Waay off topic Q about "music systems"

[SadieKate]

So I was chatting with V the other day bemoaning the lack of classical stations in the area and that the few have very weak signals. She mentioned "music system." What? I'm barely beyond vinyl. So my poor little old boombox won't take a powered antenna which means (cuz I researched the new tech) a "micro system."

Due to the chat with V I discovered there is a ton of free classical radio on the net, including my beloved NPR station, but I hate speakers 18" from my ears. So I think with this little bitty Sony (http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921665369446) I can somehow turn off my monitor's speakers and connect via cable to the Sony? Or for another 50 clams add bluetooth (http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921665333301).

My new computer is a Dell Latitude D630. Of course, my company didn't provide any manuals, no nothing. How do I tell if it is Bluetooth enabled? Dell's website says it is but I can't find anything on the computer but then I'm not a compooter geek. coming up for air It would be cool not to deal with wires across the room (unless I'm confused about this whole thing).

HyperConnectTM
Keeps users connected any time, virtually anywhere2
Wireless-N, based on 802.11n technology, with up to 5X the speed and 2X the range of traditional Wi-Fi® when used with a Wireless-N router3
HyperBand Diversity Antenna delivers superior multi-band wireless performance for mobile broadband and Wi-Fi
Integrated Bluetooth 2.0 with Enhanced Data Rate makes it easy to connect personal devicesTake advantage of Dell’s support for the industry’s leading mobile broadband carriers
Built-in Dell WiFi CatcherTM Utility switch lets you quickly find a network, even when the laptop’s closed
Anyone have any suggestions for solving my need for classical music radio? Of course, I could call on Thom in my usual way, but I can just see his eyes rolling. There goes SadieKate again!

PS for Mr. Thom - thanks for explaining the VPN/printer network challenges in English. Now, if Bill could figure out how to scan a document all by his little self we'd really be rolling.

[bikerz]

Hey SK -

My new laptop is a Dell Latitude 630 - the bluetooth was an optional accessory. If you have it and if it is enabled, you will see an icon like the one circled in red in your system tray.

5706

It also might show up under your network places.

[OakLeaf]

I love my Squeezebox! (http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/speakers_audio/wireless_music_systems/devices/881&cl=us,en) But it connects to an existing audio system.

ETA: I don't know what kind of bitrate you can get over Bluetooth. Plus the range is much shorter than 802.11, only about 30 feet or so. Audiophiles complain about bitrate over 802.11g, but I can't hear any problems with the sound quality (and neither can DH who has a much better ear than I do).

[bikerz]

Oh yeah - the Squeezebox is extremely cool.

I spent months researching and preparing to move to digital audio, and I ripped all of my CDs to flac files over the winter "break". I have been using the Squeezebox hooked to my regular amps and speakers for months now; the sound quality is excellent, and to my ear (and after many hours of comparative listening), indistinguishable from the original CD.

I found that the quality digital/audio converter (DAC) in the computer sound card had a much, much bigger effect on overall quality than the the wireless bandwidth. The DAC on my PC's sound card was horrible, even after I upgraded, but the Squeezebox DAC is very, very good for the price.

SK - the Squeezebox in and of itself might be overkill (and too $$$) for your immediate purposes, but it is a really cool way to expand your access to music without giving up any existing investment in analog stereo equipment. Even if you don't want to use it to play mp3s or other format digital music from a hard drive anytime soon , it has a great web interface and remote for playing music from radio stations on the net or through subscription music services like Rhapsody and Pandora.

[if you think you might be interested in going this route, let me know, because I might have an extra one to sell very slightly used...]

[SadieKate]

You guys are sure trying to spend my money, huh? :D

OK, here's the deal. Good stereo is upstairs. It can receive at least the two local public stations. It is hooked to the DVD/CD and cable TV. Would it be nice to get internet radio up there? Yes, but not critical.

My office downstairs - I have to have classical music but I like being exposed to new recordings or composers that I don't have in my collection, therefore I need (ok, want) radio. I only have a cheapo Aiwa boombox that cannot take a powered antenna, and so far the Aiwa mini-system which will take an antenna is not receiving the one classical music station with the powered antenna we just bought last night. Not looking good.

