Will getting clipped in help my knees?

[joyrider]

I really got restarted cycling about six weeks ago - been building up VERY SLOWLY. Saw a sports med doc early on to talk about the crunching sound in my knees (had that since my two pregnancies) and how to protect my knees during riding. She did an xray, said everything looked fine except that my kneecaps track on the outside, common in women, not a major defect but what she described as a "setup for pain". So I've been going along okay, working on keeping a higher cadence, etc. noticing a little knee tweakiness after riding, plus additional achiness going up steps.
And then I decided it was time to start working on hills a little! Well, I would call them hills; you folks would probably call them "slight rises" or "bumps". So I did that two days in a row, both rides less than an hour long, and now the knees feel REALLY hinky. Esp. the left, with stinging, pain, sore to the touch. Been resting for two days, icing, off my bike :mad: and in a snit about it. Have an appointment with the sports med doc this Friday. I'm afraid she's going to tell me to lay off riding!
So I thought I'd bring this issue to the people I consider to be the REAL experts! Has anyone else had a similar experience? Any feedback would be appreciated!

[Jennifer Gallow]

Sounds like chondromalacia, that's what keeps me from running and why I found cycling (crikey I wish I found cycling sooner -- it's so much more fun for me than running!). My knees were well past the crunching stage into very painful catching and locking. I couldn't walk 15 steps without ending up in tears. The cycling and certain leg excercises were recommended -- two cousins are physical therapists, handy don't you know! -- and the difference was noticable almost right away. (the point being to strengthen the proper muscles to force the kneecap to track properly).

I found the clipless pedals did help -- Speedplay X series are very highly recommended for that particular knee ailment, and I agree, I love them -- as did making sure I wasn't pushing too hard a gear. Even now, if I take a hill too hard my knees feel it first. I also have to make sure I don't monkey around with saddle position too much ... too high or too low is tough on my knees too, and even too far forward or back.

But thats just my situation ... I'm not qualified to offer medical advice (if I was maybe I wouldn't be such a wreck all the time!). I just know that worked for me. I'm sure there are more knowledgable people who can chime in.

[SadieKate]

Yep, chondromalacia for me also. 4 knee operations when I fell backpacking and turned a chronic problem into acute with a tear on my kneecap. Did your doc talk to you about prescription orthotics? These can help align your knees. Without these, I wouldn't be doing anything active. Might be worth a little research. If you go this route, be sure to find a sports med podiatrist who works with cyclists so that he/she can fit the orthotic in your cycling shoe.

Clipless pedals help because I can pull up. The pushing down for hills can be a killer and strength is a critical factor.

Chrondromalacia for me means no tennis or volleyball any longer.

[joyrider]

As of now, I'm not riding with cycling shoes - but rather with a fairly stiff-soled running shoes with superfeet orthotics in them. And I guess I need to work harder with those exercises! My doc gave me a couple to do. But she wasn't all that informative when it came to protecting my knees while cycling - other than don't ride with your seat too low. If anyone can recommend a cycling-knowledgeable sports med doc in the South Bay, I'd love to hear about it!

[Susan126]

I would recommend getting a bike fit and orthotics. I had knee pain and a crackling right knee but after getting a bike fit and orthotics I've been pain free and no more crackling to boot! :)

[joyrider]

Saw my sports med doc on Friday. She said that with my knees, hills are going to give me pain. Period. She said I had arthritis in both knees, and she said she didn't like to tell me NOT to ride, but left the statement hanging, implying to me that if she could, she would. She said I just needed to do what I could to minimize "wear and tear" from here out, recommended glucosamine, and to keep up my exercises. Not very positive. :mad:
Argh! I really think it's my weight that makes docs think that the best I can hope for is to boogie down in water aerobics twice a week and to enjoy a full twenty minutes of chair stretching on Sundays.
Once we got talking, though, she said that getting fitted, losing weight, and getting clipped in all might help.
So I want to thank you folks again for being truly supportive. I know I can make this work. I think, though, that I need to switch to a solution oriented doctor.

[CorsairMac]

Keep us posted!!

