running form ?

[Jo-n-NY]

First just a running form question. How do you plant your feet when you run. When I am on the treadmill I plant the ball of my foot. That is what feels natural to do. If I try to run outside, my heel is what goes done first. The book I am reading says to go down with the mid-foot. Working near the Westside Hwy bike/jog/walk path in Mahatten I am notice runners mostly going down on their heel. I was just wondering if there is a correct way.

Although I take lunch walks on the path, I am thinking of beginning my run/walk program during lunch 3 days a week. I keep cross trainer sneakers here at work for my walks, but I think I now should probably bring in fitness clothes. I probably have a few months before the lunch hour will be too hot to run. This will leave me time to take after work bike rides which I hope to begin at some point this month. I was wondering how I was going to juggle beginning a running program that would not interfer with my outdoor rides once the weather breaks for that. (to my satisfaction anyway :)

Sorry, my second paragraph is me thinking out loud but any input on my idea is welcome. hmmmm another thought, I guess I should get another pair of running sneakers instead of using the cross trainers for this.

~ JoAnn

[KSH]

Well, there are two forms for running.

The "older" form is landing on your heel, rolling to the ball of your foot and pushing off there.

The "newer" form is you land mid-foot and push off from there. I'm sure the ball of the foot is fine too, but a coach of some sort might argue this.

The idea of why you do not land on your heel is this... it's like you are putting the breaks on when you heel hits the ground. BAM! Hit the ground with the heel... then roll off. And when you think about it, it makes sense.

The idea of landing mid-foot is that you are not putting on the breaks... and you focus on high cadence to speed up... not stretching out your legs to speed up. This is how we all learn to run though... to speed up you stretch out your stride. The "new" form says this is not a good.

I would NOT watch other people run to learn how to run. Most people just go run and don't think twice about what they are doing or their form.

I went to a running coach for 6 months to learn how to run. To change my form from a heel strike to a mid-foot plant.

As for your shoes, get shoes that are made for you to run in. This will prevent injury from occurring. Go to a store that specializes in running and running shoes and have them help you pick a shoe that works for your stride.

Good luck and keep at it!

[Jo-n-NY]

Thank you so much KSH. You make perfect sense, not that I would think otherwise given your experience.

I bought a pair of running shoes for the treadmill which I have not used all week because of busy evenings. I did get them in a running store and they were great and very knowledgable. Looks like I will go this weekend to get a 2nd pair to keep here at work.

At least next week I can begin the program and not have to worry about missing days because of after work things to do :)

~ JoAnn

[Wahine]

The single most important thing about running form in terms of efficiency is where your foot strikes the ground relative to your body. Heel strikers tend to stride out in front too far and actually cause a loss in momentum. Mid foot strikers tend to land with their foor under their hip and maintain momentum throught the stride. There are people that heel strike that still land with their foot under their pelvis and are very efficient this way, but they are the exception to the rule. As for running on the treadmill, if you're running closer to the front or using even a slight incline there will be a tendency to land more towards the fore foot.

As for shoes. Get out of those cross trainers!! Running in cross trainers for anything other than short treadmill runs is asking for a tendinitis in your lower leg because the shoe is too stiff to allow for the normal torsion through the foot that occurs with running. That means your foot is constantly working against the shoe. The other thing is that you need to be properly fit. Fit is the one most important thing in biomechanical efficiency. More so than getting a shoe for a pronator or supinator. If you're not comfy, you change your natural stride and any other biomechanical advantage you get from the shoe goes out the window.

Hope that helps.

