The Economy

[Mr. Bloom]

As a banker, I have a particular interest in how people are feeling the effects of the economy. As the chinese curse goes..."may you live in interesting times"...and interesting times we have...

So, without political rants etc, please share your feelings about the current state of the economy. Are you:

- Concerned and changing behaviors
- Concerned but no big changes
- Neutral or unaffected
- Good but not great
- Great - never been better

Poll votes are not public...although posted comments are.

[Dogmama]

Mr. Silver - I can tell you are concerned. Your post was time stamped 2:25 AM!

I'm watching what I buy in the grocery store. Before, my mantra was, "Doesn't matter what it costs - I need/want it." Going to Costco more. Even downgraded vacation plans from a suite to a regular room (don't cry for me, I'm going to San Fran in August to escape Tucson heat) - we don't go often so I like to splurge - but not this year.

I retired a year ago, so my income is set. I also bought an SUV. Great timing, eh?

[Aggie_Ama]

Lets see property tax dropped (yippee) but mortgage company misfigured escrow and doesn't review until June (boo). Our house payment went up $150 to make sure we can cover tax and insurance in December. Garbage collection and electric went up due to cost of gas. Food is outrageous, luckily my in-laws raise cattle and we get a lot of free beef when we can go see them. We are getting to make the trip a lot less though and that hurts.

We have bought commuter bikes and are saving $40 a week on gas in the Dodge truck my husband drives. Also saving $10-15 on my little fuel efficient Dodge Caliber. We combine trips, walk, ride or just don't go sometimes. We are taking a vacation to Red River but staying in a budget hotel, not higher end.

My company will likely not be able to do raises but luckily DH's did and gave him a nice bonus even though their industry is starting to feel the pinch.

[Crankin]

Well, I wouldn't say that we are really negatively affected, but we have changed some things because we are concerned. First, my husband bought a Miatta to drive instead of his SUV. He always wanted a 2 seater car, so now he uses it all the time when the weather is good. We didn't sell the SUV, because we need it to haul bikes, canoe, and most importantly, get up our street in the winter. Yes, we are fortunate that we can afford to buy a 3d car. So far, the savings have been good. The Miatta got 31 mpg last fill up as opposed to about 16 for the SUV.
We are keeping our vacations local and short. Our "big" trip this year is a 4 day bike tour/camping trip from Concord to Northampton. We turned down an invite to do a tour in Canada with friends.
My husband rides his bike to work 2 days a week in the nice weather.
I am no longer working. I plan my shopping trips/errands more now, so I am not wasting gas. My car gets about 20 mpg, not horrible, but not great, either. But, it's a small luxury car that is 5 years old and only has 45,000 miles on it. I fill up about once every 10 days to 2 weeks.
I ride my hybrid bike to the gym, doctor appointments, some errands at least once a week. I also try to shop at local farm stands at this time of the year during these trips.
When I go back to school in the fall, I will drive to the commuter rail (5 miles), park in a free lot provided by the grocery store, and take the train to Cambridge. My classes are in the late afternoon and evening, so I don't want to ride my bike home in the dark.
These aren't huge things, but they are changes.

[short cut sally]

I would love to ride my bike to work but coming home after midnight is not my cup of tea after working 12 hour shift. My DH and I each have diesel trucks, do I need one? no but I love the security of being in a truck after having an accident in a car. I've limited my trips down town and how much I spend at the grocery store. I am contemplating buying a rack for my bike so I can pick up all the pop cans I see along the road to put towards next years cycling events and pick up a thing or two at the store-its on my order list so it will be soon. I am cutting down on some things, however, just bought a new pair of Sidi's. Somehow, cycling is an addiction that I can't give up on yet. I'm not sure where the economy is going, but I don't think it's for the better. I keep asking if there is going to be a depression, DH thinks I'm crazy. Hey, it could happen-couldn't it? DH has his own business, this will be the first year he hasn't bought a new piece of equipment, as much as he would like to, but he says he just wants to get ahead on all his payments because he thinks next year he might be helping me do housework. He's not turning any jobs down now for fear that next year will be slow d/t the economy. He does excavating/ponds/new house sites,etc

[DDH]

We haven't changed drastically, but I always try to incorporate all my running in one day and make one big circle. My husband has bought a motorcycle to commute and do errands with to save gas.
Everything has gone up, Our Electric bill is double (literally) than it was 2 years ago and most months I am using less electricity.
Groceries are outrages now, I mean I'm paying more for a gallon of milk than I do for Gasoline. We hunt so I don't buy a lot of meat anyway, but it doesn't seem to change what I have to write the check out for in the end.

I'm thinking of changing my investments to be all bonds and get everything out of the stock market for now. I've lost so much money in stocks it's pathetic, and I don't have anymore going into it, so I cannot continue to lose money. After a while there won't be anything left.

It has me concerned, but I haven't made significant changes, just little things here and there.

[Veronica]

We both work for economically unaffected employers. However, because Thom took six months off last year so we could travel through summer, we've become somewhat cost conscious. We want to build up that reserve so we can do it again. :) We're not doing any traveling this summer because I have a big event coming up in August that I'm training for.

