saddle and shorts

[kgorrell]

I'm looking for input on saddles and road cycling shorts. I bought a new bike in December and I'm having a lot of trouble finding a comfortable saddle. The shop that I'm going through is putting me on Specialized saddles and so far I haven't had much luck with any of them. I'm riding the ariel right now (which is actually a mountain bike saddle) and it's been the best so far. I've tried the women's ruby, men's avatar, men's toupe, men's alias and wasn't comfortable on any of them. Before the specialized saddles I tried the men's fizik arione. I'm a 143 and I'm finding that I'm more comfortable on something with a little more cushioning. I ride about 200 miles per week with some high intensity rides and I want something with enough cushion to be comfortable but not too much to where I'm sliding around. I'm finding that my sits bones are what is bothering me the saddles with less padding. If anyone has any thoughts or suggestions I would really appreciate it.

I'm also wanting to purchase some new shorts and was looking for input on that as well. I really like the Sheebeest Triple S and will probably order another pair but I am interested in trying something new.

Thanks.

[VeloVT]

As far as saddles are concerned -- you will probably find as many opinions here as there are folks to offer them :p... But it would be helpful if you could be more specific about what you liked & didn't like about each of the saddles you've tried. Are you looking for a cutout, or not, for instance?

Shorts... also as many opinions as riders...
--I really like the chamois in the SSS short too -- it's one of the most comfortable I've found. The higher-end Shebeest short has a comfy chamois too. Sadly I'm not crazy about the fabrics Shebeest uses and I think the paneling/cut/design tends to be ok, but there are better-fitting/more flattering shorts out there... it's always a trade-off...

--The chamois in the Terry Bella short is VERY similar the the Shebeest chamois, and is just as comfortable. The no-front-elastic design of the Bella is really comfortable. My biggest complaint with these shorts is that the lycra is super shiny -- which I don't mind the looks of but it's actually slippery, I find myself sliding around on my saddle more :D.

--I like Castelli's Kiss chamois (in lower-end shorts) and Y-Pro chamois (in more expensive shorts -- pad isn't much thicker but it is denser). I haven't tried their highest end chamois (in the Free shorts). Generally speaking, I just really like Castelli. Watch out for some of the lower end shorts with "Softlex" fabric -- it's kind of sloppy for shorts in my opinion (not very high lycra content).

--Lots of people LOVE Sugoi's RS Flex shorts. I really like the fabric (amazing for hot weather) and the super-slick paneling (the shorts fit beautifully -- they're extremely comfortable and flattering... generally speaking, I find that Sugoi does a great job with cut), but I just don't find this chamois that comfortable. It has much denser padding under the sitbones, and much lighter padding in front, which is the opposite of what I need -- but everyone is different.

--I am completely indifferent about PI shorts. If I find a great sale I'll pick a pair up, but I won't go out of my way to buy them.

That's all I can think of for now :cool:... Good luck!

[indysteel]

I think Liza and I are cut from the same cloth so to speak, although I have admittedly not tried the Castellis. But I share many of her opinions, having gone on a bit of a quest last year for new shorts. The Shebeest Ultra D's chamois has quite a bit of sit bone padding. I, personally, didn't love the the overall bulk of the chamois, however, and didn't find the cut particularly flattering. I liked the Craft Master short's chamois, too. The rise was just a little too short for my taste. I ultimately settled on the Sugoi RS short. I really love the material and the chamois's concentrated density for my sitbones. I agree with Liza that the density in the front it a bit less. I use a Terry saddle with a cut out, and that combo seems to work for me. I have a pair of PI Microsensors (2007 model). They're okay. Again, like Liza, I'm indifferent to PIs. I used to really like the Ultrasensors, but they widened the chamois in the front for 2007 and that didn't "sit" well with me.

At the end of the day, finding the right short requires a bit of trial and error unfortunately. I still have a pair of Hincapies that are almost brand new that need a good home.

[redrhodie]

I still have a pair of Hincapies that are almost brand new that need a good home.

What's the deal with them? I've been thinking of giving them a try.

