new bike panic/remorse (mainly panic)

[RoadBunner]

This is going to be long so hang on...

Back story...I spent a whole day at two shops trying out the Onix Dama (with stock bars) and the Trek Madone. I knew the Dama didn't feel 100% comfortable and the woman who was helping me even said that it fit but was on the larger side of a good fit (she recommended the Madone). The Trek felt awesome. If there had been another 1.5 hours in the store's day I would have bought it and spent the time to get all the accessories and jazz added on. Decided I didn't want to rush that process and was going to call in the morning to reserve the Trek and then go back and pick it up.

Overnight I was thinking about it and felt that I didn't really ask good questions about the Dama's fit. The Dama has Ultegra SL which I could definitely appreciate over the Trek's majority 105. I liked the look of the Dama more as well. The prices were pretty close and I really felt the Dama was a better purchase.

Went to another LBS who suggested putting smaller handlebars on the Dama. He showed them to me, and definitely this would bring the reach in about 2 cm. They wouldn't do it without my putting a deposit to buy the bike because of the labor. I asked what would happen if they switched it out and I didn't like the feel. He said they'd just charge about $20 for labor which I felt was fair.

I ended up paying for the bike, went to run some errands, then came back to try it out. It felt pretty good. Here's where I made my mistake...I barely rode the thing! Maybe 10 minutes up and down the street. Declared it much improved (it was, but I guess not perfect) and proceeded into the whirlwind of picking out all things now necessary for the discount price they give you when you buy a bike. I do remember saying I still felt a little bit too far out and they mentioned adding shims, perhaps tilting the handlebars up, and maybe shortening the stem (it's now at 80mm and they thought it would get twitchy below that).

I brought the bike home. Haven't ridden it much because I don't have shoes yet but I've done A LOT of sitting on it and I'm pretty much convinced that as-is it is not the bike for me.

My boyfriend says I look fine on it and I just am not used to road geometry. He says once I get riding it will all be great and I'll be glad it has more aggressive geometry. But in my mind I remember what that Trek felt like and this is not as good.

I called the LBS today and made an appointment to go in Monday to get the shims in and tweak the stem. But the more I think about it, the more I'm scared I made the wrong decision. This is really depressing as I spent a lot of time researching and visiting shops.

The store had a nice "No refunds, store credit only" sign taped on the register (though this was never verbally told to me) but on their website it says 30 day guarantee or your money back. The Onix store does not sell Treks. I'm more than willing to pay a bit for their labor if this doesn't work out and will keep all the purchases (helmet, pedals, etc) I made from them (am also willing to pay back the percentage off they gave me because I had bought a bike from them) so this won't be a total wash for them.

So am I being totally insane? I know I should hang cool til Monday and see if the fit can be improved (I really want to keep this bike more than the Trek), but I feel that if it doesn't live up to what the Trek felt like, I am always going to feel like I made the wrong decision. It probably plays a little into it that I felt the Trek LBS was much more caring than the store I ended up getting the Onix from. I got a better fit for my test-ride Trek than for the Onix even after I bought the bike. The Onix store loves their tape measures and looking at my measurements to set up the bike but they don't seem interested about seeing me on the bike after they tweak it (this may be part of the reason I am freakin' out thinking the thing doesn't fit)

As I sit on the bike, I feel that if they shorten the stem to 60 mm my hands would be in a more comfortable place, but I've read if you have to go too short like that you're probably on the wrong frame and the handling degrades.

Help! Can the Onix fit be salvaged? Should I be thinking of ways to sell it :eek: so I can get the Trek because I feel that the LBS won't be taking it back? Hang it on the wall as expensive art! Egad!

[alpinerabbit]

I know the feeling.
I've had it twice now...
I've woken up at night worrying about cassettes...

You can take it back to the store and see what they can do for you, and if you are not satisfied, politely and calmly ask if you can return the bike (seeing there is a different wording on the contract and in the store). If they only give you credit, can they order in a size smaller?

If you can't exchange - instead of a shorter stem, I had a steeper angle installed on my overlong bike #1.

Saddle position - has it been moved enough forward? However, there are limits to this (i.e. when your kneecaps are forward of the pedal axle)

To be honest: after 2.5 years I decided to sell it, mainly because I wanted aerobars for tris - there was no way this was going to work.

[VeloVT]

It sounds like they didn't do a very thorough job of fitting you? A good fitting should take at least 1 -- 1.5 hours, with plenty of observation of you pedaling on the trainer -- on the hoods, on the drops, etc. In addition to their observation, they should be willing to try different stems, etc, as you direct. If you didn't get this from the shop when you bought the bike, you should make an appointment to go back. Most shops will either include a fitting with purchase of a new bike or will at least give you a discount. This doesn't mean that you might not want to tweak things even after the fitting, but it should give you a better baseline than it sounds like you have. Did they have the Orbea in the next size down (or do they have a different model Orbea with similar geometry in the next size down)? Might be worth trying it for comparison.

Good luck :o.

