Different Cassette?

[Aggie_Ama]

Okay, I am going to try to ask my question without sounding too stupid. I currently have the stock set up on my Cannondale, 30/39/50 with 12-25 rear. I read about some of you running mountain or touring set ups on your bikes. I really like climbing rides but I am not strong and they often suck the life out of me after only a few miles. I do not anticipate ever having enough hours in the day to train to get better, so I need to make life a *little* easier.

What is needed to make an easier set up for the steep hill country? Do I have to change everything (shifters, deraileur, cassette) or can I just change the cassette? Also will I be giving up the ability to go fast on the descents, I already run out of gears?

And just in case I didn't get the information right, this is my bike:
http://www.cannondale.com/bikes/07/cusa/jfw/road/model-7RWC3T.html

[SadieKate]

I assume this is a 9 spd bike? Because that what my answer assumes. . .

You need to know what kind of rear derailleur you have (short, med or long cage). Since you have a triple, you probably have a rear derailleur that can handle up to a 27 Shimano cassette or maybe a 28 SRAM 9 (about one more gear than you have now). If you swap the rear der to a Shimano XT, you can put on a Shimano or SRAM cassette with a large cog of 32 or 34 (about 3 to 4 gears lower than currently).

You will need a new chain to accomodate the larger cassette no matter what. So determine your rear derailleur's capacity and then choose a cassette to match, or budget in a new rear derailleur also.

Editing -- I'm taking almost everything back that I said above because the bike is a 10 spd. You can put on a 28 SRAM 10-spd cassette. I didn't look at the rear derailleur specs, but you need to be sure the cage will handle the larger cassette.

[SadieKate]

Since you're running a 50 as your large chain ring, you could also swap your granny for a 26 or 28. You'd want to do the same research (talk to your LBS) about whether than rear derailler can take up all the chain length.

[Aggie_Ama]

Thanks SK, always a wealth of knowledge.:) My bike is about due for a new chain, so I will talk to the LBS about a different cassette first.

I think just one more gear would help, although if I ever want to get up Jester (.75 miles and 17%) I need more than one extra gear.

I am totally clueless, but swapping the granny would to a 26 or 28 would also make things easier? By that I mean I could in theory spin longer up the hills? Right now I am down to mashing on the pedals to barely pull myself up the big hills and I am completely dead at the top.

[SadieKate]

Anytime you can go both smaller on the front and larger on the back you are going to gain more low gears. Not knowing the capacity of your derailleurs but knowing that you're unwilling to change your chain yourself tells me that you should put this in the hands of your shop mechanic.:) You are stuck with the capacity of your front der, but you could possibly go as low as a 26 ring. The rear der could be swapped out for a mtb rear derailleur and then you can go as much as a 34.

Do you use the granny gear much? What type of terrain do you normally ride? A lot of flat with a scattering of hills? For that, I'd prefer the smaller granny and only the 28 cassette. Then you won't lose the close spacing of the cassette for the flatter portions of your rides. On flat terrain, the big jumps between gears on a large cassette drives me bonkers because I always want the gear inbetween.

[Triskeliongirl]

The simplist thing to do is swap the 12/25 for a 12/27 but I don't think that will get you low enough.

As SK recommended, I also recommend replacing the RD with an XT or XTR, and putting on an 11/34 casette. (These are mountain parts, but they'll work just fine). I ride the hill country and I use a 50/34 in front with an 11/34 in back. This too is assuming you are running 9spd, but I know that terry is spec'ing their new Isis sport with a 10 spd 11 or 12/34 casetted by SRAM so it must also be possible for 10 spd.

If you do this I don't think you need to mess with your front chain rings at all.

[Aggie_Ama]

Not knowing the capacity of your derailleurs but knowing that you're unwilling to change your chain yourself tells me that you should put this in the hands of your shop mechanic.:)

Yes, I am just not very mechanically inclined. Cleaning my chain is about as technical as I can get, sadly. I will definitely be letting someone else do this now that I know it may be possible. I will have to consider my options.



Do you use the granny gear much? What type of terrain do you normally ride? A lot of flat with a scattering of hills?