We don't get bonuses in my line of work. With California's woes I'm not even sure we're going to get a COLA raise this year. Thom did just get a bonus for something he created and I expect he'll get a raise.

Thom started commuting by motorcycle a couple of years ago, more to save time than gas. I usually ride my bike to work. Although because of my hamstring issue and training for this tri I did drive more this spring than normal. My job is only 1.6 miles away by car though. I actually make it longer when I ride. :)

V.

[Mr. SR500]

My little business is really suffering, it's sort of off-season (winter months are my best), but sales are way off. Some is related to my current product mix, but I believe a large portion is the economy and people not spending money like they were 6 months ago.

I know, we've tried to save were we can. We traded my VW for a Honda Civic and more then doubled our mpg.

[Becky]

We both work for economically unaffected employers. However, because Thom took six months off last year so we could travel through summer, we've become somewhat cost conscious. We want to build up that reserve so we can do it again. :) We're not doing any traveling this summer because I have a big event coming up in August that I'm training for.

We don't get bonuses in my line of work. With California's woes I'm not even sure we're going to get a COLA raise this year.

Sounds like gub'mint to me :D DH and I are fortunate that, even though neither of us have seen a raise in 2 years, we're unlikely to get laid off. The worst that we'll hopefully weather job-wise is the current hiring freeze, which means heavier caseloads for everyone in the short-term.

We're commuting by bike as much as possible and we've both changed our driving habits a little. I've always done my best to combine errands into one big trip- a carryover from my days of living in a more rural area, I guess. I'm not looking forward to what heating season will bring, but at least we can still afford heating oil and I'm grateful for that.

[beccaB]

We've changed our driving habits as much as possible and tightened up the budget elsewhere. I'm getting to be a tightwad, and I'm concerned about always having to live like this. I don't earn a lot, and my husband isn't getting any overtime and no raises in the forseeable future. I have one kid in college, and we'll be trying to help her pay the interest on her student loans, and I'm concerned about that. I might have to lower my standards when it comes to beer! (Oh No-anything but that!)

[Geonz]

I'm giving a bit more to help the more folks having harder times... I had already sold the car and not because of hte economy; simply because my brother needed it and right now I don't need one here.
I'm also going to rent a car and do about twice as much traveling as most years, and in part because things seem uncertain so I may not be able to later. Driving 2000 miles will cost a *lot* more than it would have last year... but next year it could be simply out of sight. If not, fine :)
I stuck money (from selling the car) in CD's thinking interest rates didn't look like they were going up.
I've continued to pay that extra principal on the mortgage ... but not quite as much 'cause if I were to lose my job I'd need to be paying the regular payments.
Simply because of the way my lifestyle interacts with things, the most honest assessment of my personal economy is never been better... but I *know* that's not reflective of the rest of the world.

[Trek420]

The news is full off tips/tricks things to do to get by in the economy. I already do most of those things :o :o:o People saving the most by riding to work are your weekend warrior who thinks "I've already got the gear, why not bike to work" But I've been doing this for years in Spring/Summer so this is normal for my budget. Public transit? Fairly fuel efficient vehicle? Link/efficient errands? Chose a house near transit options? Doing it already.

I've applied to have my property taxes lowered, I feel bad about it because I know my county needs the revenue. Can someone tell them I'm pouring it back into the local economy with the remodel.

Speaking of remodel, when I set out to do this thang I looked forward to sell for almost double what I paid. I found a home well below market value which is lucky for me. The way things look now I might break even or even loose a little if I sold right when I'm done. :(

Anyone want a newly remodeled condo within 2 bikeable miles to BART/Amtrack?

[LBTC]

I promise I'll read the rest of the posts later... :)

We've been in money preserving mode since we uprooted ourselves 2 years ago. We're almost making the same income we were then, and our mortgage payment is a lot higher.

That said, while I think we all need to be careful with our resources in whichever way works best for us, I think the economic doomsayers really are a whole lot of hype. Everything from the price of gas to the price of food is where it is because of speculation. Really, it makes me kind of sick thinking about it, that greedy people are affecting so many people in a real way. My way of fighting back: Within reason, keep spending. Somebody has to keep the economy going. :D

As an aside - we purposely bought a house in a neighbourhood close enough for me to walk to work. DH ended up with a job a bit further away, but he rides his bike a few days a week. We do that mostly because we want to, not so much because of the "economy".

Of course, we are in Canada, where the economy is being affected by the US economy, but isn't in the same state.

Hugs and butterflies,
~T~

[Thorn]

Changes? Not really. Like Trek, we've pretty much been doing the savings things all along. And, like, Geonz, making sure not to forget the people in need.

So, I still don't skimp on food (thank goodnes farmers market season is approaching) as I still believe that eating good food (healthy, not rich) is the most important priority on spending. I'm veggie, so short of giving up my organic produce (no way) or artisan cheeses (OK, maybe) there aren't a lot of savings to be made there.

But DH is now driving my car when I work at home because it gets better gas mileage. And, I now justify driving like a grandma at the speed limit because I can see that it boosts my gas mileage by about 5%.

However, bad timing for us, but perhaps good timing for the contractors, we've got a lot of work to do on the house. So, we're scheduling those tasks now. That means no money goes into savings (sorry Mr Silver the Banker) and, while the costs may be higher right now, I look at it as my little bit to keep the economy going.