[Jo-n-NY]

Thank you Wahine, this makes very good sense. In fact I bet outdoors I have the tendance to take too large of a stride just because of the surroundings being larger. I will be more conscience of this when I start which will not be until next week for my new lunch routine since I will be getting sneakers over the weekend and needless to say, will wait until then. :)

Wow, this section is great for a newbie runner. It is as good as cycling above for the newbie cyclist. I have to consider TE a very "well rounded forum". ;)

~ JoAnn

[Wahine]

There's a really great drill for training your body to land with the foot under the pelvis and it's fun. SKIPPING!! After you warm up for 5 min, skip for 30 seconds, concentrate on landing with your foot under your pelvis and lifting the opposite knee quite high with that foot almost tucked up to your sit bones. The skipping strides should be very short and compact forward to bakc. After skipping for 30 sec, jog for 2 min, repeat until you've got 5 to 10 min left in your workout and then finish off with a cool down of light jogging. this is best done on a track or in a grassy field.

[VeloVT]

I'm totally onboard with the midfoot-striking, not overstriding, increasing speed by increasing cadence thing (Jo, you might want to pick up a copy of Chi Running). Just to be clear though, to increase your speed beyond a certain point, you will have to increase BOTH cadence and stride length -- this is because you can't endlessly increase your cadence, and so you will have to pick up the difference by playing with the other limiting factor to speed... However, it's possible to increase stride length without overstriding by increasing forward lean and increasing the stride "out behind you" rather than by throwing your footstrike way out in front.

[teigyr]

And Wahine, I love the idea of skipping because I was wondering how to change where my footstrike is. I heelstrike and I know I overstride. It doesn't feel like it but I've seen pictures and I do.

So while we're on the subject, what else helps with either running or running stride? Are weights beneficial? What types of stretching is best?

Jo-in-NY, this was a fantastic topic.

[alpinerabbit]

In skipping, how do you prevent landing very hard - something my shins seem to dislike currently?

[Wahine]

...to increase your speed beyond a certain point, you will have to increase BOTH cadence and stride length -- this is because you can't endlessly increase your cadence, and so you will have to pick up the difference by playing with the other limiting factor to speed...

In fact, in Chi Running, once you find your sweet spot/cadence, you should learn to maintain it at all speeds. Even slow running. The change really does come from pushing out the back and swinging the leg through faster with more hip and knee flexion. Elite runners have a cadence of around 88 to 92.


So while we're on the subject, what else helps with either running or running stride? Are weights beneficial? What types of stretching is best?

The best type of warm-up includes dynamic activity that helps to stretch slightly while working on your own personal running faults. If you're a heel striker, marching is good with a focus on high knees and appropriate foot strike, then moving to skipping, then moving to bounding skipping where the focus is the slight forward lean of the body with the push coming out the back. Sustained stretches of tight muscles AFTER running (not before) is also helpful. Strengthening exercises are useful but that's getting really specific and what I would ask one athlete to do I may not ask of another, so I'm ot going there. If you're asking if using weight vests during running is helpful, I personally think it's rediculous.


In skipping, how do you prevent landing very hard - something my shins seem to dislike currently?

Start by just doing fast heel lifts with both feet on the ground. If that doesn't hurt, do it with one leg. If that doesn't hurt you can move to small skipping. The key to any of these is to work on rhythm, starting with slower movement and increasing quickness and foot position under the pelvis. It helps a lot to do it on a softer surface like grass.

[OakLeaf]

As a totally non-serious runner but a formerly serious cyclist, I wasn't completely surprised when I first timed my natural running cadence and found that it's right at 90-95. A little higher than Chi Running recommends, but it's what my legs were used to from cycling. You may find the same.

Wahine, what type of warmup would you recommend for a forefoot striker?

[Wahine]

Regardless of what type of foot strike you have a dynamic warm up that focuses on rhythmic motion through range is a very good idea. Best done on a flat grassy area. You can do the following things for about 50 to 100 feet each:

Heel walk with knee locked, ball of foot is lifted and curl toes if you can
Toe walk with knees locked
Straight march - lift the knee high and grab the shin gently pulling to chest, try to land on the foot the way you would running and also try to push off the toe in the same way.
Leg cradle march - as above except that you rotate the foot toward the opposite hip turning the thigh and knee outward
Quad pull - walk like the march but instead of pulling the leg to the front you grab onto the ankle and do a motion akin to a quad stretch.
Walking lunges
Skipping - first small and quick then bounding forwards
Sideways running - aka Karaoke

All together this takes about 5 minutes.