When I get to longer climbs I use the granny gear a lot. The area around my house is a lot of rollers, but west Austin is steep and I enjoy riding there too.The problem is aspire to do mountains when I can get out to them and more in the Texas Hill Country but right now rides over 30 miles are killing me because the climbs are taking too much out of me. Last weekend we went out to the mountains and I was spent after the first climb and felt miserable the back 50 miles.

Trisk- It is a 10 speed. I was hoping not to spend the money on a new deraileur yet, but that may be my best bet.

[SadieKate]

but I know that terry is spec'ing their new Isis sport with a 10 spd 11 or 12/34 casetted by SRAM so it must also be possible for 10 spd.Huh, it's an IRD cassette, but it still needs a long cage mtb derailleur.

Talk to your LBS and compare the budgets for each. A 30 chainring x 34 cog gives you 23.82 gear inches just a tad lower than a 26 chainring x 28 cog which gives you 25.07.

The chain ring swap is probably cheaper. The risk is you may still want to swap the rear cassette to a 34 someday. A 26 x 34 combo would give you 20.65 which I adore for really, really steep grades but pay the sacrifice of having big jumps in the cassette spacing.

[Aggie_Ama]

Thanks, I will talk to the LBS about options and pricing. Hopefully they will be as helpful and not try to stick me with the "norm". I find the shops sometimes do not want to think outside of the box, it is a shame.

I just want to climb easier, I am not trying to win any honors just complete 60-100 hilly miles and enjoy it. I like climbing rides, I am just not that good of a climber!

[violette]

There is a thread in the open topic (Double chainring - yikes). I had this problem and it was solved with all the advice. Take a look at it. (I changed my cassettte to a Mtn bike and love it!)

[OakLeaf]

Does a smaller puppy gear (with no change in the middle and big rings) increase the risk of dropping the chain? Or make shifting rougher?

[SadieKate]

You never want the difference in ring size to get too large - I think it's pretty universal that you never should go larger than 14. 50-34 compact cranks have the greatest differential at 16 and they've had their challenges with quick shifting and dropped chains though this is improving over the years. You can always add a Deda Dogtooth on the seat tube near the bottom bracket. A lot of the pros run these because they don't ever want to chance a dropped chain, no never.

The larger the gap, the longer to shift up and the greater chance of dropping when shifting down. This doesn't matter whether it is a double or triple crank.

[violette]

I changed my cassette and Ultegra derailler to a Mtn bike cassette. The difference is amazing, but I lost my higher end derailler. The gear shifting is not as smooth as with the Ultegra, they changed my chain and it works like a charm. I would seriously consider changing if you do steep climbs. The LBS told me that some of his customers go to France to try the Tour the France route and they change their deraillers and cassettes, because the mountains are so steep, they could never do it with their regular gears and they have the high end bikes.

[aicabsolut]

I wouldn't put a 32 or 34t cog on the back with a little 30T chainring. A 1:1 ratio of gears (e.g., 30 and 30) means that you get one wheel revolution per revolution of your pedals. This definitely takes little force to accomplish, but you start having to spin like mad to keep enough momentum to keep yourself upright, particularly when gravity is working against you as well. I would most definitely NOT go greater than 1:1 (the 32 or 34 rear cog), because that will mean more than one revolution of the pedals to get a complete revolution of the rear wheel. You just won't be able to go fast enough. I'd advocate sticking with your normal 10sp derailleur and putting something like a 12-27 (shimao or sram) or 12-28 (sram) on the back. That will get you close to a 1:1 and still be pretty easy while allowing you to keep your momentum up such that you don't tip over. If you're running campy, then the current rear derailleur can accommodate a larger cassette (I forget if it's 29 or 32..i think 32), but I still wouldn't go past 1:1.

Basically, you're going to get to the point where you have to see if you can make things easy enough that you can manage to go a little farther without putting yourself in a situation where you will be pedaling your heart out and going at a pace that you could probably beat by walking.

[SadieKate]

Does a smaller puppy gear (with no change in the middle and big rings) increase the risk of dropping the chain? Or make shifting rougher?Oakleaf, can you clarify whether you were asking about the difference in chain rings sizes (number of teeth difference between each chain ring) or the difference in size between the small chainring and the largest cog. My answer had to do with the shifting performance pros/cons of the gap between chain ring sizes. It had nothing to do with cassettes.

aicabsolut, Northern CA has plenty of hills where a smaller chainring than the largest cog is appropriate. Tourers use small rings. Mtnbikers use a 22x34 all the time and manage to stay upright. It all depends on the demands of a specific person's terrain and her body.

