Clipless pedals: Frogs vs. SPDs

[Yen]

I'm ready to go clipless.:eek:

My shoes are SPD compatible with a recessed cleat, my preference because we like to get off and walk or enter a place to eat.

I've read a lot of raves here for Frogs, but when I mentioned that at the LBS all the guys pushed SPDs. No doubt they carry them there and not the frogs.

I want easy in, easy out, easy to maintain, and they must look good on my little black bike. :) We ride in traffic so I need to be able to easily disengage without much thought and with a lot of ease.

So why do so many of you like Frogs so much?

[KnottedYet]

Because they do all of those things, and have no moving parts to fuss with! :p
Plus they have 20 degress of float (which can be very nice for some women's knees) and are passive release (very very easy to get out of).

[Zen]

As Gary Cooper would say, "yep".

[salsabike]

I loved SPDs too, but my knees hated them. I spent several years on Frogs, pretty happy. Recently switched to Quattros because I wanted a little less float and a little more platform, but I still think Frogs are dandy too.

[ilima]

I just had a commuter built up and my mechanic was pushing Eggbeaters. I was leery because I ride Speedplay X2s on my roadie, and I love the float and most of all the effortless unclipping.

I've used the mountain and road SPDs, and with both I felt like I was damaging my knee while unclipping. Even on the lowest tension setting.

Anyway, I was down to Frogs and Eggbeaters, and decided I'd listen to my mechanic because I could return the pedals if I didn't like them. The verdict after not many rides is that they are very easy to unclip from and I like that the cleat is super small--I think the Frogs cleat is a bit bigger and sometimes you need to trim your soles to get them to fit/work properly.

[beccaB]

OK, I hope I won't appear stupid, but what is "degree of float"? My pedals are fairly loose so I can get out of the easy enough, but my toes are starting to get numb after 20 miles, and my knees are getting a little tender from a prior running injury.
My pedals are clipless on one side and a regular pedal on the other side.

[ilima]

OK, I hope I won't appear stupid, but what is "degree of float"?

Float means you can move your heel side-to-side (well, more pivoting around the pedal) without coming unclipped. If your pedal doesn't have float, your foot (and, by extension, knee) is locked in place.

Most pedals that have float do not have "free float" and will encourage your foot to go back to the center position. Speedplay pedals have free float, so your foot can move freely and (hopefully) not torque your knee.

[dachshund]

I can clip out of the Speedplay x5's easily enough. I'm guessing that the other Speedplay pedals are similar since they have the same shape. But I have trouble clipping in because there's no "bumper" or physical feedback to tell me my foot it in the right position.

I can clip into the Look Keo's fine, but for some reason the foot motion required to get out isn't working for me. I had this same issue with a set of Shimano pedals.

So what I need is the Speedplay shape with some sort of bumper to get in.
Does this exist in real life?

[sundial]

I like Frogs cuz I can wear sweet mtb shoes. None of that ice skating business for me, please. ;)

[Kathi]

I can clip out of the Speedplay x5's easily enough. I'm guessing that the other Speedplay pedals are similar since they have the same shape. But I have trouble clipping in because there's no "bumper" or physical feedback to tell me my foot it in the right position.

I can clip into the Look Keo's fine, but for some reason the foot motion required to get out isn't working for me. I had this same issue with a set of Shimano pedals.

So what I need is the Speedplay shape with some sort of bumper to get in.
Does this exist in real life?

With Speedplay X pedals you basically line your foot to the pedal and step down. I do it so intuitively that I don't even think about it or feel for the pedal.

If it's to hard to clip in check to see if you have dirt between the spring and the plastic edge. Screws that are too tight can also cause clipping in problems. Finally, be sure to lube with white lightning or other lubes recommended by Speedplay, especially when new.

[Kathi]

I like Frogs cuz I can wear sweet mtb shoes. None of that ice skating business for me, please. ;)

Cleat covers protect the cleats and allow walking without slipping or sliding.

[Zen]

I still prefer MTB shoes

[Fujichants]

I actually like to walk in my road shoes and Look cleats...

[tpb]

I am also new to clipping-in. I currently have some low-end Shimano pedals where both sides can be used for clipping in or riding with regular shoes. I'm having issues with knee pain, so I'm interested in alternatives. What would you recommend if I want to have the choice of using my bike shoes with cleats or regular shoes? The Frogs that I've looked at seem to be strictly for clipping in.

