A knee "mechanics" question

[crazycanuck]

Hey,

Since i've been back on my bike, i've attempted to jump out of the saddle to go uphill but I am unable to move my leg down a bit from a bent position. I thought it might just be my road bike but I did an easy peasy mtn bike ride today & it's the same on that one.. (pcl ligament strikes back) All it does is cause pain if i even attempt it..

I've had enough..I do tons of different leg strengthening exercises (one legged squats, squats with my knees pointed out & my heels together, the reformer @ the pilates studio & the list goes on..) but the movement I want for going uphill isn't there and don't want to hear that it'll take another 4months..:mad: It's already been 5 1/2 months!!! :mad: I have other things to do..

Can someone point me in the direction of a knee mechanics site? Is there a small knee movement i need to understand? What about hamstring mechanics?

Hewppp!!! I'm going to explode into maple leafs soon..

[rocknrollgirl]

CC, hopefully one of the PT's will be on soon and can help, until then, I will grrrrhhhhh right along with you. Poor design on that joint, whomever did the designing!

[crazycanuck]

Thanks RNRG..I think we need to go back to the drawing board in terms of legs..:rolleyes:

[KnottedYet]

I'm wondering if you have some goobery-bit inside the knee joint that hasn't resorbed or dissolved or remodelled or something yet.

Sounds like you have all kinds of strength from all those one-legged squats and stuff, but it's the extension range that disappears after repeated limited range flex/ext of pedalling?

Do you want to try an experiment?

Take a "snapshot" of your knee: how it feels, how easily it bends and straightens, how it is to walk.

Then bend your knee by hugging it to your chest 10 times. (hands around your shin, hug) (like a gluteus stretch)

Do another "snapshot." Is the knee better, worse, or the same?

Then sit on the edge of a chair, put your heel on the ground, and push the knee straight with your hands on the lower thigh 10 times. (like a hamstring stretch)

Do another "snapshot." Is the knee better, worse, or the same?

[Starfish]

VERY curious to hear about this...

[Wahine]

I like Knott's idea. But I have a few other thoughts as well.

Where exactly in the pedal stroke are you feeling the pain? Example: starts at around 1 o'clock and lasts to 10. Since we're talking about your left leg your pedal rotation will be counter-clockwise (12, 11, 10....)

Are you able to keep your knee cap aligned over the second toe when you do your 1 legged squats and heel together squats? Can you use a plumb bob to check?

[crazycanuck]

Thanks guys!

I'll check it out when i get home from work tonight.

C

[crazycanuck]

Ok, i'm sitting here giving the first few Knot mentioned a shot & notice the following.

First off-tonight-walking, bending the knee sitting down are fine & i don't feel any pain. This is walking on a flat surface, not up the stairs as at work.

I tried the glute type stretch whilst lying on my back & then sitting in this computer chair. I feel tightness @ the bottom of the glute and then a pain accross the knee. When i bent my knee to loosen it out i felt quite a bit of creaking..I walked around the house & the leg feels like it normally does-sort of stable.


Then sit on the edge of a chair, put your heel on the ground, and push the knee straight with your hands on the lower thigh 10 times. (like a hamstring stretch) umm.:o I tried this one but i don't think i'm doing it right..

After doing all of those "snapshots"my knee region feels stiff.

I placed my bike on the trainer & the pain starts @ when i have my leg @ the 11:30 position. The pain is straight accross the knee & just too much for me to move it any further.

Not sure about the knee alignment question..

Would it be a good idea to visit the physio & take my bike with me???

[KnottedYet]

Well, I was hoping one of those directions with over-pressure (flexion or extension) would be a direction of preference for the knee, and taking the joint to end range in that direction would help make you move more easily and feel less pain afterward. (I was hoping you'd be obviously deranged, cuz those are easy to deal with)

Phooey.

[Wahine]

This sounds like patellar or patellar tendon pain based on where it occurs in the pedal stroke. Keep stretching your glutes and double check your alignment with your squats with PT. Yes to bringing the bike in to the PT to see what they think.

[crazycanuck]

Thanks ladies, I appreciate your help!

I'll make an appt with the physio. I'll have to ask the dude i saw (musculoskeletal physio) if his physio friend (who's the physio for the UK track cycling team & set my bike up) might be the best person to see.

I don't want to feel like a dork..

[crazycanuck]

I visited my physio dude yesterday evening & a couple of items came up.

First item is my right side is out of whack, esp my right hip. I obviously just started to move in a different way and didn't realize it. I don't think it was becuase walking etc was painful but rather it was easier to move?

Second-regarding the knee pain @ the front-I was asked if it was more pain or strength that was holding me back from pushing down from a bent knee. It's mainly painful to even try. He got me on the stationery bike & i managed to get my leg down & around once but it took all my strength!

He taped my knee & told me to see if it helps. If it does then he'll show me how to tape it up myself before a ride. In addition, i need to get my glute & hammies working. Some of the exercises i've been doing i can move to the wayside as the quads are super strong now.

The last thing is if all this doesn't work he mentioned they can give a cortisone shot but i'd rather not.

What's the guidline again about if it hurts, try & do it. If it hurts afterwards, don't do it type thingie..

Wahine-I stopped going to Acupuncture in early Jan, would it be beneficial to return?

THanks for your help.

[KnottedYet]

If it hurts more than a few minutes (max 30) after you do it, not so good.

[Wahine]

This is a very structural/alignment issue. You need to be working on those things first and foremost, that means PT exercises and pilates, but be aware that pilates does not work your glute max so it doesn't replace the PT exercises. Acupuncture may help manage the pain but isn't going to get you better much faster with this problem.

I'm going to try to find the link for guidelines I gave once for pain with activity. But in the meantime you should know that any sharp debilitating pain like you're describing is not good. Aching is a different story.

TBC...

[crazycanuck]

Thanks ladies!

I tried one get out of the saddle move & the pain in front of the knee isn't there today because my knee's taped. I'll just work on getting stronger in the saddle :D I think making cycling a struggle right now isn't what i have in mind..

THe folks @ the pilates studio have me doing glute exercises & they're almost exactly the same as the ones the physio gave me.

TBC indeed. I will keep an eye on things..

[rocknrollgirl]

I remember you posted this for me, I found it in the PT thread.


I'm going to post my guidelines here on the achy factor. I hope it doesn't just confuse people more.

General rule of thumb (there are always exceptions, especially if part of the treatment includes breaking up scar tissue):

Sharp pain is bad and activities that cause sharp pain during the activity should be avoided until discussed further with the PT

Muscle aching is OK and even good. I think most of you understand this.

A little aching in an injured joint, tendon, ligament is OK as long as it subsides within 2 hours of the activity and does not cause a change in function eg limping. If it lasts longer that 2 hours or causes a change in function, it may still be a good activity but requires some tweaking (time, intensity, positioning...)

Intense aching that last longer than a day is an indicator of an activity that you're not ready for and needs to be adjusted.

No aching in the injured tissue at all during an activity followed by aching later that day or the next day, typically means that the achig is coming from increased stress on the area from muscle imblances that are working against you either during the activity or as they tighten up afterward. That means closer attention to stretching, self myofascial release, yoga.

Phew. Hope that helps and doesn't confuse.
__________________

[crazycanuck]

Hey RNRG,

Thanks for posting that info.

I'm following the "Sharp pain is bad and activities that cause sharp pain during the activity should be avoided until discussed further with the PT..". Sitting in the saddle for all uphill jaunts it is for now! The physio dude wants me to keep an eye on this for the next month..I shall work on the exercises & keep my knee taped for a few more bike rides..

Straightening the hip will be key...