So I have to buy some kind of music equipment for my office but don't want to spend an arm and a leg. It's a small room and it's background music to work to. I have a somewhat critical ear from early training, but I'm no audiophile. Plus, there's the hum of the computers and printers. That little Sony had fine sound for the purpose.

What I'd really like is something like the Squeezebox I could hook up to my modem to access internet radion and feed to the little Sony and never have to do anything with my work computer. Then I could play my iPod when I want or use the radio.

Does anyone make some kind of standalone product that will do that? Probably costs an arm and a leg and a half.

FYI, the iPod files are on our personal computer which is down the hall in Bubba's den and used for his work so I only use it for quick down/uploads for iPod and Polar.

PS - The Squeezebox is hooked to your stereo? Then wireless feed from your PC to the Squeezebox? I'd suggest this to Bill for the upstairs stereo but it would have to work over a long distance and then Bill would have to be willing to leave his computer running, and that ain't going to happen. He turns it on and off 3 or 4 times a day.:rolleyes:

[SadieKate]

Bikerz, no Bluetooth. Thanks for the easy to use set of instructions.

I could always use a Bluetooth adaptor. Would still prevent the cable across the room logistics problem.

[bikerz]

But OF COURSE I'm trying to spend your money! :D (I'm just returning the favor of how much fun everyone has had helping me spend my money on bike stuff over the years). :)

The Squeezebox has an RCA "out" jack that plugs into your amp as just another source input. It receives music signals streamed wirelessly from your PC (either from the internet or from music files on your PC) through your home wireless network. It does require a powered PC somewhere connected to the internet whenever you want to listen to music, and it needs to plug into something that received standard RCA inputs. [ETA: the new Squeezebox Duet does not need a PC turned on, according to the site. I have the slightly older model, without the neat-o color display.]

Now that I understand your setup better, I'd recommend the Squeezebox if you had a spare amp and speakers laying around, which you could set up in your office, and use the Squeezebox as your music source.

But since that's not the situation, probably a pair of powered speakers hooked up to your laptop or docking station would be perfect for your purposes. You can get some that have slightly longer cables so they are not so close to your head. I haven't had any experience with the wireless speakers, but bluetooth adapters are cheap and easy to come by.

[SadieKate]

We haven't tested our wireless reception throughout the house. Do you think a Squeeze box installed upstairs would work with a modem downstairs? What internet speed is necessary given the fact that wireless is a little slower than ethernet?

I may tell Bubba about this so he can get his jazz stations.

Editing - our home internet speed is 1.5 Mbps/896 Kbps

[bikerz]

If you can access your wireless network upstairs from your laptop, the Squeezebox will work just fine (it has it's own wireless card built in). Your internet speed is totally fine.

In my house, the cable modem and wireless router are downstairs, and the Squeezebox is upstairs, and I have no transmission issues at all - it works perfectly.

One of my pals who has this system purchased an inexpensive media PC to power his music system and Squeezebox - it is whisper silent, and has a very compact form factor (way smaller than most stereo components). I am using an old PC I had around, and it is fine, but I plan to resuscitate my dead laptop drive and then use my laptop for the music system since it is quieter and smaller.

I'd like to upgrade to the new Squeezebox with the display in the remote (http://www.slimdevices.com/pi_duet.html) in the next month or so, and when I do, I'll have this one (http://www.slimdevices.com/pi_squeezebox.html) available for sale cheap...

[SadieKate]

Just carried my old work computer upstairs and the wireless signal was, at least, not lost. So that seems good.

So now there is a $400 model, huh? Sigh. We need to sell a house or two.

[SadieKate]

You can add receivers to a Squeezebox?? So we could install a Sqeezebox on the home computer and upstairs stereo, then add a receiver to something in my office.

http://www.slimdevices.com/pi_receiver.html

[SadieKate]

[ETA: the new Squeezebox Duet does not need a PC turned on, according to the site. I have the slightly older model, without the neat-o color display.]

The website says the 3.0 can be played with your PC turned off also. Have you tried?

http://www.slimdevices.com/pi_squeezebox.html

It looks like you will be able to buy the spiffy remote (the Controller) to use with your existing 3.0. Then you get the cool color screen without buying a whole new setup.

Not that I want to talk you out of anything but I'd feel guilty if I didn't say something.