[Tuckervill]

Isn't there the buyer's remorse clause, where you have 72 hours to return with no penalty? It's worth a shot. Do keep all the stuff and do offer to pay for the labor, and find out if they can order a smaller one. But I think you should return it TODAY to have the best chance.

Karen

[kermit]

You have obviously given the bike purchase alot of thought and research. The bike you got is much nicer, components wise than the Trek. Did you spend as much time riding the Trek as the new bike? Every bike is different, and you just might need a little tweeking. Give yourself some credit and don't second guess your decision. Tell the bike shop your concerns and give them a chance to take it back. If they refuse then work them for the best fit you can get. I think a shorter stem will still give you the handling you need. Saddle position and the pedals will help you get where you need to be. If you absolutely hate it, take pictures of it and have it professionally boxed up. Put it on road bike review classifieds for two bucks, and ebay. Someone will buy it and go get something else. I've gone through two and it's always a work in progress. Good luck.

[KnottedYet]

Can you take the Trek for another test ride before you give up on the Onix?

You mentioned you're going by what you remember the Trek feeling like, maybe another test ride, now that you know the Onix better, would help solidify those feelings.

I get buyers' remorse all the time. (Usually if I take another good look at what I *didn't* choose I end up losing the remorse.)

[KSH]

Hey, that Orbea Onix is a sweet ride!

If it's too large, why can't you just downsize it? Why trade it for the Trek?

Go in today and discuss the fit issues.

Otherwise, that's a nice bike... don't think you bought a bad bike. You didn't. Those are great bikes. Just dial in your fit with the shop.

It will be fine. :)

[PscyclePath]

This is going to be long so hang on...


Overnight I was thinking about it and felt that I didn't really ask good questions about the Dama's fit. The Dama has Ultegra SL which I could definitely appreciate over the Trek's majority 105. I liked the look of the Dama more as well. The prices were pretty close and I really felt the Dama was a better purchase.

I brought the bike home. Haven't ridden it much because I don't have shoes yet but I've done A LOT of sitting on it and I'm pretty much convinced that as-is it is not the bike for me.


Help! Can the Onix fit be salvaged? Should I be thinking of ways to sell it :eek: so I can get the Trek because I feel that the LBS won't be taking it back? Hang it on the wall as expensive art! Egad!

Sounds like you've done a good bit of research...

I've got both an Madone 5.2 (the 2004 USPS team bike, but with 120 carbon) that I've put a little over 6500 miles on in the past couple of years, and I recently got an Orbea Onix TDF... sounds like the non-WSD version of yours, with the Ultrgra SL gruppo. The Onix has about 370 miles or so on it in the past three weeks since I picked it up. I really, really like the Onix and the way it feels on the road. Very stiff, very nimble and and I've tried it from easy group rides to a couple of the alleycat races that the Sunday afternoon group rides have degenerated into...

Go out and ride that Onix a bit... not only will it give you a lot better concept of how it really fits, but you'll get a lot better perception of how it rides in comparison to the Madone. Both are great bikes... but depending on your personal riding style, one may suit you better. But once you get the fit right, I think you'll really like that Onix.

[mimitabby]

sitting on a bike and riding it are NOT the same thing.

try riding it. and if you don't like it take it back. Store credit is better than nothing. good luck

[indysteel]

I'm assuming you feel too stretched out on the Orbea which could be because (a) you are or (b) you aren't quite used to being in that position on a bike. With respect to the former, go to the LBS and try to tweak the fit to the extent that you can. There are limits to what you can do to shorten reach. Too short a stem can make the bike handle poorly. Your saddle should be moved fore and aft to position your knee over the pedal; it shouldn't necessarily be moved to accomodate reach. You also might talk to them about whether a stem with more rise and/or tilting the handbars will help.

Also, here are a couple common "rules of thumb" when trying to figure out reach: Ideally, your upper body should be at a 45 degree angle when your hands are on the hoods. You should have a bit of bend in the elbows; your arms should not be locked. When you're in that position, your handlebars should be obscuring the hub of your front wheel. These are just rules of thumb; like most rules, they can be broken.

Unless they absolutely cannot get the bike to fit you, I would suggest that you riding it for a bit before you decide to chuck the bike. For many, it takes time and increased fitness to get used to road geometry. My bike was arguably a bit too big for me when I started. It wasn't uncomfortable really, but I was near the limit of a good fit. Over time, my reach has changed. Between riding and yoga, my core has gotten stronger and I've gained some flexibility. Now it feels like an extenstion of my body. If I'd gone with a smaller bike, I'd likely feel too cramped now.

Beyond that, you bought a great bike so don't regret it on that count.

[Grog]

Good luck! I have no opinion on the transaction, but I know your feelings and will be thinking about you.

The only somewhat helpful thing I can say beyond that is: check out the FSA Wing Pro Compact handlebars. Not only they come in 38 cm (and perhaps even 36 cm if you're really narrow) but they also have a different shape than most handlebars, making the reach much shorter. That's what I got instead of a change of stem (my bike was a free handout but it never fitted perfectly), and I was really happy.
http://www.ykkbikes.com/files/k-force-new.gif
(You can google them, some other angles show the short reach better.)