[Tokie]

The Selle Italia sport saddle sold here at TE is a pretty comfy saddle, good padding, but not soft. I found the Specialized saddles rock-hard too, and have never liked the Terry saddles. I only ride about 125 miles a week and my butt is never sore tokie

[motochick]

I was in the same boat as you, too many saddles and none of them worked for longer rides. I researched what the distance riders were using and ended up trying the selle an-atomica saddle. It is wonderful. No pain anywhere! It worked out so well that hubby and I now have 4 of them.

Shorts was another pain in my @ss, quite literally. I used to wear PI but realized I needed bibs and the only chamois PI offered didn't work for me. I bought some Louis Garneau from TE and they work well but not perfect. They seem to "cameltoe" and it gets a little uncomfortable after a while.

My problem is, I need a chamois that is wide in the back end. My hubby wears Castelli bibs with the KISS chamois so I tried them on and the pad seemed like it would work for me. I ordered some in my size and the pad was great in the back, but too wide in the middle and front. (BTW, they do not make castelli bibs for women with the KISS chamois or those would be the ones I would wear) SOOOOO, what I did was undo the front half of the chamois, cut out the excess material (the wings) and sew the chamois back in place. Voila! $58 shipped and 20 min to customize. I have 2 pairs with another coming soon.

I have also tried the Exto Ondo bibs with the racior chamois and it was too narrow in the back. Too bad cuz they are NICE shorts. I need to get them in the for sale section.

Good luck on finding your right combo, it took me about 8 months but now all is good on my bottom end!

Brenda

[redrhodie]

I was in the same boat as you, too many saddles and none of them worked for longer rides. I researched what the distance riders were using and ended up trying the selle an-atomica saddle. It is wonderful. No pain anywhere!
Brenda

+1 for Selle An-Atomica. It's fannytastic. I love mine. Andrea had one that stretched out and caused HUGE discomfort, though. Mine is the Watershed leather, and I don't know if that's more resistant to stretching or not, but I haven't needed to tighten it yet, and it has around 1000 miles on it.

[Brandi]

I road 250 miles on rough road with a terry damselfly (spelling) and not a pain any place but for a little rash from a cheap pair of shorts (never do that again) My favorite shorts as of right now are a pair of Terry's I bought from someone here and now i don't know what they are called! So when i go to order i an scr*wed!

[kgorrell]

Thank you all for your input. This is my first time on the discussion board and I'm finding it very helpful. I didn't expect to receive so much feedback and really appreciate everyone's thoughts.

As far as the saddle pain, my pain is from the pressure on my sits bones (at least that's what it feels like). It seems like the friction on a saddle that does not have much padding really bothers me. It feels like my bones are being bruised if that makes any sense.

Has anyone tried Terry Butterfly or san marco?

And are the sugio RS shorts true to size? It says a small is a 27 and an extra small is 25.5, but I'm a 26 so I'm wondering if I be better off with a small or extra small?

[koala]

Use the hip measurement, not the waist. The waist has elastic & a drawstring for adjustment. But if you can't get the short up past your hips, it ain't gonna fit.

Tried both the Terry Butterfly & the San Marcos. The Butterfly was too soft, and the San Marcos were too hard. Butterfly padding squished down the more I rode it, and the cut-out folded in on my front parts (ouch!). The San Marcos were beyond firm, they were really hard. They also have humps that are supposed to suport the sit bones, but if they don't line up exactly right, they can be quite painful.

Did you try the Specialized Lithia in the 143? It's not as wide in the nose as the Ariel, but has a lot more padding than the race saddles you tried. And you might really like the padding in that Sugoi RS short, it should be beefy enough to protect your sit-bones.

[VeloVT]

Hey motochick: Castelli does make a women's bib with Kiss chamois:

http://www.bicyclinghub.com/20cazenduewo2.html

It is from this season too, since it's on Castelli's website:
http://www.castelli-us.com/pc-985-5-zen-due-bibshort-18.aspx

I have the half-short version of these, they're pretty comfortable.

