Learning more about fitting bikes?

[Becky]

Can anyone suggest some information sources or classes about bike fitting?

I'm happy with how I fit on my bikes, and much of what I do know was learned through correcting my own fit issues over time. But now I'm working at a bike shop part time, and want to become more skilled and knowledgeable in order to better serve my customers. Especially the women.

The guys I work with mean well and provide good service overall, but aren't accustomed to thinking about fit from a women's perspective. (One of them was shocked to learn that I ride a ~49cm frame, even though I'm 5'5". *grins*)

Thanks in advance for your help :)

Becky

[bouncybouncy]

been doing alot of research on fitting (handlebar width)...here are some links you may or may not find helpful:


http://www.jacksbikes.com/fit%20kit.html


http://www.roadbikerider.com/ap_excerpt.htm

http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/index.php/t-45002.html

http://reviews.ebay.com/BIKE-FITTING-HOW-TO-SET-UP-YOUR-ROAD-BIKE-FOR-YOU_W0QQugidZ10000000001647333?ssPageName=BUYGD:CAT:-1:LISTINGS:6


http://www.bicycling.com/article/1,6610,s1-5-28-1056-1,00.html


http://www.bikecircle.com/forums/tech-issues/45744-handlebar-width-for-new-road-bike.html


http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/fitting.htm


http://www.nettally.com/palmk/BikeFit.html

[Harley]

There are several really good videos on YouTube. Search Bicycle Fitting.
This one from the Boulder Center for Sports Medicine is very good...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kgpkZfjhmc

Also, there is another one given by John Howard in 5 parts, which really gets technical. Sorry I don't have a link.

Colorado Cyclist has a great fit article on their website. These guys know road bikes.
http://www.coloradocyclist.com/bikefit/

[KnottedYet]

I took the 2 day class taught by Michael Sylvester (he set up the Serrotta fitting program, too.) www.bicyclefittingservices.com

Also love love love Andy Pruitt's Complete Medical Guide for Cyclists.

I do the bike fit assessments for my physical therapy clinic, and I'm finding women who've been "fitted" for their bikes (and PAID for it!) whose bikes are set up for a man of their general measurements, rather than for the way their own body is on the bike. (women's bodies really are very different on a bike than a man's of the same height, and male fitters don't seem to get that) I'd be ecstatic to have a woman fitter in a bike shop to send my female patients to for bike adjustments!

[Harley]

You are right Becky and KnottedYet. My local bike shop tried to put me on a 54cm. He insisted, my stand over was right, but when I got on the trainer we both knew immediately it was too long a stretch. My 32" inseam/5'7", body is short... as are most women. I ended up with a 50cm, and we still need to shorten the stem.
Top tubes on most brands are long/made for men; bars too wide/made for men, stems too long.
I have never worked with a Ladies specific bike shop, but would love to someday.
Becky, you will do well.;)

[Starfish]

Also, there is another one given by John Howard in 5 parts, which really gets technical. Sorry I don't have a link.


SR500 posted this link somewhere on TE. A search of his posts will turn up the link. The videos were quite interesting.

[alpinerabbit]

[QUOTE=Harley;295704]You are right Becky and KnottedYet. My local bike shop tried to put me on a 54cm. He insisted, my stand over was right..../QUOTE]

Yep, my bike guru (in surprise) said the same thing yesterday: you know, you’ve got really long legs but your torso is so short.

duh. I think most guys don't ever think of it.

[melissam]

I took the 2 day class taught by Michael Sylvester (he set up the Serrotta fitting program, too.) www.bicyclefittingservices.com

Also love love love Andy Pruitt's Complete Medical Guide for Cyclists.

I do the bike fit assessments for my physical therapy clinic, and I'm finding women who've been "fitted" for their bikes (and PAID for it!) whose bikes are set up for a man of their general measurements, rather than for the way their own body is on the bike. (women's bodies really are very different on a bike than a man's of the same height, and male fitters don't seem to get that) I'd be ecstatic to have a woman fitter in a bike shop to send my female patients to for bike adjustments!

Hi Knot,

I'm confused about what you mean by fitting women's bodies vs. fitting men's bodies on a bike.

I realize that women's bodies are different than men's. (Yes, I had health ed in elementary school. ;)) Seriously, women tend to have longer legs vs. torso compared to men, women's femurs tend to be proportionally longer than men's. Generally, if you were fitting a woman and man of the same height, the woman would need a bike with a shorter top tube. Because a woman's femurs are longer, they would generally need a bike with the seat tube angled back further or some other accommodation for this in the frame geometry.

But aren't most fitting techniques the same for women as for men? Or are there differences that make the typical methods to calculate handlebar reach and saddle placement invalid when fitting women?

-- Melissa (who should be riding on the indoor trainer right now)

[bike4ever]

You should measure and fit both men and women the same. You are not necessarily going to use the same frame, saddles, crank arm length, stems or handlebars. The actually measuring should be the same. If you follow a fit program (i.e. Serotta or Bike Fit), then you will just be fitting the bike to the individual.

Please keep in mind, everyone is different. Men can have long legs with short torsos just like many women. I ride a men's 49 Lemond. I have short legs with a long torso. Everyone is different.

[KnottedYet]

The problem I'm running into is fitters (at least, shop employees who are calling themselves fitters, whether they had training or not, I don't know) who are looking at distance from saddle to pedal, without looking at knee-over-pedal-spindle. They eyeball the seat height (placing it up about like they would for a man) check that the woman can touch her heel to the pedal at the bottom of the stroke, but don't look at what happens at the forward pedal position. On a bike, you are essentially doing single-leg squats when the pedal is at it's forward most position. And, just like in a squat, you don't want your knee out front beyond the forward-most weightbearing portion of your foot (generally the ball of the foot) (when you do a squat correctly, your hips go back farther than your knees go forward, but most of us in the "West" have tightened as adults such that beyond a certain point our heels come up and our knees flop out forward) (folks from Appalachia used to be an exception, traditionally they squat to sit on their heels like folks in other parts of the world, and the difference that makes in the articular surfaces of the femur and tibia were enough to help identify unknown soldiers' bodies in WW2.)

So, a woman with a 32 inch inseam plunked onto a bike with a saddle positioned for a man with a 32 inch inseam will have the correct knee angle at the bottom of the stroke (or 2 cm of heel drop, or graze the heel at the pedal, whatever measuring trick you want to use) but her knee-to-pedal-spindle relationship at the forward position will be way off due to the length of the femur vs tibia. (her knee will overhang the pedal spindle and throw her whole body off as it tries to compensate for the sheer stress at the knee and the loss of power in what should be the power section of the stroke)

The secret is really that forward pedal position and the knee-over-pedal-spindle relationship. But if someone is used to fitting men and doesn't use KOPS, he will struggle mightily trying to fit a woman and her longer femur to tibia ratio. It will "look" right, by his knee flexion at lowest pedal position measurements, but something will still be off and all his other adjustments will not help.

Everyone, go out to your bike and have a buddy hold a string with a weight at the end at the bump on the shin just below your kneecap (or on your kneecap if you have trouble finding the bump). Backpedal until your foot and pedal are in the forward most position. The string should cross the crank 0-3 cm behind the pedal spindle. (if your bike has geometry for fast stuff like tris or TT, the string is likely to cross right at the pedal spindle)

Edit: The women who get fitted incorrectly are the ones who end up injured and come to me. So I'm only seeing the ones who were fitted incorrectly. And the error I'm seeing is fitters who only look at knee angle at bottom of pedal stroke when determining saddle position. They put the fore-aft position where they are used to it being for a man, and don't touch fore-aft again after that.