Nalgene to phase out hard plastic bottles

[7rider]

Thought this might be of general interest:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24200402

The AP text is below:


"ROCHESTER, N.Y. - Hard-plastic Nalgene water bottles made with bisphenol A will be pulled from stores over the next few months because of growing consumer concern over whether the chemical poses a health risk.

Nalge Nunc International, a division of Waltham, Mass.-based Thermo Fisher Scientific Inc., said Friday it will substitute its Nalgene Outdoor line of polycarbonate plastic containers with BPA-free alternatives.

“By eliminating containers containing BPA from our consumer product mix, our customers can have confidence that their needs are being met,” Steven Silverman, general manager of the Nalgene business, said in a statement.

With more than 6 million pounds produced in the United States each year, bisphenol A is found in dental sealants, baby bottles, the liners of food cans, CDs and DVDs, eyeglasses and hundreds of household goods. The chemical has been linked to neurological and behavioral problems in infants and babies, along with certain cancers, diabetes and obesity.

The reusable, transparent sports accessory is made at a factory in suburban Rochester that employs about 900 people.

Nalge Nunc was founded in 1949 by Rochester chemist Emanuel Goldberg. The lab-equipment supplier’s product evolved in the 1970s after rumors spread about its scientists taking hardy lab vessels on weekend outings. That led the company to form a water-bottle consumer unit targeting Boy Scouts, hikers and campers.

In 2000, a new sports line of Nalgene-brand bottles offered in red, blue and yellow hues quickly became the rage in high schools and on college campuses.

Highly durable and lightweight, resistant to stains and odors, and able to withstand extremes of hot and cold, screw-cap Nalgene bottles are marketed as an environmentally responsible substitute for disposable water bottles.

Citing multiple studies in the United States, Europe and Japan, the chemicals industry maintains that polycarbonate bottles contain little BPA and leach traces considered too low to harm humans.

But critics point to an influx of animal studies linking low doses to a wide variety of ailments — from breast and prostate cancer, obesity and hyperactivity, to miscarriages and other reproductive failures.

An expert panel of 38 academic and government researchers who attended a National Institutes of Health-sponsored conference said in a study in August that “the potential for BPA to impact human health is a concern, and more research is clearly needed.”"

[sgtiger]

The question is, what do we all do with the ones we have? Do they just fill-up the landfills and leach BpA into our watersheds?:confused::(

We have at least a half doz.(used to be more) of these bottles at home because we used to do a lot of outdoor activities(backpacking, rock climbing, etc.) where we needed to take our own water, and sometimes pack our own waste out, and not have it leak all over the gear in our packs. I guess I could designate a couple more of them for waste, but what about the rest? How do I even know if the alternative is any safer? Will I have more bottles to throw out a decade from now? From my childhood, I remember when CFC was being phased out of use as an aerosol propellant and replaced in many cases by HCFC which some argued was almost as harmful or more harmful to the ozone than CFC. Sigh? Some days I wish there was someone who had all the answers and would do the important decision-making for me.:rolleyes:

[mimitabby]

mail them back to nalgeen?

[Melalvai]

Wow. Part of my thesis work was on bisphenol A. My advisor was one of the main researchers in this field. I know he's spent a lot of time in DC at BPA hearings and such, but it hadn't occurred to me that companies might voluntarily start taking this off the market before legislation made them.

[7rider]

The question is, what do we all do with the ones we have? Do they just fill-up the landfills and leach BpA into our watersheds?:confused::(



Wow. Lots of good questions.
"Re-use" would certainly be one option. I wonder if Nalgene would have a return program like Kryptonite had with the "Pick with a Bic" problem....

[KnottedYet]

I'm not going to worry too much at this point.

I don't store things in my Nalgene, and my drinks are only in there for an hour or so before I consume them.

Certainly get less plastic aromatics from my current hot-n-sexy clear Nalgene than I was getting from my 23 year old lab Nalgene that it replaced.

I'll worry more about the plastic lining in my steel cans of tomatoes that sat on the shelf for several months...

[singletrackmind]

We can recycle them here (no 7 plastic) but like Knotted I'm not tossing mine into the bin just yet. I won't be buying more and my son is getting a different bottle rather than sharing mine but that's it for me so far.

[sgtiger]

Yeah, I'm actually still using mine. The question was more rhetorical than anything else at this time. I'd have to say I'm more concerned with what my brother told me about plastic molecules trading places with food molecules when you nuke food in the microwave. He says he read somewhere that some reaserchers found plastic molecules suspended in fat cells in people that they(the reasearchers) believe got there because of it. I'd like to be able to read the actual paper, though, before I put any stock in it.

