Bike Fit Question

[cyclingnewbie]

I spent last Saturday shopping for a new bike. The hybrid I have been riding is too small, and won't work for the longer rides I want to do this year. I started out looking at the comfort road and touring bikes, thinking that was the geometry I was interested in. But I've decided I like the feel and handling of the traditional road bike better. I haven't found any women's specific bikes with frames big enough to accomodate my long legs (at least not yet; still shopping). Because of the problems with my current bike, I am super sensitive to the fit issue with a new bike. So I have been test riding nice, big bikes. By the end of the day on Saturday, not only was my butt sore from all those narrow, hard little road bike saddles, but my knees were sore. Lots of what I rode didn't fit, but I'm wondering if I was looking at bikes that are too big? Would too much extension cause sore knees? I wasn't on anything where my leg was completely straight at the bottom of the crank. Or maybe the sore knees were just from riding so many different bikes all day. Does anyone know what would cause the sore knees?

[cruziegirl]

hmm, well what I understand is that when the pain is in front of your knee it's an indication the seat is too low and if the pain is in back of the knee it indicates the seat is too high. Were you using clipless pedals? If so, maybe your cleat positioning vs. their pedals caused the soreness. Have you thought of checking out Trek's WSD bikes? I own a 2300 and love it. Just because you have nice, long legs (I am soooo jealous - I have little tiny short legs, like a hamster :rolleyes: ) doesn't mean a woman's bike wouldn't work for you. Whatever bike you choose check out the Terry Butterfly Ti saddles -they are truly wonderful!

[cyclingnewbie]

Standard pedals on the test rides, so that can't be the problem. Many of the bikes were too small, so maybe the sore knees are from not enough extension. I looked at the Trek bikes and they are leading my preference list right now. Unfortunately, I need at least a 58 cm frame and their WSDs only go to 56, and the LBS didn't have any WSDs in a 56 cm. But I haven't ruled them out because 2 cm isn't that significant. A traditional road bike with a large enough frame for my legs has a top tube that is a bit too long, so the WSD would be better. The option I'm looking at is to use a slightly shorter stem to back the bar up a bit, and that solves that problem. Anyway, still shopping and don't want those sore knees after I make a decision!

[Melody]

Have you considered seeing if your LBS can do a custom fitting? That way, they can find the closest bike to your fit that they have in stock. Plus, get the numbers from them so that if they don't have anything you can take the fitting information to other stores and see what they have in stock that will work for you. :) I don't know about other shops, but my LBS will do a custom fit for $45.

Mel

[slinkedog]

When I was shopping for a road bike, we found that the WSD models didn't fit me well. So while they're a great option to have, I don't think they're for everyone. I ended up getting a Specialized bike, but I loved the Treks, too. 2cm can be very significant when it comes to your knees. I was having some knee soreness and my husband just moved my cleats a tiny bit and it made a huge difference. Make sure you get a pro fit from your LBS.

[Adventure Girl]

Is there a specific reason that you are looking at WSD bikes? Are you looking ONLY at WSD bikes? Every bike will have different geometry. I would recommend that you not rule out bikes that aren't WSD. Especially if you are in the 58cm range! There are bikes that fit men with long legs out there!

WSD bikes are great when they fit, but in some ways it's just marketing! I wonder how many men ride WSD bikes. Anybody know of any men who are confident enough in their masculinity to ride a GIRL'S bike? :p

[SadieKate]

Remember WSD bikes aren't for everyone! Every bike builder uses slightly different geometry so the top tubes from one brand to the next vary widely. I'm 5'3.5" with long legs/short torso. I've never ridden a WSD bike. I shop for short top tubes and don't give a flip about the size of the frame -- I measure the top tube and look for one that will work with an appropriately size stem to maintain the proper handling of the bike. I then make sure the components fit me (adjustable reach levers, proper saddle, proper bars). Stand over height is not the issue for those of us with long legs/short torsos.

