my brooks is getting a cutout!

[divingbiker]

Today I mailed my Brooks B68 off to the Selle Anatomica people to have a cutout put in it. I'm going on vacation for a week and a half, so I thought it was a good opportunity to ship it off while I'm not commuting.

I'll report back in two weeks, after I've ridden it. Hope I'm not making a mistake!

[Thorn]

LOL....I left for vacation at the end of May and shipped my B68 to Selle Anatomica. It was waiting for me when I got home last week.

My reviews are mixed.....looking forward to yours.

[mimitabby]

more details please?

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

I can't imagine that a brooks would behave or feel the same way as a Selle A with a cutout- the Brooks' leather is SO much thicker and heavier. :confused:

[mimitabby]

Tom started his business by buying brooks saddles and cutting them out. Then the price of the Brooks went up and he decided to make his own. (the An-Atomica)

I am very interested in the results of this surgery.

[momof4greatkids]

Brooks is test-riding a new model called "Imperial" (I have one on my Serotta) which is a B17 w/a cutout.

I've ridden it since May 23rd and I am so impressed.

I was always dealing w/pain from my saddle. I had a Terry Butterfly. I thought saddle pain was just something I was going to have to learn to live with.

Wrong.

The Imperial has healed my hurts. I absolutely love it.

I believe this model will be available for sale from Brooks very soon.

There is a discussion along w/pics here, if anyone is interested

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=408695

Colleen

[Thorn]

I was going to post pictures last weekend of the saddle, but the camera batteries died. I'll try again this weekend (or...eventually, divingbiker will get hers posted :p )

Basically, SA takes your brooks, cuts the slot and then reinforces the bottom of the saddle with another piece of leather. The end result is a Brooks-atomica.

I currently have the saddle on the trainer bike...and due to heavy rains and flooding the trainer bike is getting quite a bit of usage :mad:

Before the saddle surgery, the saddle was OK as long as I rode sitting up. With the B68 I finally had a saddle I actually sat on top of. However, I couldn't tolerate even riding the hoods on the trainer bike (note: the top tube is too long for me on that bike so the hoods are a stretch). Without a cutout the B68 was not a solution so I sent it off for saddle surgery.

After the saddle surgery, I can tolerate riding the drops on that bike and on that bike the drops put my back almost parallel to the floor.

That said, I'm not totally convinced. Prior to this I have been riding a Selle SMP Lady Strike--just a little too narrow for the sit bones, but it has a wonderfully wide cutout albiet a bit squishy of a saddle. So I've been spoiled with a cutout that is a real cutout, not these slots that have evil dreams of pinching anything that sits on them.

The Brooks-atomica is a narrow cutout and the edges are a little rough. So riding the BA isn't as comfortable, cutout-wise, as the Selle SMP, but it seems pretty close. Being able to sit fully on the saddle has taken away the hip numbness I got from the SMP.

So, I need more time on the saddle to sway my internal jury as to whether I did the right thing....and about that time, I suspect the B68 Imperial will hit the streets.

[mimitabby]

very cool, thanks for the link to the thread.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

I'm still wondering how to resolve the basic problem that women (and men) experience on bikes that have your position way down like a racing crouch.

If you sit upright in a chair with good posture, almost all your weight is on your sitbones and very little weight on your sensitive frontal soft parts.
If you then lean forward with your hands and grasp your legs between your ankles and your calves, you'll be sort of simulating the biking racer posture that so many of today's bikes have. Notice your weight then comes right down on your girly sensitive parts and your sitbones are no longer the major weight bearers.
This is why so many women are having pain with their saddles. I'm not so sure it's really the saddles' faults, but perhaps more the fault of the forward crouch racing position so widespread today. Seeking a saddle that helps lessen the pain of this unnatural weight bearing position is just a bandaid for a basically painful setup.
The majority of vintage bikes for the masses (city bikes, touring bikes, mixtes and cruisers)had people sitting a bit more upright.

Can this be solved? I don't know. If you lean far forward on your bike you need support under your front pubic bone and that's where your weight comes down. If you lean back straight upright you only need support for your sitbones, much further back.
Ideas?

[mimitabby]

I'm still wondering how to resolve the basic problem that women (and men) experience on bikes that have your position way down like a racing crouch.

If you sit upright in a chair with good posture, almost all your weight is on your sitbones and very little weight on your sensitive frontal soft parts.
If you then lean forward with your hands and grasp your legs between your ankles and your calves, you'll be sort of simulating the biking racer posture that so many of today's bikes have. Notice your weight then comes right down on your girly sensitive parts and your sitbones are no longer the major weight bearers.
This is why so many women are having pain with their saddles. I'm not so sure it's really the saddles' faults, but perhaps more the fault of the forward crouch racing position so widespread today. Seeking a saddle that helps lessen the pain of this unnatural weight bearing position is just a bandaid for a basically painful setup.
The majority of vintage bikes for the masses (city bikes, touring bikes, mixtes and cruisers)had people sitting a bit more upright.