[mupedalpusher]

Melalvai's advisor and another researcher in my department are doing this research. They are constantly testing various bottles for this stuff and scolding us for using bottles that might contain it! Pretty cool that companies are finally taking precautions to make the bottles safe.

[sgtiger]

Yeah, I agree, it's awesome that Nalgene is voluntarily pulling them off the shelves.

[KnottedYet]

Can one of you two who work with the stuff please post some links to some real science? (summarized, but not media-hysteric?)

Last study I read put the clear Nalgene bottles at the TOP of the safe bottle list, right under SIGG steel. (BTW, squeezable plastic sports bottles were at the bottom, very bad for you.) That was a couple years ago, and what convinced me to toss my ancient lab Nalgene and jump on the polycarb bandwagon.

Edit to add: i still suspect I get more plastic aromatics from the other stuff in my life than I do from my Nalgene. Plastic sealants on my teeth, plastic bite-splint being ground to bits between my teeth every night, plastics in my clothes, foods packaged in plastic...

ETA: found this stuff http://www.nalgene-outdoor.com/technical/bpaInfo.html http://www.bisphenol-a.org/whatsNew/20080205.html

[Jolt]

I'll be interested to see if they have any kind of program for sending the Lexan bottles back to Nalgene--doesn't seem that likely though. Maybe the best thing is to think of other uses for them if they can't be easily recycled. Any ideas? I have a couple of those bottles sitting on the shelf and am thinking of using them to put gorp and the like in for hiking trips. Solids shouldn't really pick up BPA from the plastic like liquids do, I don't think. At least if they're not stored for long periods in the bottles.

[KnottedYet]

Geocaches!
The BpA Nalgene widemouth bottles would make great geocaches! www.geocaching.com

meanwhile, here's Nalgene's website of the various materials they use for the different lines of containers (click on the names on the left). Tells you which have BpA and phlatates and which don't. http://www.nalgenechoice.com/index.html

[Brandi]

We are going to use our's in our garden. When we mix stuff for the plants we will use those bottles for that. I have decided to just not use them. To me it is not worth it. I mean it is bad enough we have to many chemicals already in our life now i have to worry about what I drink my water out of.
My sister in law died at 34 leaving my brother with a 3 year old son to raise on he's own. She died of a type of breast cancer they said was environmental. She had to many chemicals in her body. They tried to fight it and changed the way they lived but it didn't help.
So I am cautious becuase of that.

[Red Rock]

I have a few of these as well, but what are the safe replacements besides the stainless steel?

[Bad JuJu]

I have a few of these as well, but what are the safe replacements besides the stainless steel?
That's my question--what do we use instead? I can't see myself drinking water out of a steel bottle two hours into a ride on a hot Saturday in July. And as far as I know, as someone else noted, the standard squeezable plastic bike bottles are even worse for us--you can even taste the plastic when you use those. Glass doesn't seem practical. My poor head! :confused:

[KnottedYet]

The Soma crystal bottles are BpA free, and don't mess with the taste of your stuff. http://www.somafab.com/bottle.html I have some pretty old and well-loved ones, and they are still fabulous.

And everything else Nalgene makes other than the polycarbonate bottles is BpA free. http://www.nalgenechoice.com/

Be careful with stainless and aluminum. Some brands are lined with BpA plastics. So if you are concerned about BpA, steer clear.

I haven't thrown out my PC bottle yet. I'm thinkin' geocache, first aid kit, bike part container... or drinking from it.

[Melalvai]

Knotted, I think the Wikipedia article on BPA is reasonably accurate. You are right to be leary of media going head over heels one way, and industry propaganda the other way.

I will say that industry was over-represented on the National Toxicology Program report saying "negligible concern". As soon as the studies showing low-dose effects started coming out, the plastics industry launched a campaign to discredit that research. The tactics they used were fascinating, and ultimately doomed, it appears.

I do not believe that BPA poses a significant threat to adults. Fetal exposure to BPA causes reproductive problems in adulthood. That's why it's hard to detect the effects; they show up so long after the exposure. BPA bioaccumulates so the dose you get as a child from eating canned food will hang around until you are pregnant, and affect your child.

[Jolt]

I haven't thrown out my PC bottle yet. I'm thinkin' geocache, first aid kit, bike part container... or drinking from it.

I tried the first aid kit idea with one of mine, actually. The only problem with it is that it's hard to get things out easily--you end up having to dump it all out and some things sort of get stuck (4x4 gauze pads etc.).

[boy in a kilt]

Nalgene bottles seem like they'd be pretty dandy for cleaning chains in. Add solvent and chain, shake like hell, empty.