I am pretty sure a 60 mm stem would be really short and weird.

Good luck *big hug*

[Harley]

Is your bike the Orbea Onix Dama model? The beautiful black on their website? Looks like a beautiful ride! I can see why you fell in love with it.:cool:

I felt too stretched out on my new Bianchi, mainly because my core strength is non-existant. My LBS put on a 80mm stem with a 10 degree rise, made a huge difference. I ended up buying the new stem, they installed at no charge, as I am keeping the longer stem, may want to change back when I get stronger.

Your LBS does not want a dissatisfied customer, go in TODAY, and talk with them about fit. Have them put you on a trainer, on your bike, and see how the fit works. If your still uncomfortable, try the next smaller size. Then buy some shoes (even at another shop) and get out for a ride.

It'll all work out, patience, think of all the fun rides you will be doing soon.:)
We want photos of your new ride.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Just my personal opinion....
I would do everything possible to take it back immediately and get the more comfortable Trek instead. All the tweaking in the world will never make a frame with geometry that truly does not suit you into a bike that fits like a glove. I've been there....saddle more forward/more back, shorter handlebars, tilting handlebars, shorter/longer/shorter stem, more core muscle strength, etc etc.....they all improve things but do not totally cure the primary problem...at least for me.
Pay no attention to anyone saying you 'look good' on it. I did that with two knowledgeable bike guys both of whom I totally trusted. I may have looked good (I look good off the bike too! :cool:) but my top tube was still too long by several cm's and my center of gravity wound up being a little too far forward no matter WHAT we did over 2 years to tweak the fit better, and believe me, we did everything. This center of gravity problem is subtle but it has been my own little personal demon. I am keeping this wonderful bike because I am 'mostly' comfortable on it and it's a great bike overall...but I have a new custom bike coming now which I hope will be my 'main' bike and will make me better balanced.

If you can find a bike that feels REALLY comfortable to your body right off the bat, then move Heaven and Earth to get that bike.
I bet that if you tell the Trek LBS to swap out all 105 parts on the Trek to Ultegra, they will be more than happy to accommodate and maybe not even charge you for labor....perhaps just the money difference for the components, if you are fairly assertive and they are feeling cooperative that day.

End of personal opinion. ;)

[GLC1968]

You know...I had similiar buyer's remorse after purchasing my second road bike. A year later, I ended up selling it because I never got it quite right and if it doesn't feel right on a ride around a parking lot, it's going to feel REALLY REALLY wrong after 100 miles.

I agree with Knot - go test ride that Trek again and see. Maybe it's not as perfect as you are imagining it and it would be a shame to do anything with the Orbea until you know for sure.

Secondly, it may be worth giving this a little time or at least a 10-20 mile ride. I agree that with flexiblity and strength changes as you get used to a road bike, you may find that you are comfortable on the more aggressive geometry. Some find this is true, others, not so much. It's very individual. And sitting on the bike is VERY different than riding it. Take it out for a spin and see.

[bean fidhleir]

In your place I'd definitely take it back. If it doesn't feel right now, it never will (or that's my experience, anyway). I've been going through all sorts of contortions trying to make my frankenbike work well for me but nothing does any good. The bike's geometry and mine just don't match up. Which might be bearable if it wasn't my everyday transportation, but it is so it isn't.

Get a disinterested witness to what the website says ("30 day money back"), save a copy of the page to your hard disk, and you can hold them to it--via the bbb, the city consumer affairs dept, or even in court if need be. If they dig in their heels and point to the register sign, tell them pleasantly that you relied on the website and you think they should honor that clearly-stated commitment.

[indysteel]

[QUOTE=RoadBunner;299943]I knew the Dama didn't feel 100% comfortable and the woman who was helping me even said that it fit but was on the larger side of a good fit (she recommended the Madone).....

Went to another LBS who suggested putting smaller handlebars on the Dama. He showed them to me, and definitely this would bring the reach in about 2 cm.

These two statements stand out for me a bit. First, I'm not completely sure how "smaller" handlebars, i.e., narrower, would necessarily change your reach. I suppose it depends on the design of each set of them, but my eyebrows raised when I reread this.

Second, two centimeters is a lot when it comes to fit. If the first saleperson thought the Orce fit but was on the larger side of a good fit and the new handlebars did indeed shorten your reach by two centimeters, I'm surprised you still feel that stretched out. I wonder if there's another difference in the geometry of these two bikes that is affecting how you feel on the Orca. You may want to take the dimensions of the Trek into the LBS with you and let them compare them to the Orca. It might give them some idea of what could be tweaked.

Notwithstanding my previous advice, I do agree that if the bike just doesn't fit, then you should try to return it. Bike fit can be tweaked. To a degree. Flexibility can increase. To a degree. If your gut tells you that this isn't the right bike, then by all means, try to return it and buy the Trek.

Also, remember that you may have some rights under your credit card--if that's how you paid for the bike--if you're not satisfied with the purchase. You might contact them to challenge the charge.

[alpinerabbit]

I would keep it polite to start with.

[VeloVT]

I would keep it polite to start with.