Thanks.
tb

[sundial]

How about a Wellgo (http://www.rei.com/product/752203?cm_mmc=cse_froogle-_-datafeed-_-product-_-na&mr:trackingCode=2F07B4FD-9947-DD11-98CA-001422107090&mr:referralID=NA) platform pedal? I have a set on my mtb and Frogs on my road bike.

[tpb]

The Wellgo look like strictly "regular shoes" pedals. Is this right?

I'd like to be able to either clip or not with the same pedal. I'm trying to outfit my commuter bike. When I'm commuting to work (16 miles), I want to clip. When I'm running out to do errands (1-2 miles), I want to be able to wear whatever shoes I happen to have on.

Thanks!
tpb

[sundial]

The Wellgo look like strictly "regular shoes" pedals. Is this right?

I have used my mtb shoes with it. I primarily wear these (http://www.ajssportinggoods.com/lifesports/product.asp?dept_id=17011&pf_id=SP_612721&ad_id=froogle&key_id=SpecializedBGTahoWomensMountainBikeShoe) so I can hike.

[dachshund]

With Speedplay X pedals you basically line your foot to the pedal and step down. I do it so intuitively that I don't even think about it or feel for the pedal.

If it's to hard to clip in check to see if you have dirt between the spring and the plastic edge. Screws that are too tight can also cause clipping in problems. Finally, be sure to lube with white lightning or other lubes recommended by Speedplay, especially when new.

Thanks, I have checked my cleats. The "debris" is in my head, not in the cleat. :rolleyes: I can't accurately place my foot in the right spot every time. When I put my foot in the right spot, it clicks in fine. I love the speedplays because they're so simple. I guess I'll put them back on and practice practice.

[beccaB]

I am also new to clipping-in. I currently have some low-end Shimano pedals where both sides can be used for clipping in or riding with regular shoes. I'm having issues with knee pain, so I'm interested in alternatives. What would you recommend if I want to have the choice of using my bike shoes with cleats or regular shoes? The Frogs that I've looked at seem to be strictly for clipping in.

Thanks.
tb


I'm having some knee "tenderness" Don't want to call it pain exactly, that would admit that I'm "old" and or falling apart because I'm already in physical therapy for torn rotator cuff.
That's why I'm kinda thinkin' about new pedals. I don't think it's the twisting out of the pedal that's bothering me though. I think it's the old runners knee acting up with the increased distance and all those revolutions=torque.
I'm also using low end shimano pedals that I can use with cleats on one side and regular shoes on the other.
Would it help to try a different Pedal? The folks at Terry said it might help to raise the seat a little, and the PT says to do stretching exercises for the gastroc and hamstrings.

[makbike]

I currently am using SPD pedals and I love them but evidently the new set does not like my ankle. The set I have on my old bike has a lot of float and my foot/ankle is able to move as it wished. When I ride my new bike with a better set of SPD pedals I develop tendinitis in my right ankle - no enough float. My bike fitter recommended I locate an "old style" Look pedal or Shimano SPD-SL Pd-540's. I have some reservation about these pedals (I"ll admit I love my SPD's but he can't put the shims in that I require hence the Look/shimano suggestions). After reading what has been posted here I'm curious, can shims be used with the cleats required for Frogs?

[KatyLady]

I'm ready to go clipless.:eek:

My shoes are SPD compatible with a recessed cleat, my preference because we like to get off and walk or enter a place to eat.

I've read a lot of raves here for Frogs, but when I mentioned that at the LBS all the guys pushed SPDs. No doubt they carry them there and not the frogs.

I want easy in, easy out, easy to maintain, and they must look good on my little black bike. :) We ride in traffic so I need to be able to easily disengage without much thought and with a lot of ease.

So why do so many of you like Frogs so much?


Glad to hear you are ready to try clipless. I fought DH for a long time before breaking down and making the move myself. At this point I wouldn't want to give up my clipless.

I started with Speedplay Zeros and was happy with them - but have converted to Frogs. As some others mentioned above, my primary reason for switching to Frogs was to make it easier to walk in the mtn shoes. Not just easier to walk, but easier to put my foot down when I stop. With the Zeros, I was sometimes afraid that the cleat would slide on the pavement rather than providing stable support for my foot. The Frogs also seem to release a little faster which can be important in traffic.

Bottomline - Frogs are both comfortable and easy in/out. They get my vote.

[Chicken Little]

Man, I love my eggbeaters...

