@3%$#&*^%

[Veronica]

I have a student who is an out and out bully. I've been out two days this week - Mon. and today. He got a two day in school suspension for bullying on Mon. Today he gets another suspension for bullying.

Dad is at his wit's end with the boy and wants to meet tomorrow - Friday - after school. Yeah, I'm sure that will be real productive. I've already had three meetings with these parents about their kid and his bullying. Right now I am just livid. WTF am I suppose to tell this parent. The parents have created a 12 year old monster who is manipulative and takes advantage of others when he can. Like when I'm not there. I cannot this fix this boy. He's been allowed to get away with so much stuff at home and there's not nearly enough supervision for him at home. I have no advice to give the parent. I am not a counselor.

And I'm not going to stop going to my medical appointments just because I have a loony kid who can't behave if I'm not there.

Anyway...thanks for reading.

V.

[VeloVT]

Gently suggest that they attend family counseling? Or at least that the boy get some counseling? (Sounds like it could be a family issue though). The parents may mean perfectly well and have no clue what they're doing wrong. I think that's the case pretty often with parents, even when the consequences are milder.

[maillotpois]

Grr. That's maddening!

How was the bike fit???

[Veronica]

Just got back from a ride. The bike fit gets its own happy post.



V.

[Wahine]

V - I would second that the family seek out some counselling. When I run into these types of problems with patients (for eg, a lot of their issues are psychological and a few are physical and the psych ones are interfering...) I usually explain clearly what it is that I am good at and explain that the current issue is something that I cannot address with my bag of tricks. Then I explain that the next step is to direct them to someone who can help them with the issue at hand and I reiterate that that person is not me.

That sucks. I can't wait to read your bike fit post and I do hope that it's happy.

[Veronica]

What drives me nuts is the kid actually uses his family as an excuse for his behavior when he talks to the principal. She of course feels sorry for him and cuts him some slack. He is very manipulative. And he doesn't pull this crap when I'm there.

When somebody presses charges against him for assault I doubt the police will take into consideration his "family issues". BTW we have no evidence that there are family issues, other than than that he is the only boy and has been allowed to do as he likes for most of his life. And now that he is about to go into middle school, his parents want to rein him in. I want to say, "Why didn't you listen to his K and first grade teachers when they told you had bullying issues?" It's not like it's a new thing for this kid. It's been a problem for the 7 years he's been in school.

V.

[Wahine]

On second thought.... tell them to send him to military school.


Was that a bad thing to say? I just can't stand manipulative people and bullies.:mad::mad:

Why is it that so many humans can't find compassion for others in their hearts? I mean this boy for other people, not you V. Thank goodness for teachers like you.

[kat_h]

When he gets to middle school there will be bigger bullies waiting for him.

[Veronica]

I know that is part of my frustration. I have tried so hard with this kid this year - lots of one on one talking and tutoring - trying to get him to see how other people perceive the things he says and does. And then the minute I am not there, he takes advantage of the situation and goes right back to being an a$$.

I feel like he was just blowing smoke all along. This is one of those I need to not take personally.

V.

[Velobambina]

Imagine what he'll be like as an adult.....

[Veronica]

Yeah, that's what scares me.

Today I found out that he spent his day of suspension riding around on his scooter, going to 7-11 to get slurpees...

What do parents think suspended means - a holiday?


V.

[SouthernBelle]

That is what has always bothered me about suspensions. The ones who are most likely to get suspended are the ones whose parents aren't going to do anything. So they get out of school to play.

[bmccasland]

Apparently that's exactly what his parents think. They have to be involved in raising their son. It isn't the school's place to be the primary one to teach the brat manners.