I agree. I'll bet the shop will be willing to work with you. It may be that they aren't ultimately willing to go far enough... but they have a reputation to keep, so they probably won't want to leave you angry. I would give them a chance.

[sandra]

I'd return it. I'm without a road bike this very moment because I was never totally convinced my bike was the best fit for me. I sold it this week and now I'm shopping.

[RoadBunner]

Thanks, everyone for your opinions. Basically everyone here is saying what I think and I go back in forth between "run now!" and "this could work out!"

On the same day I rode the stock-Onix and the Trek for about 30 minutes each. I knew that as-was the Onix wasn't for me, and the Trek felt fantastic. This same-day riding was when I decided perceived value in the frame was the same, but component-wise the Onix had an advantage I could appreciate. I've also ridden both models on different days, but definitely overall spent more time on the Trek than the bike I eventually bought (I know, shoot me now).

indysteel, the new handlebars definitely brought in the reach (I love the new handlebars...salsa poco). The LBS guy showed me the stock ones and the salsa side-by side and it was pretty obvious that since the curvature started sooner, the reach was shortened. However, I am thinking the same thing you are in regards to that change should be enough if what the original LBS said was right about it being okay but not an optimal fit. Maybe there is something else going on that I'm not pinpointing.

All this talk about going in TODAY is making me panic but I'm going to hold off til Monday. The man who helped me out doesn't work Fri/Sat (I'm working right near til their closing time today) and he requested I come in Monday because Sundays are busier and he wants to be able to spend a lot of time with me. I'm sure he has a superior who has the final say if things don't work out, but I'd like an advocate there who is familiar with me.

I don't want to make the LBS sound bad because they were really very helpful and it isn't their fault I bought the bike. I do feel that the reason they don't do a very comprehensive fit upon purchase is because they have a supposed fitting guru working there who charges $150-300 for a super high-tech fit session. This rubs me the wrong way, but shame on me for not making sure I'd be getting a comprehensive fit before I purchased. To their credit, they never tried to sell me this session, either.

I've worked in a retail setting before and know that even with a no-refunds policy (and I worked at a place that made you sign saying you knew of this) loud, angry customers usually get their money back. I don't have the personality to raise such a stink, though, so I'm really hoping this will work out fit-wise or return-wise with things staying civil.

I'm going to go on Monday and hope they can dial in a fit for me then go from there. Right now, I can have a slight bend in my arms, but it is more comfortable to keep them straight. I'm not sure if this is fit or my lack of strength in this position.

I've read about that bar-obcuring-hubs thing and with my hands on the straight portion of the bars, it lines up perfectly. If I'm on the hoods, it doesn't. I searched this forum and read somewhere about someone saying you should extend you arm from elbow to fingers from the seat and this should bring you within 2 cm of the middle of the bars. I'm about an inch off from that mark now.

The Onix does come in one size smaller, but that model has 650cc wheels. The woman who originally helped me with the stock-onix thought I wasn't "that short" to warrant trying that size (I'm about 5'2").

Again, I'm new to this so am not entirely sure what to look for. Maybe the Onix does fit but is more aggresive. Maybe the Trek feels great now but I'd "outgrow" the geometry down the road.

I am totally stressing, though and this isn't fun :(

[GLC1968]

Don't stress! You'll get it worked out eventually. I'm sure they want you to be happy too! Waiting until Monday when he's got time to work with you is a good idea.

And just as an aside, I'm 5'4" and ride 650's on my road bike. There is no such thing as not short enough for 650's! A woman I used to ride with is taller than me (I'll guess 5'6") and she also has 650's on her bike...so it's not unheard of. As a short person who's first bike was too big and who's second bike was too small, I'd say that too small is easier to work with than too big. But now that I have 'perfect' I say "why settle?!". You'll get there!

[KSH]

I'm 5'4" and my Cervelo One has 650's on it.

Who cares if the wheels are 650's if the bike fits? The smaller Orbea that is.

[KnottedYet]

Over the weekend (while waiting for your Monday meeting with your bike salesguy) can you test ride the smaller Onix and the Trek?

[conurejade]

I boutght the Onix Dama (although Campy and not Ultegra) 3 months ago and I couldn't be happier with mine. With that being said, no matter how great the specs, if the bike doesn't fit you'll be miserable. I too would recommend trying the next size down, but whatever you ultimately decide to do, let the LBS know and see what they can do for you. My LBS bent over backwards to get me the right bike (we're still tweaking the stem length) and I think most quality LBS's want you to be happy with your purchase. After all, most of their prifit comes from accessories and your repeat business so it's not in their best interests to ignore an unhappy client.
+1 on changing the bar - I went with the Salsa Short'n'Shallow and it made a world of difference in the reach - and my ability to reach the brakes while in the drops!

The Onix Dama is an absolutely beautiful bike - if I do say so myself ;)
For those who haven't seen it, this is mine before changing the handlebars.