Can this be solved? I don't know. If you lean far forward on your bike you need support under your front pubic bone and that's where your weight comes down. If you lean back straight upright you only need support for your sitbones, much further back.
Ideas?

+++

[KnottedYet]

I think we're already seeing the change from the high-fashion weekend warrior wannabe look, to the more utility cyclist. Look at the popularity of mixtes and Electra Townies and Dutch bikes of all sorts.

As gas prices continue to climb, we'll likely see more comfortable "city" bikes and a concordant drift of accessories (wider saddles, functional panniers and baskets, lighting, bright colored clothing)

Just look at how the shape of helmets has changed over the last 30 years. First they were round, then faux-aero, now they are becoming round again. That is fashion more than function for the vast majority of riders. (how many of us REALLY needed teardrop shaped helmets 15-20 years ago? Honestly?) Or quill stems? They disappeared for a decade or so, cuz racers weren't using them and suddenly they were unfashionable. Now they are coming back, cuz they're so darn useful and dependable.

Bear in mind though, that the cutting edge is where the innovations are. We need racers and "X-treme" riders, to enrich the mundane biking worlds most of us ride in. Look at how many folks assume that indexed shifting is necessary! How many of today's kids even know how to shift friction, let alone ever owned a bike with friction shifting?

As far as saddles go: let's not forget that Brooks had a patent on "cut outs" long before Georgena started crankin' 'em out and started a new revolution. For the anatomy of some women (and I've seen more female anatomy in my job than I ever dreamed I would) a cut out is a real necessity, just like for some of us a ridiculously wide saddle is a necessity. I'm grateful for the variety of women's saddles, I just wish companies didn't assume "wide" always requires more padding or that "women's" always requires an extra wide nose and big cut out.

Bikes were transportation, then toys, now they are becoming transportation again. Things will change. In another generation they'll probably be toys again, and I will feel like a fool for hootin' and hollerin' about bikes as the best transportation option in my neck of the woods.

[Thorn]

This is an amazing forum....I've learned a lot, I've laughed, I've cried, but threads like this raise my blood pressure. I'm probably reading more into this that I should, but, after a few "TE flames" maybe I'm just senstive. So, take this with a large grain of salt and let me know if I should just delete it.

We all have different needs and wants from our bikes. We are all shaped differently. Sure, a B68 will work if I sit bolt upright, but that riding position won't last for the 6-8 hours I'd like to be on the bike every now and then. For the time I spend on the bike, the classic triangle riding position is better.

Bolt-upright also is not as efficient a riding position. Yes, there is the aerodynamics question, but more importantly is the ability to engage different muscle groups. If your bike is designed to be ridden upright, you're limited to riding positions and to which muscle groups you can use. My road bike gives me more positions (including one that is close to upright) and lets me switch positions frequently. Some of those positions mean I'm bent forward.

Since I will ride bent forward by choice because it fits my riding goals, I need a saddle that supports me. Because my pelvis is wide in the rear, I need a saddle that supports it. The Selle SMP model does actually support at the pubic bone as well as the ischial tuberosities. The cutout means the sensitive parts aren't squashed. For those that fit on one of the models, it is the ultimate saddle. For me it just isn't quite wide enough and a little squishy. In my quest for my perfect saddle, I've chosen to mutilate a B68. Will it work? I don't know. Is it right for Lisa and Mimi? Probably not. Is it right for DivingBiker and me? Time will tell.

The upright riding style is more accessible to people. It feels closer to riding in a car--checking for obstacles is a more natural motion. For many, it is a more stable riding platform. For those reasons I think it is popular. And, that is a great thing--it means that more people are outside and more people riding. But that riding style and purpose isn't for everyone. One size does not fit all.

[momof4greatkids]

An important factor in solving this problem is first and foremost, (IMHO-YMMV-see disclaimer :p ), is getting a good bike fit.

When we ignore that first, crucial step, lots of problems can ensue that cannot be correct by simply changing saddles.

A good bike fitter will assess your biomechanics in every position on the bike, from the hoods to the drops.

Another important thing that women, ESPECIALLY need to remember, (especially post-childbearing women who may have laxity in this area), is you need to maintain a strong pelvic girdle. When you are in the drops, you need to maintain a pelvic tilt.

If your pelvic floor sags forward, yes the girl parts will suffer mightily.

You gotta stay on the sitbones. Easier said, than done

That's my .02

Colleen





Can this be solved? I don't know. If you lean far forward on your bike you need support under your front pubic bone and that's where your weight comes down. If you lean back straight upright you only need support for your sitbones, much further back.
Ideas?

[KnottedYet]

Oooh, a cool tid-bit about the flexed forward position: as we know, it lets you engage your gluteus muscles (yer "butt", in the vernacular) and perks up your hamstrings. Hip extension is a powerful force on the bike. Everyone has their own best angle for muscle engagement.