From Peter White: "My most popular chainrings are 48 - 38 - 26 and 24 tooth replacements for Shimano's Ultegra and 105 triple cranks."

[Veronica]

I wouldn't put a 32 or 34t cog on the back with a little 30T chainring. A 1:1 ratio of gears (e.g., 30 and 30) means that you get one wheel revolution per revolution of your pedals. This definitely takes little force to accomplish, but you start having to spin like mad to keep enough momentum to keep yourself upright, particularly when gravity is working against you as well. I would most definitely NOT go greater than 1:1 (the 32 or 34 rear cog), because that will mean more than one revolution of the pedals to get a complete revolution of the rear wheel. You just won't be able to go fast enough. I'd advocate sticking with your normal 10sp derailleur and putting something like a 12-27 (shimao or sram) or 12-28 (sram) on the back. That will get you close to a 1:1 and still be pretty easy while allowing you to keep your momentum up such that you don't tip over. If you're running campy, then the current rear derailleur can accommodate a larger cassette (I forget if it's 29 or 32..i think 32), but I still wouldn't go past 1:1.


I have to disagree here. It all depends on where you ride.
When you ride stuff like this regularly, you need little gears. Or at least I do.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/DiabloScottsBikeBlog/Ry-0L7Nj27I/AAAAAAAAByM/urvcjiMdSjw/s800/Diablo%20Profile.jpg
Borrowed from DiabloScott

My smallest gear is a 33 - 34. Yes in that order. I ride stuff with long sections of upwards of 12% and some nearing 20%.

Here's what 17% looks like, the Summit Wall.

http://bp3.blogger.com/_hSZo5vjiPmQ/SFRYc9GOuqI/AAAAAAAAC5s/A_6-8FmEB2g/s1600-h/P6140128.JPG

I can climb this at about 4 mph, with my little gears, seated the entire way. I've also been able to stop in the middle of this and start again.

On some other climbs I've seen less than 3 mph on my speedometer. I did not fall over. :D

For the easier section, North Gate Rd to the Junction I average just under 8 miles an hour and I am not spinning madly. My average cadence is in the high 70s, low 80s. I'd probably go faster with taller gears, but my knees would hate me. Therefore I focus on spinning faster in my easier gears.

Does Aggie_Ama need such low gearing? I don't know. I haven't ridden in the Texas hill country. But low gearing does work and you don't fall over or spin out of control. :p

V.

[Melalvai]

I absolutely love my 22T chainring. It made a world of difference in my life. One mechanic argued for a larger ring in back, and the other told him he didn't know what he was talking about and that I needed the smaller one in front. I know who is the better bike mechanic so now I have a 22T up front!

[aicabsolut]

I know what 17% looks like. :) I think I hit around 3-3.5mph once on a 22.5% grade. I thought I was going to fall over. :o I would've liked a granny gear then, but I still think a bigger cog than ring is overkill on a road bike for most people, even those who climb mountains.

[SadieKate]

How old are you, aicabsolut? You obviously race. You look young and thin in that picture. You absolutely don't look like the average rider in power to weight ratio or fitness, and I haven't seen any posts from you about riding centuries or double centuries with loads and loads of long and steep climbing. Just trying to figure out what experience drives your comments.

You think Peter White's experience is wrong?

[OakLeaf]

I thought I was going to fall over. :o

The thing is, that it's nearly impossible to pedal both smoothly and with a ton of force, especially at a very low cadence. Even many pro riders on TV sway from side to side when they're climbing or sprinting. Touch wood, but so far I've never felt like I was going to fall over on a triple, and I've seen 3 mph plenty of times. I definitely felt like I was going to fall over when I demo'ed a bike with a compact at the retreat when I returned to road riding - and I definitely felt like I was going to fall over the following summer when I took my old race bike (low gear 42x21) up a serious hill around here. (Both times I unclipped and walked before I fell over involuntarily. :o) So I think falling over has as much to do with pedaling smoothness as it does with speed. That is, the wheels are producing a certain amount of gyroscopic force, which is fixed for any given speed and wheel; but the rider input is moving the bike side to side by a greater or lesser degree, working against those gyroscopic forces, depending on how smoothly they're pedaling. And that's where shorter gears can help.

