cadence

[grey]

I'm still a little new to riding (almost a year) and have yet to jump out and get myself a road bike (I am pinching my pennies, I want to get a GOOD one and keep it 10 years - that's how I've always bought anything), but for now I've been riding an old mountain bike and have been able to keep up with the cycling club in my area. We do about 35 miles, lots of hills, great area to ride around here.

I think some of my tiredness at the end of a ride comes from working with big, fat, heavy tires (when I catch up to folks it isn't uncommon for someone to yell "car back" because the tires make that much road noise!) and a bike that weighs twice as much as everyone else's.

However, one rider keeps harping at me about my cadence. He says it is too low, that I need to pedal more not less. Well, I do drop down the gears on hills and all that and I honestly HATE the granny gear, all that pedaling to move an inch drives me crazy, I'd rather be a few gears up and pedal a little harder, but be actually moving up the hill. I feel that the granny wears me out faster.

With their road bikes, the hill climb is my ONLY chance to catch up and pass them. Road bikes glide downhill much faster, and much longer, than I can. They'll be still coasting along and I have to pedal as fast as I can just to keep in range so I can pass them on the next uphill.

So uh, what is the importance of cadence? He says I should always be in the 90rpm range but I kind of think this would vary some by rider? I also think it may be hard to compare the cadence needed on a road bike vs a mountain bike, which has far more drag. BUT: I turn to the more experienced people here - and ask - how important is the cadence?:confused:

[mimitabby]

There are mashers and spinners.
Some of us (the mashers) can't stand spinning.

I think as you get stronger, you may spin more; but my very strong son (a masher) has done some serious bike rides (150-200 miles) without doing a lot of spinning.
Tell the guy to each his own. You know, you might be able to get better tires for that bike!

[grey]

Mashers, huh? I didn't know the term before. I think I'll wear it proudly. Can we get jerseys that make that declaration with MASHER written boldly on the back?

I've been pinching pennies for the bike. Won't be much longer, and I bet on a road bike I'll be flying past Mr. Cadence.

[wolfak]

I know mashing seems a lot more natural to you, but spinning helps build finer muscle in the quadriceps, rather than the body builder look. It's also better for your knee health in general. Also very good for your cardiovascular system!

I might suggest you try some sort of toe clip or clipless pedals. You will increase your efficiency, build some hamstring muscle and you might not feel the need for mashing.

Basically, the high rpm on the cadence is to build muscle, not bulk and save your knees from cartilage tears. I know it's a tough conversion to make. Good luck!

[KnottedYet]

I'm a masher.

Been riding bikes for 35 years. Mash, mash, mash.

I have more slow twitch fibers than fast twitch fibers, and that's just the way my body works. No bulky fast-twitch fibers on my bod. :p Long, lean, hard slow-twitchers. (think marathon runner's body vs sprinter's body) Under the fat, anyway...;)

If you were a sprinter on your high school track team, you'll likely feel best spinning at a high cadence.

If you were a distance runner or cross-country runner in high school, don't be surprised if you feel better at a 60-80 rpm cadence.

Just don't pedal slower than your footfalls when you walk or jog, just as a general guide.

ETA: think of your fast walk/slow jog "footfall cadence" as your bottom limit for your biking cadence.

[ilima]

If you were a sprinter on your high school track team, you'll likely feel best spinning at a high cadence.

If you were a distance runner or cross-country runner in high school, don't be surprised if you feel better at a 60-80 rpm cadence.


Ha! I've always thought it was just the opposite. The sprinters are the ones with explosive power = mashers, while the distance folks are more about economy = spinners.

Maybe there are no predictable rules about who turns out to be mashers vs. spinners.

For the OP, 90 is just thought of as an 'ideal' cadence with the best balance between energy expenditure vs. speed/power. Your ideal cadence may turn out to be a bit higher or a bit lower. Nevertheless, I do think it would be worth your while to invest in a cyclocomputer with cadence and try to spin at 90 for starters and then refine your ideal cadence from there.

[Raindrop]

Grey, first of all don't worry about developing a squat, bodybuilders build if you're mashing. If you're riding 35+ miles at a time and keeping up with the road bikers, hell, even if you weren't and still put in the mileage, you're working endurance muscles.

But, the other information about possibly messing up your knees is a possibility. Although you may feel fine now pushing a big gear at a lower cadence, it's a cumulative thing that could affect you down the line. So, pay attention; if you're grinding along at about 70 RPMs on a flat, you need to change your gearing to allow you a little higher cadence.