I had a patient who really couldn't understand why being flexed forward at all was a good thing, and I stole an example right out of the fitting class I took. Think of when you do a footrace. You crouch a bit at the starting line, right? Or think of speed skaters, they crouch at the starting line. That crouch is hip flexion to engage the butt and hammies. Crouching primes the pump for some of our powerful muscles.

So, crouch like you're gonna race across the street. Now imagine taking your position and putting it on the bike. Voila!

Now, how much flexion your body can sustain is dependent on a million things. How much flexion is functional for your riding environment is dependent on a million things, too.

I'm one of those folks who likes to stretch waaaay out and be a little bit low. My big butt likes powering along at that less-than-45-degree torso angle. My more upright bike feels very different, and I can certainly tell I lose a lot of power at that 60-degree torso angle. But on that bike I gain a higher view of the world and a more "look ma, I'm flying" sense of fun. And when I want more power on that bike, I can feel myself dropping down to my "usual" angle by bending my elbows, so I can kick in my honkin' gigantic butt.

Fashions change. Remember in the 1980's when mtn bikes burst onto the scene? Big fashion shift. Now I think we're seeing the beginnings of a fashion shift toward city/utility bikes and accessories. More bikes, more variety, more folks finding the bike that fits their bodies and needs, more bike love, more better.

It's all good.

[Trek420]

As my LBS says "you're faster when you're more comfortable"

Get comfortable whatever that is for you :D Everybody is different.

[Peddlin' Girl]

I was having LOTs of girly parts problems, partly saddle issues, partly bike fit. I am now riding in a much more upright position, but can still go down into the drops for short periods. I also switched to an old Terry Liberator with a huge cutout (at least compared to anything on the market today) and that solved the problem. Now I have to find another saddle because the Liberator is about to bite the dust. I'm thinking about the An-atomica based on the readings on this forum. BTW, the more upright position also helped the piriformis pain I was having. The upright position works your glutes more and hamstrings less.

[lph]

I can't stand riding upright. Sure, my butt is comfortable, but my body feels like a honking huge sail. Make that "anchor". So I'll gladly spend the money and time and testing it takes to find a saddle that will let me ride leaning forward. Moving as fast and efficiently as I can is one of the big kicks I personally get out of riding a road bike :) We all get our kicks in different ways ;)

PS. I ride somewhat more upright on my mtb bike, and prefer it in city traffic at lower speeds and with more need for quick maneuvering.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Just for the record.....few bikes have you riding 'bolt upright'.
Here's how I look on my Rivendell bike (part touring bike, part road bike)....with my B68....not bolt upright at all, yet still much more upright than most of today's road bikes. Almost all my weight is on my sitbones. Note how the handlebars and the saddle are close to the same height:
http://harmonias.com/Lisa%20on%20drops.jpg

[Thorn]

And that is enough of a bend that some of us require a cutout. We're all different.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

And that is enough of a bend that some of us require a cutout. We're all different.

Yes we are all different, definitely. :)

But just clarifying that riding a Brooks comfortably doesn't necessarily mean one sits 'bolt upright'. ;)

But yes i think it gets harder and harder to be comfortable on the girly parts the lower down one's bike posture gets, and likewise harder to find a saddle that is comfortable in that position.

[Tuckervill]

Since I've lost 42 lbs. (please take note of the TWO since my last update :) ), I've even lost some "down there", so my saddle and everything feels different this year. I don't have near the problem with squishy bits I had last year.

Karen

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Congratulations Karen, that's a lot to lose! Wow you must have had to buy all new clothes! (I can think of worse fates). ;) :D

[Tuckervill]

Thanks! :D I had a 6 week plateau during baseball season (I have to go and make hot dogs at 4:00 p.m. every day and end up eating something horrible because I'm so busy from there on in--but at least I didn't gain). So I'm so glad finally be losing again. Those plateaus STINK, I tell ya.

I did buy all new clothes, and I can wear medium shirts for the first time in 15 years, at least. :)

At least 20 lbs. to go. My mom told me I was too skinny. :P

Karen

[Andrea]

Thanks! :D I had a 6 week plateau during baseball season (I have to go and make hot dogs at 4:00 p.m. every day and end up eating something horrible because I'm so busy from there on in--but at least I didn't gain). So I'm so glad finally be losing again. Those plateaus STINK, I tell ya.

I did buy all new clothes, and I can wear medium shirts for the first time in 15 years, at least. :)

At least 20 lbs. to go. My mom told me I was too skinny. :P

Karen

Way to get back into it! Moms always say that... I think it's how we know we're on the right track!

[divingbiker]

Well, my first impression of the Anatomica-ized Brooks B68 is...I like it! A lot!

Rode it on my commute today, and it was very comfortable. I'm planning to lower the bars an inch or so (now that saddle-wise, I can) so we'll see how that goes. But I'm optimistic, based on how good it felt this morning.

[KnottedYet]

Hoooray! :D