked, run over, harrassed. The sooner we can see that it's not motorists vs bicycles, it's motorists trapped in metal cans out of control and furious because this vehicle they bought for $30,000 as an instrument of freedom as shown in commercials is NOT an instrument of freedom, it's a big pain in the butt, all they ever do is stop for lights, traffic, men watering flowers, bicycles and pedestrians.

This corner of the forum is called "crazy drivers"
If this little bit of news doesn't fit that category, I'll go eat my raleigh bikes hat.

BleeckerSt_Girl

07-10-2008, 03:18 PM

I don't "get it" either.
Mimi posts a thread called "Man beaten by motorists (not cycling!)" in the CRAZY DRIVERS forum. The news story is about road rage and crazy drivers....HELLO?
So, if she posted the same thread in the OFF TOPIC (non-cycling) forum then it would have been ok? Or is is that she's not supposed to post negative things because some people feel it serves no useful purpose?

Threads are started every day here on TE that have way less to do with cycling than this one, yet the posters are not asked to explain "what effect or change or response they hoped to elicit by posting it" or having to say "why they think we'd be interested". I for one was interested. Others are apparently not. That's fine, so don't read the thread. I also wonder why anyone who feels posting such news stories is merely dwelling on negative or non-productive "sensationalism" would be reading the Crazy Drivers forum anyway. This forum is all about car drivers doing crazy, dangerous, or angry things.
When people here post endless notices about "another cyclist killed by angry driver" or post bloody pictures if injured cyclists- what effect or change or response do THEY hope to elicit by posting it? Half the time, just as with this thread, all we can say is "how awful" or "when will it stop?". We don't really learn much from most of those limited information news stories either, except it might hopefully make us a bit more careful in general. There is some value in that too.

Road rage is a BIG problem for cyclists- it kills cyclists every day. I think that's very relevant to cycling. This story wasn't about some guy stabbing his wife because she cheated on him. I saw it clearly as a story about how car drivers get angry and act out when something gets "in their way" and holds them up. Any dialog about road rage can only be a good thing I'd think. It's good to be aware of the different faces of road rage, and I see no harm in being reminded that it's not always directed at people on bikes.

I'll need to remember that oxysback and BleekerSt_Girl have a mindmeld with you and can speak for you.

As for that all I can say is that I always speak for myself (as indeed I am now), and Mimi has never needed the likes of me or anyone else to speak for her. I really see no need for such sarcasm.

And now I have to go to our local Village Board meeting to attempt (for the third time) to get them to install a couple of bike racks along Main Street.....I'm sure they think of me as "that crazy bike lady".

ttaylor508

07-10-2008, 04:28 PM

I think this article is very relevant (at least to those of us in Seattle) as 9,000+ cyclists will be riding through this neighborhood on Saturday. If one man trying to simply water some plants elicits this kind of road rage, just think what could happen when the surge of cyclists come through their neighborhood. Thanks for the heads up Mimi!!!

Iris616

07-10-2008, 05:09 PM

SadieKate

07-10-2008, 05:28 PM

Hmm, I'm flabbergasted. If mimi recommended a particular book and I asked why it was special to her I think she'd be more than willing to explain. She reads a lot. I think it's great that people read a lot and read broadly.

I ask the same question about a newspaper article and it invokes anger.

I didn't ask about relevancy. I asked her what made the article stand out above hundreds of others on the same topic.

KnottedYet

07-10-2008, 05:35 PM

Mimi-Is there an update on the victim?

These stories should always be relevant, they should make us stop and feel sadness for the victims (and maybe the perpetrator). Heck, that Man is somebodies Dad/husband/son/Grandfather who was injured. That matters in this world.

These stories should also remind us that when dealing with persons who are clearly behaving in an emotionally disturbed manner (in the throes of irrational road rage or other irrational mind-spasms) that our behaviour must remain CALMER and MORE RATIONAL than theirs. Sometimes (often times, as so many of us have experienced) reacting out of our own anger only escalates things.

(obviously everyone in this particular news story was angry, and everyone contributed to the escalation)

BleeckerSt_Girl

07-10-2008, 06:06 PM

These stories should also remind us that when dealing with persons who are clearly behaving in an emotionally disturbed manner (in the throes of irrational road rage or other irrational mind-spasms) that our behaviour must remain CALMER and MORE RATIONAL than theirs. Sometimes (often times, as so many of us have experienced) reacting out of our own anger only escalates things.