[bikerz]

Ah - the Squeezebox bug has bitten you! (better than a giant weta bite!)

I'll check out the internet music streaming with the PC off tonight and let you know.

I didn't realize I could get the spiffy remote separately... Hmmm. (My friend recently upgraded to the Duet, and his SB 3.0 might also be available for sale, if I decide to keep mine.)

Receivers: In your office, you'd need an amplifier and a pair of speakers, and then you could get a second SB receiver and plug it into that amp. But the Squeezebox has to have an amplifier and speakers to plug into - think of it like another audio source, like a CD player.

This is so diverting - I was obsessed with it all in November and December. It's even easier to spend money on audio stuff than on bike stuff (especially in the winter!)

[SadieKate]

Hey, Oakleaf! have you tried your Squeezebox 3.0 without the PC turned on?

[Pedal Wench]

It's even easier to spend money on audio stuff than on bike stuff (especially in the winter!)

Tell me about -- I'm a recording engineer, and I freelance in the consumer electronics/technology fields -- I love that stuff!

One thing you might want to think about wrt Internet radio -- it only sounds as good as it's uploaded. So, while your speeds, and the connection speed and bitrates might all be fine, if the station is uploaded at a low rate, it won't sound great. But, in some cases, it will sound as good as your current FM sources, but never as good as CD quality.

[SadieKate]

I knew you'd be posting!

Since the local classical music station is drowned out by several neighboring stations (who must be broadcasting a bit over power, doncha think?), it doesn't take much to have "better quality."

[Pedal Wench]

I knew you'd be posting!

Since the local classical music station is drowned out by several neighboring stations (who must be broadcasting a bit over power, doncha think?), it doesn't take much to have "better quality."

I tried to stay away;)

It should be okay to use with the Bluetooth, and other systems have built-in Internet connections, so you only need a DSL connection. They have ones that are complete 'music systems', or ones that are just the receiver that you plug in as a source to your existing system. However, the Squeezebox looks really kinda cool!

[SadieKate]

and other systems have built-in Internet connections, so you only need a DSL connection. Please explain? Or provide a link to a product for the slow and iggerant?

[OakLeaf]

Hey, Oakleaf! have you tried your Squeezebox 3.0 without the PC turned on?

I hadn't tried it before, but I had to know. Working fine :)

Not sure if you can add stations to the station list, though, or if you're limited to the ones they provide in the "SqueezeNetwork." I think when DH streams WBAI, he does it via his computer.

ETA: just downloaded the new software and firmware, and yes, you can edit the station list.

[Irulan]

maybe I'm missing something but what about surfing Shoutcast for classical, and using a simple free media player like winamp? It's all free, no subscrition or software fees.

I listen to internet radio, non commerical, non stop. I search for music genre via shoutcast, test a few search results out and voila, music to my taste as much as I want it. I have it set up both on a regular pc with speakers and a decent sound card, and also on another computer with an optical sound cable that goes into the home theatre.

http://shoutcast.com/ I've found all sorts of cool stuff - the powerdown bulgarian down tempo station; radio paradise, african stuff... the classical search brings up tons of options.

[SadieKate]

Finding classical music via the internet is no problem at all.

I'd rather not run any software or media player off my work computer, not to mention I can't change the sound card in the computer, and I don't want any cables and speakers on my desk for multiple reasons - clutter and sound quality both.

[Pedal Wench]

Please explain? Or provide a link to a product for the slow and iggerant?

No problem!

http://www.amazon.com/Philips-MCi250-Wireless-Broadband-Internet/dp/B00009RTBU

Bluetooth from your BT-enabled PC (which I think you said was an option):
http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921665333301

And, this could be used just as a receiver to plug into an existing stereo system that has an aux input:
http://www.amazon.com/Philips-SL400i-WiFi-Enabled-Multimedia-Entertainment/dp/B000278KN0/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&s=audio-video&qid=1207667260&sr=1-12


This receiver looks nice too -- can stream from your PC too. Best of both worlds:
http://www.amazon.com/OXX-Digital-Wireless-Internet-Radio/dp/B000W4EC2G/ref=sr_1_20?ie=UTF8&s=audio-video&qid=1207667260&sr=1-20
Hope that helps! To be honest, a few years ago, there were more options when I was writing alot about this category.