If I understand it correctly, MTB wheels are producing a greater amount of gyroscopic force just because the rims and tires are heavier (or technically, they have greater mass)? If that's the case, that would explain the ability to go slower without falling over than one could on a road bike?

(And just for the record, I doubt one could ever walk faster than pedal. Sure we can all easily walk 4 mph on the flats, but up those hills that we're struggling to ride? I don't think so.)

For myself (meaning my present strength level, my terrain, and my lack of commitment to get much stronger in the near future), I'm only talking about putting a 12-27 in place of my current 12-25, or putting a 26T chainring in place of my current 30. Probably the former and almost certainly not both. With my 39T middle ring (which I like and don't want to change), going down to 26 in front would be a pretty big jump.

[Veronica]

Overkill?

I'll keep that in mind on my next double century with more than 13,000 feet of climbing.

Gearing is like saddles. What works for you does not work for everyone else. Labeling it in a derogatory manner makes people who may need that gearing less likely to get it.

V.

[maillotpois]

Ditto what V and SK have said.

I coach people to ride the Death Ride in the Sierras. 130 miles, 15,000 feet of climb at elevation (up to 9000 feet). Sure, not everyone needs a granny gear. But a lot do, and those who do don't spin like mad or fall over or anything. They just spin up the hill. (And save their knees).

If they were racing a course with one or two high gradient "walls", but rollers otherwise, and if they were all as young and skinny as my cyclocross racer boys, then they wouldn't need it. But for the the average endurance cyclist tacking a long endurance pace and length mountain climb a granny gear is anything but overkill.

[jobob]

I still think a bigger cog than ring is overkill on a road bike for most people, even those who climb mountains.

Golly gee, I must be hanging out with the wrong group of people then.

:rolleyes:

Oh and by the way, one of my bikes and both of my husband's bikes have a 26t front chainring and a 32t rear.

Every few months or so someone has to come on this list and pontificate about how "most people" don't need a triple chainring, don't need a small front ring, don't need a big cassette, and so on.

So please, do point out once again how lame my husband and I are. :p

[maillotpois]

So please, do point out once again how lame my husband and I are. :p



Oooh - wait - me first!

Let's see... you see phantom flamingos, eat too much cheese, you probably drive the speed limit, um, you are prone to carousing, ... what else? hmm. anyone?

[jobob]

And I drive a Subaru!

Most people don't need a Subaru.

[SadieKate]

Don't forget she will do anything for beer and ice cream. You don't even have to provide them together.

PS, I like the avatar. :p

[jobob]

Don't forget she will do anything for beer and ice cream. Oh, I have my limits. Sort of.

[maillotpois]

Hm. Seems to me that several of us drive subarus... :cool:

[Veronica]

Just 'cause I own one doesn't mean I drive it much. :p

Speaking of cheese... we went to the Cheese Factory to get some lunch last Friday after riding Bolinas Ridge. I like cheese!

V.

[maillotpois]

They also have great little mini cheesecakes there.

Just sayin'.

[Veronica]

Yeah, I saw those.

I've got six weeks until my HIM. I'd like to lose a pound or two before then. Grumbles...9 weeks of training and I haven't lost a single pound. :mad:

V.

[jobob]

Hm. Seems to me that several of us drive subarus... :cool: Like I said, I'm clearly hanging out with the wrong crowd. :D

[snapdragen]

Like I said, I'm clearly hanging out with the wrong crowd. :D

Harumph. I resemble that remark......:D

[aicabsolut]

Ok, first of all, I do not claim to be a great climber. If you read my last comment carefully, you will realize that I wish I had a much easier gear when facing a 22% grade after a month off the bike. I felt that I was about to topple because I couldn't go faster (because of the amount of force I had to apply). I was also too scared to put a foot down, because I slip all the time stopping on a downhill grade on my cleats. I also do not do super long endurance rides. My strengths are crit racing and time trials (not the hill climb kind). So I can sympathize with the ability to need a little extra help going up hills. I am not an endurance cyclist. When I used to run, I was never a distance runner. I am really impressed by those who can go for a couple hundred miles, because I am not built to do that. My training rides tend to be in the range of 40-70 miles with maybe a max of around 5000ft of climbing. Most of the terrain is rolling, but some areas have a general upward trend for maybe 30mins, and I will do hill repeats on hills about a mile long with an grades of around 8%-12%.