You need to take a tape measure with you to the store and actually put it to the frame. Just using a shorter stem isn't always the best alternative as you can sacrifice handling. One of the ways companies say a bike is for women is just having short reach levers and a women's saddle. Well, the shop better be willing to swap the saddle for you or go down the street to the next shop. If you can ride a 58 cm frame you probably don't have reach issues with the levers. Women's shoulders very widely also; I bet a decent LBS can swap out the bars also. A good shop will swap at no cost if they have the same/comparable item in stock or give you credit towards a replacement that fits.

Sore knees can come from test pedals that don't allow you to clip in as usualy, a saddle that is not properly positioned fore/aft, a wide Q-factor, all kinds of things. If you're stretched out over the bike because the top tube is too long you may be pulled forward over the crank.

You've got all kinds of factors to consider but don't get too hung up on a WSD if you can ride something in the 58 cm size range. I highly recommend a professional fit so you can determine the best cockpit length for you and then let the "size" of the bike be secondary. Shouldn't a good LBS credit the cost of the fit towards the purchase of a bike?

PS - You can get an estimate of the total cockpit length by measuring from the ctr of your current bike's seatpost to the center of the stem and also from the ctr of your seatpost to where your hands rest on the bar. This will give you an idea of where to start and if you want to be more stretched out or not.

[cyclingnewbie]

I'm not specifically looking at WSD bikes. I have found that a traditional road frame tends to be a tiny bit long in the top tube (on most of the bikes I've tried, so far) and some of the WSDs do have a little shorter top tube length. But the WSDs I've seen so far have not been able to accomodate my long legs. And your right; I haven't found that I have a reach issue with the levers. I am thinking about a professional fit. Actually, I am thinking about getting up the courage to go to the local pro-oriented shop and ask them to do a fit. They make it clear that they are not interested in the recreational rider as a customer, but I would think they would be willing to do a fit for me. They will probably die when they see an inexperienced female-fat-forty-something darken their elite doorway. :eek: So far, the bike shops I've been to have used the try-it-and-see-how-it-feels method of fitting a bike.

[Melody]

So far, the bike shops I've been to have used the try-it-and-see-how-it-feels method of fitting a bike.

I don't think that's unusual. I'm guessing that many shoppers, esp those just beginning to cycle, don't want to go with the expense of getting a pro-fit, so the LBSs don't even mention it.

I will say that if the pro shop isn't interested in helping you, try to find a different shop. You're spending your money to buy a bike and they are not inexpensive, so they should give you the courtesy you deserve as a customer. Also, if they treat you with disdain while looking a spending hundres, if not thousands of dollars, imagine how they will act/think while servicing your bike? "I can do this quick. It's not like it matters." :mad: Admittedly, the pro-shop may not be that way, but attitude to customers is, IMO, pretty important. Customers are what keeps a shop in business. :)

Mel

[Steph_in_TX]

2cm can make a huge difference for your knees. If you need a 58, then don't go smaller. You can only raise you saddle so much before you hit the minimum insertion point. It happened to my husband and don't think that wasn't an expensive deal to fix. Of course, he wasn't terribly disappointed to have to buy a new bike since he used the opportunity to upgrade to a higher model.

You might also want to take some measurements and use a website fitting program to at least get an idea of what size and various measurements might fit you best. There is one on coloradocyclist.com. There are others, but my brain can only recall that one at this moment.

Happy hunting!

[SadieKate]

Good, I was afraid you were looking only at WSD bikes. You know what I do once I know what top tube length I want? I get on the web at look at the geometry/measurements of any bike that is in my chosen price range/performance critieria. You can then even estimate if the next size smaller might work - just be careful that you don't sacrifice headtube height and can't keep the drop from saddle to bar to a reasonable number.

It sounds like you've got enough data to do this. VeloNews and Bicycling just came out with their annual reports. You might find some bikes listed there that are worth checking the measurements. At your height, you have a wealth of bikes from which to choose (lucky you!), you just need to find the brands with the short top tubes.

