More cadance questions

[Barb]

I just went clipless last week. So now I am really paying attention to my pedaling. With a timer and me counting, I am comfortable between 83-86 rpm. I don't understand the gear ratio thingy. I'm using 2 gears easier than I normally ride when I spin. I have 9 gears in back. It's all Campy Mirage...can anyone sell me a ticket on the clue bus?

[sarahfixit]

I always like to train at a higher cadence, train for speed and get power as the saying goes. Everybody has an ideal cadence, the 'sweet spot' on thier throttle. Mine is around 75-85(relatively low) but the lighter you can load your legs the longer you can ride without soreness. In races I alway have better luck revving up to a higher cadence on climbs than trying to power out.
The idea of the gears is to do all you can to remain in your ideal rpm range(like a car does as well), thus being the most efficient. Periodically when you train, ramp it up to a gear or two higher than normal, you may be surprised at your improvements. After a while you will be able to sustain those pedal speeds in the higher gears. That means you have more power :cool:
Most of all, have fun.

[Dogmama]

I just went clipless last week.

Fantastic. Once you go clipless, you'll never go back.

If you really want to know how you're doing, invest in a cyclometer that has a cadence feature. When I ride, I always dial it into cadence.

High cadence (90-100) works your aerobic capacity and lower cadences work your legs. Beginners often use lower cadences and more seasoned riders will use higher - this is a generalization of course.

Fast twitch vs slow twitch muscles are important too. Some people have muscles that are better for pushing big loads - thus they do better at lower cadences whereas higher cadences toast their legs. And visa versa.

Just be careful that you aren't pushing against heavy gears in the beginning. That will wreck your knees - and knee problems are tough to get over. ;)

[Barb]

I know I am pushing relatively light gears right now when I spin. I guess my question is, am I supposed to eventually work up to keeping the same cadence with a heavier gear. I am not really competitive, I am just trying to occupy my mind and build some skills while I am forced to use my trainer. We just got 8 more inches of snow and it is 19 out right now :(. If it sticks around, I may be able to go xc skiing this weekend. Man do I need to be outside! :cool:

[Dogmama]

Eventually you will push bigger gears in a higher cadence because your leg muscles will get stronger. With your clipless pedals, be sure to spin in a circle, i.e., pull up & back as well as pushing forward & down. If you're on your trainer, try one-legged drills & you'll get the hang of it quickly.

[Barb]

Thanks
I have been doing some one leggers. I can really feel it in the back of my thighs! Right now in addition to uppping my cadance, I am trying to eliminate the dead spot I get at the top of my one legged stroke. I found that it lessens the more I concentrate on lifting my knee through the top as I push. Man who ever knew pedaling a bike could be so technical!!! It's still fun.

[MomOnBike]

OK, so how to learn to spin in circles if you don't have/want an indoor trainer? Ride with one leg on the street? Will that help? Will I crash & burn? Go back to a car? :eek:

I'm pulling on the up stroke, but still feel/hear a surge with each "step." This can't be efficient, and I'm all about efficiency.

[Barb]

One tip I read was to push across the top of your stroke and act like you are scraping gum off the bottom of your shoe at the bottom of your stroke. It also said to concetrate on one thing at a time (top or bottom). Eventually you should be able to put it all together for a smooth circle.

[slinkedog]

Also, make sure you keep your foot flat during the entire pedal stroke. The idea of scraping gum off the bottom of your shoe is a great visual for that! Thanks for that one, Barb!!!

[sarahfixit]

I found training on my touring bike to be real easy for one-legging. It has a rack, so I unclip the one leg and put the foot back on the rack so its not in the way. Sounds awkward but its a stretch and excersize at the same time :D
I like to vary the foot angle periodically. Sometimes droop the heels below the pedal, sometimes pedal "ballet" style with heels up. But level is the ideal to start with. The most effective stroke I have found has a degree of heel movement at the ends, it reduces some of the knee stress as it goes.

[CorsairMac]

Barb: Loved the visual of scrapping gum off your shoe. I've been working on pedalling in a circle but I was pulling up on the stroke by pulling up inside my shoe! I know I know......at least it was a start! This morning I rode with the gum scrapping picture in my head and WOW!!!! I took close to 2 mins off my time coming to work in a headwind no less! Course my legs are probably gonna yell at me tonight coz I used yet Another set of muscles!