My comments were not meant to be derogatory. I wasn't trying to call anyone a weakling or lame or whatever because they may or may not have a big cassette and little front ring. Most of the offended have replied defending their gearing that is very near 1:1. My comments were directed towards the suggestions for comments that something like a 26/34 gear (rear/front) would help the OP. My comments were based on a combination of 2 things, mainly. 1) my experience training on gradients ranging from 6% to 15% regularly (over a variety of distances) and the occasional encounter of some steeper climbs I'd prefer not to revisit. I am also still fairly new to this, and I remember how hard it was to work up to longer rides with lots of climbing. 2) I have recently discussed climbing setups at length with more experienced people, because I have an extra frame laying around, and I'm trying to think about how to build it up. I was contemplating what cassettes I might put with a 34T ring. I was comparing that with some triples and with what I currently run. The most I heard was not to go even all that close to 1:1 and definitely not past it, because to use those gears, I'd have to pedal so much faster to maintain a reasonable speed. By reasonable, I mean something where I'd feel stable. Maybe it's part of not being a good climber, but I don't feel stable going 4mph uphill. I can go 6mph just fine.

Part of what made me unstable at 3+mph on the steep climb I referred to earlier was the force I put on the pedals. Part of it was the feeling that if I let up at all, gravity would instantly stop me because of my lack of momentum and down I'd go. What my friends and teammates told me about gearing made sense in light of all this. You don't want to have to work too hard at either a) spinning faster than you want to or b) putting out more power than (a hypothetical) you can sustain. It seems like with a road bike's light weight and the way it runs (vs. a mtn bike for example), you can avoid both by staying above 1:1 most of the time.

So, by overkill, I meant that the need to easily get some speed (and thus forward momentum) per pedal stroke would outweigh the need for a gear that would require such relatively light force to move. I also don't see where the OP said anything about wanting to do endurance riding and spend hours climbing mountains. She just wanted to make the hills (of whatever sort, she didn't say) she does easier so she can go longer than "a few miles." Clearly, my observation is based on a totally different demographic of cyclists.

[SadieKate]

The answers you were given were based on your terrain. Momentum is a huge factor on rolling hills and you can use a much higher gear to get over them. A 20 mile long grade like the coast California mtns or the Sierras requires you to grind up. I can easily ride at 3-4 miles an hour at a comfortable cadence because I've chosen the right gear, not too low, not too high (you have to be Goldilocks). Factor in the horrible potholes in many of those roads and that they are steepest at the top, and those extra low gears can be really important. And, a 30 min climb isn't all that long for some areas.

Your comments specifically referred to "most people" so you widened the net beyond the OP. That is why we responded as we did. The 1:1 ratio may be perfect for someone of your fitness in your terrain and maybe even riding in a pack. Spinning wildly is more about choosing the wrong gear at the moment than having the low gears. If the hill doesn't warrant a 26x34, don't use it. But if you don't have it, you can't use it when you need it. You may not need it but a lot of us do. And a lot of us simply have limits to the amount of force we can put on a pedal.

As far as learning to be comfortable at 4 mph, may I suggest slow races in a big gear? Last one over the line wins. These will really help you feel more stable at low speeds.

aicabsolute, road racers of your ilk (as in the types of races you do) need completely different gears than the average rider. Your discussions were focused on answers for you, your terrain in your corner of the universe. :)

[OakLeaf]

Sorry, when I'm turning 55 rpm going 5 mph over an 18% grade, I don't consider that "spinning wildly." I consider that "wishing I had another gear."