Good luck! Don't let that pro-oriented shop intimidate you. You sound far beyond what I would call a recreational rider, more of a "fitness" rider but not a racer. Recreational to me is someone who hangs their helmet on the bars and doesn't have their brakes connected most of the time. :( Your money is worth the same as the next person's and you're the one standing in their shop. A good fitting can save you lots of time - - just be clear on the type of riding you want to do.

[melissam]

Cyclingnewbie,

Since you have long legs, you might try a Bianchi, as they tend to have shorter top tubes. Bianchi has a women's bike (I think the Eros Donna), but you'd probably get a good fit with any of their frames.

You should also know that one brand's 58cm is different than another brands. I think Trek measures from from the center of the bottom bracket to the top of the seat post lug, and a lot of the other brands measure from the center of teh bottom bracket to the center of the seat post lug. This means that Trek's 56cm is like another brand's 55cm.

Happy shopping! With a lot of patience, you'll find a bike that fits you like a glove and provides many miles (and years) of cycling pleasure.

-- Melissa

[Adventure Girl]

Recreational to me is someone who hangs their helmet on the bars and doesn't have their brakes connected most of the timeI like the ones who have their quick release tightened in the "open" position... Like they used the QR as a handle to tighten the nut. :confused:

[cyclingnewbie]

Somebody needs to tell me how to quote your comments!

I knew that every bike manufacturer had different sizing, and confirmed that on my first day of test rides. My next LBS stop has Bianchi, which I want to try. The snooty pro-shop also has Bianchi, so I would like to look at Bianchi at the LBS before I venture into the elite shop so I maybe sound like I know what I'm talking about. If I think I like the Bianchi the best, I will get it at the pro-shop if their price is reasonable, just to get a more professional fit. I was also disappointed that the two shops I've been to so far didn't have very many bikes in the 58 cm range to try. Is that not a common size? Do most people ride something smaller than that?

[SadieKate]

I wonder if they're selling out of the 58's with the spring training fever. I have a friend who can only find 58s and needs a 60. Frustrating! And we're on the wrong coasts to swap shops! Make sure as Melissam said to be sure the measurements are taken on the same place on the bike and then compare the measurements from the websites. You'll get an idea of what size Bianchi you need and then you can always call around.

[nuthatch]

58 is pretty big, I think. I'm 5'9" and I take a 54 but, like cruziegirl, I have hamster legs - come to think of it, I have many parts that look like a hamster....

http://www.geocities.com/susan1221/hamster.jpg

[cyclingnewbie]

I got the impression from one shop that they didn't have many 58s because it was too early in the season (we still have snow). So I'm trying to remain calm about buying a bike and take my time. But it is really hard to not jump off one and say, "I like that one!!"

[CorsairMac]

I have hamster legs - come to think of it, I have many parts that look like a hamster....

http://www.geocities.com/susan1221/hamster.jpg

Has visions of nuthatch on a bike riding endlessly in circles!

Cycling: See the "quote" button on the bottom right hand corner of each persons response? Click on that and it'll copy their comments into your comment box, then you can edit etc to you hearts content! and good luck on the bike search!

<-----gonna go sit in a corner and pout coz I can't afford a road bike right now! ....living my dreams thru ya'll! :D

[Steph_in_TX]

Ok, duh! I posted earlier and didn't even think about suggesting a Bianchi. I have longer legs and average(maybe a bit longish) arms and they were a good fit for me. The reach is very comfortable. I have a Giro and I absolutely love it, though they don't make it in my beautiful blue anymore. It just fits me like a glove. I also test rode some WSD Treks as well as non-WSD Treks and they also seemed to be a good fit for my body. I chose the Bianchi because I was able to get a carbon fork and seat stays on it and the comparably priced Treks were all aluminum. However, Trek has added some carbon to it's lower end bikes as well.