You'll probably love this one... one of my friends showed me a picture of his 10 or 11 yr old son, who was in black-face, and obviously had been crying. Apparently his son made some inappropriate remark about not wanting to do something with the neighbor boy, soley because the other child was black. So Dad drags him in the house and paints his face black. THEN makes the child go walk around the block and explain to child he sees what he had done. Dad sees his neighbor lady (who's black), driving by, waves her to a stop, and has said child explain to her his misdeeds. Neighbor lady thanks child, and calls Dad later to express sincere gratitude. The Dad isn't a severe person, and had been trying to teach the boy, but had reached the end of his rope. And he said, his parents did the same thing to him, and that was when he finally learned his lesson - racial slurs are a bad thing.

[makbike]

Does your school have a counselor assigned to it? If so, could the counselor attend the conference? Counseloring is a great idea but be careful about how you approach this one. Where I teach if I suggest counseloring the district is then obligated to supply it, not sure if that applies to your home district or not.

[Veronica]

Yeah, we can't suggest counseling either.

Most of the time I love my job, but this type of situation just makes me nuts.

V.

[LBTC]

V. one of the many reasons I admire and respect you is that you are a teacher. I could never do what you do every day - there's so much at stake and so much out of your control.

I'm sending you loads of butterflies to help the situation as much as possible, and hoping that you'll get out on your bike and really enjoy that new bike fit a lot after that conference is done.

Hugs,
~T~

[Crankin]

Veronica, what is the process for getting this kid referred for a spec. ed. evaluation? It sounds like your district doesn't have a lot of resources, but is there a school or district level counselor or psychologist to talk to?
Meanwhile I would document everything, so when he goes to the middle school, they don't say you didn't do anything.
It sounds like this kid could have severe emotional, behavioral, and/or learning issues. In MA if the parents make a referral for eval., it gets done pronto. Way before it would be done if it was requested by the school.
You could suggest that they take him to his pediatrician. Sometimes parents listen to a doctor when this type of situation is described. That way, they can access the health care system for counseling or ADD eval. and not the school. Tell them you are willing to fill out the Connors scale or whatever the docs around you use for this type of evaluation.
Do you need to get DSS involved?
Just some thoughts from someone who has been there. Thankfully my school is wonderful in dealing with these things.

Robyn

[Geonz]

Doesn't sound like sped. Sounds like spoiled bully. Though the thought of getting the sped label could scare him! (I've been a sped teacher. I would *not* want a skilled bully in my classes with my inexpert-at-social-skills kids. I was always extremely glad that my county in Virginia considered learning disabilities and emotional disorders separate - many places stuck 'em together - urgh!!!)
DOcument, document, document. Be consistent. Consistent. Consistent.

Oh, and another reason not to sped. Schools have all kinds of rules that boil down to not being willing to consistently discipline labeled students.... these being the kiddos that need consistency the MOST. But... procedures say X days of suspension mean a "manifestation hearing" so the admins would want to spread out the suspensions... pretty much randomly. Thing is, research has shown that works - if you don't mind the idea that fear is behind obeying the rules - but that's with folks who start out fitting in with the rules of the society.

[mupedalpusher]

It all starts at home. When our son would misbehave at school, we always tried to find logical consequences for him. We aren't perfect parents but we sure try to do what's right. In HS our son was kicked out for 3 days for smoking at a golf meet and another time for making smart-a$$ remarks to a teacher who later admitted to us that she actually started it but didn't have the nerve to stand up to the principal! Each time, we made him volunteer and give his labor doing yard work on the days he was out of school. Not only was it embarrassing for him, it wasn't a free vacation. He never broke the law or did anything bad at school but he did learn a lot about natural consequences even when it wasn't always fair.
Our daughter has some girls in school that are flat out mean (5th graders). Last summer we had the misfortune to be on the same ball team. We saw first hand what she had been complaining about, they were mean and disrespectful to their teammates and adults. After sitting in the stands with their parents it was easy to see why. I was appalled at how their families behaved. It was clear to me that the girls learned by example. Family values and teaching simple respect seems to be a thing of the past for some people, it's sad. My philosophy is that these are the same people who exhibit road rage and honk at me on my bike! The world is all about them it seems. Good luck with this kid but if you can't get help at home he's probably a lost cause. Sad but true.

