poor sleep with lots of workouts?

[bounceswoosh]

Just wondering if anyone else has this --

This doesn't happen for any single workout, but if I'm working out a lot more than I usually do, I feel like I'm burning up (normally I'm freezing all the time), and I sleep poorly, tossing and turning all night. This happened again last night.

My workouts for the last week --

Thursday: rock climbing at the gym
Saturday: 30 mile road ride (new to road riding) and indoor soccer
Sunday: indoor soccer
Tuesday: 10-ish miles of mountain biking with plenty of climbing

That's not even a full week, and there are two days of recovery there, so why am I so beat? (Granted, that is a huge boost in how much I've been doing ... more common in the last few months would be one or two rock climbing sessions and one or two games of soccer).

I vaguely remember that poor sleep might be a sign of overtraining. Another part of me thinks, yay, my metabolism is working overtime burning off the fat, go me!

I don't think I'm dehydrated -- I had to get up to go pee an uncountable number of times last night, and this morning my scale still showed the high end of my normal range of water content.

[Veronica]

I always sleep poorly the night after a long ride. Taking a few Advil before bed usually helps me.

V.

[bounceswoosh]

I always sleep poorly the night after a long ride. Taking a few Advil before bed usually helps me.

V.

Thanks. Unfortunately I can't do NSAIDs (doctor's orders), so no Advil or Aleve for me =/

[mimitabby]

if you are exercising in the evening, it will disrupt your sleep.

Also, i don't know how old you are, but as you get older, "good sleep" becomes harder and harder to attain. especially if you're going through menopause.

about really hard workouts; it has affected my sleep too.

[Veronica]

If it's aches and pains keeping you awake, how about topical medications like Ben Gay?

V.

[redrhodie]

Reading "rock climbing" brought back memories of how I couldn't sleep when I used to climb. I think it was the adrenaline that that sport produced.

In fact, all of your sports are pretty intense! Maybe try some yoga or Pilates to calm things down a bit?

[bounceswoosh]

I'm 30; it's not aches and pains, just feeling super overheated and restless.

I do a "stretching" class based on yoga at work, but I have to be careful with real yoga -- all that downward dog does bad things to my wrist. I could attend the class at the climbing gym. I do love shivasina (sp?) But I adore any activity that forces me to be 100% in the moment, like climbing and mountain biking. I'm "in my head" too much, and I need to counterbalance that tendency with activities that require absolute concentration.

I usually climb over lunch, and I don't think it really keeps me up ... but maybe ... I think it's more stuff like biking, endurance stuff, that causes the overnight overheating and restlessness.

[Tokie]

Bouceswoosh - could it be when you are eating to fuel your exercise? If I eat too many carbs at dinner, I will be sweating like crazy when I try to get to sleep, and wide awake. I can pack in those carbs just fine most all day long, but stuff like pasta,alcohol or bagels in the evening are certain to cause a sleepless night. Don't discount Tylenol if you can't take NSAIDs Or the delightful combo of benadryl and tylenol.) Take it 30 minutes before you are going to lay down and try to sleep. Good luck - or should I say sweet dreams? Tokie

[TahoeDirtGirl]

I don't know you that well (aren't you LUCKY!) but it could be overtraining. Sleeplessness is one symptom but usually you feel really crappy.

You had a day where you did soccer and a ride. I would do indoor soccer followed by a rest day. Soccer is pretty demanding. And that was just half of your week! You said you had recovery days, is that a rest day or recovery day?

I wish I could play soccer. I'm too slow. Love guys with soccer legs. MMMMMMMM...

okay where was I?

As for the hot stuff at night I get that at the peak of season or after a really hard mtb ride. There are alot of reasons you get it, one of which is the inability of your body to clear lactic acid from your muscles effectively but you would get leg cramps. It's hard to pinpoint it by just the sleeplessness. I know I hit times like that and it was the start of overtraining but I wasn't getting any rest days. Everyone is different!

Goggle overtraining when you get a chance, it will give you the symptoms.

[Flybye]

I don't know you that well (aren't you LUCKY!) but it could be overtraining. Sleeplessness is one symptom but usually you feel really crappy.