[RoadBunner]

Both shops so far as I know did not have the smaller Onix. I will call and ask, though. I'll be honest here, I'd hate to go back and bother the poor Trek LBS again. :( They have been so good to me and I hate to keep going back. Bottom line, if the Orbea isn't the one and I can return it, I'll start at square one again then. That would likely start back at Trek, but at least then I'd have a clear conscience about taking up their time.

Conurejade it is a beautiful bike! I can't believe they don't put a smaller handlebar on it to begin with. I'm not sure of the exact model of salsas that were put on mine (they have an ergonomic "bump" in the drops which is so comfy), but I have to say they are great and I'd consider getting them for whatever bike I end up with.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

I'm not sure of the exact model of salsas that were put on mine (they have an ergonomic "bump" in the drops which is so comfy), but I have to say they are great and I'd consider getting them for whatever bike I end up with.

Both the Salsa Short N Shallow bars and the Salsa Poco bars will shorten your reach a little bit, but the Salsa Pocos shorten it most...I think by about 2cm. I switched my Nitto Noodle drop bars last year to Salsa Pocos- it did make an improvement.

[RoadBunner]

Both the Salsa Short N Shallow bars and the Salsa Poco bars will shorten your reach a little bit, but the Salsa Pocos shorten it most...I think by about 2cm. I switched my Nitto Noodle drop bars last year to Salsa Pocos- it did make an improvement.

I see, Poco is the model :D

[SouthernBelle]

I 2nd the vote for Pocos. Love mine.

[indysteel]

I 2nd the vote for Pocos. Love mine.

Good to know--for when I eventually build my dream bike!

[Mr. SR500]

Sorry about the bike, buying a new bike should be a fun experience. That said, I think a 60 mm stem will be too short. So if that is what it takes to fit the bike, get a different bike.

If you are unhappy, the shop should do whatever they can to make you happy, either fit you correctly on the bike you have, order the smaller size, or accept the bike as a return. If you return the bike they might screw you over with a store credit, but you could call your credit card company and I'm sure you would prevail.

I'm a Trek fan, and the new Madones are wonderful. It's no surprise you liked the ride. Frame technology and the best warranty in the business make Trek a great value. I'm not sure which Trek you were looking at (4.5, 4.7, 5.1), but you should be able to buy a 5.1 WSD for under $2700, with basically full Ultegra, US built frame and all the new tech.

Best of luck, and do what feels best!

[lph]

Oh my, that Dama is one beautiful bike. I'm not a huge fan of pink ordinarily, but that bike needs pink handlebar tape!

[Kano]

All this talk about going in TODAY is making me panic but I'm going to hold off til Monday. The man who helped me out doesn't work Fri/Sat (I'm working right near til their closing time today) and he requested I come in Monday because Sundays are busier and he wants to be able to spend a lot of time with me. I'm sure he has a superior who has the final say if things don't work out, but I'd like an advocate there who is familiar with me.

I'm going to go on Monday and hope they can dial in a fit for me then go from there. Right now, I can have a slight bend in my arms, but it is more comfortable to keep them straight. I'm not sure if this is fit or my lack of strength in this position.

I've read about that bar-obcuring-hubs thing and with my hands on the straight portion of the bars, it lines up perfectly. If I'm on the hoods, it doesn't. I searched this forum and read somewhere about someone saying you should extend you arm from elbow to fingers from the seat and this should bring you within 2 cm of the middle of the bars. I'm about an inch off from that mark now.

Again, I'm new to this so am not entirely sure what to look for. Maybe the Onix does fit but is more aggresive. Maybe the Trek feels great now but I'd "outgrow" the geometry down the road.

I am totally stressing, though and this isn't fun :(


I snipped a bit -- saved stuff I was planning to address...


First tidbit is the reach -- that elbow to fingertips thing. And I don't know what you mean by the "middle of the bars" exactly. So, running out to the garage to visit MY bike (thanks for the excuse) I see that the tip of my finger nail comes to about that distance from what would be the center of the tube that is the handlebar, so I'm guessing that's where you're talking about. I also don't know for sure what you mean by "an inch from that mark." If you mean that the tip of your finger is an inch from the center of the bar, then you're not that far off that "2cm" mark -- the difference is about 1/4 inch. I'm betting they can fix that.

The stem -- my bike came with a 100mm stem. FIRST, we changed the angle of it. When I decided I should have a shorter one, as well as that angle change, my bike shop switched it out for me, putting a 90mm stem on. From what I'd seen here, I thought they came in "even numbers" -- like 80 was going to be my next step. Maybe you can have a 70mm stem instead of a 60?

To go with this reach thing -- you say that when you're on the bike, your elbows have the bend, but you're more comfortable with your arms straight. I don't remember reading about what you have been riding before this bike. I found myself "degenerating" into the straight arm position a lot at first on my road bike. I had to actively think about keeping my arms "loose."

Your bike guy wants to work with you and make you happy on this bike -- you say he wants to have lots of time for you. When I bought my bike, on a Saturday, I was told that same thing. Come back another day for more detailed fitting. Your dude has told you to come back a lot sooner than my dude: mine said ride like this for a couple of hundred miles. When we met him, we talked about my old bike, a Specialized Expedition -- upright, suspension fork and seat post. I told him what I did NOT like about it, and that I felt like I'd be happier and get more power with my butt up higher, on a road bike.

