Help! Is it me or is it the brakes? and should I get an upgrade of some sort?

[teawoman]

Last fall I took a spill on a hill. I was on the hoods, couldn't stop at the bottom (or switch to the drops--was afraid I'd fall over), hit obstacle, flew off bike, broke ribs.

I seem to have very little braking power from my hoods, even on little hills.

Several people in my bike club who saw the whole thing say I should be able to get much better brake leverage from the hoods than I did. People I've described it to say I should have been in the drops all the way down the hill.

I don't want to ride in the drops every time I run into even a small hill, but it's starting to look as if that'll be the case...I know once I get back on the bike I'll be paranoid as all get out.


Here are my bike specifications: Giant OCR1w http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-US/bikes/road/1243/29268/

I was under the impression that Shimano 105 were good (or good enough) components, but that the Tektro caliper are cheep and cheesy for the setup. Others say I should get new brake pads and that will do it. Still others say it's an adjustment that needs to be made to the levers/calipers/whatever.

I am taking the bike into the shop to have them look at it, but it's driving me nuts not knowing whether it's me or the bike.

Someone else posted here saying that she had the same problem with the OCR1w and they couldn't fix it, but I can't remember who that was.

I'm preparing for a season of hill paranoia :o:eek:

[mimitabby]

don't know about your brakes but it sounds like the reach is too far for you!
when you go to the bike shop, have them check the way the bike and you fit.

[VeloVT]

Regardless of whether or not you have relatively better grip on the brakes in the drops, you definitely **should** be able to brake adequately from the hoods.

It's possibly a reach issue. It also could be a brake cable issue. I have seen brakes get really hard when a bike was put away wet for some time and the cables weren't routed that well to begin with. The lube dried up and the levers felt like one of those hand-strengthening things. Stopping from the hoods was actually sketchy and difficult. We ran new cables with better routing, and lubed them, and the brakes were restored to normal responsiveness (so I could get plenty of brake power from the hoods).

I was going to write this like "I had a friend..." but shoot, I admit it, I put my commuter away wet and left it for a few weeks over Christmas break. I promise not to do it again :D.

Edit: oh, seeing SK's post... we sandpapered the pads too, they had gotten a bit glazed. And I cleaned my rims with rubbing alcohol. They were grimy, partly with dirt but mostly with what looked like brake pad residue. Riding in wet weather is hard on every part of the bike, best to avoid it when possible. But in my case these repairs solved the problem and my brakes are fine again.

And reading SK's post again... poorly adjusted calipers could definitely make it hard to brake from hoods too. Really either way could make it difficult -- throw too long or throw too short.

[luckeeesmom]

When I was looking on the road bike review site after getting my Giant OCR2 I recall reading something about the brake pads not being great and that people had replaced them and got a much more responsive stop.

I am new to riding and probably not the expert on all this but when I ride I feel like the bike doesn't stop as quickly as it should without putting a great deal of pressure on the levers. I've only had my bike a couple weeks so I figure that next time I need break pads I will try a different brand to see if it makes a difference.

[tulip]

Sounds like the reach is too far (have you had your bike fitted to you) and/or a brake size issue. Do you have small hands? Small brake levers are made. The fitting should indicate if you need smaller levers.

I hope you feel better soon.

[SadieKate]

It could be bad pads; it could be glazed pads; it could be poorly adjusted calipers and/or cables; it could be dirty rims (with road grease). So many possibilities.

Take it to the bike shop and talk to them.

[teawoman]

Aww thanks...you all are so kind and comforting. Why I love posting here. :o Our first club ride of the year is this weekend. I'm excited, but paranoid. I think the hills are rolling rather than steep where we are going, so it should be ok for a first time out in the Spring. :p

I just got back and she's in the shop now. The bike is a really good fit, judging from how comfortable I've been riding it (and they are short reach levers)...we are going to try moving the hoods/bar around a bit when I go back, but first they are going to check everything and he said possibly change the pads too.

I do love my LBS: they take lots of time with me (took a loooong time with my fit) and explain stuff and don't condescend.


p.s.
When I was looking on the road bike review site after getting my Giant OCR2 I recall reading something about the brake pads not being great and that people had replaced them and got a much more responsive stop.

This is a bit of a relief to hear: thanks! It's frustrating, tho. I otherwise *love* the bike.

[spokewench]

You should definitely be able to brake with 105 brakes. The gals all have great ideas, but yes, take it to the bike shop. Dirty rims, badly set up brake pads, worn out brake pads, stretched cables, can all cause the bike not to stop well.

