Cat advice.

[Brandi]

I am asking for my sister.
She has a cat named Max who was born with part of one leg missing. He does sooo well with it. It is amazing. He is a strickly indoor cat for obvious reasons. Well since my niece has been sick Max has been knawing on his stump and chewing it a bit raw.Unfortunatly with the baby being sick and all he has not gotten as much attention as he has in the past.
Well they took him to the vet and they gave him a shot. It worked for a while and he started knawing on it again. Now the vet is saying they should cut more of his leg off. Because the nerves are what is making him knaw on it. But if he never had the leg in the first place why would it all of sudden after 7 years be bugging him. And my sister does not understand why the vet thinks that would even help?
I suggested getting a 2nd opinion on it or a kitten to keep him busy. He used to have a sister but she had a poop problem (won't get into details) could he be missing her and feeling alone. Anybody have advice?

[mimitabby]

get a second opinion but the vet is probably right. it's very sad.

[Brandi]

get a second opinion but the vet is probably right. it's very sad.

Awww... why can you explain?

[KnottedYet]

In humans it's called "phantom limb pain." Nerves are odd things, and poor guy is probably suffering if gnawing on his own flesh is a RELIEF compared to what he is feeling in the limb.

[Flur]

I second the second opinion. I'm of the mind that before getting non-emergency surgery it's always a good idea to get a second opinion, even if the patient is furry.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Get a second opinion before you let them cut more of his leg off. :(

[Blueberry]

It could be behavioral - and not phantom limb pain. We have a kitty who periodically licks raw places on her tummy. It may be that the limb is just what's sticking out there and convenient for him to mess with.

I don't see how cutting more off could help - there would still be phantom pain, no?

Get a second opinion, and maybe try an e-collar?

CA

[KnottedYet]

I think humans with phantom limb pain get neurontin or other good pain meds. There must be something similar for cats? Some folks get acupuncture, and I know there are pet acupuncturists who work on cats.

Paging JesVetMed! We need you here!

[Wahine]

If the cat was born without that part of his limb... I'm thinking that phantom limb pain would be unlikely. But who knows, I wish we could ask the cat. I would guess... and this is a big guess... that it's behavioural and that he's hitting that limb because it's an easier target since it's shorter. It's especially interesting that this happened at the same time as the toddler got sick.

Jesvetmed - where are you....???

[LBTC]

Aw, the poor kitty! I'll send some butterflies right away!

Please do get a second opinion, of course! But, if more than one vet recommends amputation, from someone who has gone through a furry kid amputation - if it's the right thing to do, the cat will adjust super well and much faster than anyone will expect. They are a wonder!

Some thoughts about the behaviour:

Cats and dogs do better on three legs than 3 1/2. The partial limb can get in the way and easily be injured while running, jumping, etc. There's a chance the limb was injured at some point and that's when the gnawing started....

The cat is now 7 years old, generally considered middle aged. She's had an unusual gait due to the different limb and may be experiencing other muscle and joint imbalances, or even the beginnings of arthritis. Perhaps there is a pain transferance going on?

Humans in very early stages of some types of liver disfunction can experience itchiness in the extremities. It might be worth it to have liver enzymes tested?

The timing is defnitely of interest. Either from the point of view that the cat understands there is a problem, can't help and is frustrated by that; or that the cat needs more attention and has found a way to get it. Personally, neither of those theories "feel" right to me in this case.

I have also heard of and known people whose furry kids have experienced the very same phsyical disorders as their people, usually in advance. (I had a friend who had two dogs who both had Addisons, and he was later diagnosed with Addisons. There was another local family whose dog died of the same cancer that the owner was being treated for.) Some look only to the physical environment as being the cause for these "coincidences", but I think there's some connection there that we don't and maybe will never understand. Something in the realm of quantum physics.

For most of the scenarios I've outlined above, acupuncture is an excellent therapy to start. Getting a good diagnosis may be hard or even impossible, but it's worth more investigating before proceeding with something as invasive as surgery, and would help an acupuncturist develop the best treatment.

Many hugs and lots of butterflies to the whole family! What a lot they've been through this year!!

And to you, too, Brandi!

~T~

[bmccasland]

Kitty could be reacting to the anxiety in the house. Her fur buddy is gone, and the baby has been ill for some time.

Back before TE and my job was driving me insane, my doctor put me on antidepressants. Meanwhile, my dog was constantly licking her front leg, creating lick granulomas. I remember talking to my sister about the dog, and she said something to the effect "dummy, YOU"RE on meds because you're upset, poor Nala doesn't know what's going on". Of course no one suggested that both of us should go for a walk.

But dogs are different from kitties.

I would definitely get a second opinion before surgery, especially since the kitty has been able to cope with the stumpy leg up until now. In the mean time, can the family make a point of playing with kitty every day? Or maybe adopting another kitty to play with in addition to the humans spending a bit of quality time?