I'm about 5'3.5" and at the time weighed about 220. EVERY OTHER BIKE SALESMAN I talked to wanted to put me on a hybrid or comfort bike, even though I was saying I don't like my hybrid/upright bike. This guy took me to road bikes. I had ridden a Specialized Dolce in a 51. It was crowded. REALLY crowded. Granted, there was a lot of me to put into that cockpit. We started out looking at those, and then bike dude took me to the Allez. He had me ride a 52. This was love! It had a double crank, and I was interested in a triple, so he suggested the Roubaix. Found one of those, on clearance -- a past year, you know, in my size, carbon frame, better components, SAME PRICE. I didn't even ride it!

Bike guy said take it home, put your pedals on it (I had SPD pedals on my Expedition) and ride for a couple of weeks. He said I WOULD be uncomfortable for a while, changing position so much, and that I should build a bit of strength before we made changes. I changed the saddle almost immediately, then changed it again. Then I changed gloves, and then we changed the handlebar angle. The last change was the stem -- from the 100 to the 90. I've been really happy on my bike ever since. Oops, we added some shims in the brakes to make them easier to reach.

On the other side of the equation, I spent quite a bit of time with strengthening my body. Upper back work to help me keep my shoulders down while riding, and core work to help me hold my body up without relying so much on my hands/arms. That was harder!

Anyway, with all this -- your bike dude said come back when we can spend some serious time together to make this bike work for you. He did some things to get you started. I'm thinking that the thing to do this weekend is to ride your bike. If it's got clipless pedals on it, and you don't have shoes yet, then go find some platform pedals to get going. If it's got NO pedals, put some kind of pedals on it and ride! You'll have more idea of what isn't right -- on you and on the bike -- after a couple of rides, I think.

BUT

Ride to enjoy your new bike. Don't ride for speed, or great distance (it's remarkable how many miles you can put on while tootling around in a subdivision. one night we rode abou 15 miles without ever being more than about half a mile from home) You'll find out what needs fixing without focusing on problems. Sounds like your boyfriend rides, and if he comes with you, he probably knows things like how to tweak your saddle at least, and probably carries tools. (not that he'll be able to make it truly comfy if it's like sitting on a brick, corners up)

Feel her handling, feel how your legs feel, how her gearing works, etc. When your shoulders start to hurt, think about putting them down and relaxing your arms, and think about holding your body with your body. Notice what only you can/need to fix too, and give the bike a break on that part.

Oops, I'm supposed to be at work in twelve minutes! Better get a move on!!!

Karen in Boise

[conurejade]

I'm not a huge fan of pink ordinarily, but that bike needs pink handlebar tape!

Me either. BTW, the pink on the bike is a really pale shade and none of the pink bar tape I tried looked good with it. :rolleyes:

[RoadBunner]

Kano, thanks for all of the suggestions. Originally I gave the stock Onix and the Trek on the same day about 30 min each and definitely had a preference then. I remember I had pain in my hands/arms and felt less "safe" with the Onix but no pain and felt very secure on the Trek (plus I rode the Trek after the Onix so the pain was not endurance related). I'm going to give my bike about a 30 min ride on Sunday and see if this is still the same or not since the handlebars were changed.

Talking to some people, I'm beginning to think the difference between the two is that the Dama has a lower front than the Trek. Being a newbie I'm naturally more comfortable a little more upright. I have a feeling that with shims and maybe a slight stem change, the Dama is probably okay for me just I'm not used to that position.

I guess it comes down to whether I'd rather have a better bike for the $ that I'd probably get used to (but maybe not) or if I'd rather go with something straight off the bat which is comfortable.

[Kano]

I understand your feeling -- it's hard to know you can count on the bike working for you in the long term! I do think it's not a bad idea to see what the guy can do for you on Monday. Maybe you'll be pleasantly surprised!

Enjoy your ride tomorrow!

Karen in Boise

[xeney]

I don't have an opinion on these two bikes but I wanted to second this:


Sorry about the bike, buying a new bike should be a fun experience. That said, I think a 60 mm stem will be too short. So if that is what it takes to fit the bike, get a different bike.

I have a 50 mm stem on my road bike to make it fit me and it sucks. I mean, it's rideable, I've gotten used to it, I don't hate it, and it's a whole lot better than not quite being able to reach the brakes. (Or feeling like I can't quite reach the brakes.) But it is far from ideal and I would not buy a new bike if that was what it took to make it fit me.

Some people don't mind very short stems, and some of them will tell you that it doesn't matter, that fit is all that matters, so go with the short stem if you need to. But you're buying a new bike so you shouldn't need to. And if you do need to go shorter than about 80 mm, I would do an awful lot of riding on the bike with that stem before deciding not to return the new bike.

Good luck. They both sound like great bikes. I test rode an Orbea year before last and loved it, but it just doesn't fit my needs right now.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

I have a 50 mm stem on my road bike to make it fit me and it sucks. I mean, it's rideable, I've gotten used to it, I don't hate it, and it's a whole lot better than not quite being able to reach the brakes. (Or feeling like I can't quite reach the brakes.) But it is far from ideal....