[Kathi]

I currently am using SPD pedals and I love them but evidently the new set does not like my ankle. The set I have on my old bike has a lot of float and my foot/ankle is able to move as it wished. When I ride my new bike with a better set of SPD pedals I develop tendinitis in my right ankle - no enough float. My bike fitter recommended I locate an "old style" Look pedal or Shimano SPD-SL Pd-540's. I have some reservation about these pedals (I"ll admit I love my SPD's but he can't put the shims in that I require hence the Look/shimano suggestions). After reading what has been posted here I'm curious, can shims be used with the cleats required for Frogs?

If you're talking about these http://www.bikefit.com/ according to their website the answer is yes. I have these between my Sidi shoes and Speedplay X cleats. I was in my LBS today and the bike fitter said he would do it for me on my Frogs.

If you need shims for leg length discrepency the answer is yes.
http://www.speedplay.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.merchandise

[Kathi]

I am also new to clipping-in. I currently have some low-end Shimano pedals where both sides can be used for clipping in or riding with regular shoes. I'm having issues with knee pain, so I'm interested in alternatives. What would you recommend if I want to have the choice of using my bike shoes with cleats or regular shoes? The Frogs that I've looked at seem to be strictly for clipping in.

Thanks.
tb

Speedplay has a platform pedal that clips over the road pedal. It's really nice because they allow the foot to "float" unlike many platform pedals that still lock your foot into a specific position.

http://www.speedplay.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.merchandise

[jackster]

I am new to clipless petals so the bike shop recommended the speedplay frog peddles because they are the easist to learn. I really like them and they were easy to learn to get in and out of.

[sundial]

...my primary reason for switching to Frogs was to make it easier to walk in the mtn shoes. Not just easier to walk, but easier to put my foot down when I stop. With the Zeros, I was sometimes afraid that the cleat would slide on the pavement rather than providing stable support for my foot. The Frogs also seem to release a little faster which can be important in traffic.

I won the Chinese Split award when I unclipped from the Zeros.

[mudmucker]

Be careful. Sometimes too much float isn't good.

I am going to be selling my Frog Speedplays.

I bought them in May. I was using Shimano spd's for years and once and a while I'd have a twinge in my left knee, not all that bad. I thought I'd try the Frogs. At first they were fine and my knee felt good. But for this season and when I first got the pedals I was commuting to work along a very flat route, (have to drive many miles to get to start point) and hadn't done much riding on them here where I live which is hillier.

I then did a couple of rides here and all hell broke loose using those pedals. The frogs have way too much float for me, and wreacked havoc with my knees, ankles, and achilles tendon all at the same time. I don't always sit hills - I also stand in the pedals and really swing that bike back and forth so that doesn't help either.

I had just about every ailment that Andy Pruitt lists as a possible cause for too much float, and I was off the bike for 7 days. Ankles, achilles, left side of knee, right side of knee, top, below, behind - it was ridiculous. At first I thought I had joint pain flare-up, something I've been trying to address. But this was different. It was tendons and muscles, not joints. It happened again when I got back on the bike. Ouch.

So instead of putting back on the spd's I decided to treat myself to my own birthday present. For 23 years always used mt shoes and never had a really good pair of road shoes. I just bought myself a pair of carbon road shoes with leather uppers. I just couldn't spend $350-$400 for Sidi's, but I found a beautiful pair of carbon shoes by Specialized for $225. They are so darn comfortable, so much more than the mt shoes. There's room for my feet to expand cause they swell, and the leather will stretch. I decided on a platform pedal for greater surface as I was getting hotfoot too, and went with Look Keo's. I've always been fine with clipping in and out so none of that is a problem. They have 4.5 d float and that seems to do the trick. They have another set of cleats that go up to 9 d but I don't think I need it.

Actually, the 2008 Look cleats have grippy things on them. I was walking on wood floors, cement floor, stairs, and concrete and wasn't slipping.

What a difference though with the carbon shoes! The pedaling efficiency I've experienced compared to the mt shoes and frogs are like night and day. My foot feels much more stable. I think this setup will do the trick. Boy, are good shoes important. The Specialized I have has a varus wedge and metatarsal button too.

[Yen]

Thanks everyone. I still have not yet decided which pedals to get, but today I put down a deposit on a pair of Sidi Dominator 5. I needed to replace my current pair of new MTB shoes because they were squeezing my right toes something aweful. I was warned to not try on Sidi (due to the price) but after the first 3 pair of other brand didn't feel right, I tried on the Sidis. There was no looking back. Once I found my size it was like a pair of slippers on my feet.

According to the LBS, they are compatible with any SPD-type pedal.