A 58 should not be hard to find. Most of the men I know just under 6' tall ride a 58...hopefully, your LBS will stock up soon.

Stephanie

[cyclingnewbie]

<-----gonna go sit in a corner and pout coz I can't afford a road bike right now! ....living my dreams thru ya'll! :D

(Nothing like having a big, fat "quote" button right in front of me! Thanks.)

I sympathize with the not affording a bike thing. I have wanted a new bike for a while and I'm still debating if I should spend the money. My dilemma is, I don't ride often enough now to justify a new bike. But, will I ride more if I have a better bike that fits well? It's some kind of riddle, I think.

After all the great suggestions, I am very anxious to look at the Bianchi this weekend. Thank you to everyone!

[Ninabike]

Hi Cyclingnewbie,

I have a Bianachi although my problem is that I am small. If you are looking at short top tubes, you can pull up different manufacturers on the web and check out the geometry on each one. Look at the lengths of the top tubes on their 58cm bikes and compare them. the Bianchi site is BianchiUSA.com.
Believe or it or not, my bike is a Bianchi Alfana 44 cm frame. The top tube is 514. The Trek WDS actually has a relatively shorter top tube (I believe something like 497 mm for a 47cm bike). Good luck!!

Nina

[pedalfaster]

I started out looking at the comfort road and touring bikes, thinking that was the geometry I was interested in. But I've decided I like the feel and handling of the traditional road bike better.


I'm curious as to why you gave up on the comfort road geometry (e.g. Trek Pilot line).

I *hate* to do virtual fittings (I'm a visual artist by training and think there is a visual side--as well as an "art"-- to good bike fit) BUT, it seems that that geometry would suit your needs. You could get a bike in the correct "size" (going off of TT length) AND get the "more upright riding position"...only on YOU (it sounds like you have verrrrry long legs and a verrrry short torso?) it would translate to a fairly "normal" road bike position. Does that make sense?

On traditional road bike handling: as you are finding out, it's pretty stretched out. Look at some pro racers (pick up a copy of Velo News). There is nothing wrong with being stretched out. In fact, if you want to ride fast and/or race it's the only way to be! This position requires good flexibily and core strength. Gender and age are not really barriers. Type "Jeannie Longo" into google images and see what you come up with ;)

Some other thoughts on bike fit: thanks to to popularity of compact frames. longer road seatposts are now available. You can buy a bike according to TT length and get a longer post (just be aware that a longer post also increases your effective TT). Stems are also easy to switch out. Many "big" bikes (like 58, 60 cm) come with fairly long stems. You can easily run a 90-110 mm instead. Just don't let the bike shop talk you into anything shorter than that (see it with women alllll the time) as the handling gets kinda wonky and too many gals end up way way too far over the BB (but that's another story).

You can also go with a stem with a bit of rise...but then that brings us back to "what's so wrong with the Pilot?"

And if all else fails...there is always custom. Bring your CC :D

[cyclingnewbie]

Pedalfaster: I tried the Pilot, but so far I like the handling of the traditional road bike better. You seem to be over the front wheel a little more, or something. I haven't ruled the comfort bike geometry out yet though. I have long legs and arms, and average torso; I'm pretty evenly proportioned. I need to do more test riding before I can make a decision. What I would really like to do is take my first choice from two or three bike shops and get them all in one place so I can jump from one bike to the other for comparison. You lose something in the car ride to the next bike shop when trying to compare feel. Which of my LBS do you think will volunteer to let me take their bike to the other guy's parking lot?? :D

[pedalfaster]

Thanks for getting back to us.
I know what you mean about the test-riding thing. When I was hunting (and it is a hunt ) for a mountain bike, I kept a little notebook and wrote sizes and observations, components...everything...for comparison later. One day I just got a bike that "felt" right...and that was that.

If you are tall and evenly proprotioned you have a lot more choices! The stretched out thing might feel weird at first, but you'll probably be happy with it in the long run (from your description of yourself and your riding style).

Good luck with your hunt!