[tulip]

I have a sweet little bungalow under contract, and my mortgage payment will be $400 less than my current rent! Still a few hoops to jump through to get to closing though, so I'm not counting my chicks yet. If all goes well, I'll be in there in August. It's a good time to be a buyer.

My work is going strong. I develop affordable housing for people with special needs, and that is always in demand. My side job is garden design, and that tends to fall off when folks don't have extra money to spend.

I work from home so I don't use my car too much, but I still don't like going to the pump.

I went to France in May and that was a tough economic pill to swallow. But I had a good time.

The past couple of years have been lower income for me by choice. I chose to work part-time after moving from DC to Richmond (much lower housing costs). I needed a rest. Now I'm back to full-time, but it's from home and flexible.

At the risk of riling up the masses here who have very resolute principles on the topic, my family owns farmland in Louisiana and the oil companies are going gangbusters to drill, drill, drill, and that could have economic benefits for us (we have the upper hand in demanding higher lease payments and royalties from they oil companies--I say that's okay.)

[Pax]

We don't live extravagantly and we just bought a house that was 1/3 less than we planned (so we can pay it off in eight years). Right now we're in better financial shape than we've ever been...but it took seven years of careful planning to get here.

[Veronica]

I do have to say I am seeing the effects at work. Two of my students this past year talked about having to give away their dogs because they had to move out of their houses.

We are no longer going to have a full time library assistant. We have never had a librarian.

Our night time custodian will only be at our school half of his hours. Our classrooms will only be cleaned once a week now rather than 2 - 3 times.

We lost two teaching positions, one at primary and 1 at intermediate. I am not surprised by the primary one - many of those classes had 15 - 18 students. Twenty is their max. However at intermediate we all had classes of 34. I am looking at 36+ students in my class right now when we start up in late August. We don't have a max. :mad: I am sure they are all well mannered children, eager and ready to learn. All of them have mastered the prior grade's curriculum. And all are fluent English speakers. And my test scores will be just fine. :rolleyes:

Field trips are becoming impossible to take. You have to pay for the bus, if you can get one, plus the cost of wherever it is you are going. Or you can have parents drive. But they have to have this huge amount of insurance and fill out a gazillion forms all in triplicate. It's such a hassle! Many of them don't have that much insurance. I am getting more and more families telling me that they can't afford to pay for the trips. It makes it hard. You want to give your students some exposure to culture and history, but how do you fund it?

You don't want to know how much of my own money gets spent in my classroom. It is not a trivial amount. I am lucky and so are my students, that we can afford it.

V.

[smilingcat]

We have been getting ready for the market to crash. My one and only active credit card is getting far less usage. My internet account is paid from(through) the credit card and only other charges are for my work which I get reimbursed. I do have a second CC but it gets no usage and stored safely away in a safe deposit box. My retirement account has been all transferred to bond funds and very little in stocks. And my stocks investments have been liquidated and now sitting safely in cash. I'm being a real bear.

No carryover in credit card debt, only debt I have is my mortgage. This will be gone in about 7 years. Also have line of credit, this too will be gone in about 5 years. No car payments.

on conservation side of things:

We are installing a hot water heater (finally) to help with my utility bills. And I would expect it will pay for itself in under 3 years maybe 5.

replaced almost all the lights in the house with CFL's

We've also ripped out the front yard and replanted with vegetables and flowers (so it looks pretty). Have bell (capsicum) peppers, okra, heirloom cucumbers, heirloom tomatoes, string beans, snow peas, chinese long beans, egg plants, zucchini, yellow squash, herbs, different kinds of lettuce... A miniature farm. We are glad we did this cause of the tomato scare with salmonella.

finally getting rid of my land line telephone to save another $25/mo and will be strictly wireless. No cable, no satellite, no TV! My partner and I enjoy not having a TV. We do listen to radio though. Don't even bother with newspaper when I can read things like Der Spiegel, BBC news on the internet. Lets not talk politics okay :D

and lastly, I'm being a real tightwad. Conserving as much cash as possible. If I could exchange my cash into Euros I would.

smilingcat

[Becky]

We have been getting ready for the market to crash. My one and only active credit card is getting far less usage. My internet account is paid from(through) the credit card and only other charges are for my work which I get reimbursed. I do have a second CC but it gets no usage and stored safely away in a safe deposit box. My retirement account has been all transferred to bond funds and very little in stocks. And my stocks investments have been liquidated and now sitting safely in cash. I'm being a real bear.

Good point about investments. I struggle with the idea of what to do with my retirement accounts. I'm not a super-agressive investor, but I'm easily 25 years from retirement, so a good chunk is in stocks. Do I temporarily move things to more conservative funds, or do I ride this out? I really should call my financial guy ("financial panther" for you Simpsons fans :D), but I'm curious what y'all think.

[Blueberry]

Good point about investments. I struggle with the idea of what to do with my retirement accounts. I'm not a super-agressive investor, but I'm easily 25 years from retirement, so a good chunk is in stocks. Do I temporarily move things to more conservative funds, or do I ride this out? I really should call my financial guy ("financial panther" for you Simpsons fans :D), but I'm curious what y'all think.