I'll wait until I actually have the shoes in hand before I start shopping for the pedals. I'll get those at a different LBS where they will put me on a trainer in the shoes and let me practice until I am comfortable, then ride in the street around the store.

[salsabike]

Yen, just fyi, I have had Frogs on my Sidi Dominators also, and am about to put Quattros on the Dominators. So those two types of cleats can also be used--you just have to carve a little off the bottom of the shoes, and the LBS can tell you how to do that.

[beccaB]

Be careful. Sometimes too much float isn't good.

I am going to be selling my Frog Speedplays.

I bought them in May. I was using Shimano spd's for years and once and a while I'd have a twinge in my left knee, not all that bad. I thought I'd try the Frogs. At first they were fine and my knee felt good. But for this season and when I first got the pedals I was commuting to work along a very flat route, (have to drive many miles to get to start point) and hadn't done much riding on them here where I live which is hillier.

I then did a couple of rides here and all hell broke loose using those pedals. The frogs have way too much float for me, and wreacked havoc with my knees, ankles, and achilles tendon all at the same time. I don't always sit hills - I also stand in the pedals and really swing that bike back and forth so that doesn't help either.

I had just about every ailment that Andy Pruitt lists as a possible cause for too much float, and I was off the bike for 7 days. Ankles, achilles, left side of knee, right side of knee, top, below, behind - it was ridiculous. At first I thought I had joint pain flare-up, something I've been trying to address. But this was different. It was tendons and muscles, not joints. It happened again when I got back on the bike. Ouch.

So instead of putting back on the spd's I decided to treat myself to my own birthday present. For 23 years always used mt shoes and never had a really good pair of road shoes. I just bought myself a pair of carbon road shoes with leather uppers. I just couldn't spend $350-$400 for Sidi's, but I found a beautiful pair of carbon shoes by Specialized for $225. They are so darn comfortable, so much more than the mt shoes. There's room for my feet to expand cause they swell, and the leather will stretch. I decided on a platform pedal for greater surface as I was getting hotfoot too, and went with Look Keo's. I've always been fine with clipping in and out so none of that is a problem. They have 4.5 d float and that seems to do the trick. They have another set of cleats that go up to 9 d but I don't think I need it.

Actually, the 2008 Look cleats have grippy things on them. I was walking on wood floors, cement floor, stairs, and concrete and wasn't slipping.

What a difference though with the carbon shoes! The pedaling efficiency I've experienced compared to the mt shoes and frogs are like night and day. My foot feels much more stable. I think this setup will do the trick. Boy, are good shoes important. The Specialized I have has a varus wedge and metatarsal button too.

Has the pain in your knee improved at all with the new shoes?

[Yen]

Yen, just fyi, I have had Frogs on my Sidi Dominators also, and am about to put Quattros on the Dominators. So those two types of cleats can also be used--you just have to carve a little off the bottom of the shoes, and the LBS can tell you how to do that.

salsabike: Thanks for the tip. Why are you moving from Frogs to Quattros?

[j.nurse63]

Hi,
has anyone used the Speedplay Light Action pedals? I bought a wonderful pair of Sidi Genius 4 from LBS. (last year stock) and a good friend I ride with has encouraged the Speedplay. But...he thinks I should have stayed with the X Series. Truthfully, what I read is that the Ligh Action has an easier release and more float.
Thoughts?
Thanks....Jean

[mudmucker]

Yes, the pain in my knee is gone.

[salsabike]

salsabike: Thanks for the tip. Why are you moving from Frogs to Quattros?

Two reasons: I wanted to see if some, but less, float would be good enough for my knees, because of what Andy Pruitt says in his Complete Medical Guide for Cyclists: "The less float your cleats have, the more power you can produce. With more float, your leg muscles have to work harder to stabilize your foot as it rotates on the pedal. Therefore, it's best to choose pedals with the least amount of float you need." I knew I needed more float than SPDs provided, but wanted to try to not have unlimited float.

Second reason: I wanted to be able to pedal unclipped safely if necessary for short periods of time. I personally could never quite do that on Frogs--unclipped, it's easy for me to have my foot just slip off, and I didn't like having to worry about that.

But they sure saved my knees after SPDs, and I think they're great.

[sundial]

I wanted to see if some, but less, float would be good enough for my knees...

When I got my Epic mtb bike, it came with Crank Bros Candies. I just put those babies on my road bike to see if it would help my hot spot and reduce the hip pain. I'll take it out for a spin and see if I like 'em better than the Frogs. Stay tuned. :)

[GeoCam]

--you just have to carve a little off the bottom of the shoes, and the LBS can tell you how to do that.