And maybe some of LBTC's butterflies will flit around... Just out of reach... to keep her amused.

[mimitabby]

There have been cases of mom cats chewing off part of kittens' feet at birth, I know of one through our rescue. She eats the placenta and the umbilical cord, it's easy to see how a nervous inexperienced mom cat might make a mistake like that. And if t hat's the case, what's on that leg might have healed in a messy way causing lots of pain.

[Brandi]

I really appreciate all the opinions here. I will pass on all you said to my sister and let her decide what she should do. I was thinking a new fur buddy as well.
When we travel my cat Bo will lick bald spots on he's belly and legs. He does not do this when I am home. Lucky for us though he's little sister keeps him busy now. And he doesn't do it as much. On our longer trips during the summer though he seems to do it. And I have a long one this summer, gone a month, home 3 days, gone 26 days. They are going to hate me at the end of this summer! I will have to REALLY spoil them when I get home. I opted out of a bike trip at the end of all that for them. my dh is going though, it is my wedding anni presant to him.

[smilingcat]

Sounds more like a behavioral problem. Since the cat was born with the condition (as I read it) and he is 7 years old, its hard for me to see this as a phantom limb thing. And the timing between this new behavior and your niece getting sick tells me that he is doing this for attention and reflecting the nervousness within the family.

Take the 7 yr old kitty to a vet, preferably a vet with more behavioral experience. I just think he needs a playmate, some active toys wih catnip.

The self inflicted injury may be itching so he might be continuing with the gnawing so a trip to the vet is probably worth while. And to kep him from chewing after he heals, you may need to observe his behavior and have a consultation with animal behaviorist.

Personally, I think someon in the family needs to play with him or get him a another kitty playmate. Even though he is 7 years old, he may do better with a young male cat. Don't ask why but we have had more problems with girl kitties when we foster. Neutered males were the easiest in terms getting along wih other cats.

smilingcat

[mimitabby]

Personally, I think someon in the family needs to play with him or get him a another kitty playmate. Even though he is 7 years old, he may do better with a young male cat. Don't ask why but we have had more problems with girl kitties when we foster. Neutered males were the easiest in terms getting along wih other cats.

smilingcat

good advice

[Brandi]

I agree as well. And Besides the kids would love to have a new kitty. And god knows there are lot's out there that need a good home.

[Brandi]

I sent an email to Jesvetmed to see if she has any advice. Thanks for the suggestions.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Parrots (very intelligent birds) often start chewing at their feet when they get bored and ignored. Getting a mirror and more toys or turning on a tv for them can help, as can getting any kind of companion bird (not necessarily in the same cage, just nearby).

[jesvetmed]

Oh sure -- I go on a bike ride with the club and to the pub after, and you guys need me?! Sorry I was out!

Well, I agree with multiple things here --

1) Could have had a small injury or irritation that started the process. I'm quite interested in the "got an injection and it helped for a bit".. was this a steroid? If so, it's an anti-inflammatory and the area could have been responding to injection, and not irritating the cat for a bit, and therefore he left it alone. So, I'd look into skin scrapings for odd things (mites), and send to lab for culture for ringworm, and also for culture for bacteria. A basic punch biopsy of the area (small 3 to 5mm ring of skin taken) can help define many of these things at the laboratory. Anything odd turns up, treat it aggressively and see what happens.

2) Yes, most pets do better on 3 than 3.5 limbs. But, as you said, 7 yrs old and suddenly something has changed.

3) Yes, many cats will over-groom with stress or boredom. Yours may just have an easy time getting to this area instead of the belly, rear limbs, etc. Try a plug-in of a relaxing hormone (your vet should be able to get you this -- I admit, I cannot remember the name of it now). But it comes in a spray and a plug-in, and emits calming hormones. Give him more attention and exercise.

4) Try an e-collar (the lampshade) if he is getting the area raw.

5) Any change in diet / environment that could be irritating the skin? They can have many allergies to stuff they come in contact with or stuff they breathe or eat. Make sure all is the same.

6) Treat for fleas NO MATTER WHAT. Flea allergies can be hard to diagnose, and it's easy to treat just in case. DO NOT use the over-the-counter spot treatments such as Sargeants or Hart's, etc. Use Advantage or Frontline -- best out there.

Hope this helps. If all of these are ruled out, (2nd opinion at the dermatology specialist is an excellent idea) and he continues to self mutilate, then amputation is your last option. I would worry that he could still mutilate the stump, although it would be almost flush with the body wall, so less likely to cause trouble. But the habit is still there -- self grooming like this can release endorphins in the brain, making the habit very hard to get rid of. Sort of like our exercise habits!

Good luck and keep us informed!
Jes