Does it qualify as mashing if...

[Mr. Bloom]

...you are climbing in granny gear?:eek: Or, is it simply spinning in a press?:rolleyes:

At the Horsey Hundred, Indysteel and I were wondering this on a tough climb yesterday (as we regularly thanked our creator for triples!)

[kelownagirl]

That's what I always wonder Mr. Silver. People keep telling me to shift down and spin up. Um, yeah, that's what I'm doing. Yeah, I know my cadence is only 50 rpm. Yeah, I know that technically, I'm mashing not spinning. Our steepest hill on our metric yesterday was 2km of 10-15%. Ugh.

[Tri Girl]

Oh, it all counts! :p Mashing, spinning, crying, screaming; whatever you call it, getting up some hills is just plain torture.
For what it's worth, I think "mashing" in granny gear is still mashing! I was cursing my compact double Sat. when we rode some killer hills. I was wishing I'd had my trusty triple.

[SouthernBelle]

There comes a point on some hills where you are out of gears and out of spin and all you can do is mash.

On the other hand, I think there is a technique to this. One which I have not mastered.

Last fall I was trying to crank up a long, steep, miserable hill. A girl came spinning past me. I don't think it was merely that she was stronger than me. I think she had increased her cadence early on and was able to maintain it longer. Perhaps a momentum thing. I have noticed if I try to establish a higher cadence before or early in a climb, I can maintain it longer.

Unfortunately I do not have a naturallly high cadence.

I would be interested to hear other takes on this.

[bmccasland]

There's this infamous hill, just before the lunch stop on the local MS Tour. Someone told me to gear down and spin, yeah, right. :rolleyes: How can you gear down and spin when you've run out of gears?

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Last fall I was trying to crank up a long, steep, miserable hill. A girl came spinning past me. I don't think it was merely that she was stronger than me. I think she had increased her cadence early on and was able to maintain it longer. Perhaps a momentum thing.

She had a couple lower gears than you most likely.

[silver]

Wait! you both have triples? No wonder you two maade the hills look so easy! ;):p

[OakLeaf]

+1 on increasing cadence to at least 100-105 (or 10 rpm over your natural cadence if it's already that high) just as the incline starts.

That said, I'm not near as strong as I used to be, and even though I already have a triple, I'm seriously considering a 12-27 cassette when my 12-25 is due for replacement :rolleyes:

[short cut sally]

I have a triple and all I can say is thank god for granny gear!!! I don't care if I mash, spin, mash some more, pray, contemplate vomiting, sweat or swear going up those hills..as long as I have enough in me to get up them, I consider that a good job!

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

...even though I already have a triple, I'm seriously considering a 12-27 cassette when my 12-25 is due for replacement :rolleyes:

Mine is a 12-34. :cool: Spin Dry SpeedQueen.
Then again, I do some harder climbs than Mr. Silver's Boltinghouse Horror. I need all the help I can get. ;)

[indysteel]

As Mr. Silver suggested, I do indeed love my triple. I used my middle ring for much of the Horsey, but it became very clear on Saturday that I needed my granny gear more and more as my quads got more and more fatigued. Same thing with Sunday. There were a few hills where I announced to Mr. Silver that I was going to spin up them in an effort to save my quads from further misery. Worked like a charm.

And then there are those hills that I need the granny gear for no matter how fresh my legs otherwise are. :p

[Flybye]

Shiraz and others tried to kill me on Friday with 20 miles of hills. I have a double and was cursing and mashing up till the summit. Then I was smiling and praising on the coast down. It was a 34 mile ride all told, but the climb was LONG - I survived with a big old smile at the end.

Mr. - as far as I am concerned, it is like running - even tho' you may be jogging at 4.crawl miles per hour, they still call you a runner. You, my friend, are indeed a masher.

As an aside, why in the world would we have a granny gear on a bike? I think that applies only to a car. Historians? I'd google the history of the term right now, but I need to get to work if I want a paycheck. Pretty sure that there aren't many grannys mashing their way up the summit :eek:.

[Geonz]

When I can grab a cadence and keep my stroke powerful full circle, I can get up hills well. If I lose that I end up shoving the pedals down as hard as I can and hoping I get to the top. Fortunately most of the hills I do are gradual.

[Mr. Bloom]

Wait! you both have triples? No wonder you two maade the hills look so easy! ;):p

Yea, but who has the Silver Madone????:cool: :eek:


I don't care if I mash, spin, mash some more, pray, contemplate vomiting, sweat or swear going up those hills..