(obviously everyone in this particular news story was angry, and everyone contributed to the escalation)

That's a good point, yeah it's true. Hard to do in certain situations, too!

Boise Birder

07-10-2008, 06:07 PM

Mimi, I suspect this struck a chord with you. We've all had that experience - a sense of why did this have to happen, hoping the victim is ok. A little empathy can go a long ways. Mimi, I hope I didn't take too much license with what you were expressing

Biking, walking, shopping or driving, we all face these predicaments. Knotted's suggestion - respond commonly, try to de-escalate the situation, or where necessary, walk way, is a good idea.

I think we all care about each other on this forum. Let's all try to make this world a better, less violent place, no matter what circumstances we face.

Do that, we will all have safer world for biking.

Trek420

07-10-2008, 06:37 PM

Do that, we will all have safer world for biking.

.... and gardening :rolleyes:

Oh, welcome to TE Boise Birder. :D :D

Boise Birder

07-10-2008, 07:04 PM

Love gardening, too! Bugs, too! Can't kill 'em with few exceptions. Sometimes conflicts with the gardening thing.

Another story for another thread.

Anyway, I was born in Seattle area, and still love it (not quite as much as Boise!)

Mimi and others, please keep working to keep, and improve my birthplace as a place that loves and respects all people, and bicycles!

Ok, I'm selfish.

I want to vacation there and enjoy my stay!

salsabike

07-10-2008, 10:23 PM

Mimi-Is there an update on the victim?

He died tonight, Iris. Sorry to have to post that.

Iris616

07-11-2008, 04:39 AM

He died tonight, Iris. Sorry to have to post that.

I'm so sorry to hear that.

It's completely senseless.

Aggie_Ama

07-11-2008, 05:08 AM

He died tonight, Iris. Sorry to have to post that.

This makes me ill. It sounds like the man shouldn't have sprayed the girls with the hose but in no way should he have been beaten to death.

My mother had a co-workers father beaten to death after rear ending someone on IH-35 here. It wasn't even large damage, the cars were driveable. Senseless.

For me all these articles are relevant in raising our awareness of the possibility of others actions. I am not scared of the world but I am aware that people seem to be less understanding of one another than I expect them to be.

BleeckerSt_Girl

07-11-2008, 08:30 AM

It does re-emphasize the need to stay cool when we are confronted by angry motorists.
Poor man. And I bet those women feel pretty badly, they certainly never would have intended that outcome. Let's hope they catch the man who knocked the old man out.

smilingcat

07-11-2008, 09:20 AM

Well now its a homocide. The police better catch the perp. and throw him in jail. Just too much anger and not enough self control.

Our society has gotten so car-centric that crimes commited in a car or car related, the perp. gets away with lot less severeity than with a gun for instance. Run over a pedestrian and kill the person deliverately versus killing a person with a gun. Result for the victim is the same. Yet, the way we treat the driver and the guman is very different. The way its reported, the way the justice system handle the person... Do you think the driver will be in shackles when he goes for arraignment with officers on both side or will he show up without the shackles? And what about the gunman. I think you can see the difference.

The gardner incident here and the Mandeville Canyon incident just highlights the road rage and how dangerous it really is out there. Many of the drivers feel like they have license to cause bodily injury onto others.

We just need to be more mindful and be careful in dealing with angry drivers.

smilingcat

KnottedYet

07-11-2008, 05:42 PM

I was reading the updates on Seattle Post Intelligencer's website during my lunch (things could have changed by now, as more info comes up). The man was watering the plants in the traffic circle at 7:45 p.m. Since it is in a residential neighborhood, and well after rush-hour and dinner-time, there wasn't much traffic. But he had put cones up along his hose out to the garden. The girls in the car didn't want to go around the left side of the garden, they got out and started yelling at him to move the cones. When the girls started moving the cones he squirted them. One of the girls called a friend to come to them and the girls stayed to watch. The friend arrived, punched the older man, then left. The police had already been called by a neighbor before the older man was punched. None of the girls would tell police the friend's name, but his phone number will be in the cell phone record.

The whole situation is just sad.

teigyr

07-11-2008, 06:06 PM

You know, I was out running today and I was looking at the roundabouts and also at our neighborhood. I thought a lot about this story and was very sad because he was someone who was obviously trying to make where he lived a better place. It sounds like he did the right thing by putting up cones and really, any inconvenience to motorists would be a temporary one.