[MomOnBike]

Joy,

Good for you, keeping the doc talking 'til there were more ideas about riding. I agree, getting a real fitting will probably help. Also, if you go clipless you can gear down and spin to give your knees a break. The idea is to reduce the pressure of each pedal stroke.

Go ahead and start taking glucosamine. But buy the glucosamine/chondroitin (sp?) supplements. The combination works much better than glucosamine alone. And give them time, it won't happen overnight, but your joints will start to feel better. Yes, that's what I take - the dog, too.

And don't give up on the water aerobics. Think of it as easy-on-the-joints cross-training.

MomOnBike (who really should get back in the pool and shape up the non-biking parts)

[CorsairMac]

Go ahead and start taking glucosamine. But buy the glucosamine/chondroitin (sp?) supplements. The combination works much better than glucosamine alone. And give them time, it won't happen overnight, but your joints will start to feel better. Yes, that's what I take - the dog, too.

MomOnBike (who really should get back in the pool and shape up the non-biking parts)

My turn to play mom now: just a word of warning, if you have a shellfish allergy, don't take glucosamine as it's made from shellfish.

Corsair "learned that the hard way" Mac

[Jennifer Gallow]

one more note -- Glucosamine is also in the Tangerine Emergen-C -- get your vitamin C at the same time!

[fixedgeargirl]

MSM may help with the chronic pain, too. I started taking it after reading a pamphlet from a natural grocery store which discussed studies done on MSM and osteoarthritis pain. In a nutshell, most people quit analgesics once they began taking 500mg. per day.

A daily dull ache was creeping into my left knee, which underwent ACL reconstruction last year. I saw quick relief once I started on MSM, in addition to glucosamine, and can feel it when I haven't had my dose.

[spazzdog]

I took glucosamine and MSM for my knees when I was marathon training. Dropped the chondroitin.

Glucosamine comes as a sulfate and a hydrochloride (HCI). So beware of shellfish allergies AND issues with sulfates.

The combo of glucosamine and MSM worked great for me back then. If I run into problems while cycling I'd do it again.

Oh, one other thing... not sure if anyone here experienced this but me and a few others I know got a bit, er... "tooty" on the MSM. It went away after about a week on the combo.

[MomOnBike]

OK, the brain is not working. What is MSM? And where does one get it?

MomOffBike (deadlines, bah!)
:mad:

[Bike Goddess]

:D I have degenerative arthritis in my knees. That said- I take MSM, Glucosamiine (no chondraitin as it comes from sharks and I am a vegetarian) and Calcium (EZorb)supplements which I purchase in powder form on the internet. (For those of you who don't know-look up MSM on internet. Easier that way than to try to explain here!)

When I first started taking this stuff, my knees were swollen and I couldn't walk far without a walking stick.

I started cycling as I couldn't run anymore. That was July 2003. I learned how to clip in on my new road bike in September of 03. The rest is history- lost 25-30lbs, have cycled thousands of miles, and am currently training to do the SF/LA AIDS ride in June. AND no walking stick!

Yes, clipping in helps. Yes, I think all this other stuff I take helps too!. Exercise is just plain good for your health! :D

Can you ride with a local club? Or friends? I find a schedule helps get me out for long rides and I like the social aspects of riding with others.

Good luck, let us know your progress! :)

[joyrider]

I've been taking the glucosamine/chondri-something for about two weeks and what a difference! Knee problem? What knee problem?
I even worry that what's happening is that the supplements are "masking" my knee pain and what I'm doing now is just grinding the crap out of my cartilage while under the influence of powerful painkillers...
Still going to get clipped in - probably taking the plunge early next week. Got the shoes. Got the spandex. Can't wait but afraid of falling!

[joyrider]

Thank you all again for all of your incredible support!

[CorsairMac]

I've been taking the glucosamine/chondri-something for about two weeks and what a difference! Knee problem? What knee problem?
I even worry that what's happening is that the supplements are "masking" my knee pain and what I'm doing now is just grinding the crap out of my cartilage while under the influence of powerful painkillers...
Still going to get clipped in - probably taking the plunge early next week. Got the shoes. Got the spandex. Can't wait but afraid of falling!