Make sure your portfolio is adequately diversified (international, mix of domestic stocks, appropriate level of bonds) and ride it out. Least that's what my financial guy is telling me:)

CA

[PrincessAna]

DH and I are doing okay. We already had a fair amount of slack in our budget, so basically we buy less fun stuff to pay the increased prices for gas, food, etc.

I do find the current economic situation frustrating though. DH and I live somewhat conservatively so we can indulge in new toys (We're a couple of tech geeks :) ), bike stuff for me, sports apparel for him (How many hockey jerseys does one guy need?!?), weekends out of town, and so on. As prices keep rising, our conservative lifestyle is paying off less and becoming more of a necessity. And I don't know if things will every really turn around. The stock market may go up, but are food prices ever really going to return to something more normal? Gas prices didn't after Hurricane Katrina. That's my real worry, that everything that's going on now will just set a new standard for pricing, rather than being a temporary hike.

Anastasia

[smilingcat]

Hi,

I'm not a licensed broker so I can't give you any advice. my ex was a stock broker turned into a bum whole another story... anyway, read as much as you can and play a game in your head of what if games and see how the market will react in your head. And invest/position yourself in a way so that if the market does act the way you think, you will make money. You have to make your money work for you. The same man stressed in "don't trade in small quantities". You have to invest real money to make money. And you will lose real money too. But the game is to make more in the long run.

If you are looking for a long term investment with reasonable return ( I compare it to the interest rates available from the bank) and if the divident paying out is more than 3% today, you are better off with the investment. However, if you think the value of the stock drops you will come up short in the long run.

As for riding it out, I haven't bought into that idea. Why not dump it and wait until it drops then buy it back? then again you have to decide if paying out for the capital gains tax is worth while or not. Generally, if the stock doesn't tank more than 30% its not worth dumping because of the capital gain. If dumping the stock then buying back atleast "30% cheaper of your capital gain" then you are better off riding it out. so lets say you bought the stock at $10.00 and went up to $20.00 then you thought the market is going to tank so you sell. Your capital gain is $10.00 so you have to pay $3.00 in tax. To come out even, the stock must lose $3.00 or go down to less than $17.00 to make it worthwhile to sell, If the stock stays above $17.00, then you are better off holding onto the stock.

Another important concept is don't try to sell at its peak!! I've been told that "pig out and you will get roasted."

just some thoughts.

Smilingcat

[maillotpois]

We saw a pretty substantial drop in income last year (about 1/3) from prior years just due to issues involved with working for/owning small law firms. SO we did some serious belt tightening then. This year looks to be better, but I have a constant gut wrenching stress level about our financial situation and the economy as a whole.

Changes?

I'm working at home more. Driving to the office, with bridge toll, probably costs $15 - 20. So I only go in once a week. I am using the motorcycle more. DH is cycling to work more and more.

No big trips planned for this year (Of course Bend is a HUGE trip. :D ). But we're not taking any expensive vacations. (We are planning Hawaii in February, though.)

And I want to know who voted "never better" !!! :p

[indysteel]

I'm "lucky" in that, as part of the federal bankruptcy system, my job is very secure in times of economic trouble. That said, I'm doing what I can do to limit my gas consumption but given that my car is over 7 years old and only has 40,000 miles on it as is, I don't drive much anyway. I've always been a saver, too, so that's not going to change. Boom or bust, I live well under my means, just so that I can one day buy a pair of unnecessary red shoes!

I just read in one of my professional journals of a poll indicating that 85% of us think we're in a recession.

[GLC1968]

To be perfectly honest, we are quite concerned and are making some pretty major changes. The first was a move across the country. The second was buying a house with a little land but keeping the mortgage well below what our salaries say we 'should' be able to afford. We also picked a home that was still bike commutable (barely!) to both of our places of employments. We are growing a lot...veggies, fruit trees (came with the property), herbs, etc. We are having insulation levels checked and solar estimates (both hot water and PV) done. We are selling the second car, selling much of our excess 'stuff' and generally working to downsize and to conserve. We don't use credit cards, we are paying extra on our mortgage (or we will, once we start paying it!) and on the other car, and we are trying to get debt free. We are also building a chicken coop this weekend and getting our own chickens!

Personally, I believe things are going to get much worse before they get better, so we are trying to prepare as best we can.

[Trek420]

I just read in one of my professional journals of a poll indicating that 85% of us think we're in a recession.

You know how to tell the difference between the depression and a recession?

It's a recession when your friend lost their job.
It's the depression when it's your job.

These are tough times. Interesting times as Mr Silver says. And I agree with Geonz and others that now's the time to help others who may have it tougher than you.

[spokewench]

I bought a 50cc scooter to save gas to and from work - and for other small trips;
I drive my other vehicles less; think a lot more before taking a trip and sometimes take the motorcycle instead of car if I can;
I really watch my spending at the grocery store;

We have always watched our money cause both my husband and I are part time. So, we changed our life style a while ago to be able to not work full time; so we have changed a few things and are a little more conscious of how we spend money, but we have been this way before because of our lifestyle. we are just tightening the belt a little more now.

spoke

[Tuckervill]

One thing is for sure, now is the time to BUY and not to sell! Sometimes we're forced to sell when we don't want to, but if you can avoid it, do so.

