Etiquette Help

[SadieKate]

Help! What do I tell a 40-something year old that hasn't learned to look and not touch?

We recently moved into a new town where we already had friends who had moved from the old town. One of them was rarely at our old house but now frequently visits at the new. We've discovered that he picks up anything and everything to inspect it. He doesn't appear to understand that some items are fragile, or not finished appropriately to be protected from oily finger prints, or maybe not sturdy enough to be handled, or old, or valuable. . . or . . . or . . . or.

He hasn't actually climbed on anything but he'll reach onto high shelves to pick up a piece of fragile carving to look at it more closely. Being 6' tall, most shelves are within his reach. Yesterday, he rolled around on the carpeted floor of the stair landing a large carved wood owl that at least was strong enough to take the mauling but he could have simply knelt down. He's an incredibly curious guy and I do appreciate his desire for knowledge, but I was taught to look and not touch. If the homeowner picked it up and handed it to me, then and then only was it acceptable to handle it.

How do I tell a grown man to keep his friggin' hands in his pockets? I'm afraid I'm going to really let out a sharp rebuke one of these days after we finally unpack all of our art work. I need to know what to say before I give him a tongue lashing out of impatience.:confused:

One bright note is that unlike an infant he doesn't immediately put everything in his mouth! :eek:

[Brandi]

Here it is easy
"Keep your friggen hands of my stuff"!
i don't think there is any etiquette when it comes to being rude. Either that or you need to educate him on why you can't handle certain things.

[SadieKate]

"Keep your friggen hands of my stuff"!I know, I know! But I was sort of hoping that I could keep this for Plan C if A and B fail.

I just don't know what kind of words to use that will get the idea across without being really mean -- at least until Plan C needs to be used.

[Tuckervill]

well, what I do for 2 year olds is immediately hand them something they *can* touch. If you don't want him ever to touch anything, I can see how it would be rough to even have him in the house. But surely you have art that is better experienced by feel, too?

I like to touch art, too, but I do know you shouldn't touch paintings and fragile things. Wood? I'll touch it without even thinking about it, unless I'm in a museum or something.

Oh, I know! Get a pair of cotton gloves for him to put on when he comes in! Then direct him to the things you wouldn't mind if he handled and keep your body between him and the finer things. :)

Karen

[bikerz]

How about subterfuge?

You could line up a conspirator, who is in on the game and won't take a rebuke personally, and have him/her reach for something in the other person's presence. Then you can say something direct and clear, with no worry about offending anyone's delicate sensibilities. And maybe this guy will hear and get it indirectly...

Or if that fails, maybe you could put some tantalizing (but not valuable) object in reach that is booby-trapped somehow, like maybe it imparts a (mild) electric shock? :eek:

[tulip]

Why are they coming over now and not before? Could you just invite them over less, or have they become good friends? Are they annoying in other ways?

You could just say something like, "I can see you have good taste in doodads, but I would prefer if you just looked at them instead of picking them up."

If he continues, then go with Brandi's excellent suggestion. Or the subterfuge, I like that one too.

EDIT: My stepfather was the director of a college. At times, people would have to wait in his office for some reason or another when he was in another office or something (he wasn't there with them), and since the college was an art school, there was inevitably cool stuff around. He had this box, like a cigar box but artsy, and if you opened it a bunch of confetti flew out, flabergasting the offender and pretty much ensuring that he or she wouldn't be tempted to touch anything else.

[SadieKate]

Ooh, I like the electric shock approach.

Yes, I like to touch wood also, but a fragile Chimayo Tree of Life with individually carved leaves and animals? Obviously delicate, soft, light colored without finish? No way would I touch something like that in someone else's house.

We have no children and very few children ever visit. Our house is filled with artwork. I'd never be able to stop moving if I had to keep my body between him and the art.

[salsabike]

Could you pick a time well before he does this next (so you're not actively irritated) and just say something like, "I really like you, and it's nice to see you more often. I'm glad you like my art and objects but I would SO appreciate it if you would look at them without handling them"? Period, that's all. I'm guessing that would do it for most folks, and it sounds like he hasn't any idea that it might be bothering you.

[tulip]

Remind him that this is VISUAL art, not TACTILE art.

He's probably ADD and just can't keep still. I bet he doesn't even realize he's doing it, but if you ask him to stop, I bet he'll make an effort.

[SadieKate]

Why are they coming over now and not before? Could you just invite them over less, or have they become good friends? Are they annoying in other ways? Because we lived 20 miles away from him in California so he came over for the most part just long enough to stage a carpool on the way to rides. Now he lives in the same town and drops by frequently, or the rides start/stop at our house.