Good for you Joy - sounds like you got the knee pain under control. And great good luck on your pedals - let us know how it goes. Like someone around here said - don't be afraind of falling - it'll probably happen so just accept it! ;) I'm beginning to think it's a rite of passage - if someone tells you they've "never" fallen, they probably ain't using clipless! :-D

[spazzdog]

Hey joyrider; good to know you're doing well on the GLU/MSM combo.

I've had 2 scopes done on my left knee (1 to repair a dislocation and 1 that was supposed to be a torn meniscus; turned out to be a 70% surface fracture of the tibia). Needless to say, I've had chondromalachia for years.

I've found that certain exercises really help the tracking issue. Basically it invovles working all 4 of the quadraceps muscles and stretching the iliotibial band. If you cat "train the muscles" they will naturally keep the patella tracking correctly.

Let me know if you want the exercises (or you may already know this).

spazz (who's friends used to call her Festas)

[Bike Goddess]

Hey SD- Everything you say about cycling and nutrition (except for the meat part) is a mirror of what I believe as well. I wish I could cycle with YOU as well as the other great people I cycle with out here in Cali-for-nia! :) :) :)

I think you should be a coach- seriously. :D :D :D

[spazzdog]

Thanks BG... I like to coach, but I do it from the perspective of "them that can, do and them that can't, coach" :D

I've always been a mediocre athlete, but love all the sports I've participated in. Part of my MO is researching every teeny bit of a sport, so I end up with lots of info in my little pee-brain.

Having never been an "elite" athlete, I always come from the "common grrls" place of beginning at the bottom rather than the top.

It'd be nice to live out there where you can get more ride time in due to more cooperative weather. I know folks out here ride in the cold and the rain, but I just hate the stuff... so I wait for the warm days.

spazz

[Bike Goddess]

Well, SDog, I was thinkin that since you were lookin for some kind of monetary profession... fill in the rest!

I always say, find something you love and do that for a living! :D

[CorsairMac]

Well, SDog, I was thinkin that since you were lookin for some kind of monetary profession... fill in the rest!

I always say, find something you love and do that for a living! :D

cept I can't seem to find anyone that wants to pay a short,middle-aged, slightly overweight woman (me) to ride my bike! :p

[Susan126]

Let me know if you want the exercises (or you may already know this).

spazz (who's friends used to call her Festas)

Hey SD, could you pass along those exercises and stretches for the quads and iliotibial band. After a slacking winter I find my right knee and inner thigh tight this spring. I have started off easy and I am slowly building my strength and endurance back up to what it used to be like way back in October (before my winter hibernation began). This was the first winter that I did nothing. I'm ashamed of myself for allowing this to happen. Needless to say it will not happen this winter! But getting back in shape at (51) is not like it used to be at 31 or even 41!!!! But my legs do have "memory" and I find improvement daily!

Thanks . . . Sue

[spazzdog]

WE could start our own pro racing team... self-supported like a little cottage industry.

Names:

Just Fixin To (JFT) Spinners
Cookie Dough Moms (CDM)
Neener Neener Neener (NNN) Pastya
Martini Mashers


And to bring back around... we'll do it with good heathy knees.

[DirtDiva]

After all, I can drink faster than I can ride. :p

[nuthatch]

Why don't we work on getting the feds or state govs to let our women's cycling team tour the country sharing the joys and benefits of cycling to America's youth - it would reduce our health care costs, reduce type 2 diabetes in the young, provide an economic boost for the cycling industry, strengthen the cycling lobby's efforts to encourage communities to make themselves more cycle-friendly, etc. Everyone's a winner. Part of the President's Council on Physical Fitness and Sports. Hmmm, perhaps Martini Mashers would need to be reconsidered....