Very sad. They'll get the guy, I am sure of it. For the fact that the girls acted in such hostility really scares me. I could be wrong but it seems like there is more and more violence starting at a much younger age.

MM_QFC!

07-17-2008, 11:44 AM

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/cgi-bin/PrintStory.pl?document_id=2008056239&zsection_id=2003925728&slug=trafficcircle17m&date=20080717

he's in police custody now...link to article in today's Seattle Times here...doesn't look like this is the first time he's been involved in an incident like this either. This time he took a person's life though - the man was watering the flowers in his neighborhood roundabout, f'chrissakes! How awful it is to think that you can't go out near your own home, put up traffic cones and protect passersby from the spray of your hose, even - without worrying about being sucker-punched and dying??? It's grossly inhumane to me; not just another 'accidental' death, you know? whew...:(

Zen

07-17-2008, 01:00 PM

This makes me terribly, indescribably sad.

wannaduacentury

07-17-2008, 03:31 PM

Poor man. And I bet those women feel pretty badly, they certainly never would have intended that outcome. Let's hope they catch the man who knocked the old man out.

If those young ladies had the maturity to just stay in their car and just deal with the traffic, they would have been on their way a lot sooner. The young man should have left him alone as well. As for the older man spraying the girls w/ the waterhose (they probably deserved it) and who hasn't thought of doing that to someone who is just being irrational(even though it isn't right- I know). I'm sorry he died. If they catch the young man who hit him, he'll have to serve time and he'll cool his heels behind bars and have a long time to think. The impatient young ladies(since one of them/the driver-she talked to police) should have to do community service watering flowers and helping keep up the grounds in the city. Teach them some lessons in patience. Regardless of the traffic problem at the moment or why it's there, is no reason to hurt someone. Just my two cents. Jenn

mimitabby

07-17-2008, 03:34 PM

they did catch him. he turned himself in to his minister, with his family. he had been trying to turn his life around. His girlfriend was one of those three girls and she called him to come help, so boy; he did. He wasn't set out to murder someone. But he lost his temper again and lost his freedom again. And another human being died.

Some people never learn.

MM_QFC!

07-17-2008, 04:55 PM

If those young ladies had the maturity to just stay in their car and just deal with the traffic, they would have been on their way a lot sooner. The young man should have left him alone as well. As for the older man spraying the girls w/ the waterhose (they probably deserved it) and who hasn't thought of doing that to someone who is just being irrational(even though it isn't right- I know). I'm sorry he died. If they catch the young man who hit him, he'll have to serve time and he'll cool his heels behind bars and have a long time to think. The impatient young ladies(since one of them/the driver-she talked to police) should have to do community service watering flowers and helping keep up the grounds in the city. Teach them some lessons in patience. Regardless of the traffic problem at the moment or why it's there, is no reason to hurt someone. Just my two cents. Jenn

right, and I posted the link to the newspaper article a bit earlier this afternoon, so you can read about him turning himself in...
+1 to what Mimi said...and I'd also say that those "young ladies" as you termed them, acted anything but ladylike and were lots more than impatient...how about rude and confrontational for starters?
The article cites the police and/or witnesses statements that the (now dead) victim did not provoke their tirade or violence against him and he did not strike back...just disgusting, the whole thing...really, really sickening how some people act towards others and somehow want help in explaining it away...sheesh!

smilingcat

07-18-2008, 08:47 AM

The whole thing is really sad. I really hope they throw the book on the attacker. I could care less about his skin color.

Assailant's action is just so hypocritical. A GOOD CHURCH MEMBER. IN PRAYER before surrendering to the police. What?? If you have the good conscious to be praying and believe in god/religion, you should have a lot more respect to others.

Maybe I'm just really old fashioned in many ways. I dress properly for the office. None of this tank tops/shorts/skorts/athletic wear... Almost always in business appropriate attaire. then again I have to be. Every e-mail starts with proper salutation Dear Sir, Dear Madam, Dear Ms./Mr./Dr. so-and-so. And out on the town same sort of thing...

Here I tend to be very casual, still. Its on very rare occasion you will hear me use profanity or raise my voice. I have no need.

The girls who started the altercation and increased the level of hostility should also be arrested. You just can't go along in life screaming and demeaning other people. Just so self centered.

I wish our country had a mandatory community service for all young people. Help clean the park. Help out the elderly. help out the handicap. And learn about why it is so important to be active in your community in a positive way.

AWWWGGG!!! this is just so maddening.