I have never quite gotten up the courage to try clipless, but I really want to! I have shoes and I have pedals and the only thing holding me back now is that I do need to trim the shoes a bit, and I am not sure how to do it. I didn't buy the shoes or the pedals at my LBS, so don't feel comfortable asking them for help. Does anyone have any tips on how to go about this?

[sundial]

....I'm going back to the Frogs. The Candies just didn't feel right and when I tried taking them off the cranks, they were super tight. I mean I thought I was going to pop a vessel trying to get those things off. :p Hubby tried and tried and finally it loosened up. Somehow they got tighter as I rode. :confused:

Froggies it is.

[mayanorange]

Just got Mudmucker's Frogs (Thanks again!) the other day and I adore them. I had some SPDs and they were making my good knee freak out- too much recentering tension for me. I'm actually enjoying my rides finally thanks to these and my super-squishy Selle Royal Lookin (mens) saddle. It's still too squishy up front, so I'm looking into the Allay, but for now I can ride and not have bruised buttbones for 4 days after 5 mins riding. Just waiting for my new stem to come in and then I think I'll be nearly dialed in. All the great discussions here on TE have helped so much! I also picked up some Shebeest shorts at REI last night- so much better than the crap REI brand ones I naively tried first which liked to fold in half- ow! Only thing left is a mirror (I don't recommend the Zefal one BTW). Debating between italian road bike mirror and the sprintech.

[mudmucker]

Yay ! Happy endings for both of us.

[tiffany Hart]

Because they do all of those things, and have no moving parts to fuss with! :p
Plus they have 20 degress of float (which can be very nice for some women's knees) and are passive release (very very easy to get out of).

We'll I spoke to the bike shop dudes and they sold me the new specialized bike with these things and they work pretty well. I had to go back to get them adjusted after the first ride. I had alot of trouble getting out of them. I think they greased them a little bit.
Any maintenance to keep them working properly? Can I use white lightening on them?
Tiff

[Flur]

So I was on the fence between frogs and candies b/c I was worried about too much float v. not enough float. I have a bad knee, and at the advice of the wonderful members of this board I scheduled an appointment with an orthopedist to figure out if I wanted to allow movement or to stabilize the knee, but I had to schedule it way out and then ultimately had to cancel at the last minute b/c my husband was sick. I'd been riding in a great a pair of Specialized MTB shoes with a really stiff sole (not carbon, but very, very stiff) and love them, but they're hard to get into the toe clips, so I got fed up and just went and bought frogs the other day. After two short rides I've got pain all around my bad knee (underneath mostly on the inside, but sensitive all around the kneecap and behind the knee) and pain in both ankles. I've found that if I bend my knee, turn my heel out and press down (as I might when pedaling) I have a lot of pain on the inside below the kneecap, and I'm sure it's from the float that I now have (that I didn't have with the toeclips) allowing me to turn my heel out.

Mudmucker - your post confirmed what I was thinking and saved me another week of trying to make it work. Thanks!!!

I'm off to get the candies...

[Kathi]

So I was on the fence between frogs and candies b/c I was worried about too much float v. not enough float. I have a bad knee, and at the advice of the wonderful members of this board I scheduled an appointment with an orthopedist to figure out if I wanted to allow movement or to stabilize the knee, but I had to schedule it way out and then ultimately had to cancel at the last minute b/c my husband was sick. I'd been riding in a great a pair of Specialized MTB shoes with a really stiff sole (not carbon, but very, very stiff) and love them, but they're hard to get into the toe clips, so I got fed up and just went and bought frogs the other day. After two short rides I've got pain all around my bad knee (underneath mostly on the inside, but sensitive all around the kneecap and behind the knee) and pain in both ankles. I've found that if I bend my knee, turn my heel out and press down (as I might when pedaling) I have a lot of pain on the inside below the kneecap, and I'm sure it's from the float that I now have (that I didn't have with the toeclips) allowing me to turn my heel out.

Mudmucker - your post confirmed what I was thinking and saved me another week of trying to make it work. Thanks!!!

I'm off to get the candies...

I have that kind of pain too. It started long before I got Speedplay Pedals. It's called Chrondomalacia or patellofemoral syndrome. It's a chronic condition that requires stretching and strengthening the muscles around the knees to keep it under control. When it flairs up I have to back off my cycling, take anti-inflammatories, stretch, ice, etc.

High mileage at the beginning of the season and pedaling at low cadences or hill climbing too soon also sets it off. When it started this year I only felt pain on the bike but I know if I let it go it will become painful all the time.