Along the knee question theme - do any of you Glucosamine/MSM users experience any stomach problems when you take it? I tried it for about a week and had to quit because my reflux and IBS got so bad. Any alternate forms of it around that address that problem? I've got bad-ish knees and want to protect what knee health I've got. I can't imagine life without cycling! In fact, I'm hoping I'm out riding a bike when I keel over at 95. :D

[RoadRaven]

I absolutely recommend glucosamine too, but sorry nuthatch, I don't know of alternatives... although I do remember hearing of an arthritis study conducted somewhere in the States (LOL, that REALLY narrows it down) where people due for a hip replacement (as in chronic, top of the operating list) were given a tablespoon of powdered chicken cartilage in a glass of orange juice for three months and less than 5% still needed an operation or had any pain at all... dunno if that product has been developed or marketed in the States - haven't seen it here.

I find that hill riding (going up) makes my knees work hard, and I never do two days of hills (for hills, read the upward inclines that make you work, whther they are mountains or hillocks) in a row - give your knees time to recover.

As you ride more, you develop the muscles around your knees, and they give support and help protect...

As you ride more, you begin to lose weight, and having lost my first half stone, I feel easier climbing hills, I mean, thats half a stone I don't need to drag along with me!

And I have def found cleats on my pedals/shoes help
- going up because I can pull a little...
- going along a straight because I have better momentum and both legs seem to do less work for the same effort, if that makes sense...

Take it easy and be patient... hopefully your body will strengthen to supportt those joints and riding will be a joy...

[joyrider]

Nuthatch - I find the glucosamine/chondroitin supplement I take makes me queasy if I don't take it on a full stomach OR if I try to take it at the same time I take my vitamins, fish oil, etc. Ick. But I don't have reflux issues... Wondering, though, if maybe taking the supplements in the form of a powder mixed with liquid or a smoothie (Trader Joe's carries something called "Joint Powder") would be easier on you? Maybe not hang out in your stomach causing trouble for too long? Also, the bottle I have says to take up to three a day and I take only one. Trying to seek the minimum level, you know!
I'm also assuming some weight loss will help with me. I use the semi truck vs. Porsche analogy - it's not that the Porsche's greater power makes it zip up the hills faster than the truck, it's just that it's carrying A LOT LESS CARGO! :)

[spazzdog]

I always took mine (with my assorted vitamins) with one of those drinkable yogurts (Stoneyfield) or a SLimFast drink (royal chocolate...mmmm). I liked the SlimFast drink best because it made for a good pre-ride drink.

No problems!

[RoadRaven]

A good exercise to strengthen knees...

Lie on the bed on your back... put a couple of pillows under your knees...

Lift your legs to straight (no higher - don't lift your thighs)

Repeat up to 100 times...

As your legs get stronger - or if they are already strong, attach a weight to your ankles (just a small one) for extra resistance... a pillow balanced on top can be enough

Have fun working out!

LOL... Time to workout... I'm just off to lie down

[Bike Goddess]

Along the knee question theme - do any of you Glucosamine/MSM users experience any stomach problems when you take it? I tried it for about a week and had to quit because my reflux and IBS got so bad.

Yes, try the powdered form for both MSM and Glucosamine from Innate Source. You will find them on the internet :D

I've been buying this stuff from them for 2 years now. I mix it with my honey/'applecider vinegar concoction in the morning, then wait 20minutes before eathing anything else. Drinking juice or water OK.

[spazzdog]

The MSM caused a bit of flatulence (eh-hmmm) but it settled down after a while. I found if I took it with my drinky yogurt or SLimFast it made a less dramatic landing in my system.

spazz

[joyrider]

OK, so I got my clips! Tried them out today in the doorway - am having a hard time finding the right spot with my foot. But clipped in and out a coupla times - then went out in the backyard to tool around, experiment with clipping my left foot in and out... Luckily, I was wearing my HELMET, because after a few passes, I was unable to clip out in time and smacked my head against the side of the house when I went down. I hit pretty hard - nauseous and unsteady afterward.
So I came back inside pretty discouraged. It's taking a lot more muscle than I thought to jerk my foot out of the clip, and the LBS put it on the loosest setting for me!
I am just realizing that my learning curve is going to be long. Too bad I'm not more coordinated!