We've been fortunate enough to have seen this coming from a long way off, five years ago we relocate to a cheaper area, with a better paying job. We cut our fixed expenses (mortgage, debt, cars) to one salary's worth, and that salary being pretty low for our prior lives. When the bonuses and profit share come around, we're usually pretty set (although I do have a car payment now because of my wreck in 06.)

We stopped going to town so much, and when we do, we bite the bullet and try to get it all done in one trip. This sometimes is annoying because the boy does not want to wait for me at the hair salon. But, if he wants to go to the mall on this trip, we'll have to compromise.

I ride my bike for errands and such. I've noticed I'm not the only one. We bought a Civic for the boy from one of our other boys, but he's not legal for another year and a half, so we drive it as much as possible.

Here's a sign of the times. Youngest boy bought a scooter for himself. It broke, under warranty, so we took it to the shop. It's been there for THREE weeks, because the shop is so snowed under, just SELLING scooters.

Karen

[sundial]

We try to be good stewards of what we have. We are making fewer trips to town in the car, hubby bought a motorcycle to ride to work, we're not going to the movies as often (which the drive is 100 miles round trip), I've started cooking from scratch again, and we're riding our bikes more often--which serves as both exercise and entertainment.

[Melalvai]

Like Geonz, never been better, but that is because of personal lifestyle changes recently unrelated to the economy. We realized a) we don't need a new car (nor do we need to sell our existing car) and b) that credit cards are the biggest ripoff in the world.

[CATWOMAN]

We have certainly tightened up our errands to be most efficient. I get sick of doing so many things in one trip, but I keep telling myself I have to do it that way.

We gave my Camry to my son to drive to Texas for his internship; that means my husband (What does DH stand for anyway?) now drives my son's old Civic since he commutes 35 miles to work. No option there. I'm a teacher so it is more important that my arrival is not dependent on traffic. Teachers are expected to be ready for the kids, no excuses!

We feel the education crunch for sure with 2 kids in college and my husband in grad school! Our best defense right now was to change the way our "savings" are handled in order to shield us more from taxes, which take our vacation money every DAMN year:mad: I'm hoping that in the next two years we will be able to breathe a little between paychecks. Ha!

I wish I felt that I could cycle to work, simply for the exercise; there again being a teacher I bring a lot, a lot, A LOT of stuff home. I also don't think the principal would appreciate me coming to work all sweaty. I figure I live 2 miles from work and wouldn't be saving that much gas. Thirty-five miles is a bit far for my husband to cycle. Although he does leave before the sun smiles on us each day to avoid sitting in traffic burning gas.

We are sweating around the house, even though he swears the air conditioner is on. I imagine we will wear a lot more clothing this winter to avoid higher fuel costs. Some people don't have heat at all, so we will live just fine if we are a little less than comfortable.

So far we haven't given up Starbucks yet; we've cut back, but not quit:D

Interesting comments from everyone. I enjoyed them.

[Veronica]

I teach and my principal loves that I ride to work most days. It sets a great example for the kids. My ride is a little over two miles and I just don't ride very hard on the way to work, to avoid getting sweaty. I choose to ride up a big hill on the way home, so I'm always sweaty when I get home. :p

I have a rack and a bag on the back of my bike. When I bought the bag I took my Social Studies book with me, since it was my biggest textbook, to make sure it fit. Funny, we don't use that textbook series anymore.

I do evaluate whether or not I'm REALLY going to need to take certain things home.

V.

[jesvetmed]

I'm an ER Vet. This used to be a crazy time at work, but it is very average now. I have definitely noticed a change in the number of people with call about pets that SHOULD be seen, but don't come after talking to us. As a result, my bonus has been lower, and my hours are less.

DH is a teacher. They made huge cuts in staff and are reorganizing. Most now are teaching out of their area of expertise... he is an art teacher. Next year 1/3 of his classes will be history? Sadly, the students will be the ones paying for this -- try as he might, he is not going to muster excitement or expertise on American History in the next 6 weeks.

We drive less and combine trips -- I'm looking to buy a commuter bike. Not replacing my car tho most would! We replaced light bulbs and got a more efficient heater.

Grocery shopping is hard for me -- could spend less, but at the cost of nutrition. I try to buy more things are on sale. Honestly, I've never paid much attention to how much each item costs.

I try not to buy my coffee daily -- 3x weekly is the new goal. Travel is down. I'm saving for a couple big trips so will likely cut out the smaller fun trips as a trade-off. Still stuffing retirement money into the funds at same rate, but have considered cutting back in order to get down payment on a home.

All in all, we really live fairly comfortably, just not extravagantly. We could be MUCH tighter, but life would be duller!:rolleyes:

[Tuckervill]

Last year we took two 5,000 mile trips. This year, we're cutting back to one. ;)

Seriously, though, 2 trips was more a one-time thing. Son and I have been taking long car trips since he was little, because I want him to see the world, not just the inside of a classroom. This year might be our last, though. (He'll be 15 in November. gulp.) He's going to online high school this year, and will probably have a job in the fall (he's already a bat boy for a minor league baseball team, but that ends in September). So, he's going to start having a real life, without me, boo hoo, and so I don't know when we'll find the time to just take off and go like we're used to doing.