He's a dear and has a heart of gold but his hands are just constantly touching and feeling everything.

[SadieKate]

Remind him that this is VISUAL art, not TACTILE art. That's good! I can say that with a smile and the right look the first time.

Plan B) I can remind him nicely.
Plan C) Salsa's "I'm glad you like my art and objects but I would SO appreciate it if you would look at them without handling them"?

After that, Brandi's plan with both cannons. :mad:

I like the confetti idea too. Kind of hard to cover your tracks.

[Zen]

He had this box, like a cigar box but artsy, and if you opened it a bunch of confetti flew out, flabergasting the offender and pretty much ensuring that he or she wouldn't be tempted to touch anything else.

Ooooh, I think that's the best. Maybe you can find something here (http://www.zymetrical.com/subcatmfgprod.asp?0=208&1=210&2=-1)

[Blueberry]

Sk-

Maybe just point out when he reaches for something that handling isn't good for it? i.e. Isn't this doodad cool - the only problem with it is it's really better to look at than to touch.

Otherwise - that just sucks. I would probably want someone to say something to me, though - rather than just all of a sudden not getting invites.

CA

[jobob]

Well, look at it this way, the longer you put it off, the more potentially embarrassing it might be when you finally do say something.

so sayeth the person who still hasn't sent you the book she promised you weeks ago

[smilingcat]

Hi Sadiekate,

I too have collection of artwork. Mostly pottery pieces. When people want to pick it up, I politely tell them in matter of fact tone to please don't touch. look is okay. I also tell them that the pieces are museum quality (few are true) others are gallery quality. Ususally this leads to how much for that piece. I tell them I can't afford to replace it.

If they still want to touch it then I will raise my voice "NO. DON'T TOUCH" Worst offenders have been other potters. :mad:

Smilingcat

[SadieKate]

Jobob, I know, I know. That's why I'm trying to figure out a gentle but clear way to get the message across before I say it in anger.

Don't worry about the book. I bought it Friday when I needed some escapism reading.

Smilingcat, I know what you mean. I've got the museum quality stuff (all inherited) behind glass doors but I'm sure he'll want to look some day -- and looking involves touching for him. So I've got to get him headed off at the pass very , very soon.

[sgtiger]

Or if that fails, maybe you could put some tantalizing (but not valuable) object in reach that is booby-trapped somehow, like maybe it imparts a (mild) electric shock? :eek:

Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner! :D


In all seriousness, just call him out on it.

Steps:
1) Ask him politely and in a friendly manner to not handle the artwork. Most of the time this is enough. Most people get self-conscious and stop after having something like that pointed out to them. exp: "Please do not touch the artwork." Better yet make it an "I" statement: "I'd really appreciate it if you wouldn't touch those things." Add a gentle head shake or something - whatever comes naturally to you.

2) Ask a bit more firmly but turn it around on yourself and act embarassed that you're pointing it out. "I'm really sorry, but I have this thing about people touching the artwork." "I know this is a bit OCD/anal(wording depends on company, relationship w/person, how comfortable you are with the language, etc.) of me, but if you could please not touch that. Maybe add something like: "It really irks me for some reason." or "It irks me because...." Then explain why the oils and acids from his fingers might not be the best for it or that the object is too delicate to be handled. Whatever is appropriate.

3) Show your irritation. He oviously doesn't get it and needs to know that this is a no-no. Tell him off: "I can't believe you really don't friggin' get it - DO NOT TOUCH! "Lay off already!" Of course, don't be surprised if he never comes back with this step, but maybe the stress of keeping track of his whereabouts is not worth having him as a friend.

So much depends on your friendship with the guy and if you'd like that relationship to continue.

For example, if this were my BFF, I could just start with step 3 and she'd understand and file it under "Oh Sg really hates that, it makes her b*tchy. I won't do that around her" and we would go on with our friendship but she'd call me out for acting like a @$&. Although, out of respect/love I usually ask her nicely if she's doing something that irritates me.

[Tuckervill]

Ooh, I like the electric shock approach.

Yes, I like to touch wood also, but a fragile Chimayo Tree of Life with individually carved leaves and animals? Obviously delicate, soft, light colored without finish? No way would I touch something like that in someone else's house.

We have no children and very few children ever visit. Our house is filled with artwork. I'd never be able to stop moving if I had to keep my body between him and the art.