Thank you with the followup. I would like to have closure on this story. What will he be sentenced with? in-voluntary manslaughter, murder 2... and what will happen to the girls? Can't they be prosecuted with something? anything??

I just can't fathom this cruel twist of fate on the victim.
Smilingcat

PS. my house is on a corner with one street being a narrow one way street. One self centered service guy parked his service truck right in the middle of the road to service one of my neighbor's cable TV. A car came down saw that the street was blocked. She could have made a right on front of my house and detoured down the next street. No. She drives up to the bumper and just layed on her horn for about 10 minutes. Another neighbor came out from his sleep (it was before 8:00AM). She gives him the finger and starts yelling at the sleepy neighbor "Get your F**& car out of the way." Neighbor says its not my car so she starts screaming more obsenity at him and so it went for about 30 minutes. with her laying on the horn for good 20 minutes. The neighbor whose cable was being serviced didn't even bother to come out and check. They didn't want to be bothered. And my partner well... I wish I was there cause I would have called the police. Had the service truck ticketed, and girl a ticket for disturbing the peace...

Aggie_Ama

07-18-2008, 09:15 AM

I found quite a bit of irony in the whole "praying, etc..." Sorry to be callous but he was doing it to look favorable to the media/judge/jury whoever. Through the book at him!

teigyr

07-18-2008, 05:30 PM

I know enough to not automatically believe all media (because their information can be limited AND sometimes they run to sensationalism) but there is something that disturbs me about the girls admission. They WAITED there? Not to mention that one of them told the guy, who had a history of crimes and violence, that there was an altercation and where it had happened.

I think that if I was peeved at someone and I told a friend/boyfriend about it, knowing that he was predisposed to violence and he might act out, that I would be equally guilty if something were to happen.

We get roadblocks all the time up here. We also get people gardening in the roundabouts. It isn't that big of a deal. You go around the other side and the areas that have the roundabouts aren't big huge streets. They are smaller neighborhood streets that might have traffic but it isn't like the traffic is heinous and non-stop. People go on the wrong side of the roundabout all the time even if there isn't a roadblock just out of laziness or convenience, too.

The more I hear about this case, the more it bothers me. I also am starting to think the girls manipulated the guy because they wanted revenge.

I know I can't obsess over the whole thing but it's scary to think that somehow you can make the wrong person angry and die over it.

MM_QFC!

07-29-2008, 09:44 AM

...he was charged with 2nd degree murder; yesterday he entered a plea of "not guilty"...he caused a man's death with his sucker punch, then ran away from it all...so I wonder who he thinks IS guilty or responsible??:(

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008078712_trafficcircle29m.html

wannaduacentury

07-29-2008, 03:33 PM

right, and I posted the link to the newspaper article a bit earlier this afternoon, so you can read about him turning himself in...
+1 to what Mimi said...and I'd also say that those "young ladies" as you termed them, acted anything but ladylike and were lots more than impatient...how about rude and confrontational for starters?
The article cites the police and/or witnesses statements that the (now dead) victim did not provoke their tirade or violence against him and he did not strike back...just disgusting, the whole thing...really, really sickening how some people act towards others and somehow want help in explaining it away...sheesh!

I agree, it should have never happened, and he would still be alive. Very sad indeed. Jenn

Flur

07-29-2008, 05:41 PM

Wow. The first article posted just disgusted me. But the second article.... He prayed?!? They contacted the NAACP?? WHAT?? He killed a man, and he thinks he deserves the support of the NAACP?!?!? It seemed like the author felt sorry for the guy that did the punching. That made me feel a bit ill.

Granted, my understanding of the situation is based on the articles posted, but it sounds like the guy showed up, punched the poor man watering the circle, and left. That sounds like premeditated violence to me. And he has a history of violence, so it's not like he doesn't know his own strength. I hope they prosecute him to the fullest extent of the law. And the girl that called him too - she's an accessory and should also be prosecuted.

mimitabby

07-29-2008, 05:51 PM

well, Flur, I agree about the girls, they should be considered accessories, but they were released. The puncher is going to jail for a long time, but you must understand, he had good reason to be afraid of turning himself in, it's not a good thing to be a black man sometimes when it comes to dealing with the police.
(or a bicyclist either for that matter!!! :eek::eek: )

but he DOES have a history of violence, so he won't be seeing the light of day anytime soon. And someone is dead bottom line, and the community is mourning. An ironic aside, when the bad guy's pastor moved to the neighborhood, Paroline (the man that died) gave her some perennials that are still blooming in her garden...