Puppy: pros and cons

[maillotpois]

I was going to take the leash thread I started on a tangent, but decided to start a new...... as of last week, we are CONSIDERING adopting a puppy!! I haven't had a puppy in about 18 years. I think I may have blocked out what raising a puppy is like. (I do recall losing a $200 pair of Bally patent/suede pumps to Meg's chewing. :D )

This puppy is a 2 - 3 month old Guide dog "career change" yellow lab I saw when going to pick up our current dog Russo from a medical appointment at GDB (Guide Dogs for the Blind - Russo is a stud for them) last week. He is so darling. The guy who is fostering him and the woman at GDB say he is the best puppy they have ever had.

I feel like we are leaving Em alone so much (Saturdays) for our team training rides, and this experience we had with dogs attacking Russo has convinced me she cannot walk Russo alone - it is just not safe for either of them. (Intact male dogs on a leash are a target for off leash dogs.) So I envision her taking this new puppy for walks, being the one taking him to obedience school, etc. She's 12, responsible, good, wants to be a vet, is beginning an internship at the SF Zoo. I think it would be a good experience. I also feel like the coming teen years are going to be so tough and having something that she is so responsible for would be good. Plus, Russo is 8 - god forbid anything happens to him, but I have to be realistic.

The realities I probably need to think more about: crates, housebreaking (they say he is perfectly crate trained already. I didn't use a crate with Meg. I don't even know what that means. :confused::confused::confused:), chewing, waking us up at night, having to figure out how to deal with him on the days I am not working at home (possibly family can let him out of the crate, maybe I can bring him with me, maybe a dog walker can come). I know he's only got 4 - 5 months before he can be out in the yard and none of the logistical stuff will be as difficult. (I cannot put puppy out with Russo unsupervised til puppy is tutored - I mean neutered.)

Anyone want to talk me out of it? I talk to the woman at GDB tomorrow.

[crazybikinchic]

My question is why is he a "career change" and why is the foster parent no longer fostering if he is such a good puppy?

[maillotpois]

Oh it's just GDB terminology.

Career change are dogs who for various reasons are not becoming guides. This puppy had an operation, but is now fine. Career change covers a wide variety of things, and they're pretty restrictive on which dogs are actually selected as guides. Some 30+% of all their puppies career change out.

Fostering is a temporary housing for a dog waiting for adoption - to get the puppy out of the kennel and into a real home while it is waiting for placement. The foster will continue to happily foster him til he is placed.

These are not negative things about the pup.

[Veronica]

If Em is up for the responsibility, I say go for it. He will be her dog, which is kind of cool.

V.

[maillotpois]

She is up for it - and that was exactly what I was thinking. Her dog. I don't dare tell her til it is a done deal. There's a pretty extensive interview process, and they have to observe Russo and the puppy together.

I got Mike over the hurdle. :D I see that as the biggest step.

[SuperRunt]

I agree with Veronica. Can you sit down with your daughter and kind of make it her choice? She's obviously very interested in animals... And if you're worried about the same attack problem happening with the new dog, maybe you could have him fixed?

I just scrolled back up to write in a little warning here. I'm about to go off on a rant about how awesome it is to work with dogs. This might be something you already know, or have NO interest in, but here it goes :eek: :
I have two dogs myself, that were both rescued. We had one for 5 years before we got the other one. They were pretty "screwed up", from what had happened to them before they were rescued, and especially the last one required a lot of training work (in addition to my home cooked doggie psychotherapy :D).

The reason I'm bringing this up, is that I just want to share how very rewarding the process of training has been. Since this puppy is a "clean slate", he would probably really fun for your daughter to train! I really can't say enough about the bond you create with a dog doing this.

I have done positive only training (kind of a must with abused dogs...) and used a clicker. We have a loose knit training community where I live. The "leader" is a wonderful woman trained in positive training. Your daughter might love something like this!