Yeah, I wouldn't touch the tree of life like that, either. This guy really doesn't have much sense, does he?

Maybe if you'd only have to run the blockade once for him to get the message.

Usually I prefer the direct approach, though...."These are fragile, please don't touch. Thanks!"

Karen

[Grog]

I'm also of the direct school, or, rather: just plain blunt.

The first time he would have picked up something and it bothered me, I would have said: "Would you mind not touching the art work?" (or, in case it's unclear whether he'll understand what "art work" encompasses: "Would you mind not touching what's on the shelves?"

Or: "Hey, a tall guy like you, surely you can stick your head close enough to the sculpture without having to pick it up, do you?"

If I saw some level of offense I might add, as suggested above: "It's not about you, but I'm a bit obsessive about this... I had a [friend, brother-in-law, friend's husband...] break a super rare [insert fancy name of some art work here] and it could not be repaired, so now I'm really obsessive about them." Add, for fun: "My shrink is dealing with this issue with me but in the meantime please don't touch or I'll send you the bill of my analyst!..."

:D

[Geonz]

People who haven't figured out social rules like that generally don't get offended easily, either. They don't perceive the way you cringe and wince when they're handling... they don't know why they aren't better liked.

HOnestly, you could be doing the fellow a *huge* favor to tell him - he may then think twice at somebody else's house.

[SadieKate]

I think I was so shocked that he was picking stuff up that I didn't say anything and now I'm just in a quandary.


Or: "Hey, a tall guy like you, surely you can stick your head close enough to the sculpture without having to pick it up, do you?" I like this! The guy isn't stupid, and he does get humor and puns so I know he's quick with words. I'd like to say something pointed but humorous the first time just to give him the opportunity to say "whoops, sorry" and not have a huge black cloud hanging over the relationship.

Bubba didn't see that the friend was rolling the carved owl on the floor the other day. When I told him about it last night, he was a bit incensed. So Bubba may take the more direct approach :rolleyes: and I'll add the iron fist in a velvet glove approach.:p

[Trek420]

Could the wonder poodle be trained as an art guard-dog? ;)

[Starfish]

I'm with SGTiger and some of the other posters here with the kind, direct, firm approach.

It's matter of fact. It is not mean, *****y, etc, to simply ask for what you want in your own home. Don't anticipate his reaction and try to prepare for all the possible outcomes. Just be relaxed, brief, and direct. That usually helps me take my own drama out of it so that I can more easily be friendly and direct regardless of the response that ensues (if any does...half the time I have borrowed trouble without need, by anticipating).

ETA: Oops, LOL, I forgot to edit myself, and got edited. I guess you can tell the *****y above was meant to be b****y. :-)

[SadieKate]

Could the wonder poodle be trained as an art guard-dog? ;)As of Friday, the Wonder Poodle is chasing dream bunnies to his heart's content.

[Zen]

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb14/zencentury/LOLbadmannersowl.jpg

[shootingstar]

Remind him that this is VISUAL art, not TACTILE art.

He's probably ADD and just can't keep still. I bet he doesn't even realize he's doing it, but if you ask him to stop, I bet he'll make an effort.

I like the visual vs. tactile art..it is valid..up to a certain point. Some wood and soapstone pieces are lovely just to stroke lightly and briefly.

Never had a visitor like your friend. He seems like a person who would be interested in stories of the artist/background to the piece of artwork. We have some fragile pieces ...some unusual...which do require being up close to the object. There have been some situations we just couldn't have a 2-yr. old visitor running around at our place, unless we spent 1-2 hrs. putting away objects. But it hasn't been like this all the time... only in last few years.

[Trek420]

He seems like a person who would be interested in stories of the artist/background to the piece of artwork.

Just had an idea. Could you hand him a book? "yes, yes it is a nice wooden fragile hand made owl, isn't it. And HERE, here's a book about the artist. Sit, read." :D

Another etiquette question; how do you respond when asked if you have an "extra" bike to loan .... to someone you don't know .... or know how well they ride .... for several months ... and you know it won't be secured in the home :confused:

Is the answer;
A: "no" or...
B: "he]] no. But thank you for thinking of me and here are some affordable shops thank you very much".

[KnottedYet]

Plan B.

Absolutely. (but softer on the "he]] no")

To the OT: I have a friend whose child has a form of autism. Lay out the rules clearly and simply. Sometimes the subtle social cues are simply indeciferable and direct instructions work best.

[Trek420]

That's what I thought. ;) Thanks for the reality check :p

[jobob]

Good one Zen!!