If the Candies don't help see your orthopedist.

[Beane]

I have that kind of pain too. It started long before I got Speedplay Pedals. It's called Chrondomalacia or patellofemoral syndrome. It's a chronic condition that requires stretching and strengthening the muscles around the knees to keep it under control. When it flairs up I have to back off my cycling, take anti-inflammatories, stretch, ice, etc.

High mileage at the beginning of the season and pedaling at low cadences or hill climbing too soon also sets it off. When it started this year I only felt pain on the bike but I know if I let it go it will become painful all the time.

If the Candies don't help see your orthopedist.

Kathi-

I just found out that I too have patellofemoral syndrome and my doc showed me some exercises to do, etc. But reading this thread I realized that I only have had the pain this year (when using speedplay light actions) but had none at all last year (with look pedals). Admittedly I have done a lot more riding this year and certainly more hill climbing, so that could be it too. The knee pain really started on about the 3rd day or so of bike tour colorado. Do you think there's a chance the knee pain is related to the pedals? Just curious..

[Tokie]

I have regular Speedplays on my road bike shoes, lots of float, nice click sound and feel when I clip in. I now have MTB shoes with Frogs that I bought for my America by Bicycle tour (will report later) this July. My DH had to carve out a bit of my MTB shoes to set the cleats to get enough "toe out" float for my knees, and this worked out fine. I do find it a mystery how and when I clip into the pedals. No consistent "click" or feel of being engaged in the pedal until I pull up on the pedal to check if I am clipped in or not. But yes, they are insanely easy to get out of! And walking on the MTB shoes (specializd Moto Divas) was a real pleasure for touring. Tokie

[Tokie]

Sorry I didn't read the last posts! I always had patellar pain too, and am diagnosed with chondromalacia patella. PT didn't help all that much. Then I bought some Specialized women's cycling shoes. They are designed with "Varus Wedge" , which has miraculously and enormously reduced my patellar pain. Whenever I have tried returning to my old favorites(Sidi brand), my knee pain returns with a vengence. So I am a convert to Specialized shoes. might be worth a try.It has also helped to practice one leg pedaling drills to strengthen my quads and get my patellas to track better. (I finally found a PT who figured out how to help me!) Good luck! Tokie

[KnottedYet]

your PT should be able to put medial wedges in all your street shoes and in your Sidis, too. If the free wedges (red self-stick things) your PT uses cramp your Sidis too much, you can get very cool forefoot wedges (solid white plastic non-stick things) made by Specialized that will wedge you in any bike shoe by 1.5 degrees. If your PT decides you need more than 1.5 degrees, you can double up on the Specialized wedges without losing much space in the Sidis.

[Kathi]

Kathi-

I just found out that I too have patellofemoral syndrome and my doc showed me some exercises to do, etc. But reading this thread I realized that I only have had the pain this year (when using speedplay light actions) but had none at all last year (with look pedals). Admittedly I have done a lot more riding this year and certainly more hill climbing, so that could be it too. The knee pain really started on about the 3rd day or so of bike tour colorado. Do you think there's a chance the knee pain is related to the pedals? Just curious..

I can't answer your question but here's how I approach my knee pain. First I look at the bike and think about "what changed?"

When you changed to Speedplays did you change your saddle height to accomodate the differences in stack height between the two pedals? Incorrect saddle height can really mess up sensitive knees.

How long did you have the Speedplays before doing BTC?

Making a change in equipment, no matter how small, can cause havoc to the body if you don't deal with the changes slowly. Even though I don't notice the "float" or don't consider it any more than on pedals with less float it could bother your knees if you went to far to soon. I had one of my bikes professionally fitted and made all the changes at once. Then I went on a 3 day tour and road 50-60 miles each day. I continued long rides and it took me a month to get used to the changes (aches and pains in places I never had) and I was thinking the fit was all wrong. Finally, after the aches and pains went away I realized how much better off I was with the new fit.

If I can't find any thing different with the bike then I take a look at my training so:

How much did you train before you did BTC? How hard and how fast did you start out? Did you do hill training? Did you train for long distances?

When I start a new activity I start small. Since I ski in the winter my first spring bike rides are not over 10 miles, mostly flat. I slowly increase the mileage each week. After 500 miles or so I start hill training, easy at first then adding tougher hills. After 1,000 miles or so I seem to be able to ride anything without issue. Keeping my cadence high 80-90 rpm keeps my knees happy. While I can climb at 50-60 rpm's I can't do it for long.