Ok, that's the end of my rant. :)

[emily_in_nc]

My DH and I just got a Boston Terrier puppy, Paisley, around Easter. We adore her, but it's been a major lifestyle change as well! For the first 2 weeks, we walked around in a daze of sleepiness, being overwhelmed, and wondering "what have we done?" She only woke us up in the night to go out in the first week (age 7-8 weeks), so that ended very quickly and will not be something you'd likely have to deal with. We don't have children, and we hadn't had a puppy for 16 years (we were a wee bit younger then :rolleyes:), so the biggest adjustment has been just having to make sure that someone is watching her at all times, unless she's sleeping in her crate. Puppies can get into trouble in an instant, and so we trade off playing with her, keeping an eye on her, and just generally being the "responsible" one. Our time is no longer our own, and that takes some getting used to!

We've gotten a lot less done since she came home with us. Doing projects, gardening, etc. with her around is nearly impossible unless she's napping. Computer time has been cut way back to spend time with her (she's napping now). She chews *everything*, so having tons of toys around to stick in her mouth and distract her with, and not leaving things around that we don't want her to chew, has been a must.

Still, we wouldn't trade it -- she's a delight, nearly always amusing, even though she can be frustrating at times. But our lifestyle is much better than many folks have for a puppy -- my DH is retired so spends loads of time with her, we have a fenced area for her, and hiking trails in the woods on our 11-acre property, which minimizes some of the challenges. Only you can weigh the decision for you. We definitely had our moments of remorse, but those were quickly squelched as she stole our hearts.

Paisley turned 13 weeks yesterday, and while she's not *perfect* in her training, she knows "sit", "stay", "come", and "down" already; hasn't had an accident in the house in awhile (and only one in her crate ever), and she's getting better all the time on the leash. If you do decide to go for it, I highly recommend the book Mother Knows Best: The Natural Way to Train Your Dog by Carol Benjamin. It has helped us immensely.

Let us know what you do!

Emily

[maillotpois]

Thanks for the good responses!

We are definitely up for training. I went through very serious obedience training with my last puppy. Russo came to us fully trained, but Em is constantly trying to train her grandparents' incorrigible dogs (they are incorrigible in a good sense. Loving, but they get no reinforcement from the people they live with :rolleyes: ) I see the Marin humane Society will take handlers over 12 in their classes, so that is good.

Emily - I am not even sure what crate training entails. Do they stay in there at night? During the day sometimes? (I used a tie down with my puppy. I don't think "crate training" had been invented then.)

[VeloVT]

Pros:
1. Snuggly
2. Wiggly
3. Kissy
4. Cuddly
5. Warm
6. Loyal
7. Instinctively know when you are upset
8. Smart, cute & funny
9. Will bark at intruders
10. Soft bellies, noses and ears. Tendency to fall asleep with all four legs pointing straight up.

Cons:
1. Get hungry, need to be walked, and need attention regardless of your work schedule or social life.
2. Like kids, will develop bad habits if you let them.

[Blueberry]

MP - Essentially, dogs are in the crate when 1) you're sleeping 2) you're not home or 3) you can't watch them. It sounds cruel, but we've done it with 4 dogs, and have had really good results. Our golden is now crate free - at 3 (and has been for about 6 months). For the last few months of his crate, he'd head for the crate when he got sleepy (now he gets under my edge of the bed:rolleyes:). Helps immensely with house training (dogs won't go in their crate b/c they see it as their den), and keeps pup out of trouble.

CA

[nic840]

I think its an ideal situation. It sounds like your daughter is up for the responsibility. I think it would be great for her to have her "own" dog. We have a 9 year old lab and got a new yellow lab pup in October. He is now 9 months and it has been excellent. Oscar (old man) has really put Wally in his place and showed him the ropes.

I do warn you the first 3 months were wicked...with a capital "W." Its like having a toddler around. You are on watch at all times! Now...6 months later he is great. He still chews and does some puppy stuff but he has a good foundation of training and building on it every day. I forgot how much excercise a young dog needs. My old man doesn't need as much now but the pup has to get a good run/walk in everyday.

The crate is excellent. My pup will put himself to bed at night when he gets tired because he knows its his "safe" spot. I don't let the kids play in/with his crate so he knows its his den. The only time he is in it now is at night when we sleep and when he needs to be contained (very rarely). He travels in it because its safer and keeps my car somewhat cleaner. When he was a little pup he was in there when we couldn't watch him....going out, shower, etc... Now I have gates set up keeping him in the kitchen and family room...rarely close them now because he knows his boundaries and doesn't come in unless invited.