I don't sweat, but this weekend, I did all the others. I didn't sing American Pie though...didn't want Silver or Indysteel to do more than contemplate vomiting...



Then again, I do some harder climbs than Mr. Silver's Boltinghouse Horror. I need all the help I can get. ;)
Silver, we're going to visit Lisa! Lisa, I had no idea that your part of the world was like that!


You, my friend, are indeed a masher.
Yep, my name is Mr. Silver and I'm a masher. While I couldn't find the origin of "granny gear", BleekerSt_Girl was quick to point out last year that there is another origin to "masher" though:eek:

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Silver, we're going to visit Lisa! Lisa, I had no idea that your part of the world was like that!

Not too many flats around here. Lots of beautiful rolling hills everywhere, and some good hard climbs. Maybe that's 'one' of the reasons my average speed is so low.... :rolleyes:

[Crankin]

I've done plenty of mashing in my granniest of granny gears. Some of the places I ride are similar to the area around Lisa's home. I *try* to spin up in the beginning of a long or hard climb, but I could never be spinning at 100 rpm! My usual cadence is around 80-85 and I am sure I get down to 50 or 60 on some of the 15-20% climbs around here. I just did one of those on Sunday and on the hardest part, I was mashing and praying I would make it. Like Lisa, my average goes way down on those kind of rides and I don't care. When I saw your average, Mr. Silver, on a century with 8500 feet of climbing, I was astounded. I can make it up those climbs, but I am simply turning the pedals over and not thinking about anything except getting up the hill. Trying to go fast on steep grades just isn't going to happen for me. I can and have improved my climbing speed on shorter or less steep climbs, but at a certain point, I can't do more. I just don't have the strength.
At one point, I almost got a compact double. Shortly after that, I got my new bike and ended up changing out the 11-25 to an 11-27. I am really glad I have a triple...

[Mr. Bloom]

My usual cadence is around 80-85 and I am sure I get down to 50 or 60 on some of the 15-20% climbs around here.

My average cadence on the flats was 68 last year.

While my cadence counter isn't working right now, I still find that if I spin too much, my knees really, really hurt. By guess is that my average cadence on the flats is still at best in the low 80's

[Melalvai]

She had a couple lower gears than you most likely.
Or even just a smaller granny gear. I was struggling up a hill and another guy chatting away at me because he'd just gotten his 12-tooth granny hill (for hauling a loaded trailer which he did not have at that time). I don't have a 12-tooth yet, but I did replace my chainrings recently and specifically requested mountain-bike-type so that my smallest chainring would be smaller than it had been. I don't care about the biggest one, I can always count on gravity to get me down a hill. I sure love that small one.

[bluebug32]

Not too many flats around here. Lots of beautiful rolling hills everywhere, and some good hard climbs. Maybe that's 'one' of the reasons my average speed is so low.... :rolleyes:

That's my excuse too! I hit a 20%+ grade the other day and briefly considered moving closer to my family in Indiana and Illinois.

I ride with a guy who insists that the only way to get stronger is to push up these monster hills in his big ring. He looks like he's about to topple over and is usually slumped over his bars by the top. I love spinning right past him...

[SouthernBelle]

I hate it when it looks like I'll have a good average speed and the hills mess it up.

Mr. S, do you need a new battery in your cadence thingie?

[kelownagirl]

My average cadence on the flats was 68 last year.

While my cadence counter isn't working right now, I still find that if I spin too much, my knees really, really hurt. By guess is that my average cadence on the flats is still at best in the low 80's

My knees hurt if my cadence is too low! My avg cadence is about between 85-90, and that's with hills, without hills it's around 95. Just call me Lance. (well, only as far as cadence goes, lol)

[smilingcat]

Back to the original question. is it mashing if you are in your lowest gear? No.
and does cadence have anything do with mashing again? No.

Only time I would consider "mashing" is if you are only pushing down the pedals, forgetting to push forward at the top, sweeping your foot backward at the bottom and pulling up on the back side, then ITS mashing.

Your cadence could drop to 30 but if you are putting energy into the pedal most of the way around then its not mashing.

On a steep hill, I will stand up and allow my body weight to push the pedal down; but, I do use my other leg to pull up on the pedal. I skip the pushing and sweeping when I stand up so my muscles can take a short 10-20 second break. sometimes bit longer. And sometimes I do add the pushing part. My lowest gear combo is ony 39/26?? on the road bike (tt is 39/21 or 23) so when the hill gets to be 12% or more I have to stand.