To the original poster: I think the Sugoi shorts run pretty true to size. I wear a small in the RS Flex shorts, a small in PI, a small in Shebeest, etc. I can't say which size you should order based on your waist measurement -- my hips are a little bigger than most of the hip measurements given for smalls, for instance, but I have a huge difference between my waist and hips (wide hips -- waist is much smaller), and if I order to fit exact hip measurement the shorts will be too big all over (including chamois -- yuck!) -- it all depends on how you're built. But I think with these shorts you're probably safe ordering the size you wear in most other shorts...

ETA: funny that Koala and I should post at the same time. Just goes to show we're all built differently. I think it DOES make more intuitive sense to order by hips instead of waist, but IN FACT I get a better fit by ordering by waist size... go figure...

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Make sure you look at some of the bazillion threads all about various saddles and experiences with them:
http://forums.teamestrogen.com/forumdisplay.php?f=72

[VeloVT]

Now don't you go letting those Brooks people initiate you into the cult :D.

I admit Brooks saddle have certain vintage chic but they are H-E-A-V-Y and only look right on steel. IMHO :D.

Then, I love my Arione and only mourn its chubby 230g, and if I had the $$$ right now I'd definitely replace it with one of the new light 150g carbon rail Arione CXs. Every now and then I flirt with going to an SLR for weight but the Arione is SOOOOO comfy to me...

[motochick]

Wow! Thanks Liza. I saw the ones from the Castelli website, but it did not say which chamois it used. I searched hi and low, but somehow missed them. I will have to give the women's version a try!

To kgorrell, I have a Lady gel flow with very low miles if you would like to try it. It worked well for me on shorter rides.

Brenda

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Now don't you go letting those Brooks people initiate you into the cult :D.

I admit Brooks saddle have certain vintage chic but they are H-E-A-V-Y and only look right on steel. IMHO :D.

They're not as heavy as those huge hematomas I got on my butt from riding one time on a soft squishy padded saddle! :eek: :D :D

and.....everything looks right on steel....especially ME! :D

[VeloVT]

Wow! Thanks Liza. I saw the ones from the Castelli website, but it did not say which chamois it used. I searched hi and low, but somehow missed them. I will have to give the women's version a try!

To kgorrell, I have a Lady gel flow with very low miles if you would like to try it. It worked well for me on shorter rides.

Brenda

Google, because you can find them in a number of places, but I think they're significantly cheaper here:
http://www.glorycycles.com/cazenwobi18.html

These might be older though, different bib strap color. (I've ordered a few things from this shop though & they are legit and will answer your emails promptly).

[VeloVT]

They're not as heavy as those huge hematomas I got from riding on a soft squishy padded saddle! :eek: :D :D

and.....everything looks right on steel....especially ME! :D

Well, I have to admit that your new Luna is MUY BONITA and looks GUAPA with her Brooks. ;)


But still... ;)

[Andrea]

+1 for Selle An-Atomica. It's fannytastic. I love mine. Andrea had one that stretched out and caused HUGE discomfort, though. Mine is the Watershed leather, and I don't know if that's more resistant to stretching or not, but I haven't needed to tighten it yet, and it has around 1000 miles on it.
Yep- I had two of them (watershed version & all). They were great when the tension was up, but as soon as I reached the end of the tension bolt, the cutout started rubbing and cutting. I'm not close to the weight limit at which they'd recommend the Clydesdale version, either.

Now I ride a San Marco Glamour Aspide. I tried three Terry saddles and two Specialized ones. The Terry ones were too padded and the padding broke down & closed the cutouts shut (ow), and the specialized ones were just too wide in the middle area.

[redrhodie]

Now I ride a San Marco Glamour Aspide. I tried three Terry saddles and two Specialized ones. The Terry ones were too padded and the padding broke down & closed the cutouts shut (ow), and the specialized ones were just too wide in the middle area.

Andrea, I'm so glad you finally found your dream saddle! I'd consider buying one of the watersheds from you if you have it repaired.

kgorrell, this goes to show it really is trial and error. It can be a really expensive quest, too. There's not much you can do, but some saddles makers do let you return within a few hundred miles, so try some of those.