[SadieKate]

I only have this to say before taking myself off to a good book, BikerZ sure knows how to spend my money. :eek: :D

Slow her down, girls!

Not that Oakleaf and PedalWench would help put any brakes on her. :cool:

[bikerz]

You're welcome! :D



(A certain person -- who shall remain nameless but has the initials "SK" -- has definitely helped spend a few of my dollars on bike things over the years, so I'm just returning the favor! And helping you do your bit to keep the economy going!)

[OakLeaf]

Oh, and did I mention you need a Garmin Edge 705 too? :D

[SadieKate]

Um, I have a Polar 720si, a Forerunner 305, an Edge 305 and a SPOT GPS. You think that will do for now? Especially since you REALLY have no idea how far amok BikerZ ran.

She's good. She even spent my company's money. :rolleyes:

Now I'm dreaming of CD ripping and I don't even know what it is.

[Pedal Wench]

Now I'm dreaming of CD ripping and I don't even know what it is.

I wrote a column a few years ago on two companies that will even do that for you. One of them had local drop-offs, and you would hand a guy your CD collection, and three days later, he returns with your discs and a DVD with all your music converted to MP3 or AAC files. The other company would send you a box with a CD spindle (like you buy bulk blank discs) and you would send off your collection along with your iPod, and they would load it up, create a backup disc, and send the whole kit-and-caboodle back to you. All for a nice little fee. Spending even more of your $$!


http://www.readytoplay.com/

[SadieKate]

Do they use special equipment or just software? I assumed from something BZ said that it was hardware but no?

Using iTunes for what I little I have on my iPod was painful.

[SadieKate]

Oh, help me . . . . I'm drowning. Now I'm reading about all the file formats. At this point in the conversation with BZ I was well into a pre-dinner double G&T (Saphire of course). I got the concept but not the details.

[SadieKate]

Whew. One all inclusive article. I hope.

http://www.ecoustics.com/tl/21081/

[bikerz]

The way my office pals and I did it was to buy a device from Sony (http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&partNumber=VGPXL1B2) that holds 200 CDs in a carousel, connects to your PC like an external CD drive (which it is) and rips them automatically onto a disk. It was a little finicky to use, and we had to send it back once to Sony for repair because it was out of alignment. It worked for my whole collection (750+ cds), and saved a ton of time, but it only worked for half of Chip's collection, and JP gave up on it completely and did his manually. The CD carousel is not working again, and I might try to send it back to Sony for repair, but since we split the cost, it wasn't that expensive, and it has pretty much served its purpose already. (But I'm not suggesting you get one - they are not very reliable!)

All you really need to rip CDs is a CD drive connected to a computer. You can do them one at a time, and ripping a CD these days does not take very long. It's best if you can have a PC that is doing nothing but ripping, and you just lean over every 2 minutes a drop another CD in the tray. or you could send them out, if you can be without your CDs for a while. Or hire some neighborhood kid to do the ripping for you.

As for formats, I researched and researched, and decided to rip to a lossless format (e.g. flac, wma lossless) instead of a lossy format (mp3, wma lossy, aac) because I didn't want to touch the CDs again when the next "better than mp3" comes out.

Lossy formats achieve the smaller music file size by removing some of the music data before compressing the file, which ultimately affects the sound quality. The loss of quality is not really noticeable on little iPod speakers or in a car stereo, but I really noticed a difference when listening to MP3s on my stereo. You can also get near-CD quality by using a very high bit rate in MP3, but I decided I didn't want any data removed, thank you very much! Especially since disk storage is so incredibly cheap these days, and only getting cheaper.

Lossless formats do not remove any music data, but achieve a smaller size by just using different types of compression. (I'm sure Pedal Wench can explain all this better than I can!). Music players that can read these formats uncompress and re-compress the file as they play it.

So all my CDs are ripped to flac format, which can be played by the Squeezebox, and by many PC music players, including Windows Media Player (with a plug-in). Then I used a great, cheap program called dbPowerAmp to batch convert all the flac files to mp3 on another external drive one weekend, so I can listen to them in my iPod. Piece of cake!

Tagging files and organizing your digital music library are the next big topics - the Squeezebox site has some great articles on tagging classical music that I followed.