You had a day where you did soccer and a ride. I would do indoor soccer followed by a rest day. Soccer is pretty demanding. And that was just half of your week! You said you had recovery days, is that a rest day or recovery day?

I wish I could play soccer. I'm too slow. Love guys with soccer legs. MMMMMMMM...

okay where was I?

As for the hot stuff at night I get that at the peak of season or after a really hard mtb ride. There are alot of reasons you get it, one of which is the inability of your body to clear lactic acid from your muscles effectively but you would get leg cramps. It's hard to pinpoint it by just the sleeplessness. I know I hit times like that and it was the start of overtraining but I wasn't getting any rest days. Everyone is different!

Goggle overtraining when you get a chance, it will give you the symptoms.

You beat me to it - I was thinking overtraining, too. I get really hot at night when I work out too. You *might* be able to fry an egg on my leg around 2AM. Benadryl might work if you can't take nsaids.

[aicabsolut]

Do you know your normal resting HR? Take your HR first thing in the morning before getting out of bed. If it's significantly higher than normal, that's the best indicator of overtraining.

[sundial]

Have you overtrained? :(

I know I've overtrained when I have sleep pattern disturbance, elevated heart rate even during rest, poor appetite and moodiness. My legs will feel heavy, with a deep fatigue, and just grocery shopping wears me out.

My last bout of overtraining hit me in March. I had been riding all year, even through the first weeks of February. I was on my mtb doing easy trails and it snuck up on me anyway. I had to lay off for a whole month. :mad: :(

[VeloVT]

This is a short term solution, not a long term solution, but Ambien CR is amazing. It will knock me out cold for exactly 8 hours even if I've had a super-stressful day, caffeine late at night, or exercise in the evening. My boyfriend shared his with me during finals (yes, I know this is a no-no) and it was a life-saver. It's just about the worst feeling in the world when you go to bed at 1am, have an exam at 3PM the next day and need to study more before you take it, and somehow even though you only had five hours of sleep the night before you still can't get to sleep...

As I get older I find more things affect my sleep -- even small amounts of alcohol will wake me up after a few hours of sleep and make it hard to get back to sleep. Caffeine after 4pm... stress... and yes, either exercise late in the day or just a very large amount of exercise can make it more difficult for me to sleep (and this is not overtraining in my case, sadly).

Over-the-counter sleeping aids can help too (such as Tylenol PM). Again, not a long term solution, but if you've GOT to get back to sleep and you just can't, it can help.

Good luck. Sleep is very, very important.

[bounceswoosh]

Thanks to everyone for your great ideas.

I was definitely wondering about overtraining, but aside from restlessness at night, I have not been feeling generally tired / sick. But it's possible that I need to back off just a smidge to keep myself from going that route.

aicabsolut: good tip about heart rate. Mine is typically around the mid 50s in the middle of the day. I can check in the morning.

Thanks for all the ideas on sleep aids. I have to be careful with those; they make me feel icky, don't seem to work for very long, and sometimes even give me nightmares! So I'm probably not going to go that route.

Tokie -- that's a really interesting idea about carbs. Since going gluten-free, I don't eat nearly as much pasta etc, but I think the night before I started this thread, I had pasta made from rice flour as a "main dish." I'll have to keep an eye on that, see if I notice a connection.

[sundial]

Bounces, hope you get a good night's sleep. I noticed that it's a full moon this week. Some people have problems sleeping during a full moon.

[Dogmama]

Overtraining can be caused by what you've described (a sudden increase in high end activity.) How long have you kept that schedule? A week or two shouldn't matter.

It could just be "one of those things" that passes. Hormones are always a nice bucket to put blame in!

BTW, Ambien keeps me awake. Go figure. I hate taking meds anyway.