[jobob]

I've zoomed up the 16% or so grade of Pig Farm Hill at a whopping 2.6 mph and haven't tipped over yet. :cool:

[smilingcat]

Disclaimer first:

I'm not a sprinter. I'm not particularly strong on flats. But I do love to climb.

fun rides you can look up on the web:
Breathless in Agony (http://www.cyclingpros.com/onyx.htm), 114miler with 12,000 feet of climb Brandi did the ride this year.
ride around the bear (http://www.ocw.org/bear/bearinfo.asp) 100miler with about 10,000 feet of climb

death ride (not much need to be said)

climb the kaiser (http://www.fresnocycling.com/kaiser/2007/index.htm) people who do this poo poo the death ride at 150miles with 13,500feet of climb. Oh one more thing. They have 13 hour time limit...

and yes the Diablo challange, Mt Tam...

If you are a red polka dot jersey kind of rider, what aicabsolut said is true. However, most TE members are not, so it's NOT really applicable. Only thing I would say is, if the hill gets really steep, forget about your form.
If you need to mash gears, mash'em.
If you need to stand, do so.
And if you need a granny gear with smaller chainring than a cog, then do so.

with the exception of death ride, the other three are timed (unofficially-officially :confused: what? yes its timed) And your time is posted. It's not a race though... Now "to do well", you can't be using a granny gear with big cog in rear. If you have to use granny gears, you are not strong enough for these rides. Doesn't mean you can't finish, you just wont place.

case in point: Climb the Kaiser starts in town of Clovis, start time around 6:30AM. We get police escort out of town and they give us the right of way at the stop lights. Speed off the line is 24-28MPH. Lead pack of about 40 guys (mostly pros, cat1s & 2s) usually hit around 30MPH. I thought I was doing well at 24-25MPH avg. I was at the tail end of the riders last 10 or 20 riders. Its rare for me to be in such spot... We reach the foothill of Sierra Mountain range by 8:00AM and YOU HAVE to GET PAST the TOLL HOUSE GRADE by 10:30AM otherwise you will not finish. and so it goes.

This situation is very very different than what most TE riders are willing to do. It's whole another world. We need to take into account of who is asking the question, and who is answering the question.

And yes I will confess, from big creek rest stop to the next rest stop on the kaiser ride, my avg speed was around 5MPH with avg grade of 15%. We climbed over 3000 feet. Around 4 miles of riding.

Only right way for riding hill is "getting to the top without blowing up" and have fun on your way up. ;)

smilingcat

[OakLeaf]

Only right way for riding hill is "getting to the top without blowing up" and have fun on your way up. ;)

Hear, hear! Hear! Hear!

[Aggie_Ama]

Whoa my thread took on a life of it's own! Hopefully it will help others as well. I still haven't taken my Cannondale in, in fact the poor thing hasn't seen any miles since Fort Davis. That being said I think the Cali girls are more on the mark with what I am thinking. Spinning as long as possible, saving the knees (I have some issues with them) and long distances.

I am going to have to make a choice on what I want to do. Many of my rides locally do not require such gearing but I don't want to stay local. I sure as heck want to make it up the .5 mile, 17% grade suffer fest known as Jester Blvd. I probably won't go to anything drastic (just what my derailers will allow), since I am making it up most climbs but I haven't talked to the LBS yet.

I like climbing rides, I just wasn't born a mountain goat.

[SadieKate]

I am going to have to make a choice on what I want to do. You are a wise woman. :)

I fall in love with my little bitty gears all over again when I'm "trying" to ride at 10,000+ ft.

[aicabsolut]

The answers you were given were based on your terrain. Momentum is a huge factor on rolling hills and you can use a much higher gear to get over them. A 20 mile long grade like the coast California mtns or the Sierras requires you to grind up. I can easily ride at 3-4 miles an hour at a comfortable cadence because I've chosen the right gear, not too low, not too high (you have to be Goldilocks). Factor in the horrible potholes in many of those roads and that they are steepest at the top, and those extra low gears can be really important. And, a 30 min climb isn't all that long for some areas.

aicabsolute, road racers of your ilk (as in the types of races you do) need completely different gears than the average rider. Your discussions were focused on answers for you, your terrain in your corner of the universe. :)