You can do all of this for FREE! (Except $30 or so for dbPowerAmp...)

[bikerz]

Whew. One all inclusive article. I hope.

http://www.ecoustics.com/tl/21081/

That's a great article.

It really illustrates the one weak point in all my process, which was using the SONY VGP for the ripping - it is not really a high quality device for the purpose. I had been thinking that I might select the the CDs to which I listen most attentively, and get them professionally ripped, and see if I can tell the difference.

[SadieKate]

Good article yoresef!!

We probably have no more than 250 cds so a pro service might be a good idea for at least the lossless format at 69 cents per and then do your batch conversion for MP3. I'd want to figure out a lossless solution the long run for each CD as I buy it.

MusicShifter (http://www.musicshifter.com/packages.php)had one of the better sites I've found as I've stumbled around the net. They'll do ten for free (http://www.musicshifter.com/free.php)

[bikerz]

That link that Pedal Wench posted is for a place just down in Palo Alto - I'm going to give them a call and find out their prices.

[bikerz]

Here's the page (http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.cgi?BeginnersGuideToClassical) from Squeezebox on tagging classical music

[SadieKate]

ReadytoPlay looks good also. Squeezebox and the links have good info about the metadata for classical which is a challenge.

Have you looked at any of the services that work with Squeezebox? Either MusicShifter or ReadtoPlay talked about Vorbis for metadata.

[Pedal Wench]

The ecoustics article is okay, but two things stand out to me. The first is that it's written by the man who runs a company that rips CDs. So, of course your home system will never measure up... Read that info with a grain of salt.

Second. He mentions the different lossy formats, and the difference in sound quality that you get at different bitrates, but he never mentions the difference in sound between the lossy formats. For the same bitrate (using up the same amount of space on your computer) formats such as AAC and WMA will sound better than MP3. MP3 was the first, and it hasn't improved much. AAC and WMA use newer psychoacoustic models that sound better -- audible at 128kbps.

[SadieKate]

maybe I'm missing something but what about surfing Shoutcast for classical, and using a simple free media player like winamp? It's all free, no subscrition or software fees.Like Pandora and probably other similar sites are blocked by my employer?

[Irulan]

Like Pandora and probably other similar sites are blocked by my employer?


shout cast is not file sharing, it's just catalog of internet radio links based on genre.

[Irulan]

Using iTunes for what I little I have on my iPod was painful.

I absolutely hated using iTunes. Winamp is a really nice alternative. Very easy to use, drag and drop, doesn't do what it thinks you should be doing, I love it for managing my music files.

[SadieKate]

shout cast is not file sharing, it's just catalog of internet radio links based on genre.Thanks, Irulan. I appreciate your attempt to help but you still have to download software (winamp) to use shoutcast and I have no problems find internet radio stations I like by just googling

My employer does not allow non-approved software to be loaded to their computers.

Even streaming radio on my work laptop was going to be a challenge because using the VPN already bogs down the speed so any extra load is unacceptable.

All this means I have to have a separate standalone sytem. I'll consider WinAmp when BikerZ's purchases arrive.:rolleyes:

[Irulan]

LOL, I was going to say you should be able to use the Windows media player for radio, but I guess there's still the streaming issue.

Oh well. I will shut up now and be glad I'm self employed. ;)

[SadieKate]

Yeah, but then you have to be your own bookkeeper, secretary, garbage taker outer, etc. And my gawd, the boss problems! :D

[SadieKate]

Ah, I'm listening to Larry Carlton's "Don't Break my Heart" on the good stereo upstairs via Pandora. Lessee. V started it. Oakleaf and others enabled. BikerZ spent my money. Typical TE behavior. :)

Bubba was impressed with the simplicity of the SqueezeBox. Since the bedroom mini-stereo has a hum to it while turned off, he may be looking for some powered speakers just to hook up to another SB. Put the mini-system, out in the garage with the bike stand.

Talk about a snowball effect. :rolleyes:

[Pedal Wench]

A little late to the party,... but I just found out about Slacker.com. I LOVE it! My column on dvice.com will be about it -- you customize your own radio station for listening online, but they also have a portable device, so you can load it up and plug it into your upstairs system, then just update it whenever you want new tunes. My column goes up late on Thursday afternoon on it.