ICHCheezburger rulz. :cool:

[Zen]

"No, but why don't you check the Goodwill/Rescue Mission/salvation Army/Craigslist for something cheap?"

[Trek420]

"Yes! And you have an extra $_____.__ I can borrow while you borrow the bike because after your friend with no detectable cycling skills has it for 3-4 months I'll need to fix, tune-up, true-the wheels, clean, overhaul, replace parts and maybe just maybe replace the whole irreplaceable full custom bike, right?" :cool:

[OakLeaf]

To the OT: I have a friend whose child has a form of autism. Lay out the rules clearly and simply. Sometimes the subtle social cues are simply indeciferable and direct instructions work best.

The first thing I thought of when I read the OP was Asperger's, also. I'd agree with a direct approach.

[SadieKate]

To the OT: I have a friend whose child has a form of autism. Lay out the rules clearly and simply. Sometimes the subtle social cues are simply indeciferable and direct instructions work best.


The first thing I thought of when I read the OP was Asperger's, also. I'd agree with a direct approach.Sheesh, I have no evidence that anyone has every given him the rules. I have no idea what his parents are like or if he has any other friends with fine art in the house. Let's not, once again, assume the worst until you know him personally, OK?

[KnottedYet]

Let's not, once again, assume the worst until you know him personally, OK?

Excuse me?

I merely shared my experience with someone who likes to pick up things. When one's subtle cues don't get the message across (for what ever reason, in my case this child had a very clear reason) laying the rules out clearly takes the stress off everyone.

[Trek420]

I think "it's never too late to have a happy childhood" So he can learn now to enjoy art. That's what art is for, to be enjoyed, to see and be seen. It's not there to match my sofa or for guests to be awed by the value of our collection and that I own a _____ .

Art's to see and enjoy and mos important to make you think.

At the same time unless it's sand sculpture :rolleyes: it's to be protected so that future generations can see it.

Maybe he did not have art in the home growing up, or access to museum. But he had toys and stuff. So he may feel that "it's in the home it's stuff and a toy and I can play with it."

Is there a museum in your area that you like or a gallery? Can you take him there and talk about art where things are somewhat protected. "I think this is good art but what do you think? why do you like this piece or that one better? what does it make you feel? how do you think it was made?"

Is there an open studio, not pottery or glass blowing or :eek: outdoor sculpture, wooden outdoor instalations, something tough.

He might not know how to enjoy art or that he can without rolling it on the carpet, or what art he can roll on the carpet. This can be a further bond of your friendship and a new world for him.

I reflect on the OP that you mentioned something along the lines of "if it's like this now how's it going to be when we unpack all the art?" Not going to quote it but sumthin' like that.

To me it comes down to which do you like more? Your friend or the art?

He's 6' sumthin so it's not as if you can put the "good stuff" beyond his reach :p. Choices include that you keep your friend as he is today and keep art packed, or valuable and or fragile stuff in another part of the house, or out of reach or .... get more durable art :rolleyes: or have the heart to heart chat.

But I'd teach him to enjoy art too. I think he'll learn from you and you may see art in a new way too. It's kinda like teaching someone to ride who does not enjoy that :)

Duck on Wheels who was the artist that our mutual brother and the artists son were playing in the attic and running around on the still drying paintings? Wasn't that Ad Rheinhardt? So there's probably a painting in the Gugenheim with faint brother of the Duck footprints :p

Art happens, enjoy the art.

Trek-C.C.A.C class of 1983-420

PS: I'm sorry to hear about the wonder-poodle :(

PPS: there's also the chance that he's just very tactile. Some people are more visual, others more verbal ... this could just be the way he learns. A trip to see sculpture may be just the ticket for him to learn to love and appreciate art.

[Pedal Wench]

Sorry about the wonder poodle. :(

I would go with the direct approach. My friends all know how I feel about my bikes -- they don't go on roof racks or hitch racks either. [edit: the bikes, not the friends :)] They all know and understand that it's important to me, while not to them.

I vote for the direct approach. "Hey, I know you like to touch the artwork, but it's very precious and valuable to me, and it makes me nervous to have it handled." Then turn it around, "I hate to even touch it or move it myself!"

How can anyone argue with that?

[OakLeaf]

Sheesh, I have no evidence that anyone has every given him the rules. I have no idea what his parents are like or if he has any other friends with fine art in the house. Let's not, once again, assume the worst until you know him personally, OK?

Whoa.... easy there. I agree it's a little facile for me to throw out diagnoses online, and I apologize for that.