[Tri Girl]

In our district, if we suggest something, we have to pay for it. If we suggest counseling, therapy, special testing: we have to foot the bill (stupid, yes!) Keeps us from saying things that we really need/want to because we're liable for getting the services we're suggesting. Sometimes I wish we could send anonymous letters to parents telling them the truth and saying what needs to be said (good, bad, otherwise). ;)
I've been in your shoes. I dealt with a major bully 3 years ago. Very similar situation- no parental control, lots of excuses, major manipulation. It's very tough, and it was a rough year. This year I have my "mountain" to deal with. Not a bully, but EXTREME ADHD (diagnosed by several different doctors, and this kid was even on Stratera when he was younger but mom thinks she can control his behavior through diet- which she absolutely cannot). Anyway, his behavior is totally impulsive, completely insane and not only bugging the holy h*ll out of his classmates and me, but socially isolating himself from any interaction with any other human. Mom and dad won't listen, have 7 other kids, don't care, etc... A dozen conferences and behavior plans later and still no change on the horizon. I do the best I can for him when I have him and try my best. Very frustrating. :mad:

Anywho- I can only tell you that you're right- you can't take this personally and to heart. You've put yourself into the position to help him as much as you can, but you can't undo 12 years of consistent inconsistency from home. Unfortunately, he's learned how to manipulate the world and say and do whatever he needs to to get the desired result. Don't give up, but don't wear yourself out or change your life around to have to be there all the time. I don't know if that helped, but I hope you can survive the last month or two in peace, and send him on knowing you did what you could and fell satisfied with that. You're a great teacher, but you can't change bad parenting. If you could- you'd make our jobs so easy "a caveman could do it.":p

And to think: when I started teaching 10 years ago kids weren't this bad (meaning: I didn't have to deal with as many situations like yours on a daily basis). What will it be like in another 10? I sometimes fear what my job will be like. I seem to do a little less teaching each year, and a little more parenting. It's one reason I don't want to be a mom myself. I do enough parenting at school teaching right from wrong, disciplining other's children, having heart to heart talks about the world and mean kids, teaching common courtesy. It's sad.

Sorry this was so long. I got carried away with my own issues. It's been a tough year...

[Crankin]

I don't think this kid has a real special ed issue; but it could be ADHD, coupled with very bad parenting. Any parenting ed. classes around for them? This is where your school counselor/psych. could help.
As said before, just starting the pre-referral process might be enough to get these parents off their a$$es to do something.
How about coming up with some logical consequences for this kid, as a team, including the parents. Some parents really have no clue!
And yes, I can relate to the "mean girls" described above. They are rampant during the middle school years (especially 5th-7th grade). My school is a Developmental Design/Responsive Classroom school and we have an anti-bullying program. Both of these things have gone a long way to help the kids find different ways to act. But, being mean seems to be part of the "testing" that happens at this age.
I was a pretty mean girl when I was that age...

[Trek420]

V. one of the many reasons I admire and respect you is that you are a teacher.

+1, our (Duck on Wheels and I) Mom's a retired teacher and later was a reading therapist. I could never do what she did. I got to "see her in action" teaching 1st grade and kindergarten, it was kind of amazing this room full of kids and Mom orchestrating it. :cool:

But I'm glad she does not have to deal with what teachers have on their plates today.

V, have you seen the latest Rivendel catalog has an article on raising kids. I'm just starting to read it. Whatcha think?

[Veronica]

We just got ours in the mail Thursday or Friday and I was out riding today. Thom usually gets it first. :)

V.

[doc]

V
Focus on those great kids who make your job worthwhile; The ones who actually learn something; The times when you see a light-bulb go on; When sharing and cooperating result in a great project.

Remember the times when a kid or parent actually says "thank you". Remember helping the quiet kid come out of his/her shell.

And remember the bad stuff always seems bigger and more pervasive than the good stuff, but you can change your focus and push the bad stuff down to size.

You go girl!