Standing does use up more of your energy but sometimes its necessary to recover your regular pedalling muscles. or if the hills are too steep for your gearing.

not to fear, you are pedalling just fine.
Smilingcat

[RoadRaven]

Well said, Mistress Cat

It can absolutely "feel" like mashing when you are trying to get up the hill, but in your lowest gears, its not.

I mash in races - particulalrly in time trials, I am trying to teach myself to spin cause it should be better on my body, but I mash cause at the moment thats faster - big chain ring, big gears, powering along at a relatively slow cadence.

I also mash in races with hills, where I try to get over a hill climb without dropping into low gears so I can increase speed rapidly as I crest and start to descend. Its a grind, but it works.

Headwinds always make me feel like I am mashing - sometimes I am, sometimes I am just trying to go forward in my lowest gear :p

[Mr. Bloom]

Your cadence could drop to 30 but if you are putting energy into the pedal most of the way around then its not mashing.


Hmmm...I never ever understood it that way...so, I guess that makes me feel better.

Ironically, my knees hurt at a higher cadence, so I've felt "strange" for feeling like I needed a slower cadence...but also consider that my legs are pretty strong which I think favors slower cadence IMHO

[RoadRaven]

Ironically, my knees hurt at a higher cadence,

My partner was told by many his cadence was too slow - so he tried real hard to "spin" more - but he just ends up making his knees hurt. So has a slower cadence than many of those he races against, but thats ok - he won a national title and a gold medal last year and aims to defend it this year with the cadence he uses.

Many will say to use a high cadence, and logically it is the right thing to do - particularly if you want to increase speed... but ultimately, you need to find the cadence and style that fits you best.

[Mr. Bloom]

but thats ok - he won a national title and a gold medal last year and aims to defend it this year with the cadence he uses

FREE at LAST - I'm FREE at LAST. Free from the fear of slow cadence!

Seriously: I've struggled with the concern that in my comfort with slower cadence that i'm inflicting long term damage. I suppose that it is still possible for any one of a number or reasons, but not something I should be overly concerned of.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

FREE at LAST - I'm FREE at LAST. Free from the fear of slow cadence!

Seriously: I've struggled with the concern that in my comfort with slower cadence that i'm inflicting long term damage. I suppose that it is still possible for any one of a number or reasons, but not something I should be overly concerned of.

Slower cadence does not necessarily mean mashing. Two different things.

[Mr. SR500]

I'm a classic masher, but as I ride more, and get faster, my cadence picks up. I'll still average 70 - 74 rpm for a ride, regardless of length, but I try harder to spin up hills, and in a fast paceline I might spin as high as 105 - 110. I shoot for 90 rpm, but occasionally spin faster, partly because I run a compact.

[OakLeaf]

Well, average counts any time you're coasting, too - downhills, when you're just hanging out talking with someone, softpedaling in a paceline. I just got a computer that logs average cadence last week, so I don't have a lot of data, but I do know that on the flats I'm almost always between 95 and 105 unless there's a stiff headwind and I'm either solo or taking long pulls. But the last four rides I've done in hill country my average has been 81-89.

[SouthernBelle]

I thought about this thread this morning after I finished off my nemesis hill. It's the one with a 20+% grade.

Before I finished I was mashing, stomping, whatever I could do to get to the top.

[Mr. Bloom]

I thought about this thread this morning after I finished off my nemesis hill. It's the one with a 20+% grade.

Before I finished I was mashing, stomping, whatever I could do to get to the top.

Well, I didn't see the word "walking" in there...so I stand in awe!

[SouthernBelle]

Well, I didn't see the word "walking" in there...so I stand in awe!

No walking! Just mashing, stomping, gasping, and cussing when I could get a breathe to do so. :p

[smilingcat]

Sometimes you shouldn't get so caught up in the form. Just getting the job done merits an award. climbing a 20% grade hill is one of them. Don't care if you mash, stomp spin... such climbs are like HC catagory beyond cat 1 climb.

congrats.

[RoadRaven]

Sometimes you shouldn't get so caught up in the form.

Exactamundo!
You need to work out what works for you and do that.
Lots of experts say do it this way or that - at the same time there are trends in what we should try to do.

High cadence is a good example of a current trendy goal/way to ride - sparked in part by the world watching Lance Armstrong spin up mountains at a relentlessly high cadence.

Now unless you have a big heart and an unusually high VO2max like Lance does, its unlikely you will ever climb in that way.

Do what works for you, improve on that, and don't do radical changes unless you have good reason