Yes, a 50 and a 60mm DO 'suck'. They make your bike steer kind of wobbly. I tried them to fix my reach problem, and had to go back to a 70 in order to steer straight. My bike originally came with a 90mm stem. I've struggled with reach problems for 2 years. Better to start with a bike that fits well.

[conurejade]

I guess it comes down to whether I'd rather have a better bike for the $ that I'd probably get used to (but maybe not) or if I'd rather go with something straight off the bat which is comfortable.

I absolutely love my Onix Dama. But with that being said, just because it's the bike for me does not mean it's the bike for you. Fit and comfort will make the difference between pure riding enjoyment and...well...maybe not riding at all. Don't settle for something that's not right for you. Talk to your LBS, but don't let them 'convince' you of something that just doesn't feel right.

I really hope you get this resolved - as a poster said earlier, this should be a totally fun, exciting experience - not a panic situation.

Good Luck!!!!!!!!

[Triskeliongirl]

DO NOT KEEP A BIKE THAT YOU ARE NOT COMFORTABLE ON. BEEN THERE, DONE THAT. DO NOT RIDE A STEM SHORTER THAN 7CM. Yes, shorter bars, stem, etc. can make it kinda sorta work, but they compromise the handling. If you wanna get more aero later on the trek you can always lower or lengthen the stem.

I think you have two options, try the smaller orbea (at 5 foot 2 I can't imagine you NOT on a bike with 650c wheels, I am 5 foot 4 and require either a 24" front or 650 wheels), or return it for the trek. It seems to me that you would have better luck with a return by bringing it in sooner (while is still 'new') rather than later, so if it were me I would return it today and buy the trek. Fit is more important than componentry.

[tulip]

Fit is more important than componentry.

HEAR HEAR! A few days of returning the bike and getting the one that fits will so be worth years of riding comfort!

[RoadBunner]

hey, everyone!

So I took the Onix out for a 40 minute spin today. Good news is that the situation is not as dire as I once thought. I felt safe on it (as opposed to before the handlebars were switched). I now feel that the reach is probably okay for me. Shims would be great but I'm won't be gunning for a shorter stem. However, after riding for about 15 minutes, I get an achy feeling in my arms from my biceps area all the way down to my hands. If I stop for a bit it goes away, then it returns after about 10-15 minutes.

Do you think this is probably due to the lower front of the Onix vs. the Madone? I rode the Madone for 30 min and never had any pain or discomfort in my hands or arms.

I will say, this is one sweet bike. It's nice and smooth and shifts like a dream. I will miss the Ultegra SL if I end up going with the Madone.

I have some thinking to do tonight. In your experience for a newbie should everything be perfect right off the bat? BF once again says that it's probably newbie "growing pains" and after a month or so my arms, back, core will get stronger (I'm a runner now so have no upper body strength to speak of) and I'll be so happy I kept the Onix since I love it more than the Trek. I feel, as many of you have pointed out, that I should go with something comfortable and the Madone can be lowered as I get stronger if I so desire.

Is there anything specific I should ask the LBS tomorrow? Any new thoughts to help me decide what to do?

[Grog]

I have some thinking to do tonight. In your experience for a newbie should everything be perfect right off the bat? BF once again says that it's probably newbie "growing pains" and after a month or so my arms, back, core will get stronger (I'm a runner now so have no upper body strength to speak of) and I'll be so happy I kept the Onix since I love it more than the Trek. I feel, as many of you have pointed out, that I should go with something comfortable and the Madone can be lowered as I get stronger if I so desire.

I did not have the chance to shop for my first road bike (and only road bike so far). It was given to me and I had no say. After over 10,000 km on it I changed the handlebars from 42s to 38s with a short reach. It felt weird, but definitely so much better than before. I did not know better for the first two years I had the bike.

It`s certain that strength in the core area makes a big difference. I notice it at the start of every season, although this year after a winter of intense running it's not as much of an issue. My core is much stronger, but my shoulders still hurt a bit. It will be about gone in 300 km / a few weeks.

But should you keep a bike that's not working so well for you *in hopes* that your body will get stronger? I am not sure that this is the best decision.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Achy feeling in arms and hands says to me that your weight is too far forward. Again, the reach problem.
My slight reach problem and forward weight imbalance gives me pain in my left elbow every time i ride. No matter what. Even when my core strength is better, the elbow still hurts the longer i ride. Stops hurting when I rest, comes back again after 10 minutes of riding. It's not going to go away on this bike. I've learned to live with it, but am hoping my new custom bike will cure that by having my balance better centered.

[emily_in_nc]

Roadbunner,

I've read the entire thread, and personally, I'd go with the Madone. It sounds like it fits you better with less tweaking. I don't know anything about Madones, though -- is there a model with Ultegra you could get instead, if you really like the Ultegra on the Onix? Or does that put it into an even higher price bracket?

I'd always go with the better fitting bike FRAME geometry before anything else. Everything else can be changed. The frame cannot.