If your daughter is interested she should look into the Delta Society for pet therapy certification. If he was bred as a guide dog prospect he would be a good candidate because of the temperment. It would also be excellent for your daughter because you work together as a team. She has to learn to be a good handler and would gain confidence while helping others. Oscar was certified at 3 and we have visited everything from hospitals to high schools.

Overall go for it! I hope you get approved. I will keep my fingers crossed for you. I love having an active pup in the house...he definitely keeps things interesting! Good Luck and let me know if you have any questions regarding the crate stuff.

[nic840]

Oh I love when they fall asleep with all four legs in the air! Love it!! Here is another reason....

[maillotpois]

OMG Nic - that is exactly what our dogs would look like! Russo is black tinged with gray, just like your older dog. Oh that just pushed me over the edge. I have to show that photo to DH.

CA and Nic thank you SO much for the helpful tips re the crate. Good to know - especially the not letting the kid play in/around it.

[mimitabby]

crate training is the next best thing to sliced bread when it comes to dogs. You always have a safe place for the dog, too, and it's THEIRS.

[emily_in_nc]

Just to add to the crate training info...our first Boston Terrier, Pepper, we started with the crate at puppyhood, and she did wonderfully with it. As an adult, she'd go in it voluntarily when she needed "alone" time or when she was ill. And we'd put her in it if we happened to have a situation (like a toddler visiting) that we needed to restrain her. With few exceptions like those, after she was housetrained, she only went in the crate to sleep at night. DH did not want a dog or dogs in our bed, and I ended up being so glad he was a stickler about that as we only have a queen-sized bed, and this gives us a lot more room and peace (Boston Terriers snore!)

If you start your dog with the crate when s/he is a pup, they really come to enjoy being in their crate and see it as a place of refuge. Pepper was so good she'd stay in there, once housetrained, in the morning until we got up, even if it was 8 am or later (on weekends) without making a peep. Paisley stays in until 7 am now already (I haven't tried to push the envelope yet) so long as we let her out one last time at 11pm, and doesn't have accidents. She's not crazy about going in it during the day, but when we do have to put her in there for a short while when we can't watch her, she will settle down after some initial whining/yipping.

Emily

[crazybikinchic]

I kind of thought that your decision was already made to begin with. We crate trained our dog. All the above comments are true. The dogs love their crates.

Congrats on the new puppy!!

[maillotpois]

I kind of thought that your decision was already made to begin with.


Insightful.... :cool:

ETA: The decision on crate training vs. not crate training HAS been made. This seemed to imply that the decision to take the dog VS not to take the dog had also been made. Perhaps it has.

[sundial]

...... as of last week, we are CONSIDERING adopting a puppy!! I haven't had a puppy in about 18 years. I think I may have blocked out what raising a puppy is like.
:D

Spring seems to be the perfect season to bring a puppy on board. :)

It sounds like this puppy has very good temperament and hopefully good health as well. That is a big consideration when choosing a puppy in my opinion. Puppies from sound and healthy parents= lower vet bills and better socialization, usually. So you are off to a good start if you choose to adopt him.

As for the puppy's age, can you wait to bring him on board when he's about 13 weeks old? He'll still be puppy but he'll have matured so that he should be able to sleep through the night without needing to go out for potty breaks at 2 a.m. Also, he won't be as likely to cry at night. Puppies in the 8 week division are not unlike human babies who need comforting, feeding and cleaning up after a potty oops.

Crates are fantastic for dogs. It's not a cruel device as some would suggest but more like a den for the dog. All of my dogs have enjoyed their crates and should we need to take them with us in an emergency and crate them, they are already trained. Plus they don't mind being kenneled at the vets or groomers. Crates will also help potty training considerably. Dogs will not usually soil in the area they sleep. Also, crates will keep a puppy confined to limited destruction. :)

I've always thought it was better to have 2 dogs for a couple of reasons. One being that the dogs can communicate in their language and have a playmate around. It's good to stagger them in age so that when one is lost to the Bridge, another one is there to help through the loss. And an older dog will help a puppy train quicker by being a mentor of sorts. My girls always potty trained quicker by taking cues from the elder one.