Please note that this is not my stuff, I got this from the running course I took with Matt Walsh. I just wanted to give credit where credit was due.

[rocknrollgirl]

I took a running course in November, and they too emphasized smaller strides with faster turnover. They said if you watch the Kenyans run, they are really taking very small strides with either fast or faster turnover. They told us to keep our stride small regardless of whether we were running easy or hard.

[KnottedYet]

I love the Chi Running book. Made a huge difference in my running ability (I'm a big long overstrider) and pretty much got rid of my running pain.

[emily_in_nc]

I bought Chi Running but have not read it yet. I tend to have a short stride, high cadence (maybe from being a cyclist who spins rather than mashes -- or maybe just from being a slow, shuffling new runner!), and I think I do more of a mid-foot strike than a heel strike, though I haven't had a knowledgeable runner watch me, so I couldn't say for sure. On the treadmill I do use 1% incline and find myself running on the front, so if that's an indication, I don't think I'm a heel striker. I might be more so outside, though, with real hills.

One thing I need to do soon is go to a running store and be fitted for shoes. I bought my current running shoes, New Balance 754s, at REI because they were on sale and seemed to fit well (I learned from having black toenail with a previous pair of shoes that I needed to size up a half-size over my street shoes), but I have no idea what would really be the "best" shoes for me. I did have a quickie analysis at a fitness fair at work, and the gentleman (who works at a running shoe shop) said I overpronated with my left foot only, so I've been using a wrap-around arch support on that foot only when I run, and it feels great -- I never even notice it. But really, I need to get new shoes. Just haven't had time, with working overtime, getting ready for a new puppy, and going to the coast this weekend.

JoAnn -- great question, thanks for bringing it up! By the way, I currently only run three times a week and have still been able to improve a lot. I really think at my age (47 next month), it is best for my body to have at least one not-running day between each running day. So I run twice during the week and once on weekends, and lift 2x a week on two of the other days. Cycling will start up very soon now, hopefully 2x a week. Cross-cross training: good; running in cross-training shoes: bad. :cool:

Emily

[Jo-n-NY]

Emily, you will notice such a difference by getting fit for sneakers at a running store. I did that when we got the treadmill in January. Up until now, I was mainly fitness walking and the proper sneakers made such a difference even with that.

Since I have my x-trainer sneakers here at work already, I could have began the program, but I will wait until next week so I can begin on the right foot, literally, with the correct sneaker. :) Since I commute from Long Island to Manhattan, bringing my running sneakers back and forth is a real pain.

My lunch runs will leave me free so I can bike ride outdoors after work now that we have more sun (if the weather will cooporate). I plan on a metric century and century ride in May and June so I really need to to get some road miles in before these rides.

LOL, awe talking about age, I am 52, but I like to think they are only numbers. My girlfriend has to keep bringing me down a few notches as I am always looking at what others do and accomplish and she reminds me that they are 20 or 30 years younger than us. oh well.

~ JoAnn

[teigyr]

Being fit for shoes makes a HUGE difference. I used to go to outlet stores or shop sales and would think "Avia makes a decent shoe, I think...." and I'd get the cute ones with pretty colors. When I was fit, it turns out I should wear mens running shoes because they're wider. Turns out after I was fit, I no longer got blisters all the time :o

I don't know about the stores where you are but there are some here that let you take the shoes out for a run as you test them. The store also has treadmills and the one I go to has a 60 day return policy.

I still look at the shoes with the pretty colors and plaintively ask if perhaps a womans shoe would fit me. I am always told no. But no blisters or pain IS a good thing!