Gas prices have already curtailed many weekend trips.

I looked at hotel rooms outside NYC last night. (We're going to Vermont in September and we're going to see the Yankees play in Yankee Stadium since we'll be "in the 'hood".) Those hotel rates are a big ouchie and now I don't know what I'll cut out of the trip (4 weeks long) to make it work. We usually camp out at KOA cabins, to afford these trips. Gas will really take a bite out of things.

But, he only has one childhood, and I don't plan on cutting much else out of this trip for that very reason. It may be our last rodeo.

Karen

[Crankin]

These different points of view are all interesting. Although we have made the changes I discussed in an earlier post, things really have never been better for us. My husband works for a company that makes a profit every quarter, He makes a great salary and gets unbelievable bonuses. While we could save a lot more, we haven't been willing to cut our lifestyle that much! I have to decide what to do with the money I left in the state retirement fund when I quit my teaching job. I don't qualify to get a pension now as I was 3 years short of having 20 years here and I withdrew my money from the retirement plan in AZ when we moved, so I can't count those years. We needed it to buy our house here and I do not regret that. If I leave the money in there until I'm 62, I know how much I'll get and it's OK. On the other hand, I feel like if I take it out and invest it myself, I could probably do better. My husband will probably work for at least 10 more years and I figure I have about 5-10 years of working in my new career when I finish school in 3 years. But, most of that will be part time. Also, if I take my pension, I only get about 1/4 of the Social Security I put in when I taught in AZ. because our pension is so high we don't participate in Social Security. One of the things that worries me is that if my husband dies while I am getting the pension, I can't get HIS SS income either and that is a considerable amount. He has plenty of insurance and a a decent 401K, but it pisses me off that the government thinks this is "double dipping," because I live in a state with good pensions for public employees.
We don't have any debt except for our house and the second mortgage we took to remodel. We sold our last house at the peak of the boom in 2005 and got this house for a decent price. We have spent a lot remodeling, but we plan on staying here another 10-12 years. Prices stay somewhat stable here, since it is a desirable town to live in. We spent a lot making our house energy efficient and it is paying off. Our gas and electric bills are half of our neighbor's.

[Zen]

I am single and will likely stay that way. No "DH" to augment my income.
I live off of my disability retirement and the small amount I make from a part time job.
I have a house that is badly in need of repair and I'm hoping to sell it and move in to town.
I have to do all my errands on one or two days, there is no going in to town for one thing only. I can't afford to drive to the gym just to go to the gym. I haven't been to the gym in ages.
Food and fuel prices are rising faster than my salary ever will. This is especially hard for people who live in rural areas.

The sampling of your poll is somewhat skewed. Cycling can be an expensive sport.
The answers you would get from the general populace are far different than those you'll get here.

[Blueberry]

The sampling of your poll is somewhat skewed. Cycling can be an expensive sport.
The answers you would get from the general populace are far different than those you'll get here.

I definitely agree with this. Folks who post at a minimum either live close enough to public internet (e.g. a library) or have a computer/internet connection at home. That, right there, skews the poll. Then you add in cycling as an expensive sport, and even more skew. I have lots of relatives who are hurting. The scary thing is that there isn't more out there about the people who are really hurting. I know they're out there. However, even in this group, most still think the economy is in bad shape and have made major changes (I know we have). That should tell us something...

CA

[RolliePollie]

Like Zen, I'm single and it's just my income, which is nothing to brag about. What scares me is that I've already been living a very frugal life and I am not exaggerating when I say there isn't much else to cut back on. I don't have cable TV, my cell phone is a pre-paid that I never use, and I have dial-up internet. I don't smoke, I don't drink (much), I don't have a Starbucks habit, I rarely go out to dinner, and I shop at Grocery Outlet, which is the coolest grocery store ever (if you have one in your town, check it out!). I don't have air conditioning, last winter I kept my thermostat at 61 degrees, and I wash my clothes in cold and hang them to dry. I want to buy a new bike, but I guess I better get my priorities straight and make sure I can afford to heat my house next winter! I'm even a frugal cyclist. My Trek 1000 WSD (the cheapest Trek road bike) has 4,000 miles on it and I still have the original chain. And I've got 2,000 miles on my current tires. I got a $50 REI gift card for opening one of their credit cards and I'm going to use that to buy tires. Oh, and I always pay off my credit cards every month!

The main change I've made is doing errands after work when I'm already in town and pretty much not driving anywhere else if I can help it. I'm trying desperately to make it on $50 a week in gas, but I'm failing. I drive a Jeep Liberty and it gets horrible mileage. But I own it outright and don't have a car payment, so after running the numbers, it makes the most sense to just keep it. Plus I live in the mountains where it snows and I need 4 wheel drive. I would commute on my bike, but it's just not realistic. It's too far, too hilly, too dangerous, and takes too long. I live in a very rural area so public transportation is not an option either.