So.....when are you going to post pictures? :) Your puppy sounds ideal for your family and I think your daughter will enjoy the companionship for many years to come.

[farrellcollie]

Spring does seem a civilized time to adopt a puppy. For some reason all of my puppies have come in the dead of winter - January and Feb - horrible time to be running outside in the dead of night to let the pup go to the bathroom.

[Beane]

Just curious, how old is the puppy? Our family raised puppies for Guiding Eyes for the Blind and I can imagine that this one isn't a baby baby puppy (8 weeks or so), so the worst of the potty training/getting up in the middle of the night is probably done. The older they are, the longer they can hold their bladders, which is nice.

I got a puppy (not for GEB, as a pet) at age 15, and I have to say that she & I bonded very thoroughly and she helped me through some of the tough times in high school. But it did make leaving for college harder. Luckily my mom isn't too much of a guilter and she loved the dog as much as me, so it was OK. Something to think about, though.

[maillotpois]

The puppy is 11 weeks old as of now. He sleeps through the night in his crate, which is excellent. The GDB woman is setting up a meeting between our current dog and the pup to see how they get along. We shall see.

Emily I saw the pics of your pup - so CUTE!

[SuperRunt]

Exiting! Good luck with meetings and iterviews!

[kermit]

I think its a win win for your daughter and the other dog. Two is a great number and they will keep each other company while you work. The older guy will have a reason to get up and play and stay active and the little one will have a mentor. I had a golden retriever for 11 years and got him about the same age as your little guy. The BEST dog I've ever had. Your guy is well on the way and if he considers his crate home, even better. You have reservations but consider that your breed is smart, loyal, and very trainable. All my dogs started in the crate. It's a great training tool and a security blanket when they get older. Congrats. He's ssooooo cute!

[maillotpois]

Well Russo met the puppy, Piner today at Guide Dogs. The meeting went very well. There was a lot of wagging and wiggling and sniffing. I think the puppy is going to be a lot of fun for Russo, but we will have to discipline the puppy as he is quite persistent and bite-y at this stage. Russo did not correct him which ultimately he will need to do.

As I was driving up there I thought to myself I should take a picture with my camera phone but of course I forgot. :rolleyes: Looks like we'll probably be able to take him home Saturday. I have to go out of town the rest of the week otherwise it could be sooner.

Our daughter still does not know. I didn't want to tell her unless it was a done deal. Now I am just waiting because I can. :D

[nic840]

Oh yeah the bite stuff. Its only been 6 months since we got Wally and I almost forgot about that. They are mouthy for the first few months. Just make sure you have something to give them thats "theirs" when they start in on the biting.
The hardest part was my girls. They are much younger (2 & 4) than your daughter and he thought they were littermates. He would literally start running at them full speed and launch onto them like they were pups...teeth and all. Most of my girls shirts from that period have nice little bite holes from those SHARP puppy teeth. The common phrase was "MOM - Wally's Got Me!!!"
He didn't want to hurt, just play. So when you made a sound like you were being hurt by the bites he would jump back and stop. Kind of like a loud squeak. It only lasted about 5-6 weeks before he passed through that phase. Being firm and consistant.
I am so glad your big guy got along okay with him...they will end up enjoying each other's company. My little guy is heading off to hunt camp on Thursday and I am going to miss him tremendously!!! Please let me know if you need any lab resourses in Nor Cal. I am located in Sacramento. Congrats and looking forward to hearing how surprised your daughter is!! Yeah!!!

[jesvetmed]

Oh yeah the bite stuff. Its only been 6 months since we got Wally and I almost forgot about that.

LOL: Our lab is almost 11 yrs old and DH STILL hasn't forgotten... of course the scars on his wrists and hands are a daily reminder of puppy "bite-y" fun!

CONGRATS on the big leap into puppy owning, Mal! You'll love every seconds of it, even if it isn't all that fun all the time. They are SO wonderful! Glad your current dog seems to like new dog! Can't wait to hear how it goes and get those fuzzy pictures!