Jo, it sounds like you have a great job.

Emily, I also have ChiRunning but haven't read it. I have trouble with translating what I read to reality (ie I think I'm doing something and I'm not, or I think I'm not doing something and I am) so maybe this is something better done in a class or with a partner. At least for me.

[horsemom]

I am glad someone else can't always read and relate!! I always want my husband to read the directions and then tell me how it works!

I believe I am an overstrider - I tend to be a power bike pedaler also. My goal for this season is to shorten up and 'spin' whether I am afoot or astride! I have been working on that in spin class all winter and on the treadmill.

Interesting topic!!

BTW, I was fitted for running shoes by an ultramarathoner who knows his sport. He sold me shoes that were *TWO* sizes bigger than what I had always worn. They felt great, but looked like clown shoes. When I ordered new ones, I got them only one size bigger than my street shoes, and sure enough, I have a black second toe nail. Now I have to paint one there for the summer when I wear toe polish!! Vanity gets you every time!! I guess it is clown feet for me!!

Laura

[Jo-n-NY]

I would not have chosen the sneaker I got either. They brought out 3 and put two different ones on at a time to walk in and weed out. I had to try all my best to think of what felt best and not what looked best.

I ended up with a grey and navy New Balance with pink trim and wavy shoelaces. At first I thought they were completely ugly. However, these just felt really good. As it turns out a portion of the proceeds go to Breast Cancer and the shoe laces do not untie. If they tell me they will be fine for outdoor use I will get a 2nd pair.

~ JoAnn

[OakLeaf]

I have trouble with translating what I read to reality (ie I think I'm doing something and I'm not, or I think I'm not doing something and I am) so maybe this is something better done in a class or with a partner.

I'm the same way! Or I should say, I don't even get as far as thinking I'm doing something, because it can take me hours to figure out what it is they want me to do and I tend to give up after a couple of pages. :rolleyes:

I actually did the one-day workshop with Danny, but the website shows four Chi Running instructors in Seattle and one in Kirkland, WA: http://www.chirunning.com/shop/instructors.php

[teigyr]

I've looked at the ChiRunning workshops. Unfortunately, my inability to learn things on my own can get expensive. Last year our budget dealt with "I have to take swim classes" and "I need a wetsuit" and "I need new running shoes and orthotics..." and let's not forget the various and assorted registration fees :eek:

I'm keeping it all in the back of my mind though. DH is a good and patient man so perhaps one of these days...we'd have SO much more money if I wasn't oblivious.

I'm pretty happy though because I am keeping the ChiRunning concepts in the back of my mind and am using what I'm learning here. The best exercise was skipping, that really lets me know where my foot should be. I did it again today and it was the most effortless 6 miles I've run ever. It gives me hope :D

[jesvetmed]

Teigyr: You made me laugh! My hubby has also dealt with the lack of savings due to me wanting to try new things... this year will be the purchase of the wetsuit and yet more riding shorts, a tri outfit (?), and the numerous shoe purchases. The biggee was of course, the road bike two summers ago, then the new swimming stuff, the gym membership, the weekend trip to do the first Tri in Harrison Hot Springs, etc... it just goes on and on! It would be SO much cheaper to sit on the couch and eat... BON BONS! Or girl scout cookies! But where is the fun in that? OK.. there is a LITTLE fun. :p

Anyway, just wanted to say I am understanding where you are coming from! I'm glad the running is feeling better. I hope mine stays that way, also.

Jes

[teigyr]

Teigyr: a tri outfit (?)
Jes

Oh yes! I have those! And I have a few of the Ones That Didn't Work. And with the swimsuits...I had to have more than one. It's for practice after all. And the half-marathon in May? It's in Calif...

You're right re the Bon Bons but then we'd need new clothes because we wouldn't fit in the ones we own. So I guess it all evens out.

I guess I never viewed running as having a particular learning curve.

It's all about the adventure :D