One of the routes I routinely do has an upward trend for about 7 miles. It takes me about 25min. I am pretty much the only one I know who races on a compact crankset. My teammate with a triple on her WSD bike never touches her granny ring or the top half of her cassette when she's in the middle. For my "corner of the universe," I use easier gears than the average rider. I also was getting advice on gearing from good climbers. My conversation with them was about determining a rig that I could take with a friend to the Bay Area, for example, and survive a full day of riding. FWIW, racers would never race on anything close to a 1:1 gear ratio. They weren't advising me on how to race out in Cali, but what they thought was the lowest practical gear combo I (or anyone--in their opinion) ought to put on a climbing road bike. The only ultra-distance cyclist I know who still does those rides (she does things like rides out to and climbs Mt Etna on her bike) runs a standard crankset and something like an 11-25 in the back. She's a billy goat.

Based on Aggie's latest post, maybe the rest of you are more on point than I was. However, it wasn't totally clear from her original post what she was climbing exactly. I also feel like there's some huge war going on between those who use light gearing and have to make mountain bike component modifications and those of us who stick with more stock setups. Most of the time here, the latter group is being attacked by the former (who somehow feels as though they've been attacked first). You all take it too personally. Just because some of us advocate one approach doesn't mean that we're saying the rest of you don't deserve to be on road bikes. Good grief.

In addition, many of my comments (here and on violette's thread) take cost into account. That is something I consider strongly when making component changes. What's the easiest and cheapest thing to try out first? A cassette that will work with no other changes. Next? Depending on the group, either going for smaller rings or something like the large range cassette. Because of my place in the sport, I wouldn't consider a mtn bike cassette personally, but I could get pretty close if I ran Campy, so I still support cassette and derailleur changes. Lastly, the most cost would involve an entire group overhaul (from double to triple or from shimano to campy or whatever).

Since the OP doesn't do the monster climbs very often, I figured she'd want a change that I'd advocate for newer riders. Go with an inexpensive change that will let you hang on, and if you want to do that type of riding more often, then go with the next level of change if you don't just get better at it from practice. There's also the consideration that a good climbing rig might become kind of annoying for the more frequent rides on flatter ground, especially if you remove some of the harder end. Remember that part of the question here was if she was going to lose much high end for descending. That means she'd like to optimally keep her big ring and some high end on the cassette.

[lph]

Wow. I just read this thread and I'm a little baffled at the ruffled feathers. I saw lots of good advice, well documented and politely given, based of course on the experience of the person giving it. If I had trouble with a 1:1 ratio then I wouldn't recommend it either. As it is I haven't a clue what kind of ratio I ride but that's why I haven't been giving any advice either.

Please, gals, I think it's all good.

[jobob]

lph, since you feel the need to rehash this, I took issue with the "most people don't need" statement.

She was delivering a blanket pronouncement based on her own limited experience and her own particular set of circumstances, hardly a basis on which to determine what "most people" need.

But glad it didn't ruffle your feathers any.

[lph]

I hear you jobob, and I know it can be irritating when people make blanket statements. But in my opinion it was carefully and well put, and fodder for a good discussion, not inflammatory or condescending. From the point of view of a relative newbie to the cycling community: this looks like a "hot topic" I didn't know existed.

[Aggie_Ama]

Since others here ride a similar stock set up here is what I went with. I changed the 12-25 cassette to a 12-27 Shimano cassette. The LBS said Shimano doesn't recommend going to 12-28 probably just cause they don't make it but whatever. My goal was keep my Ultegra Rear Deraileur, giving me one more easy gear and keeping it cheap. I may end up looking into other options because I am pretty sure this won't be enough but I want to try it before dropping a lot of money. Right now I am only out $100 and have some more time to decide what I want.

Right now it only once a month or so that I get to enjoy these climbing quad busters, so it seemed silly to drop a lot of money on switching to a mountain set up. My budget was low right now because I am not completely ready to commit to changing so much.
My bike is now:
105 Front
Ultegra Rear
12-27 Ultegra Cassette

[OakLeaf]

Let us know how you like it. I'm strongly considering the same change to my bike.

[boy in a kilt]

I run a 30/40/50 12-27 combo. It started out as an experiment but after a while, I fell in love with it. A 17% climb will still suck, but you'll have a great combination of gears for almost everything else.