My last thought is are you doing your exercise and stretching routine on a regular basis? It's hard to do it when you feel no pain but for this kind of knee condition it's imperative that you do it on regularly.

I messed up my knee in June because I didn't follow my own training guidelines, wasn't doing my exercises and stretching and tried doing a 3 hr climb near the Canyon of the Black Gunnison. Even with the long downhill my average cadence wasn't over 70 rpm. The next day we rode the "easy" side of the Canyon of the Black Gunnison and I only made it 6.5 miles before I had to turn around. I'm still feeling the effects.

Foam rollers and self massage helps alot and, of course, ibuprofin and ice.

This condition is tricky and one ortho I saw told me "you can be doing everything right (meaning exercise, stretching) and still have pain, or you can be doing nothing (no exercise, stretching) and be fine". I let myself coast from the intensive ACL rehab I did 2 years ago and am now paying the price.

If you decide to do another Colorado tour, or just a tour, Ride the Rockies has training guidelines to help riders prepare for the ride. I'm currently using the guidelines for a ride next month in N. Dakota.

Hope this helps you. Unfortunately, this condition is one you will have to learn to manage, it is lifelong, and will not go away.

[Beane]

I can't answer your question but here's how I approach my knee pain. First I look at the bike and think about "what changed?"

When you changed to Speedplays did you change your saddle height to accomodate the differences in stack height between the two pedals? Incorrect saddle height can really mess up sensitive knees.

How long did you have the Speedplays before doing BTC?

How much did you train before you did BTC? How hard and how fast did you start out? Did you do hill training? Did you train for long distances?

My last thought is are you doing your exercise and stretching routine on a regular basis? It's hard to do it when you feel no pain but for this kind of knee condition it's imperative that you do it on regularly.




I think the main thing was just not putting in enough miles before the miles and climbing of BTC.

I had the speedplays on the bike all spring before BTC.. I did maybe 1300 miles or so on them. The other issue is that it was my first real season on my new bike (less than 20 miles before winter hit.. and while I did trainer miles its not the same..), so it really could be any number of things. I guess I will just need to be diligent about the exercises & stretches and get used to the pain!

Thanks for the advice!

[aicabsolut]

I can clip out of the Speedplay x5's easily enough. I'm guessing that the other Speedplay pedals are similar since they have the same shape. But I have trouble clipping in because there's no "bumper" or physical feedback to tell me my foot it in the right position.

I can clip into the Look Keo's fine, but for some reason the foot motion required to get out isn't working for me. I had this same issue with a set of Shimano pedals.

So what I need is the Speedplay shape with some sort of bumper to get in.
Does this exist in real life?

Have you tried the Keo Easy pedals? They are supposed to have lower tension to make it easier to get out of for people who have the problem you do. You just rotate your heel either direction, like with other pedal systems, to unclip.

I like Keos with 4.5 degrees of float. I started out with 9 degrees, but I couldn't sprint, and I couldn't even stand up well without feeling like I was going to rip the cleat off my shoe. There was just too much wasted energy laterally. I don't like fixed cleats, though, because my joints and tendons like to have a little wiggle room.

I hate SPDs for a variety of reasons. I'm all about large platforms. Cafe covers help with walkability, but then I guess it depends on how much you need to walk and how important that is to you.

[tuckerbrown]

Maybe someone can help me. I have had clipless pedals. I am new, so I don't know all the terms. They are Shirmo pedal. I don't have knee pain, however I feel like it takes alot for me to clip out. Hubby said he has it on the least tension, however I took another fall last night and this one hurt. I am too old to be taking falls. Don't want to end up breaking something. And this fall happen with a car nearby. He thinks I should go back to regular pedals, for now, however I really like the flow I have with the clipless shoes. I am doing something wrong or is it that you are not able to clip out fast. I am new to riding, only about 3 months. I was so excited to have 300 miles on last night since I got my bike, then the excitment went away as I was cleaning out my knee. Any suggestions for me.

[beccaB]

Do you have dirt and debris in your cleat? Are your toes going numb so you can't feel if you're unclipping? (that happens to me) You might try the kind of pedal that has one side clipless and the other side regular. It helps with places where you have to stop and start a lot.

[tuckerbrown]

This is a road bike, so no dirt is not my issues. I just didn't know if I could try doing something else. I really don't want to give up the clipless shoes, however I also don't want to worry I am going to fall again.