Next time, if you are going down hill and need to stop and it doesn't seem to be working well enough, check behind you make sure you can pull into traffic, and move out of the way of the obstacle. Steering out of a problem can help immensely. I've done it many times. Do not fixate on what you think you are going to hit. Look away from it and you probably won't hit it. Same principle as riding a mountain bike, do not look at the rock that you want to miss. If you look at it, you will hit it.

Take your bike in and ask the bike shop to look at it, fix it if need be, and tell you what kinds of things can affect the stopping power of your brakes, i.e. grease on the rims, etc. Hope that helps.

spoke

[SadieKate]

How about an open quick release? :rolleyes: :)

[teawoman]

Next time, if you are going down hill and need to stop and it doesn't seem to be working well enough, check behind you make sure you can pull into traffic, and move out of the way of the obstacle. Steering out of a problem can help immensely. I've done it many times. Do not fixate on what you think you are going to hit. Look away from it and you probably won't hit it. Same principle as riding a mountain bike, do not look at the rock that you want to miss. If you look at it, you will hit it.

Take your bike in and ask the bike shop to look at it, fix it if need be, and tell you what kinds of things can affect the stopping power of your brakes, i.e. grease on the rims, etc. Hope that helps.

spoke

Thanks. It was more a question of which of several obstacles at the bottom of the hill, including trees and people clustered together, could I hit with least injury to everybody? There was hardly any room to maneuver! :o:p

[SadieKate]

Pick soft and squishy.:o

[Starfish]

I don't know if this makes any difference...but I noticed the specs on the website said the shifters were short reach, but the brake calipers were long reach? I wonder if there is any reason why this combo is not made to work well together? Just a question...I don't know what I'm talking about! :-)

[SadieKate]

Short reach brake levers are sized for small hands.

Long reach calipers are freqently used to accomodate larger tires and fenders. It's the drop from the pivot bolt to the rim.

They are compatible.

That said all calipers are not made equally and some are stiffer than others. Dual pivot vs single pivot can make a difference also.

[Grog]

I agree about sending the bike to the shop etc., but, really:

When it's downhill and moderately fast or faster, I go down in the drops. Braking from the hoods has nowhere near the same stability and power.

This being said, my knowledge of this matter is purely theoretical: I never brake down hills!!! :D :eek:

[OakLeaf]

Pick soft and squishy.:o

For the target, not the brakes ;)

[SadieKate]

One more thing I've never seen us talk about on this forum (or at least don't remember) and that is crappy brake cable housing.

All cable housing is not the same. Campy, Shimano, Avid and Nokon (to name a few) are very stiff and may be lined which means that you lose less efficiency in the system as you compress the cable. A lot of the off-brand stuff is very flimsy and causes mushy braking. Much of the pretty colored housing is this flimsy stuff. Many times a less-than quality shop looking to save a few cents will stock this cheap stuff by the roll and use it when tuning up or building up bikes.

Long story I'll avoid, but a friend borrowed a FS mtb bike from me and, before returning it, took it to a mechanic friend at REI where she was moonlighting at the time. Her intentions were good to have it all tuned and spiffed up before returning it to me. Doofas brain mechanic pulled off my very expensive, stiff and sealed Avid Flak Jackets and replaced with mushy crap housing "because the cables were too short." Well, the mechanic forgot that we had temporarily put a longer stem on the bike just for the friend to test the bike. The brake levers would immediately bottom out with this cheap housing. Cost me a lot of money and effort to re-cable my brakes as Avid Flak Jackets aren't a quick install.

Anyway, one more thing to consider in the efficiency of your brakes.

[Starfish]

SK, good call. Even new cables every year can help, let alone housing. Thank you for this reminder...this is the kind of thing that makes me consider whether or not to get a new bike, or just dump a bunch of dough into new components and all the spiffy things like this.

[Eden]

My old bike had Tektro calipers on it and my personal opinon of them, is that they are crap.....

When I got my new bike, which admittedly was a big step up, and had DA brakes I was AMAZED at how smooth and secure braking felt. With the old bike it felt like a gamble.... the brakes were stiff and grabby, which made it too easy to skid (which happens if the rear one grabs - and that did happen because it took a lot of initial force to get them to make contact...)

You can try rerunning the cabling, but I'd just replace the calipers if I were you and you are planning to keep the bike for the long term. I've heard that there's even a noticable difference bewteen 105 and Ultegra, and for better braking to go with the Ultegra (I don't know about this personally though, so it's hearsay..)