But there was no "assuming the worst," OK. For one thing, all I said was it's what I thought of. And, if you've ever known anybody with Asperger's (chances are you have and just didn't know it) their company can be very enjoyable. It's a developmental disorder that has nothing to do with their parents, and it's hardly a worst case scenario.

I was just echoing what others have said, that when someone doesn't automatically understand how their behavior might be offensive to others, indirect approaches have a high chance of going right over their head.

'Kay?

[Veronica]

Geez SK, you should have just told me you didn't want me touching your stuff. :p

I think the kind, but direct approach will work with your friend.

V.

[Blueberry]

SK - really sorry about the Wonder Poodle:(:(

[OakLeaf]

SK - so sorry about the Wonder Poodle. (((((hugs)))))

[SadieKate]

Whoa.... easy there. I agree it's a little facile for me to throw out diagnoses online, and I apologize for that . . .

I was just echoing what others have said, that when someone doesn't automatically understand how their behavior might be offensive to others, indirect approaches have a high chance of going right over their head.

'Kay?Thank you very much, Oakleaf.

I don't know yet that he doesn't automatically understand how his behavior is different. I haven't had the opportunity to try the "kind, but direct approach" but based on past history with him it works. I couldn't articulate the "kind" part and that is why I asked the question in the first place. I needed the right words.

There were many great ideas in the first responses which answered my very simple question.

And people behave differently in museums and galleries than they do in a friend's home as their perception is that the rules are different. He simply needs a kind explanation of the rules.

Thank you all for the kind condolences for my Wonder Poodle. I was fortunate to have had his friendship for twelve wonderful years. OK, gotta go find the Kleenex box.

[indigoiis]

"If you pick it up, you have to dust it."

and hand him a dust cloth.

[Trek420]

"and if you break it you bought it"

and take his charge cards :cool: deed to the house .... pink slip to the car ....

[Duck on Wheels]

Duck on Wheels who was the artist that our mutual brother and the artists son were playing in the attic and running around on the still drying paintings? Wasn't that Ad Rheinhardt? So there's probably a painting in the Gugenheim with faint brother of the Duck footprints :p.

I don't remember a running-around-in-the-attic episode, but I do remember playing hide and seek in a garage-studio with brother, son-of-artist and son of another artist (André I think that kid's name was; lived up on Sonoma Mt. very near the McChesneys). I think I was the one who had the bright idea of climbing up to hide on one of the shelves, placed a hand over the edge, and splat ... right into a drying oil painting. So maybe there's a DoW handprint on something in the Gugenheim. Now who was that artist ...? Mom took me to see an exhibit of his work in the Sonoma County Museum a couple years back. Ralph something? Mom would remember.

[Trek420]

Oooh, maybe it was Mac? Is that how he started doing the splatter patterns?

www.metroactive.com/papers/sonoma/06.22.05/mcchesney-0525.html

Anywho, SK. When's the next time your friend comes over?

Let us know how it goes.

[jobob]

:confused:

:confused:

:confused:

[jobob]

Oooh, adroit little veer back to topic.

[snapdragen]

Oh hai!

SK -- having suffered a number of broken treasures, I feel your pain. Smack him with a newspaper and say NO! BAD MAN! :D

[sgtiger]

Snap-LOL!<snorting sparking water> If that doesn't work, SK, I'm afraid he's hopeless.

[jobob]

Hee hee. I think I've had the pleasure of meeting the gent in question, and he seems trainable. :cool:

[SadieKate]

Oh hai!

SK -- having suffered a number of broken treasures, I feel your pain. Smack him with a newspaper and say NO! BAD MAN! :DI bow to your ingenuity. Since he frequently asks me to save newspaper article, it will be tres easy to have one handy.:D

[SadieKate]

Hee hee. I think I've had the pleasure of meeting the gent in question, and he seems trainable. :cool:Yup. A couple of you have (one spent an entire day riding with him). Considering where he's employed, I suspect that he knows plenty of social boundaries.

[snapdragen]

Yup. A couple of you have (one spent an entire day riding with him). Considering where he's employed, I suspect that he knows plenty of social boundaries.

Boundaries? We don't need no stinkin' boundaries.....

[withm]

The next time he picks up something, say in your best shocked voice, "George! (or whatever his name is) I KNOW your parents taught you to look with your eyes, NOT with your hands.

That ought to embarass him right quick and put an end to the problem.

That's what MY parents always said to us anyway. Seemed to work.

[SadieKate]

Good one! :D

I can do school marm voice.