I also agree that this poll is probably skewed. I work for County government and my office is in the welfare building. Every morning, there is a line outside the door...and each week, it gets longer and longer. They open the doors at 8 am and my coworkers tell me people start lining up before 7:00. I've heard caseworkers talking about people who were in tears because they were so embarassed to be asking for assistance. I think a lot of folks out there are getting very desperate.

[Trek420]

I The sampling of your poll is somewhat skewed. Cycling can be an expensive sport.
The answers you would get from the general populace are far different than those you'll get here.

*1. I've felt with few exceptions this is a DINK sport (double income, not a lot of kids) and a middle class or higher sport to boot. And I fear as a group (the sport) we don't deal with class issues well. :o

Most of us here are fairly educated and may have options and access to information others don't. Obviously all here have access to internet. :cool: which can save a lot.

I mean look at us here. A quick glance at this board and we're debating which Ti frame to get, which week long training camp to go to, this supplement or that one ... I just got off work where I've been talking to folks who debate whether to get gas for their work, food or medicine.

Yes we all have hard choices to make but most here have it fairly good.

If you think you're hurting consider how this is for others with lower income and or fewer options.

One thing I feel strongly about and not to politicize this thread is we have an opportunity which as a country we'd be fools to miss. I forget the article I read, think it was Will Durst, a comedian I like who talked about this well.

We have the chance to both help people and solve the climate crisis. If we don't take this chance we're fools and deserve whatever flood happens. Do I mean public works programs like the WPA that train people and energy retrofit the homes of those who can least afford to do that themselves? Maybe.

Do I mean entrepreneurs and small businesses take it up, make goo-gobs of money and create green jobs? Maybe.

Do I mean that we donate to charities and non-profits that provide bikes for those who can least afford them? Like here's one:

www.rubarbike.org

Maybe :rolleyes:

Do we translate all this info, bike safety tips and tricks to other languages and do outreach to other communities including invisible cyclists? Maybe.

Do I mean we have coalition with the disabled public who need safe transit options and public transportation as much or more than we do to create a huge movement that helps us both? Anyone here can be disabled in a heart beat so we should be working together. Maybe.

[KnottedYet]

Do I mean that we donate to charities and non-profits that provide bikes for those who can least afford them? Like here's one:

www.rubarbike.org

Maybe :rolleyes:

And BikeWorks in Seattle: www.bikeworks.org

[jesvetmed]

Well said Trek and Knott!!!!!!

This is a time when giving to others gets harder, and it's the most important time to remember it. Whatever the cause may be.

I TOTALLY agree with your points about time for change! Whatever that means to you, PLEASE make it know by VOTING!!! There won't be another chance like this. Things can and will get much worse if something isn't changed drastically.

Off my soap box!
Happy weekend everyone!:D

[grey]

We have also been getting ready for a bad market. Doomsayers have been saying potential Depression, but for now it's a recession and we'll see how things go.

Our home is paid for, as are our cars. We had to do a lot of remodeling on the house and that has left us with some debt on a credit card, and we are working like crazy to get that paid off.

One of my side jobs is at an organic bakery & market. I work for organic produce :D and bring home about $50 worth every week. That would be the majority of our food bill as we're vegetarian (more vegan than tarian but we all have to cheat on cheese sometimes!). I also have a pretty good organic garden of my own going and have stocked up on jars so I can be canning things as those 34 tomato plants start producing. I'm freezing just about everything - broccoli, spinach, green beans, corn, shredded zucchini... The panicky side of me wonders what winter grocery costs will be when nobody can grow much and the powers that be can raise it all they want - we have to eat.

Other than that, just the usual cost-cutting methods. I'm an opinionated little snot so I'm not changing to CFL bulbs with their mercury content and constant flickering and buzzing. I HATE that! I'll use candles and hurricane lamps before I give up my incandescents.

[Mr. Bloom]

Mr. Silver - I can tell you are concerned. Your post was time stamped 2:25 AM!


I assure you that there are many things that concern Mr. Silver...but he was asleep at 2:25AM;) I think the time stamp is an anomaly of my/your computer set up...It was probably 5:25 AM...

[Dogmama]

One of my side jobs is at an organic bakery & market. I work for organic produce :D and bring home about $50 worth every week. That would be the majority of our food bill as we're vegetarian (more vegan than tarian but we all have to cheat on cheese sometimes!)

In Tucson, that would be about 3 bell peppers, a dozen zucchini & a head of lettuce!:p Seriously, I do still try to buy organic because it's better for the planet and for us.

I'm glad this topic is here. I often forget that while I'm complaining about my luxury problems, there are people who are really struggling. I'm going to be on the look out for ways to help in my community.

[Mr. Bloom]

As for riding it out, I haven't bought into that idea. Why not dump it and wait until it drops then buy it back?

Smilingcat, I hear ya'. The problem with "market timing" is it assumes that you are sitting on top of the market to execute your moves perfectly. This is far from reality for anyone but a floor trader.