Good luck, and keep us posted!

Emily

[Triskeliongirl]

I concur with the previous two posts. I think you are positioned too far forward on the bike, in a misguided attempt to shorten the reach, putting too much weight on your arms and hands.

As mentioned already, you can always lower and lengthen the stem, but you can't do anything about a frame that doesn't fit as time goes on. Get the bike that fits now. The new 105 is supposed to be as good as the old ultegra, so its nothing to sneez at.

[Grog]

My slight reach problem and forward weight imbalance gives me pain in my left elbow every time i ride. No matter what. Even when my core strength is better, the elbow still hurts the longer i ride. Stops hurting when I rest, comes back again after 10 minutes of riding. It's not going to go away on this bike. I've learned to live with it, but am hoping my new custom bike will cure that by having my balance better centered.

I had the very same thing on my bike when I started. Thankfully flipping the stem resolved the problem (although I was still overstretched until I got the new handlebars). It's really an unpleasant pain, I hope yours gets better.

[KnottedYet]

I went from a hybrid to a road bike. It was true love from first ride (about 10 miles, next ride was about 50 miles), even though I knew I needed to mess with the bars a bit. Rode it a week, put in narrower bars and a taller/shorter reach quill stem, and instantly felt the fit solidify.

Haven't changed anything since.

If a bike frame doesn't fit you now, it won't fit you better later. Changing stems and bars and such should fine-tune the fit, not *make* the fit.

I'd still like to see you ride that Trek again, and really compare it to the Onix. You might find the Trek isn't as grand as you remember; or you might find that the Trek is lovely and you want it.

Either way, you will have a more complete experience of both bikes, and your buyer's remorse will be assuaged.

[GLC1968]

Ditto Knot again - 100%

Something else that happened for me when I first started riding that may very well be the case for you if you are a runner. I was in great shape before I bought my first road bike (I didn't go from a hybrid, I went straight to road geometry). I found that my fitness would allow me to ride for much longer than my body could handle. I was capable of easily riding 35 - 50 miles in the first week, but man, my body would HURT. Everything would ache. Over time, that did go away. Eventually, I got to a point where I could pin point the few little aches and pains that helped me dial in my fit (or in my case, trade in my bike!:eek:) as opposed to general body fatigue from a new sport.

Even now, while I have an extremely well fit bike, I have aches and pains when I've not ridden in awhile. After a break, the first ride out, 15 miles later, I'm achey. The next ride, I can be on the bike a little longer...the ride after that, even longer. Of course, now that I'm also out of shape, it's no big deal, I'll just work up to it. When I was in good condition, it frustrated me to no end. I used to question why I was so uncomfortable!! Now I know that even if my cardiovascular system can handle hours on the bike, my body cannot...not right off anyway. It takes time to adjust.

As a new rider, the difficulty comes from being able to tell the difference between poor bike fit and a body just not used to the position. There is a difference, but to the inexperienced, it's very hard to see. Unfortunately, I don't really have any advice on this front. If you have someone with bike fit experience that you trust, they can tell you that your position is good or at least very close. Then you can take some time to get used to it and eventually get it 100% dialed in. That same person should also be able to say "no, this bike won't work for you"...and obviously, most bike shop fit people aren't going to want to say that.

[RoadBunner]

I went back to the LBS today and was put on the trainer with the "resident fit-guru" I mentioned in a previous post. He dialed in some changes (added shims, switched out the stem, changed the saddle, etc) and gave me advice on my position.

I don't have my shoes yet and he wants me to return once they arrive to really dial in the fit. The shoes are supposed to be delivered this Friday. So hopefully early next week I can go back and get a real fitting session done.

I was told that the fitting session was included in the purchase but I have no clue why it wasn't offered to me when I bought the bike?!

After he made his changes I took the bike for a quick spin. Arms/hands are better but had some mild aches in my shoulders so am not 100% convinced yet.

Anyhow, I'm going to hold out and get a real fit done and see what happens. I feel like I'm taking a leap of faith here if I still have minor aches after he finishes tweaking things. I would honestly be totally surprised if there was a bike out there that didn't cause me to be sore in some ways since this is new to me. GLC1968, I feel exactly what you said...there are differences in discomfort from poor fit vs. lack of fitness and I'm not sure what is what.

My gut tells me to give this a shot now that someone with better experience is helping me out. I also feel the longer this goes on, the less chance of a refund if it doesn't work out. I guess I'll stay within the "30 days" mentioned on the website and go from there since if they were going to give me a hassle with it, that was my reason for feeling I was in the right to want my money back.

Crossing my fingers it will work out with this bike, though. Thanks, everyone for your advice and encouragement. My BF was going nutty hearing me talking about this so it was nice to have everyone here to bounce ideas off of. I will keep you updated.

[tulip]

With or without reach issues, you could be locking your elbows and hunching up your shoulders. Make a conscious effort to keep your elbows slightly bent and your shoulders relaxed.

[Triskeliongirl]

If you love this bike, then be sure to ask the fitter what he thinks about swapping it out for one frame size smaller, even if you have to wait for it to be ordered.