So my question????? When standing in the pedals, toe down or foot flat?? I was pedalling toe down but today tried both ways since I was pedalling different anyway. I felt more power with toe down but that doesn't make it the most efficient! Any help is appreciated.

[MomOnBike]

I tried the wiping my feet thing yesterday, and, um, there was mixed success. While I managed to remember, there maybe was more power, but my legs felt like overcooked spagetti - made of lead. Not much there to work with. Shoulda tried earlier in the week when everything was singing.

I'll try it again.

As to riding one-footed. I'm sure it's a good idea, but I have no idea where to put the resting leg on my recumbent. No, I don't think I will post pics when I figure it out. Maybe put toeclips on the upright (historical accuracy and all...) and practice that way? Hmmmm.....

BTW, it wasn't gum I was scraping, but the sticky adobe mud I grew up with. You haven't lived until you've walked through adobe mud, built up about 6 inches of mud on your boots, then had one (and only one) of the boots shed the mud. I've lived. :rolleyes:

[Dogmama]

Standing whilst pedaling - always put your foot flat. Here's the reason: you get more power from your glute muscles - the muscles you engage with flat footed pedaling.

I also like to envision the circular motion coming from my hip. Keeps my pedal stroking smooth.

[SnappyPix]

Up until recently I've been a definite masher - thought that slogging in a high gear was good, lots of effort, lots of huffing and puffing, powering along - must be making me faster and stronger ... right?!

I've been reading the posts on cadence in the forum, and on the web, and decided to make a concerted effort to spin in a lower gear. But it felt all wrong - it's not that I couldn't get the hang of it, it's just that it didn't feel comfortable, my legs are happier pushing and grinding and mashing and slogging! But, being an obstinate beast, I persevered! I went on my usual circuit with my other half - and we're pretty fairly matched, same fitness and ability. I'm just recovering after a nasty cold, but absolutely flew! I was always under the impression that changing down would slow my speed, as there woudn't be as much power coming from the pedals as I pushed them down, but my speedo actually went up as I changed down to a lower gear - most of the effort was coming from my legs, rather than using the upper body to thrust the bike forward. My stroke has also improved as I'm now using the clips fully to pull up as well as pushing down, not just on hills, but on the flat too.
My poor sweetie could be heard wailing from behind as I motored along - and I didn't get any of the usual lower back pain I normally feel - probably caused by twisting the hips when honking in higher gears.
Now a complete convert - I'm not sure what my cadence rate is, as I haven't timed my rpms yet, but want to thank you all for your tips and advice - it's really helped this former masher! :D

[bounceswoosh]

Up until recently I've been a definite masher - thought that slogging in a high gear was good, lots of effort, lots of huffing and puffing, powering along - must be making me faster and stronger ... right?!

I've been reading the posts on cadence in the forum, and on the web, and decided to make a concerted effort to spin in a lower gear. But it felt all wrong - it's not that I couldn't get the hang of it, it's just that it didn't feel comfortable, my legs are happier pushing and grinding and mashing and slogging! But, being an obstinate beast, I persevered! I went on my usual circuit with my other half - and we're pretty fairly matched, same fitness and ability. I'm just recovering after a nasty cold, but absolutely flew! I was always under the impression that changing down would slow my speed, as there woudn't be as much power coming from the pedals as I pushed them down, but my speedo actually went up as I changed down to a lower gear - most of the effort was coming from my legs, rather than using the upper body to thrust the bike forward. My stroke has also improved as I'm now using the clips fully to pull up as well as pushing down, not just on hills, but on the flat too.
My poor sweetie could be heard wailing from behind as I motored along - and I didn't get any of the usual lower back pain I normally feel - probably caused by twisting the hips when honking in higher gears.
Now a complete convert - I'm not sure what my cadence rate is, as I haven't timed my rpms yet, but want to thank you all for your tips and advice - it's really helped this former masher! :D


Thanks for this report, SnappyPix .... I'm also an inveterate masher, and I know I'm supposed to move my feet faster in a lower gear, but as you said, it feels so awkward and wrong. I guess I'll just have to work through it.