I'll let you do the math (importing daily data on the Dow from YahooFinance into an excel worksheet). I just did this and here's what it reveals:

50 Years Ago, On 7/7/1958, the Dow was at 481.85. Yesterday, it closed at 11,288.53.

In the last 50 years, the 10 single largest DAILY gains were:
Date

10/15/2002- 4.80%
7/29/2002- 5.41%
7/24/2002- 6.35%
3/16/2000- 4.93%
9/8/1998- 4.98%
10/29/1987 - 4.96%
10/21/1987- 10.15%
10/20/1987- 5.88%
8/17/1982- 4.90%
5/27/1970- 5.08%

If those 10 days (out of 12,585 days) were "0" because you were sitting on the sideline, "your Dow" would have been 6,464. The cumulative effect of ONLY THOSE 10 DAYS accounted for nearly half the return on the Dow in the last 50 years.

Intuitively, the idea of timing makes sense...but for all practical purposes, it's almost impossible for ordinary people to do.

TO BE FAIR: If you also take out the worst 10 days as well, "your Dow" would be > 15,000! But, I usually hear about a bad market day when I get home...when I've already incurred the loss...then, it's too late...

[Crankin]

It's obvious that we don't represent an "average" just by virtue of our interest in cycling. Lots of people think I'm definitely nuts to spend what I spend on bikes...
To be serious, I realize I have it very easy compared to people who are really hurting. But, I think that if more people who were in my position made small changes in their habits, it would help make permanent changes. Like the thread on more people riding their bikes; do you think this phenomenon will last if gas suddenly gets a bit cheaper? Personally, I don't. We need to get a critical mass out there doing these things before they become "habits" that are part of our national personality.
And yes, vote...

[Dogmama]

Smilingcat, I hear ya'. The problem with "market timing" is it assumes that you are sitting on top of the market to execute your moves perfectly. This is far from reality for anyone but a floor trader.

...

I'm too lazy/uninterested to sit at my computer & try to time the market. I have my IRA in stocks 100% because I won't be able to access it anytime soon & the stock market seems to be the best investment for the long run. Plus, I'm re-investing my dividends, so when the market is down, I figure I'm buying stocks at a discounted price. My glass is always half full!

[Jolt]

But, I think that if more people who were in my position made small changes in their habits, it would help make permanent changes. Like the thread on more people riding their bikes; do you think this phenomenon will last if gas suddenly gets a bit cheaper? Personally, I don't. We need to get a critical mass out there doing these things before they become "habits" that are part of our national personality.
And yes, vote...

I agree! I have seen more people riding their bikes around town lately, which is great (although I do wish they'd follow the rules of the road better). As far as how the economic situation is affecting me, I wouldn't say I've made too many major changes since I have always tried to be fairly frugal (being a student will do that to a person). However, it is stressing me out that I am having so much trouble finding a nursing job around here. So much for the supposed shortage of nurses. We new grad nurses (I just got my RN license in February and have one more year of school to become an NP) here in MA are having a hard time because there just aren't as many positions available for us--most places are just looking for experienced nurses. And because I am still in school in MA, I do not have the option of looking in other states as some people have suggested to those of us having problems finding jobs. It's frustrating and I am hoping something comes through soon (I have all sorts of applications out at a bunch of places). I also would prefer, for obvious reasons, to end up working somewhere that is close enough to walk or bike to--a couple of the hospitals are about 20 miles away (one's even further, but it looks like the train would be an option on weekdays) so biking it would be pretty tough for a slow rider like me, but others are right in the same town as I am. We'll see what happens...

[Trek420]

I'm too lazy/uninterested to sit at my computer & try to time the market. I have my IRA in stocks 100% because I won't be able to access it anytime soon & the stock market seems to be the best investment for the long run. Plus, I'm re-investing my dividends, so when the market is down, I figure I'm buying stocks at a discounted price. My glass is always half full!

Agreed. If your employer has a 401k make sure you're in it. You really will not miss it each pay day. The money taken out is just being taken off of the table for the tax guy.

Every time I talk to someone living on social security alone I feel like clocking off and calling HR to increase the amount taken out of my paycheck pre-tax.

It's always been hard but now retirees are in a lot of pain.

I have a large amount being taken out each payday. It goes to a diverse group of funds. I do not request my employers stock because the company match (they match my first 8% so if I did not do at least that I'm a fool) is in our stock with dividends so I'm getting that anyway. Plus I don't want all my eggs in one basket.

You need that 3 legged stool, maybe 4 legs: 401k, pension, social security, your own investments. For one thing because we don't know which of those will be there by the time I retire. :o

[Dogmama]

Agreed. If your employer has a 401k make sure you're in it. You really will not miss it each pay day. The money taken out is just being taken off of the table for the tax guy.



Absolutely. They call it paying yourself first. If I had to actually move money, it would never happen.

[Trek420]

If you're not participating in your 401k try it. Take a paycheck right now, any paycheck, enroll in the 401k. Pick a number, any number, 2%, 3, 6 .... you can always change it later on and enroll.

Now look at your next paycheck.

Your take home pay may be the same or very little difference. :cool: The money going to your retirement was going to the tax man before. Even if you keep increasing the % out till it hurts you'll still be happy come tax time because you just reduced your taxable income. :D

[Melalvai]

The sampling of your poll is somewhat skewed. Cycling can be an expensive sport.
It might be skewed on both ends. Cycling is an expensive sport but an extremely cheap transportation. So people who cycle are either rich, poor and/or eccentric.

Though probably on the net it leans toward expensive sport over cheap transportation, with strong representation by eccentric.