Now I did put Tektro canti's on my cross bike and those work great, but the cheap@ss calipers that you find on a lot of entry level road bikes I don't like one little bit.

Oh - and RIDE IN YOUR DROPS DOWN HILLLS! and its not just for braking that you should do this. OK, if its a very short little hill I'll let you slide, but really you should do this and get used to it. You are more stable, even if you don't feel like it at first, when you get your center of gravity lower. You can corner better and brake better. I promise you will get used to switching and it won't make you fall down.

[smilingcat]

I had a thread not too long ago about poor braking with my old old shimano 600 brake calipers. It was a single pivot system. I started a thread because I bumped into a back of a car on one occasion and another time I nearly crashed into a side of a pickup as it was turning into a driveway. I could have avoided hitting both of them had my brakes were better. I had replaced the 20 year old pads with new DA/Ultegra brake pads but they couldn't grip enough with the single pivot caliper.

I did replace it with dual pivot SRAM force brake about a week ago. Oh boy!! Huge difference. The dual pivot system wasn't grabby but strong enough that I could lock up my wheels. I feel lot safer :)

And yes the cable housing makes a difference. I also use stainless steel cable. I only use DA cable housing not some cheap stuff. You get what you pay paid for. DA housing doesn't compress under load and internally they have thick high quality teflon sleeve to allow the cable to slide smoothly inside. You don't need to oil the stainless steel cable when you use with DA housing. If anything, don't lube the cable because it just makes it gummy.

My road bike use all SRAM Force. My TT bike uses all SRAM Force except the brake lever. There, I use Carbon Tektro brake lever (so cheap '$' I couldn't pass it up ). caliper is SRAM Force.

You can mix brake lever and brake caliper. There are all compatible because there is no indexing...

I'm sure the dual pivot 105 is good enough. You may want to have it properly adjusted, new brake pads... Have your LBS go over it.

oh my experience are shimano 600, 105, ultegra, DA, SRAM Force, Campy Centaur. 600 is vintage at the time it was good now it falls short compared to up to date component. 105 was pretty good for serious recreational rider. Same with Centaur. ultegra is really nice. DA if you got $$ and SRAM Force is good but I think you can do better with Ultegra money wise.

smilingcat

[ttaylor508]

I had problems with my Giant OCR 1 brakes. We tried to upgrade, but were limited to what we could do because I think they were long reach calipers. In doing some research to try to solve the issue, I found this review in Bicycle magazine: http://www.bicycling.com/biketown/Giant_OCR.html that says the Giant has a problem with stopping. The only upgrade we could make was with the pads, which did help a bit. I ended up selling the bike and bought a Specialized Ruby Expert. The difference in braking power is really amazing. I was always so paranoid on the giant that I wasn't going to be able to stop in time and I have never had that fear with the Specialized. I will be curious what your lbs says for your option with upgrades, so please update with their advice.

[aicabsolut]

I think 105 calipers are pretty crappy. I often encounter a stoplight at the bottom of a very steep hill---one where I need to stop while still on a steep grade usually and that's bad enough that I have to be extra careful about cleat/shoe slippage. I brake early and often, and my hands still hurt by the time I get stopped there. I brake from the hoods for a more stable dismount. My reach to the brakes is fine. I couldn't imagine going with calipers even worse than 105. Every time I hit that hill and have to stop (nearly every training ride) I wish I had at least Ultegra calipers.

That said, unless you were really bombing down the hill and hit the brakes too late, you still should've been able to stop with your setup, even though it may have been hard. This makes me inclined to agree with those that say you ought to reevaluate your reach to the levers from the hoods and how tight the brakes are. This doesn't mean your brakes are too loose. In fact, I feel I get better braking with slightly loose brakes, because I can really grab the lever tightly instead of only getting it to depress a little bit before the pads make contact--I can apply more force that way. You can get short reach 105 hoods (kind of a waste) or you can just put wedges into the hoods so that the brakes are closer to you. Being sure the hoods are positioned well on the bars for you, that the bars are rotated where the reach is comfortable in both hoods and drops, and also having bars designed for smaller hands will go a long way towards giving you braking stability without changing the levers up at all. If all that is ok, go with better calipers and pads for sure.

[spokewench]

Thanks. It was more a question of which of several obstacles at the bottom of the hill, including trees and people clustered together, could I hit with least injury to everybody? There was hardly any room to maneuver! :o:p

If it's people yell like you know what, and then run them over! :D