[SnappyPix]

Monique

Bite the bullet and give it a go, it feels wrong - wrong, wrong, wrong (I felt like a little kid, trying to get the hang of gears, when they spin in the wrong gear way too fast! I'm sure it didn't look like that, but that's how it felt!). I found that gentle tweaking, going one, or sometimes, two lower than I normally would didn't make my speed drop (it increased, as I was able to accelerate/surge more rapidly when I wanted to). I'm still on a learning curve though, so probably not the best to give advice at this early stage, but I'm sure your body will probably thank you for it in the end!

[bounceswoosh]

Monique

Bite the bullet and give it a go, it feels wrong - wrong, wrong, wrong (I felt like a little kid, trying to get the hang of gears, when they spin in the wrong gear way too fast! I'm sure it didn't look like that, but that's how it felt!). I found that gentle tweaking, going one, or sometimes, two lower than I normally would didn't make my speed drop (it increased, as I was able to accelerate/surge more rapidly when I wanted to). I'm still on a learning curve though, so probably not the best to give advice at this early stage, but I'm sure your body will probably thank you for it in the end!

I'll have to try it. I haven't really been riding, but will start when the time changes and it might actually be light after I leave work.

Are you a roadie? I think part of the difficulty is that I play in the dirt, and the varying traction, obstacles, etc. make it hard to practice spinning consistently. (I don't have a roadbike and I really don't want one, to be honest, even though I know it would improve my mountain biking.)

[sarahfixit]

I have a roadie but I still like running the MTB on roads. In the winter I like the extra resistance to warm up with, and it allows pursuing rabbit trails as they come up :D

[miss claire]

the way i learned to spin was to build up a fixed wheel road bike.I found an old track frame and used some old gear i had lying around bought what i did not.The best thing about using an old track frame is a lot of them have holes to bolt brakes on to them.I use a 42x17 gear on mine which allows me to spin on the flat and push a bigger gear than i used to on the hills so you get the best of both worlds.I understand that some people do not want to buy another bike or spend time geting used to riding a fixed wheel,trust me it is a lot different to riding with a freewheel,but i would recommend doing if you want too get the best from your riding

[LBTC]

I also like to envision the circular motion coming from my hip. Keeps my pedal stroking smooth.

:D That is fantastic!! I can't wait to try this on my next ride!! Thank you for the insight, dogmama!

I often forget to pedal in circles, and I am always smoother and faster and "lighter" when I do. :p

I am also a masher, and really have trouble keeping the spin fast - but I sure can tell when I have...my legs don't feel tired after a 2 hour ride! wahoo!!! and there's very little recovery time even at the top of a hill!

my season is just starting, so I'm totally focussing on rpm, when I remember (most of the time). currently working on sets at 100 rpm or more, so that 90+ will be easier. This is, of course, while I'm road training. the whole goal of road riding is to train to be faster on my mountain bike.

I've ordered a new computer as mine uses virtual cadence so it has zero accuracy if I'm lazily pedalling while coasting down a hill....I need better than that! I should have it next week. can't wait!!

namaste,
~T~

[RoadRaven]

I am working on cadence too... very exhausting

I have a false flat and my training partner, who is also my coach, has designed a spinning training session for me on the road.

I ride 500metres up a false flat in one of the two lowest gears at a cadence of 90, then turn, and relax back and then turn and repeat it...

(My lowest gears/speed for a cadence of 90...
18.5km in my 25/39
or
20.1km in my 23/39)

I come home with sore glutes and feeling absolutely shagged...

Here is a cadence calculator link... my apologies if it has been offered somewhere else, I'm still new here and haven't read everything yet...


http://www.endurancecoach.com/Cycling_Gear_Calculator.htm

[spazzdog]

I'm with you on the fixie miss claire.

I just had an estimate done to convert my old TREK 1000 to a fixie to build cadence and hill strength. I'll probably do it later in the season.

spazz

[petals]

Help!! I mash, but love a nice comfortable spin! I'm trying to increase speed on the trainer by reducing gears. My legs are happier. :) Now I'm trying to understand the circle :confused: and scraping gum off of my shoe?

[slinkedog]

Petals... keep your foot as flat as possible during the entire pedal stroke... at the bottom of your stroke, it's kind of like a sensation of scraping your foot backward. You'll be engaging your hamstrings to pull your leg up the back of the stroke instead of just pushing down on the front of the stroke. At the top of the stroke, some people have suggested thinking of moving your foot straight acroos the top instead of making a round motion at the top. I'm still trying to get the feel of that one, but it does seem to help.

Hope this helps a little!