[kfergos]

Reading this thread makes me wonder (worry) that I'm also overtraining, and I'd love some input from people who've actually done serious training. Here's my story:

Since March I've been training to do two long rides: The Cape Cod Getaway (http://bikemam.nationalmssociety.org/site/TR/Bike/MAMBikeEvents?fr_id=8460&pg=entry) (75 Sat/75 Sun, June 28-29), followed two weeks later by the STP (http://www.cascade.org/EandR/stp/index.cfm) (100/100, July 12-13). I have been following the STP suggested mileage (http://www.cascade.org/EandR/stp/stp_mileage.cfm) for my weekend rides and usually the mid-week rides. However, I have also continued doing my 13-mile each way commute by bike during the week, too*. I take Fridays off to rest before the long rides. My weekly mileage for the last few weeks has been in the 200+ range: Usually 100 or 120 miles during the week, plus Sat/Sun mileage, which can be a lot (last weekend: 143 miles).

This seemed to work OK when the training rides were 50 miles/day or less. However, on the 70/70 training rides, I find I'm really worn out during my normal commutes (gee, why could that be? :p). I also have noticed I seem to sleep worse after the long rides. More troubling, I barely had a period last month (I'm usually light anyway, but this was next to nothing) and this month looks like it'll be the same way, if I have one at all. My gut feeling is that I'm overtraining, and that I need to back off on my mileage. I'm reluctant to sacrifice my commutes -- I think of myself as a commuter first and foremost, and I do recreational riding on the side :rolleyes:, but also I don't know what kind of long-distance mileage to maintain to be ready for my two longer rides later this summer.

Yes, I know I should probably consult a medical professional, but right now I don't have one and can't easily get one. Just gonna do my best on my own, I guess...

*This is complicated: Monday, both ways; Tuesday, one way; Wednesday, both ways or one way + STP-suggested mid-week mileage; Thursday, both ways.

[RoadRaven]

Overtraining, evening exercise, and the full moon - definately all good possible answers to the "why". Exercise elevates your heart rate, and after a particularly demanding workout may stay slightly elevated the next day also.

Remember exercise does "fire up" your metabolism, however, I would not lessen the exercise quantity permanantly, perhaps have a lighter week every three week. If this amount of exercise is new to you, your body has to make changes and accomodate the new demands. However, it does adapt.

Example - in 2005 (my first full year of cycling), 200km on the road per month was a big month. This year I have averaged 544km per month (for the first 4 months) on the road (not including spin and mountain bike).
My partner began in 2004 with 200-300km weeks on the road. At the moment he is base-training and putting in 600-800km weeks.

My point? I could not have handled the riding I am doing now in 2005 - I would definately have been overtrained.

KFergos... if you are coping just fine and just tired, I would not worry too much. With those distances, you should feel tired. As for amhenorheah (how DO you spell that word???) - many female athletes sacrifice their period. There may be nutrients you need to ensure you are taking, so do consult with a doctor. But based on what I know (which, I admit, is limited) I wouldn't be too concerned - particularly if the doctor isnt.

[Dogmama]

You might be on your way to overtraining. The problem is that once overtrained, it takes awhile for your body to bounce back. You need to sleep. I hope your nutrition is good. And your life is stress free, right? :p

[bounceswoosh]

A co-worker just pointed me to this article:

http://www.sparkpeople.com/resource/fitness_articles.asp?id=508

Nothing shocking, I guess, but it's good to know that one or two days of rest when you start to experience symptoms isn't enough ... that it's okay to take it easy on days when you're feeling less than 100% ... that they recommend at least (!) two days of rest a week. It makes me feel less like a slacker that in the last seven days, the only thing I've done is played 1.5 indoor soccer games ... I'm not slacking, I'm recovering from overtraining!

[Dogmama]

I always vote for active rest. So many of us go from 60 mph to zero & then back to 60 mph. Active rest does many things for us.

1. Clears the mind & lets us enjoy the moments of exercise. A walk in the park, listening to the birds can be therapeutic.

2. Keeps the blood moving. Research shows that delayed muscle soreness responds best to active rest rather than no exercise at all. The blood helps move the lactate out & healing properties in.

3. Alleviates any guilt about not working out.

4. Lets us explore other exercise modalities. Yoga, for example, is a wonderful addition to cycling, running and weight lifting.

That's my $.03 (inflation, you know.)