Wouldn't it be great if we could start a lending library for saddles? I have a Terry Zero I'd be willing to lend out if someone's thinking of trying one. Its leather is a little worn even though it only has <500 miles on it, so I don't think I should sell it.

[redrhodie]

Wouldn't it be great if we could start a lending library for saddles? I have a Terry Zero I'd be willing to lend out if someone's thinking of trying one. Its leather is a little worn even though it only has <500 miles on it, so I don't think I should sell it.

On second thought, that wouldn't work. Once someone found a saddle they liked, they'd never want to part with it. Also, Terry is one of those companies that lets you return saddles within a certain time frame. I just kept thinking this one was okay until it was too late. If anyone wants it, you can send me a pm. It's just sitting here. It's metallic pearl. Just pay shipping.

[OakLeaf]

Bleecker, hematomas, OW! How long was it before you could ride again???

+1 on trying the Specialized Lithia. It's T-shaped, but with a lot more padding than the Jett or Ruby. Terry saddles tend to be much more pear-shaped.

I like the idea of a saddle exchange. It wouldn't work for people who are hung up about the price, because there's just no way to equalize it (e.g. is an unused Fizik Vitesse Sport worth more or less than a high-dollar SSM with 1000 miles on it?) - it would have to be one-for-one regardless of the retail price, I think. Except there probably would have to be some consideration for the storeroom winding up with a whole pile of OEM saddles - maybe someone submitting an OEM would have to kick in $5 toward the cost of storage, or something.

But it had occurred to me before, and I think it's a good idea. Not everyone lives within range of a LBS that carries a large stock of saddles, not all LBS's are willing to let a customer try out saddles for an extended period of time, and even I don't like the idea of having to deal with, say, four or five mail order companies that I'd never heard of before, each of which only carries one of the saddles I'm curious about.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Bleecker, hematomas, OW! How long was it before you could ride again???

Oh gosh I was just KIDDING! :cool: I meant that I had incredible pain and subsequent numbness once from riding only 2 hours on a lightweight foam padded "comfort" saddle, whereas riding on my 'hard' unpadded 'heavy' Brooks is totally dreamy-comfortable. I doubt if a Brooks is more than a couple onces or so heavier than most other saddles anyway.

[redrhodie]

My Zero has a new home!

[kgorrell]

Here is more specific information if anyone has had similar problems or has additional suggestions on a saddle that might work:

The specialized ariel seems to be the most comfortable so far and it feels like if it were a little wider in the back, a little narrower in the nose, and a little firmer it would be perfect (is that too much to ask?). The lithia does look like a possibility and I will try to give it a try before giving up on Specialized saddles. As far as the pain on my sits bones, it seems to be on the inside where I'm having trouble. It feels like something wider in the back would solve that problem. All the saddles I've been trying have been cutouts which I'm not sure I necessarily need in a saddle. I feel like the ruby and the alias were way too hard and something with firm padding would be ideal (the ariel is a little too cushy).

Anyway, I'm going to try to test out the Lithia and if that doesn't work then I'm not really sure what I'll do next.

Thanks to all those who have offered suggestions and input.

[VeloVT]

Don't know what your reaction to the Arione was, but if you sort of liked some things about it, you might think about trying the Fizik Vitesse. It is wider in back (150 mm or 155, I forget), has much more of a "t" shape than the Arione (narrower nose, more abrupt flare at the back), but is nice and firm. My bf has a 2007 Specialized Alias that neither of us like, it has "corners" that you run into at the rear -- although the Vitesse has a "t" shape, the transition is smooth and comfortable.

The Vitesse is a women's saddle -- it came stock on my new bike -- after riding it for a while I have decided I actually prefer the Arione, but not because the Vitesse is uncomfortable for any reason, I just like how easy it is to "slide around" and ride in different spots comfortably on the Arione -- the Vitesse is more of a traditional "find the sweet spot and stay there" shape.

Good luck!

Edit: here is a link to the Vitesse on Fizik's website -- if you look for the little, teeny-tiny numbers beneath the picture, there are three different views, so you can get a better idea of the overall shape:
http://www.fizik.it/catalog.aspx?subid=Vitesse_HP_winglex_top