Oh, and change the tires on your bike to some slicks. It'll make it much smoother until you've saved up your pennies for your dream bike.

[KnottedYet]

Think fast twitch=explosive=rapid cadence=high bulk="white meat".
Slow twitch=endurance=slower cadence=low bulk="dark meat."

The white meat/dark meat analogy is one most people are familiar with. Bird breasts are high proportion of fast twitch fibers, wings flap pretty quickly/have a higher cadence. Bird thighs are a high proportion of slow twitch fibers, legs tend to move slower/ have a lower cadence. (the color difference is partly due to the different oxygen handling strategies of the two different muscle fibers) Both generate plenty of power, but the power is in different "flavors."

Human postural muscles ("core") tend to have more slow twitch fibers. Human limb muscles (Get-Me-Away-From-This-Sabre-Toothed-Tiger muscles) tend to have more fast twitch than core muscles do.

Skeletal muscles in general have a mix of slow and fast twitch fibers. We're not built like birds, we don't really have white meat and dark meat, though different muscles and different people can have different proportions of slow/fast.

Back in the early 1980's I did a really fun research project on fast twitch/slow twitch muscle fibers in human embryological development. (look up Dr. Stephen Haushka for an idea of some of the work. He called my theory "elegant", and set my brain on fire. Some of it is out of date now, but still cool stuff.) Humans really do have different proportions in different individuals. Folks tend to gravitate to the sports that suit their fiber proportions.

For example: I am a slow twitch kind of gal. I broke all kinds of records for long distance in track. But put me in anything sprint-like, and I was toast. Not even in the pack. Bringing up the rear. And not right at the rear, no, I was YARDS behind. I gravitated to the long slow steady aerobic distances because that's what my body did best. I can't crawl stroke while swimming, I get exhausted very quickly and have to stop. But I can side stroke across lakes no problem. I can't spin above 80 for more than a quarter mile without needing to stop and coast or just plain stop. But I'll toodle along at my 67 rpm for 50 miles without complaining too much.

[j.nurse63]

interesting stuff, Knotted!! I was a long distance swimmer myself and always did much better than in the sprints. And...I enjoy being a masher...it is more comfortable than spinning.
I have a Ruby Comp and have begun to really utilize my gears more efficiently to get me up the hills. I have to say that my cyclometer is bare bones and I have no idea about cadence.
This is my question...I road last weekend and put in 108 miles. I am knew since April to the love of road biking. Is a computer with cadence a must?? The $$ is tight and I am now getting pedals and shoes. I am hoping to complete my first Century in September. I guess I thought that to ride comfortably was most important. I generally average 14-16. Would it improve my cycling and training?
Last question folks...do your muscles swell? I have really never experienced my calves being so tight and they feel swollen at times. I am fairly athletic but the biking has been such a new experience. Just curious.
Jean :confused:

[indigoiis]

Jean,

I ride computer-less. After you ride for awhile, you start to know yourself well enough to be able to gauge your rpm and cadence by feel. Rather than have an exact number, when I ride, I try for a rhythmic, consistent cadence whenever possible.

Also, you will get faster whether you have a computer or not. ;) Map programs like mapmyride.com can calculate your mph post-ride.

[KnottedYet]

If money is tight and you're down to choosing between pedals and shoes or a computer with cadence, I'd go for the pedals and shoes! :D

[madscot13]

I think that mountain bikes tend to have longer cranks that facilitate the mashing of pedals.

I don't think cadence computers are a must. sometimes what I do and know this is not the best way to do it, but I like to avoid math while i am biking, is to match the cadence of someone who is pedaling right.

[grey]

Think fast twitch=explosive=rapid cadence=high bulk="white meat".
Slow twitch=endurance=slower cadence=low bulk="dark meat."

You know, that's really interesting. Run? hahaha. No. I took martial arts for years because I can't run to save my life. So I decided I should just disable my attacker and walk away at my leisure. I can hike with a heavy pack forever, I seem to be able to build endurance very quickly.

At any rate, it makes sense, and I'll watch to be sure I'm not jerky on the bike to protect the knees. Bad knees run in the family in the form of cartilage that just falls apart over time (listen close and my right one sounds like Rice Krispies when I bend it) - but I haven't had any knee pain yet. If anything I think my knees are better for all the riding - more muscle, less dependence on structure for support/movement.

Anyway - thanks for all the input!