[CorsairMac]

OK, so I got my clips! Tried them out today in the doorway - am having a hard time finding the right spot with my foot. But clipped in and out a coupla times - then went out in the backyard to tool around, experiment with clipping my left foot in and out... Luckily, I was wearing my HELMET, because after a few passes, I was unable to clip out in time and smacked my head against the side of the house when I went down. I hit pretty hard - nauseous and unsteady afterward.
So I came back inside pretty discouraged. It's taking a lot more muscle than I thought to jerk my foot out of the clip, and the LBS put it on the loosest setting for me!
I am just realizing that my learning curve is going to be long. Too bad I'm not more coordinated!

first: congrats on the clip(less which just cracks me up every time!). There is a learning curve but one of the things that might help is to think of turning your foot sideways instead of "jerking" your foot out. It should take a quick twist of the heel to unclip. think of it as pivoting on the ball of your foot (make sense?) and see if that doesn't help. don't get discouraged - we've all been there done that got the jersey! ;)

[oph4887]

Suppose to go out for a long ride this weekend, first time using clipless on both feet. One suggestion on the website I found was to use one pedal and the other clippless-that was great and it seemed to work. I had some bad falls since I wasn't able to clip out and was terrified of getting back on the bike again. Hopefully this ride Sunday will be without any trauma. Good luck. This site has been wonderful and I've read so many great suggestions. Trying to get a divorce and since it's been a year and still trying decided to try this road bike stuff. I've taught spinning for 3 years now and decided to take it outside.
Thanks to everyone for all the great ideas.
;)

[snowtulip]

Hi Ladies,
I would also suggest adjusting your cleats to make them easier to get out of. You can adjust to where you basically come out with the slightest movement (beginning) and then adjust to harder as you get used to the timing and movement. Your LBS should be able to do this for you.

I also have knee issues and balance exercises have really helped strengthen all those little muscles that are needed to keep your knee aligned properly. Even just balancing on one leg for a period of time can really make a difference.

Good Luck! ;)

[joyrider]

Snowtulip - do you mean the cleat on the shoe can be adjusted? Because the clip on the pedal is supposed to be set on its loosest setting.
Maybe it's just the pedals... They are Wellgo. Platform on one side, clips on the other. (I was assuming I would be a slow learner!) I literally have to put my whole weight (and that's ALOT!) onto the pedal to get clipped in, and give it a good yank to get clipped out. Can they be lubed to facilitate clipping in and out, I wonder?
Went for a nice, long unclipped cruise today. Even I have to get off the pity pot, eventually! :D
Thank you everyone for your encouraging feedback!
Need to go do some yoga now to straighten out this cranky neck...
I wonder if I should have included chiropractor fees into my calculations of the cost of being clipped...

[annie]

Joy,

What type of cleats do you have to go with your Wellgo pedals? Are the cleats Shimano SPD's? I know they are supposed to be ocmpatible, but, unfortunately, that is not always the case. Could you try your shoes/cleats on someone's bike that has Shimano pedals? If they clipped in and out more easily, then you'd know it was your pedals. Just a thought............

annie

[joyrider]

So you're saying it should be easier to clip in and out?
I'll have to talk to my LBS!

[annie]

So you're saying it should be easier to clip in and out?
I'll have to talk to my LBS!

Yes, if the pedal is truly set on it's easiest/loosest setting, you SHOULD be able to clip in and out with ease! I have my MTB pedals set loosely and have actually had my feet slip out on all their own occasionally ( not often - only on really rocky, bumpy-type areas.) But that's how easy it should be to clip in and out. If you can't do it, then my guess is that something is wrong, either with the pedals, cleats, or the instruction they gave you on how to clip in/out. Definitely go back to the LBS and explain what's going on.

Oh - and yes, they can be lubed. I squirt a tiny bit of lube on the pedals, let it coat the surface, and then wipe off the excess. You can also dab lube on the cleats then put them into the pedals to get the lube on that way.

Good luck! Don't get discouraged. The pedals are worth the effort it takes to get started on them. :cool:

annie