Jes

[Wahine]

Ooooooo, I'm so excited for you and your family. How fun!!

[sundial]

I can't wait for puppy pics. :D

[maillotpois]

I was in So Cal on business most of the week, but had something fun to look forward to today - picking up Piner!! We went out for breakfast this morning and were ostensibly going to "run errands" - one of which was picking up some medicine for Russo at Guide Dogs. Em really had no clue until his foster walked him into the office and we told her he was hers!

He is so dear. He imitates everything Russo does. So far they're getting along great. I am hoping Russo corrects his bratty baby behavior - he is so agreeable, and lets the puppy chew and climb on him.

Em meeting Piner:

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j285/maillotpois/DSC_3046.jpg

Piner and big brother Russo:

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j285/maillotpois/DSC_3056.jpg

Piner:

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j285/maillotpois/DSC_3064.jpg

[Blueberry]

Awwwww........

How cute!!!

CA

[redrhodie]

That's the sweetest puppy AND story EVER! Your daughter must be so psyched! Glad Russo likes him too!

[Tuckervill]

Pure joy in that first pic!

He's a little doll.

I have an 18 mo Golden/Airedale mix (we think). She's bigger than my other dog who is an Every-Flavor dog. He doesn't discipline her so much as tolerate her. She is very dog focused, and instead of greeting us like the other dog when we come home, she stalks him and attacks him. When he barks at the mail carrier, she barks at HIM barking at the mail carrier. He just tolerates her, and sometimes I see him modifying his behavior to prevent her from playing with her. My son's dog, an older female, I have caught holding Lucy down and biting her nose and Lucy getting contrite, but it doesn't last long.

All that to say that what you hope happens between your dogs might not. I hope it does!

Karen

[emily_in_nc]

Darling pup, enjoy!!!!

Emily (and Paisley, who is 14 weeks old and 8 lbs. today!)

[nic840]

Congratulations! I kept checking back to see when you got him. He is adorable and it looks like scenes at our house 6 months ago!
How surprised/excited was your daughter?
By the looks of those paws he is going to be a good size! Have fun and enjoy it.

My 9mo old just went off to hunting camp and now Oscar "the old man" is in heaven! He is acting like a pup who wants all the attention because Wally is gone for a while. Its pretty funny because he wouldn't fight for attention or toys when Wally was here. Now its all about him! I think he is enjoying being the only dog for a while.

I am glad Russo and Piner are getting along well. Trust me when it gets too rough he will put him in his place. Yeah new baby!

[Trek420]

Awwwwwwwwwww :D

[jobob]

Excellent ! :cool:

[Wahine]

Those are great pictures!! What a wonderful story. I'm so happy for you. Makes me kinda teary.:D

[maillotpois]

He is adorable and it looks like scenes at our house 6 months ago!
How surprised/excited was your daughter?


I thought it would look just like those pics you posted. ;)

Em was stunned. We planned for a day of errands (they were going to build a house for the outdoor cat and we had to get the lumber), but first had to go get medicine for Russo at Guide Dogs. They were having a big socialization morning with dozens of little puppies out being played with and handled. I went in to talk to the woman and finish the papers, and Em stayed out and watched the little ones being played with. Then they came in to meet the training cat (GDB has an amazing cat named George that weeds out the cat chasers), and then the foster brought Piner in. When I told her he was hers, she couldn't believe it. I cried.

Turns out the foster lives a couple streets over. Small world.

[Veronica]

So cool. He's adorable!

V.

[sundial]

What an adorable puppy! I can just feel how soft he is. Puppies are the best therapy and bring so many smiles. :) :)

[maillotpois]

Yellow dogs apparently show bike grease. :rolleyes: He has a bit of a chainring tattoo on his cheek this afternoon, bumping my bike as we walked down the stairs.

I guess that makes him a Fred. ;)

[spindizzy]

Hmmm.... little Freddie Piner..

Love your story and I am delighted that this little guy now has a wonderful, loving home. Congratulations. What a beautiful memory Em will have for the rest of her life!

[SuperRunt]

SO cute.

So glad it worked out! Congrats! :D