[beccaB]

I know it might be expensive, but there are other kinds of clipless pedals to use, I've been researching this myself. Here's a website that explains some basics, but there are also a lot of threads on this forum that you can search.
http://www.shopwiki.com/wiki/Bike+Pedals

[uforgot]

I've used the Shimano spd pedals for a couple of years. Yesterday I purchased bike4ever's speedplay frogs from the "for sale" thread. I can't believe the difference. I've taught ballet most of my life and my toes turn waaaaay out. With the float on the frogs I am completely comfortable! And are they easy to get out of. Not once did they come unclipped accidentally. Almost as if they read my mind and anticipate what I want. Only one ride on them, but I'm sold!

[Yen]

Have you tried the Keo Easy pedals? They are supposed to have lower tension to make it easier to get out of for people who have the problem you do. You just rotate your heel either direction, like with other pedal systems, to unclip.

I like Keos with 4.5 degrees of float. I started out with 9 degrees, but I couldn't sprint, and I couldn't even stand up well without feeling like I was going to rip the cleat off my shoe. There was just too much wasted energy laterally. I don't like fixed cleats, though, because my joints and tendons like to have a little wiggle room.

I hate SPDs for a variety of reasons. I'm all about large platforms. Cafe covers help with walkability, but then I guess it depends on how much you need to walk and how important that is to you.

Would you mind explaining why you prefer large platforms? Do they provide more comfort and stability?

I appreciate everyone's reply. I'm buying a pair of Sidi Dominators which are MTBs (recessed cleat). I know that limits my choices but I want a recessed cleat. I think I want a platform on one side and clipess on the other, but I'm not sure. Some of our rides are stop and go in traffic and I'm wondering if clipless will be very difficult to master in those conditions. Someone mentioned a pedal that has a platform on one side and enables the rider to rest the foot until it is safe to clip in -- I can't remember the name of that one now.

[Eden]

Would you mind explaining why you prefer large platforms? Do they provide more comfort and stability?

I appreciate everyone's reply. I'm buying a pair of Sidi Dominators which are MTBs (recessed cleat). I know that limits my choices but I want a recessed cleat. I think I want a platform on one side and clipess on the other, but I'm not sure. Some of our rides are stop and go in traffic and I'm wondering if clipless will be very difficult to master in those conditions. Someone mentioned a pedal that has a platform on one side and enables the rider to rest the foot until it is safe to clip in -- I can't remember the name of that one now.

Large platforms can help if you suffer from hot spots (sore spots on the bottoms of your feet) - they distribute the force over a greater area on your foot. I used recessed SPD's on mt bike shoes for years and I never had a problem with hot spots. I do however have a small foot.... so even a small platform is fairly big for me. I still do sometimes use my mt bike shoes with Crank Bro's pedals during winter training rides. I think I notice a performance difference more because the mt bike shoes are more loose than because of the cleat style.

If you are racing it can also give you better power transfer to have a larger platform to push down on. This is going to be most noticeable in places like a sprint where you are really putting a lot of power into the pedals.

As far as dual sided pedals go. I think I've only seen them in SPD's, but that may have changed since the last time I looked.

[Flur]

Would you mind explaining why you prefer large platforms? Do they provide more comfort and stability?

I appreciate everyone's reply. I'm buying a pair of Sidi Dominators which are MTBs (recessed cleat). I know that limits my choices but I want a recessed cleat. I think I want a platform on one side and clipess on the other, but I'm not sure. Some of our rides are stop and go in traffic and I'm wondering if clipless will be very difficult to master in those conditions. Someone mentioned a pedal that has a platform on one side and enables the rider to rest the foot until it is safe to clip in -- I can't remember the name of that one now.

Crank Bros pedals might be a good option for you b/c all their pedals can be clipped in on either side, but they also have both small and large platform pedals that can be ridden easily without clipping in. This makes things easier b/c then you don't have to worry about flipping your pedal - you just clip in or not depending on what you want to do.

I did my first real ride on my candies today (Crank Bros "small platform" pedal). We rode a really popular path today, that has a number of road crossings with stops, and it was a beautiful day so there was a lot of bike and rollerblade traffic to the point where we had a few sudden stops. I had no issues with getting in and out of my pedals, even for the sudden stops, and I did pedal quite a few times across streets without clipping in without any issues.

Whatever pedal you pick, it really helps if before you put them on the bike, you take some time in your new shoes on your regular pedals to work on "unclipping". Each time you stop, think about rotating your foot out of the pedal. I did this for a couple of weeks before I got my pedals, I would just turn out my heel at each stop before putting my foot down. I really think that's helped me with my transition.