Since I don't have access to the actual journals, all I could read was abstracts and all I could glean from them is the jury is still out.

Kevin (SG's brother) is 3/4 right about not heating stuff in plastic containers. I did a quick scan of the net and found government agencies in the UK, Singapore and the US saying that single-use plastic and polystyrene containers are not suitable for heating/reheating food.

It may be my cantankerous upbringing but I don't trust the media to give me an unbiased view of what is going on. The popular science magazines (Sci Am, New Scientist, Discover, etc.) do a good job because if they don't their readers will pillory them. The rest are just trying to sell advertising by hawking the horror of the day.

[OakLeaf]

I don't think that just because a plastic container won't physically melt all over your food (like polystyrene or polyethylene), it's necessarily safe in the microwave.

A few years ago DH brought home some polycarbonate Tupperware containers that were labeled as microwave-safe. Not knowing any better, I tried that once. It didn't melt, not one bit, but it released fumes that were so noxious I had to evacuate and ventilate the kitchen.

Just because polypro doesn't do either of those things, I'm not totally convinced that I can rely on its safety. Yes, I microwave it - with reservations, same as I still get my water in polycarbonate jugs. No, I don't trust either one of them.

[tulip]

I bought a couple of bottles of Pellegrino (glass bottles), and I happily drank the fancy bubbly water. Now I fill the bottles with regular tap water and use a wine bottle stopper and it works great. Glass is the way to go, and they only cost the price of a nice bottle of mineral water.

[7rider]

I bought a couple of bottles of Pellegrino (glass bottles), and I happily drank the fancy bubbly water. Now I fill the bottles with regular tap water and use a wine bottle stopper and it works great. Glass is the way to go, and they only cost the price of a nice bottle of mineral water.

They generally don't fit well, tho', in a bike's water bottle cage....

[KnottedYet]

They generally don't fit well, tho', in a bike's water bottle cage....

The Soma Crystal bike bottles do, and they are fab-o!
http://www.somafab.com/bottle.html

Knot-tirelessly-pimping-Soma's-polypro-bike-bottles

[tulip]

They generally don't fit well, tho', in a bike's water bottle cage....

No, I wasn't talking about a bike water bottle, just a bottle-o-water to carry around--at work, in the car, places like that.

For bike riding, I stick with my regular plastic bike waterbottles (not nalgene--but the sqeezable kind). I drink the water pretty quickly, and I empty/wash them after the ride, so there's not much time for the nasties to infiltrate. My car and work water bottles, however, stay full alot longer.

When I was 15, I rode my bike through France for a month. Evian and Volvic came only in glass bottles in those days, and they fit in our water bottle cages.

[Chile Pepper]

This is all so confusing. Two questions for those who know.

--My bike bottles are no. 4 LDPE. My quick research indicates that these do not contain BPA, and I could not find any reference to other toxic compounds that they might be leaching--yet several people in this thread have made references to the fact (myth?) that these are worse than the Nalgene. They do affect the taste of the water, but are they toxic?

--I have some nice polycarbonate cups that I originally bought to use by the pool, but which have become our regular drinking glasses. I have generally read that the harder polycarbonate leaches significantly less than the softer polycarbonates (blended plastics) and that hot liquids generate more leaching than cold. So I haven't been worried. I also haven't worried about the several years that I mixed my younger son's formula in Avent bottles (nothing I can do about it now). So, should I (a) panic and toss the cups because they're going to turn my boys into girlie men; (b) return them to pool-only usage, because all things are ok in moderation; or (c) continue to use them because I like them and the scare is mostly media hype?

Thanks for your advice, ladies!

[tulip]

Chile, it is confusing. I use glass whenever possible (definitely in the microwave and for non-cycling drinking). When I need to use plastic, like for biking, I use it, but only when I need to.

[7rider]

No, I wasn't talking about a bike water bottle, just a bottle-o-water to carry around--at work, in the car, places like that.


I know. I was just being a wise-guy. ;)


I'm sitting here, sipping water out of my Nalgene On-the-Go bottle. I wonder if the plastic Brita filter is leaching nasty stuff into my water? Boy...wouldn't that be ironic??

I just don't know where to go with this...... To echo BJJ "My poor head!" :(

[Melalvai]

Chile, whatever makes you the most comfortable. If every time you use them now you have that in the back of your mind and are wondering what you are exposing yourself to, replace them.

I also don't worry about what I exposed my daughter to. That was before I joined a lab studying BPA and pthalates, and it was too late to do anything about it. My future grandkids, on the other hand...