Even Police can be crazy drivers

[coyote]

Check out this blog and the police report link about how a sheriffs deputy tried to pull over a large, fast moving group of cyclists.

http://www.tucsonbikelawyer.com/2008/03/shootout-riders-will-be-attending.html

This is causing a lot of controversy in Tucson right now.

Story run by a local newspaper:
http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/ss/local/79232.php

[jobob]

Actually, the article you posted discusses police filming bone-headed moves by cyclists.

Running red lights, crossing yellow lines, defecating on people's property :eek:

I see that kind of behavior a lot in my own neck of the woods (except for the latter - ewww). Negligent cyclists are our own worst enemies, imho.

[Grog]

It seems like the deputy pulling his car in the middle of the road thinking that the cyclist will have plenty of time to stop - 100 yards away from them - is a typical case of automobilists misunderstanding cycling physics:

car drivers underestimate cyclists' speed
and
car drivers overestimate cyclists' capacity to slow down/stop.

This is made much worse by the fact that the cyclists were a whole peloton, probably going very fast too.

Thankfully the cyclists seem to have been experienced for the most part - this was a racing event, even if not an official one - and dealt with the crash pretty well under the circumstances.

Based on the information at hand, there's no doubt in my mind that the deputy made a mistake. I am tempted to think that the mistake was induced more by his cluelessness about cycling than by his desire to hurt anyone. This could easily have turned out the same way as the stupid accident that took down the whole Australian women's cycling team and killed their leader last year in Germany. They were all lucky to escape with nothing worse than a dislocated shoulder and some road rash.

This being said...

YES, cyclists have right,
but NO they do not have the right to spontaneously race on the open road any more than automobilists do. Racing on a closed course is one thing. That event is definitely something else... Anyone knows more about that Arizona thing?

[mimitabby]

good point, Grog. In bicycling just like in driving a car, if you are going too fast to stop safely you're going too fast.

If they had a set up route with support, that might have been okay.
But what if some poor slob's car stalled? would they be called crazy or evil?
what the cop did was not the safest of things that he could have done, but I agree, the cyclists were going too fast for the conditions.

[Eden]

good point, Grog. In bicycling just like in driving a car, if you are going too fast to stop safely you're going too fast.


There's a difference between going too fast and having someone intentionally swerve in front of you and slam on the brakes. The group may not have been going too fast to stop for the conditions that were in front of them, until the officer did what he did. I didn't see the entire incident report, but it certainly sounds like the officer did something spectacularly stupid that lead to an accident that should not have happened. If there had been another vehicle in front of them (that could stall etc) the cyclists more than likely would have been prepared for it - they were not prepared to be passed and then for the passer to suddenly stop.

I don't like your argument that they must have been going too fast, because I've seen it used too many times to justify a motorist killing a cyclist. When Suzanne Scaringi died last year a lot of people said the same thing about her. She had a car turn in front of her as she was descending a hill. Well, if she couldn't stop she shouldn't have been going so fast, she was at fault because she was going too fast for the conditons... YES people said that! NO - the motorist who turned in front of her was at fault. Cyclists should not always be taking the blame for the boneheaded manouvers of others.

[Grog]

I think I might have been unclear as my point is closer to Eden's. But I also think there might have been boneheads on both sides of this accident.

I don't say that the cyclists were going too fast.

I say that it's not a good idea - and it's even an illegal one - to organize and/or partake in a road race without the proper conditions, i.e. closed or partially closed roads, signs, traffic control, etc. It's illegal for cars and it most likely is for bikes as well. I wish someone from Arizona could explain, but it seems like the Shootout "group bike rides" are actually race-style, very-fast peloton riding not quite unlike the event that cost a young man his life in an urban setting recently. We're not talking about a disciplined-double-paceline ride.

http://www.ride-strong.com/shootout-group-bike-ride-commentary-for-3808-tucson-az/

I have read the whole report and my understanding - but I am not 100% sure - is NOT that the police car passed the peloton and then stopped in front of them. I think he might have been coming from the other direction and stopped in their way, facing the peloton. I might be mistaken. The roads mentioned are not familiar to me at all, obviously, so I got a little lost.

The reckless behaviour is not so much speed-related but peloton-related.

[Eden]

Yeah - its sounds like the police officer pulled into their lane head on! - OK that was even more stupid... no matter what the cyclists were doing that was uncalled for and I'm sure as you pointed out, done out of a great deal ignorance of the stopping distance of a fast moving bicycle.

Since I'm unfamiliar with the particular ride and group I can't say whether or not those particular riders are disciplined or not, or whether or not they obey traffic laws... but the ride really does not sound like an alley cat race.... those are underground races with actual prizes and part of those races (whether the participants want to admit it or not...) is the use and abuse of traffic to get where you are going as quickly as possible. Hitching a ride by grabbing a car or bus is OK.. Fast group rides are not the same, even if some people do put on some speed and sprint for the city limits signs.

I've participated in large informal group rides within the racing community here (there's even one at Thanksgiving that we pass around a waterbottle and raise money for charity) and in tons of team rides. Yeah the speeds can pick up, but that doesn't mean that we can't be doing it and riding legally.

[csr1210]

The deputy's actions definitely seem pretty stupid.

The thing that was mentioned in the police report that people seem most hacked off about was that the cyclists were allegedly riding 3 and 4 abreast, and doing this as a regular thing. Now, that definitely doesn't justify causing cyclists to wreck, but I CAN see how it would aggravate drivers in the community if it really was happening like that every week.

If the police report is true, it seems like a lot of people were pulling dumb stunts that day.:(